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Author Topic: Bullying as a substitute for Argument  (Read 35929 times)

jjj

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #120 on: April 03, 2015, 06:56:17 pm »

I'm glad you liked my 'gritty' remark.
A pearl :)
I'm glad you liked my 'gritty' remark.   ;)
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Theodoros

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #121 on: April 03, 2015, 06:58:05 pm »

If you want to learn photography, however...

That phrase can only be used by one that masters and understands the art...  ;)

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Theodoros

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #122 on: April 03, 2015, 07:26:38 pm »

For a Socratic method to be successful, a "Socrates" must have an established authority. Most of those frequently engaging in it here don't. That's what makes it annoying.

Socrates never had an "established authority"... He only proposed the method of irony for whenever a "smart ass" was developing "bold theories" as to expose the bold of it... His best student, Platon, is considered the greatest philosopher amongst all, just because he propagated that irony was the only way to expose corruption and thus the base of democracy to be established....  ;)

I guess you only have to reveal your (faulty) fundamentals and sources on "must have" (which you state above - you have to support it otherwise it's bold) and your knowledge about Socrate's (teaching) theory now...  ;D
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dwswager

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #123 on: April 03, 2015, 08:03:23 pm »

That corollary misses the most important part of the lesson:
Of those who can do, some are excellent teachers and others are not.  The latter fail for various reasons, technical competence notwithstanding.   :)

What I am getting at is that the best in most fields have it in them.  That does not strive to learn all they can about the technical details of their craft, but that isn't what makes them great.
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AreBee

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #124 on: April 04, 2015, 04:49:02 am »

Some people have a natural ability to teach. Some people do not.

The ability to teach is independent from knowledge of a topic.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 04:51:04 am by AreBee »
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mouse

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #125 on: April 04, 2015, 05:55:07 am »

The ability to teach is independent from knowledge of a topic.

"independent from"  ::)
That's a bit of a stretch.
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shadowblade

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #126 on: April 04, 2015, 06:19:59 am »

What I am getting at is that the best in most fields have it in them.  That does not strive to learn all they can about the technical details of their craft, but that isn't what makes them great.

'Greatness' is an entirely subjective concept that has little to do with actual competence and everything to do with salesmanship. Competence may help with this, but is hardly the only way.

For instance, Giorgio Armani is a mediocre designer but an excellent salesman, who has built up 'greatness' around his own name. Kim Il Sung/Jong Il/Il Sun are renowned as 'great' in their own country (largely through propaganda, which is a form of salesmanship), but that also has little to do with competence.

If you want to justify someone's 'greatness' to a sceptical audience, don't namedrop - that doesn't impress anyone who's not already in the loop and part of the 'in-group'. List their achievements.
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eronald

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #127 on: April 04, 2015, 07:05:08 am »

I'm glad you liked my 'gritty' remark. I'm glad you liked my 'gritty' remark.   ;)

Yeah, it kind of rolled out of your ... mouth ;)
I certainly agree skill of teaching, is underrated. A good teacher in a specialty will often start an academic "school".
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 07:09:01 am by eronald »
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AreBee

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #128 on: April 04, 2015, 07:08:20 am »

mouse,

Quote
"independent from"  ::) That's a bit of a stretch.

Why?
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mouse

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #129 on: April 04, 2015, 04:07:01 pm »

@AreBee

You wrote:

The ability to teach is independent from knowledge of a topic.

I replied:
Quote
"independent from"   ::) That's a bit of a stretch.

And you ask me why?  Well, I tend to interpret these remarks literally even though I know many tend to employ hyperbole to make their point.  So tell me; do you really believe that knowledge of a topic has no bearing on one's ability to teach that topic?
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AreBee

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #130 on: April 04, 2015, 04:37:17 pm »

mouse,

Quote
I tend to interpret these remarks literally even though I know many tend to employ hyperbole to make their point.

You have not answered my question.

Quote
...tell me; do you really believe that knowledge of a topic has no bearing on one's ability to teach that topic?

I consider that one should have knowledge of a subject if one is teaching it, but I consider ability to teach to be a personal quality, hence my earlier comment re independence.
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mouse

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #131 on: April 04, 2015, 05:56:41 pm »

mouse,

You have not answered my question.

I consider that one should have knowledge of a subject if one is teaching it, but I consider ability to teach to be a personal quality, hence my earlier comment re independence.

I believe we are parsing each others replies a bit too stringently.  

If you mean that "ablity to teach" is a skill or quality which can (should?) be evaluated separately from "knowledge of a subject", then I think we are in agreement.  However, in regard to a given subject, both are required to make an effective teacher.  So I still think that "independent" is a bit of a stretch.  :) :)

Independent (British Dictionary): not dependent on anything else for function, validity, etc.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 06:03:24 pm by mouse »
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LKaven

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #132 on: April 04, 2015, 06:28:22 pm »

Intransitive "teach" versus transitive use "teach <a subject>" here.  If you can't teach (intransitive) you can't teach <anything> (transitive).

Very often in the academy, you can neither do nor teach, even if you know how to do both!

spidermike

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #133 on: April 05, 2015, 08:28:35 am »

So tell me; do you really believe that knowledge of a topic has no bearing on one's ability to teach that topic?

An interesting point - but you need to define 'teach'. Anyone can read a book about aperture, focal length and composition and teach a bunch of neophytes and sound awesome. That same person would be shown up if 'teaching' a seminar to 'advanced' photographers. I could teach maths to a primary school class but would be pretty useless to a high school student.
Someone's assessment of a teacher is usually viewed in the framework of what that 'someone' wants to find out.
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Jimbo57

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #134 on: April 05, 2015, 01:54:51 pm »

I think that most of the folk who might have forwarded cogent arguments on this topic have been chased away by the bullies.

:)

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #135 on: April 05, 2015, 02:04:31 pm »

I think that most of the folk who might have forwarded cogent arguments on this topic have been chased away by the bullies.
:)

If they are so easily chased away, maybe they should be? ;)

armand

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #136 on: April 05, 2015, 04:28:53 pm »

If they are so easily chased away, maybe they should be? ;)

As a side note, that's probably the most frequent excuse of bullies in general.

mouse

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #137 on: April 05, 2015, 06:08:35 pm »

Intransitive "teach" versus transitive use "teach <a subject>" here.  If you can't teach (intransitive) you can't teach <anything> (transitive).

Very often in the academy, you can neither do nor teach, even if you know how to do both!

Granted, however if you can teach (intransitive) it does not necessarily follow that you can teach (transitive) everything.  ;)

Your reference to "the academy" escapes me.  ???

Another thing that escapes me is, who has been (successfully) bullied and by whom?  Most contributors to this forum impress me as totally immune to bullying of any sort.  However, susceptiblity to boredome and annoyance are frequently displayed.  >:(
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LKaven

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #138 on: April 05, 2015, 07:31:13 pm »

Granted, however if you can teach (intransitive) it does not necessarily follow that you can teach (transitive) everything.  ;)

I transitively agree with that.

Quote
Your reference to "the academy" escapes me.  ???

Academy = school.  School is often neither a good place for teaching nor a good place for doing. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bullying as a substitute for Argument
« Reply #139 on: April 05, 2015, 10:25:01 pm »

Here's why I ask for photos (sometimes.) 
1. The advice might be wrong; just some opinion passing for knowledge and good technique.  There's a lot of that on the web.  Being able to check has made Angie of Angie's List wealthy.
2. The advice might be helpful.  But the results might not be what I'm looking for.  Do I spend time changing my current technique only to find the results not to my liking and thus wasting all my time.  A few samples of the adviser's photos would clarify if I want to spend time, energy and money trying the technique. 
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