Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8   Go Down

Author Topic: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum  (Read 34175 times)

gerald.d

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 438
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2014, 05:18:48 am »

Alternatively, I'd propose 2 new sub-forums for linking and posting images, be they web-based images or attachments, other than if they serve to illustrate the point in discussion ( such as jerome_m's recent hasselblad lens comparisons). One pro  and one non-pro (amateur), and I mean 'pro' in the fullest sense of the word (those who derive their income from the profession) whilst the 'non-pro' (amateur) would include those who aspire to pro status but are yet to achieve it.

Why would you want this split?

What makes you think "non-pros" would aspire to "pro status", or that they are working towards "achieving" it?

Rather vulgar elitism if you ask me.
Logged

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1885
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2014, 05:39:37 am »

Why would you want this split?
Rather vulgar elitism if you ask me.

Nope.

The split is already there, in the threads. When you and others post their 'pro' pics it serves as a form of peer review. Pics from the amateur crowd, and it's not meant in a derogatory way, often serve a different discussion. Nothing to do with elitism, all to do with 'ticking the right boxes'.

What makes you think "non-pros" would aspire to "pro status", or that they are working towards "achieving" it?

Try reading what I wrote.
Never said non-pros 'would' aspire. I said the forum 'would' include those who 'do' aspire ..


 
Logged

gerald.d

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 438
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2014, 06:34:18 am »

Nope.

The split is already there, in the threads. When you and others post their 'pro' pics it serves as a form of peer review. Pics from the amateur crowd, and it's not meant in a derogatory way, often serve a different discussion. Nothing to do with elitism, all to do with 'ticking the right boxes'.

Try reading what I wrote.
Never said non-pros 'would' aspire. I said the forum 'would' include those who 'do' aspire ..
 

I don't consider the status quo to be a good thing at all, and consider it elitist to have it.

There is a far more diverse range of quality images, and far more engagement in the targeted "fun with..." threads over at GetDPI, in which professionals, semi-professionals, and amateurs all contribute to freely.

Your critique of my interpretation of what you wrote is welcomed, thank you. But it actually makes things even worse in my view. Those amateurs who would aspire to being professionals segregated away from professionals? And you actually felt it necessary to draw out that distinction?

I struggle to understand the mind-set of those who would think that is a positive thing.

The two things that professional photographers are demonstrably better at doing than amateurs, are running a photography business; and generating an income.

Why would you want to split the sharing and discussion of photographs based on that distinction?

Kind regards,

Gerald.
Logged

Torbjörn Tapani

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 319
Re:
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2014, 08:13:48 am »

I haven't followed the discussion. I don't need to I think.

I do not agree that more subdivisions are a good thing. If anything I would like fewer sub-forums. I almost prefer to read Lula on my phone because the tapatalk app shows a time line with messages from any sub-forums and I end up reading things I would never seek out myself.

More subdivisions lead to fewer updates to any one sub-forum and in the end the death of a forum.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 08:15:38 am by Torbjörn Tapani »
Logged

Kevin Raber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1339
  • Kevin Raber
    • Kevin Raber
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2014, 08:33:09 am »

We are watching comments here.  We have been hesitant over the years to over complicate the forum.  The forum area has always been a great area to learn and share with others.  Sometimes it gets out of hand and we deal with those instances the best we can.  We'll consider your suggestions as we look towards the new year.  I will say one of the things that makes this forum work well is that we don't over complicate it.  Too many topics and sub topics can be as confusing as helpful.

We are all ears but in the end we will make decisions based on what we feel will benefit all our readers. If any of you have strong ideas then send me a detailed PM.

Kevin Raber
Logged
Kevin Raber
kwr@rabereyes.com
kevin@photopxl.com
rockhopperworkshops.com
photopxl.com

SZRitter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 384
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2014, 09:29:45 am »

My thought is that maybe we just need a "gear examples" (please find a better name) forum in addition to all of the "gear talk" forums. Just look at the Show me your Fuji X photos, Sigma DP Merrill photos, and I'm sure people would love to have forums devoted to just the pictures for the gear. A great example is mu-43.com that has a lens forum for talking about micro 4/3 lenses, an example forum for each lens, and an adapted lens forum for example of non-native lenses. The only problem becomes, with the highly varied nature of this forum, there is a structure issue.

P.S. Don't get a big head about being a "pro". Some of us have had the opportunity, but decided it wasn't for us. And just like the ranks of "amateur", the ranks of pro are just as varied in skill levels and technical knowledge.
Logged

Ken R

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 849
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2014, 09:44:14 am »

I agree. It is best to keep it simple.

Create just one additional sub-forum from what is available now:

"Medium Format Lens and Sensor Testing and Technology"

that should take care of it
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11288
    • Echophoto
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2014, 09:55:15 am »

Hi,

I see your point.

I was always think about the pro thread as "paid for pictures", and the pictures published there are quite different from other threads.

Regarding the "fun with … threads over at GetDPI" there are many great images posted there.

Best regards
Erik

I don't consider the status quo to be a good thing at all, and consider it elitist to have it.

There is a far more diverse range of quality images, and far more engagement in the targeted "fun with..." threads over at GetDPI, in which professionals, semi-professionals, and amateurs all contribute to freely.

Your critique of my interpretation of what you wrote is welcomed, thank you. But it actually makes things even worse in my view. Those amateurs who would aspire to being professionals segregated away from professionals? And you actually felt it necessary to draw out that distinction?

I struggle to understand the mind-set of those who would think that is a positive thing.

The two things that professional photographers are demonstrably better at doing than amateurs, are running a photography business; and generating an income.

Why would you want to split the sharing and discussion of photographs based on that distinction?

Kind regards,

Gerald.
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2014, 10:03:32 am »

I agree on the "pro" bit as SZR suggested... But, I do feel that the problem we are discussing here, comes down in reality to one member that has insisted to post the same "test" more than 100 times in more than 100 different (and many times irrelevant) conversations and through this "test" has dominated them up to an annoying degree... There was enough arguing against P1 with respect to H "fans" up to now, but this is to more or less be expected in an MF forum... Now there is the a new "competitor" that tries in an MF forum to talk MF users on how bad their choice is and how superior replacing it with a DSLR is... and he insists on promoting that same "test" in each and every conversation he enters (which is all the conversations)... I don't think it would be difficult for the mods to talk him out of this practice... After all, he doesn't seem to be a "bad fellow"... I'm sure he'll understand that its best for him to stop causing the problem, instead of the whole site changing practice because of him...

Now, lets talk on Hasselblad opening the system back!  :D (....which will be for both photographer and their own benefit) ...Shall I start the thread or others will? ...I give you a couple of days guys!  ;) ...and don't forget to include Hasselblad's MS future propositions in that thread!  :-*
Logged

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1885
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2014, 10:05:11 am »

I don't consider the status quo to be a good thing at all, and consider it elitist to have it.

Well Gerald, I've got no problem with your views/interpretation, and thanks for the pointer to GetDPI - but either way it's not an issue I feel strongly about and is not central to the core point of my post, which was:

That there are some who prefer to concentrate on the qualitative aspects of photography and, IMO, that would be best served by giving them a distinct sub-forum (or two), rather than trying to limit the technical and scientific threads and forums that currently exist.

Best
M

« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 10:37:42 am by Manoli »
Logged

Jeffery Salter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
  • Loving life one frame at a time.
    • Jeffery Salter
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2014, 10:23:15 am »

I agree. It is best to keep it simple.

Create just one additional sub-forum from what is available now:

"Medium Format Lens and Sensor Testing and Technology"

that should take care of it

This sounds like a pretty good idea.

+1
Logged
Warmest regards,
Jeffery Salter
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Jeffery Salter
Miami, Fl. U.S.A.
photos:  www.jefferysalter.com
Blog: http://blog.jefferysalter.com/
Instagram: @jefferysalter

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1885
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2014, 10:32:20 am »

Just look at the Show me your Fuji X photos, Sigma DP Merrill photos, and I'm sure people would love to have forums devoted to just the pictures for the gear.

Why do you need 'forums' ? Just start a thread (in the correct sub-forum)* - that's what the examples you cite do as well as the pro, non-pro etc threads that currently exist. It just requires members to either start and/or post in the appropriate thread.


* which could be called 'quantitative photography in the modern imaging world'
--
ps
But non-landscapists could still do with a 'Lighting' sub-forum - Kevin, Michael et al - please note!


« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 11:13:51 am by Manoli »
Logged

SZRitter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 384
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2014, 10:54:00 am »

Why do you need 'forums' ? Just start a thread (in the correct sub-forum)* - that's what the examples you cite do as well as the pro, non-pro threads that currently exist. It just requires members to either start and/or post in the appropriate thread.


* which could be called "quantitative photography in the modern imaging world'

I think we are both saying the same thing, just splitting it different. What I was getting at was a section for examples (which would be filled with the threads you are talking about) and a section for technical talk (i.e. MTF charts).

The only reason to do "forums" to split the two is just simply usability. It has nothing to do with a person's capabilities to post to any of those threads, but everything to do with how easy it is to get to those threads.

At least, I think that is what the intent of Synn was in starting this thread...

Now, about that Hasselblad Stellar II...
Logged

Manoli

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1885
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2014, 10:55:37 am »

The forum area has always been a great area to learn and share with others.

+1
So much so, that I'd even call it a 'resource' - let's not lose it.

Logged

SZRitter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 384
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2014, 11:09:38 am »

So, umm...this is embarrassing, I think I misunderstood Synn's intent. It wasn't to have threads of images to evaluate a certain piece of gear, but to have threads talking about said of gear without getting into the technical aspects. Correct?
Logged

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2014, 11:19:30 am »

Now, about that Hasselblad Stellar II...

...he,he,he... I think they closed the premises in Italy down and fired the personal (as well as the CEO)... What a disaster! ...I think they only have kept a FF version of the Sony in limited quantities just "to keep in touch" for future use... I hate to say that they wouldn't listen so many people telling them... "are you nuts"? ...but again, there where so many people telling them they where "committing suicide" when they "closed" the H3 and they where "playing def"... They still do (to a lesser extend) "playing def" and if they continue with this, it'll be a disaster for photography (having only P1 in MF business) ...Unless if Leica merges as to "save" them... which looks like the most possible scenario... but the more it delays... (like with Sinar) the less costly the buying out will be... unless they wake up and open the system back to where it was 10 years ago...
Logged

ondebanks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2014, 11:48:17 am »

We are watching comments here.  We have been hesitant over the years to over complicate the forum.  The forum area has always been a great area to learn and share with others.  Sometimes it gets out of hand and we deal with those instances the best we can.  We'll consider your suggestions as we look towards the new year.  I will say one of the things that makes this forum work well is that we don't over complicate it.  Too many topics and sub topics can be as confusing as helpful.

We are all ears but in the end we will make decisions based on what we feel will benefit all our readers. If any of you have strong ideas then send me a detailed PM.

Kevin Raber

Kevin,

Thanks for letting us know you're watching this.

I think that Synn's proposal is misguided, elitist and unworkable. Listen to the feedback, think about it, and then do us a favour and bin it.

There are two scenarios where "tech talk" arises in the Medium Format forum:

1) Threads which are named along tech lines. Anyone who knows they're not interested in that aspect can ignore them. No need for a sub-forum.

2) Threads where it becomes necessary to introduce "tech talk" to explain what's going on. You cannot seriously expect people who understand why such-and-such a camera is a poor high ISO or long exposure of wide dynamic ange performer, to bite their tongue and say nothing when another member wonders how/if they can get better results. I'm an educator by profession, so holding back on useful information is anathema to me. It is also part of my personal journey through medium format to learn more about these aspects all the time, and that happens through discussion with other users.

I will not be relegated to 2nd-class status and stuck in a sub-forum because some other member holds one type of contribution as being more inherently valuable than another. Synn's proposal is not driven by an urge for organisational efficiencies: it is driven by an elitism about what constitutes "proper" medium format forum content. Don't believe me? See the similar debate we had in this getdpi thread, posts #84 onwards.

Ray



Logged

peterv

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 160
    • facebook
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2014, 01:03:11 pm »

I agree with everything that Ray and Keith just said. These past few weeks, I've read just as many snarky remarks that we need more 'High Art' as I've seen feathers. I say, to each their own. Everyone is free to comment, participate, or neglect a thread in this forum. I like the technical contributions and I like BC's images. I like the mix and I say keep it the way it is, and if you feel you've nothing to add to a particular discussion, let it be.
Logged

Theodoros

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2454
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2014, 01:27:21 pm »

May I ask....? If there wasn't this particular issue that has annoyed too many people, having being posted so many times in so many threads and wouldn't have dominated these threads.... would there ever be a problem? ...or a suggestion for a new forum? ....Q.E.D then...  I insist than mods can easily persuade the originator of the issue different... I'm also sure he'll understand (as well as the few that see it as a game of "playing the Einstein" to others and are backing (and feed) this nonsense)...

Now, what about P1 offering their backs for a third of the price they now ask for? ...I'm sure they will if Hasselblad "opens" the system back....
Logged

sgilbert

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Appeal for a photography tech sub-forum
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2014, 01:53:05 pm »

I love the optimistic view that the posters who give rise to the initial suggestion here wouldn't post in whatever thread was created to avoid the objected-to content.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8   Go Up