Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum

[synn]

Michael, Nick, Kevin and all,

This is the only sub forum we have where medium format shooters can talk about their gear, the images they shoot with it, tips and tricks and so on. As you know, almost all of these threads end up being some 10 page debate over an MTF chart or whatever. Now this is a free world and there's definitely a place for such discussions, but sometimes the photography oriented amongst us just wanna know if lens A or lens B is better for portraiture (Some images would be nice) or if Back A or Back B has nicer colors out of the box for landscaping (Again, images would be nice) without being subject to endless discussions on CCD vs CMOS, CFA construction and supplier landscape and of course, test charts after test charts. Moreso when most of these posts take the discussion away from a medium format related one to Medium format vs 35mm and whatnot.

Therefore, I would like to appeal for a sub forum to discuss the technical aspects of capturing an image. Format no bar. All the charts, graphs and feather images would be perfectly on topic there and there are enough active posters here to keep that forum alive and kicking.

Thank you.

[NickT]

While we are at it could we please have a special forum for Theodoros to rant at Hasselblad.

[Joe Towner]

Might I also add to the request for an example images sub-forum?  I've got lots I can post, but they don't fall into the professional or non-professional work.  I would post to a Z and a H specific thread, plus film when I get around to shooting it.

It would also be helpful to have a moderated folder of 'best practices' sub-forum that we can add to - like troubleshooting steps and how to that may be specific to a camera.  The thread could be hashed out outside of it, but inside the sub-forum, it's filtered down to minimal posts.

[tjv]

While we are at it could we please have a special forum for Theodoros to rant at Hasselblad.

Haha, classic!

[hjulenissen]

...sometimes the photography oriented amongst us just wanna know ... if Back A or Back B has nicer colors out of the box for landscaping (Again, images would be nice) without being subject to ...

One might suspect that what you are proposing is that "I would like to be able to throw out subjective claims about the color of Back A vs Back B without facing any critical questions from color scientists or anyone else. If they do, i want them kicked into the nerd corner".

While I share your frustration over communication with people with a different mindset, I am not sure that segregation is the answer. Sticking to basic social skills seems like a better approach. E.g. "I hear what you say, but I disagree". "Would you care to explain that in practical terms?". Sometimes, the answer may be to walk out, rather than giving the impression that you are here to hammer your point into people.

-h

[jerome_m]

sometimes the photography oriented amongst us just wanna know if lens A or lens B is better for portraiture (Some images would be nice) or if Back A or Back B has nicer colors out of the box for landscaping (Again, images would be nice)

Forums live from people answering questions, not from people asking them. If you want this forum to have more comparison pictures, just start posting some yourself.

For example, in the following thread, I posted some comparison pictures:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=94852.0. You may not agree to the systematic approach or presentation, but this is what I can offer to the landscape photographer interested in H lenses. I am still waiting for other photographers to post something similar taken with Schneider on Phase One cameras or with technical cams. If more people took the challenge, we would have a body of pictures for comparison between different lens design approaches. That would be of interest to landscape photographers.

Maybe you are not interested by landscapes? If you are, for example, interested into portraits, what about posting a few pictures of models with different carnations under different lights to show how your cameras responds? If more people take the challenge with different cameras, we will have a body of pictures for comparison on how skin tones varies with different brands and how the different brands respond to different lights. I would have little use for that since I rarely take portraits, but it would be interesting to others.

The solution to your problem lies in your hands.

[synn]

You guys should see how the same threads get answered here and at GetDPI to see what this is all about.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

One might suspect that what you are proposing is that "I would like to be able to throw out subjective claims about the color of Back A vs Back B without facing any critical questions from color scientists or anyone else. If they do, i want them kicked into the nerd corner".

While I share your frustration over communication with people with a different mindset, I am not sure that segregation is the answer. Sticking to basic social skills seems like a better approach. E.g. "I hear what you say, but I disagree". "Would you care to explain that in practical terms?". Sometimes, the answer may be to walk out, rather than giving the impression that you are here to hammer your point into people.

-h

+1

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

As a small reflection, I don't think the moderators's main hobby is censoring these forums. The kind free flow of thoughts and open exchange of minds is what forums like this are about. It is anyone's choice to join any thread.

There is a rule here on LuLa and that is about civilised manners and avoidance of bad language ( in the sense descibed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profanity ).

This forum "Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography" is dominated by technical threads, see the screen dump below showing the most recent threads. So little surprise that discussions also get technical.

Best regards
Erik

[ErikKaffehr]

Content removed, as I have been informed that my information was bad.

I was obviously wrong on the issue – GetDPI has a lot of postings – but that makes me glad, as I really enjoy GetDPI. Thanks "tsjanik" for pointing out the issue!

Best regards
Erik

You guys should see how the same threads get answered here and at GetDPI to see what this is all about.

[Theodoros]

While we are at it could we please have a special forum for Theodoros to rant at Hasselblad.

I think you misunderstand my criticism on Hasselblad... I adore Hasselblad for its history, its contribution into advancing photography and its undeniable quality of products! My criticism on them is purely on their marketing decisions after H3's introduction and I am not the only one that does so... The financial position of the company proves that all criticism about them was and is right... Never the less, they seem to come back into correcting many of the false decisions they did over the past 10 years but I feel the pace is slower than it should. I would hate to see Hasselblad vanish and I believe all others that criticise their marketing would feel the same....
 Never the less, If I would have to change my system from the Contax (which I'm not unless Hasselblad opens their system completely), I would much prefer Hasselblad than Phamiya.
 Now, as far as the proposition of the O/P is concerned, I agree with you, but honestly don't think that it will change anything since clear rules as to what is relevant and what isn't in a discussion is very difficult to be set...

P.S. I do seriously think that if in Hasselblad they decide to offer an alternative choice for customers to buy one of the H5 backs combined with an H5x instead of the dedicated body and if they guaranty that future backs (H6?) will work on an H5x like current H5 backs do, it will attract more customers to the firm... Do you disagree on that?

[synn]

As with many things, Quality > Quantity, Erik.

[ErikKaffehr]

Synn,

That is a good point. But, you are not sole juror on quality and quantity is measurable.

Best regards
Erik

As with many things, Quality > Quantity, Erik.

[synn]

Synn,

That is a good point. But, you are not sole juror on quality and quantity is measurable.

Best regards
Erik

I dont recollect saying that I am.
All I asked is that you tech people talk about your tech dealings in a separate forum and the rest of us have non tech related discussions elsewhere.

Do you see Canon users spending all their time on Nikonrumors and vice versa? Same difference.

[Manoli]

Alternatively, I'd propose 2 new sub-forums for linking and posting images, be they web-based images or attachments, other than if they serve to illustrate the point in discussion ( such as jerome_m's recent hasselblad lens comparisons). One pro  and one non-pro (amateur), and I mean 'pro' in the fullest sense of the word (those who derive their income from the profession) whilst the 'non-pro' (amateur) would include those who aspire to pro status but are yet to achieve it.

Currently, there are two threads running in the MF section and a couple in another sub-forum. Why not just amalgamate them in a new 'Image' sub-forum ?

Other than the above, how about a forum for 'Lighting' ?

[hjulenissen]

I dont recollect saying that I am.
All I asked is that you tech people talk about your tech dealings in a separate forum and the rest of us have non tech related discussions elsewhere.

Do you see Canon users spending all their time on Nikonrumors and vice versa? Same difference.

Canon cameras are not based on Nikon guts. Thus one might not expect most Canon users to be highly interested in Nikon cameras.

All cameras are based on camera technology. Thus one might expect a significant number of camera users to be interested in camera technology. Refusing photographers to discuss camera tech would be like refusing painters to discuss paint.

Again, you seem to want to be able to make claims about e.g. image quality without facing difficult questions from people who (potentially) know camera technology better than yourself. I think that that line of thinking is counter productive. If you want to be a great photographer, then be a great photographer. If you are able to be one without having an interest in or spending time on camera technology, then good for you. Certainly, a great photographer does not need to "win" every single discussion on the internet in order to be a greatphotographer?

-h

[Manoli]

All I asked is that you tech people talk about your tech dealings in a separate forum and the rest of us have non tech related discussions elsewhere.

I think the tech side covers most of the existing forums 'as-is'.
Colour management, Digital Image processing, Printing papers and Inks, Motion & Video ...

Are you seriously proposing that all these forums should be relegated to 'pretty-picture' status and condensed into one forum rather than tech based discussions in the current format ?  Better my proposal above, where you can have your own 'camera club' space, which is, IMO, essentially what you're asking for.

[Ken R]

Like I have said before. A handful of posters here focus mainly on the quantitative aspect of photo gear. Those same people are the ones that post the most ( seems like posting here is a priority in their life or have nothing else to do) so its no surprise that most discussions are skewed in that direction quickly. Not saying that the numbers or engineering part of photo gear is not important, it is, specially to those who make photo gear (hardware) and software and maybe to those who make purchasing decisions based on numbers.

But there is a HUGE qualitative aspect of photo gear that is very important, how things work in your hands while making real world images and also subjective qualities of gear that are all somewhat crushed by a few forum members that focus on the quantitative aspects, that seem to wanna be involved in every thread, have the last word and just don't know when to shut up.

Again, these types of people are in every forum but given that the Medium Format Owners community is a pretty small one they stick out and affect the dynamics of the group quite a bit.

[hjulenissen]

But there is a HUGE qualitative aspect of photo gear that is very important, how things work in your hands while making real world images and also subjective qualities of gear that are all somewhat crushed by a few forum members that focus on the quantitative aspects,...

It is interesting how our perception change with our position. I see*) things radically differently from yourself. I see people like the thread starter involving themselves in many of the threads that I am interested in, making it appear as if the thread have zero interest to them, only repeatedly posting in order to make the thread less pleasant. It appears that some of these people are on a crusade to tell people like myself that my approach to photography is a waste of time, and if I disagree the point will be hammered into me at every possible time.

In fact, I recently asked synn how many times he would repeat himself before getting bored:

At least as many times as people find the time to point it out.

I don't think that you will find anyone that disputes that there are important qualitative aspects to photography. The question is (perhaps) if discussion about quantitative aspects must be moderated away in order to discuss qualitative aspects. I don't think so. People will discuss what they will discuss, and if you want to start a thread on something that interest you, no-one will stop you. You might not get 100 replies like the guy asking about the DR of Nikon vs Canon, but that is just an indication of what people are interested in.

...seem to wanna be involved in every thread, have the last word and just don't know when to shut up.

In a discussion where people argue, there will inevitable be someone who gets the "last word". What you are saying is that you wish group A would leave the final word to group B? Let me guess that you identify yourself with group B?

-h
*)I am talking about my qualitative perception of other contributions here, not quantitative facts.

[Manoli]

But there is a HUGE qualitative aspect of photo gear that is very important, how things work in your hands while making real world images and also subjective qualities of gear ..

Agreed, and where better to discuss and illustrate this aspect if not in a dedicated forum ?