Canon 7D Mark II announced

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Correct, Jack. Nobody is arguing there should be just one camera and that it should be Nikon D810-like. Horses for courses. What I and others are arguing, however, is that Canon should have a model in their range, in addition to 7DII etc., that addresses the needs for higher megapixels and higher dynamic range.

[John Koerner]

Correct, Jack. Nobody is arguing there should be just one camera and that it should be Nikon D810-like. Horses for courses. What I and others are arguing, however, is that Canon should have a model in their range, in addition to 7DII etc., that addresses the needs for higher megapixels and higher dynamic range.

Agreed. And, on another thread on this forum, there was talk about this possibility in October.

Hopefully, this proves to be more than talk and actually happens.

[NancyP]

Slobodan, different yawns for different folks.
If you plan on two cameras, one to shoot willdlife, one for landscape, the 7D2 is pretty exciting for the former use. If you don't bother with wildlife, well yes, the 7D2 is a yawn, and a good MF back is more exciting even than a Sony 36MP FF sensor.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Slobodan, different yawns for different folks.
If you plan on two cameras, one to shoot willdlife, one for landscape, the 7D2 is pretty exciting for the former use. If you don't bother with wildlife, well yes, the 7D2 is a yawn, and a good MF back is more exciting even than a Sony 36MP FF sensor.

Nancy, that my "yawn" is interpreted as a dissing of 7DII specifically is a result of me posting it in this thread, which is nobody else's fault but mine, of course. However, as I explained later, my reaction was more about Canon's overall strategy, not this particular camera. I posted in this thread as it was the only thread at the moment about Canon and Photokina (which is telling in itself - no other exciting announcement from them worth writing home about, let alone starting a separate thread). I am sure 7DMII is a better camera than 7D and probably better than some of its competitors. After five years, it better be.

I've been with Canon the last 40 years (damn!) and currently have 20D, 40D and 60D. If I am to move up from 60D it better be significantly better, not just a few improvements. And better in the direction I am interested in, like megapixels and dynamic range. I also need articulated screen and wi-fi ( (o.k., nice to have, not a need, but when so many cameras these days have it, why not?). I can't afford medium format, so I see two possible ways forward for me: Olympus or Nikon (or both, if I could afford: Olympus for traveling light and spur-of-the-moment shots, and Nikon for planned trips).

[allegretto]

90% of my shots are families and children. yeah, i know, boring...

My 6D is damn good but this new one seems almost ideal. The only thing i'm thinking is that a may need wider than the 17-35 zoom that currently is my widest...

the 24-105mm will probably NEVER come off that camera

[John Koerner]

Looks like the 7D II really is a better camera than the 1dx and D4 ... for $1,800

Canon EOS 7D II Twice as Good?
Interview with Canon's Chuck Westfall

Weather sealing "4x as good" as the original 7D ...
"Newly-developed" 20.2MP sensor ...
"More and better" AF points than any current offering ...
"Every one" of the 65 AF points is cross-type, unprecedented ...
"Actual external lever" to control AF Points/Zones" ... unprecedented ...
"More total control" of camera than any current offering ...

It is also reputed to have better noise reduction/low light capability than the previous iteration ... and the sensor is "better" than that of the 70D ... whatever that means.

All-in-all, perhaps not the one-shot wonder camera, but it looks like the more robust, overall more useful camera.

Jack

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Looks like the 7D II really is a better camera than the 1dx and D4 ... for $1,800...

This keeps popping up, as it is a big deal. It ain't. It would have been, had it been announced at the same time as those other cameras. Years later, it ain't a big deal anymore. When I bought my 46" TV, it was about $1,700. For that money today I can get a 70" one (!), with a load of additional features mine does not have.

[John Koerner]

This keeps popping up, as it is a big deal. It ain't. It would have been, had it been announced at the same time as those other cameras. Years later, it ain't a big deal anymore.

Canon couldn't have sold a single 1Dx if they announced the 7DII concurrently years ago. What's more, they didn't have this sensor, nor the AF capability of this camera "back then."

The ability to get $7,000 worth of product for $1,800 is a big deal.

You can't even get what this camera has, at this price,  right now ... but you can do it in one more month.

This camera is a big deal. It's the definition of a BIG DEAL.

What other definition of a "big deal" do you need?

When I bought my 46" TV, it was about $1,700. For that money today I can get a 70" one (!), with a load of additional features mine does not have.

That is a big deal also ... the ability to get MORE awesome stuff for LESS money is the very definition of "big deal"

Jack

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Well, Jack, yes... in historical terms. It is a big deal that today's iPhone has more processing power than the first mainframes decades ago, costs a fraction and takes a fraction of the roomful of space the mainframe did. It is a big deal. And yet, it isn't a big deal that the next model of iPhone has better specs than the previous at the same (or lower) price, because it is expected. Technology marches on and generally produces better specs at lower price.

[John Koerner]

Well, Jack, yes... in historical terms. It is a big deal that today's iPhone has more processing power than the first mainframes decades ago, costs a fraction and takes a fraction of the roomful of space the mainframe did. It is a big deal. And yet, it isn't a big deal that the next model of iPhone has better specs than the previous at the same (or lower) price, because it is expected. Technology marches on and generally produces better specs at lower price.

Slobo, the only 2 things the 7D II doesn't have is "the best sensor in the world" ... and wifi ...

But it does have an all-new sensor (that hasn't even been reviewed yet) ...

Further, it has a full combo of more solid construction, fine image quality, better shutter life, and greater lens compatibility than any other camera (under $4,000) ... and everything else about it (speed, functional controls, etc.) blows every other camera out of the water ... up to and including $6-$7,000 cameras.

For $1,799.

In real-world usage, overall it's the best camera value out there.

No one camera can do everything, but this one comes the closest, for the least money.

Watch and see.

[BernardLanguillier]

The odds you'll buy a 7DII are increasing to 99.99% Jack.

Your posts are litteraly droopling with want, its leaking from the screen.

The wait is going to be long till availability.

Cheers,
Bernard

[uaiomex]

In real world usage is a big deal. In the minds of digital photographers (Collective thinking) where 2 years late is "too late" is not a big deal. Proof is the almost universal consesnsus to declare this year Photokina, lame.
Actually the only company that broke new grounds was Samsung, imo.

Will they sell 7DII's? I'm sure they'll sell lots of them. Canon has been doing the right things for the last many decades. They deserve this success. Have they lost their mojo? It sure looks like they did.

Eduardo

Slobo, the only 2 things the 7D II doesn't have is "the best sensor in the world" ... and wifi ...

But it does have an all-new sensor (that hasn't even been reviewed yet) ...

Further, it has a full combo of more solid construction, fine image quality, better shutter life, and greater lens compatibility than any other camera (under $4,000) ... and everything else about it (speed, functional controls, etc.) blows every other camera out of the water ... up to and including $6-$7,000 cameras.

For $1,799.

In real-world usage, overall it's the best camera value out there.

No one camera can do everything, but this one comes the closest, for the least money.

Watch and see.

[John Koerner]

In real world usage is a big deal.

Exactly. Therefore, having the most usable camera available, for the money, is huge.

In the minds of digital photographers (Collective thinking) where 2 years late is "too late" is not a big deal.

Nothing is late. You cannot get a camera like the 7D now, for less than $6,000. You cannot. So who in the world is "late?" ...

But in one month, you can. That is not "too late": it means the 7D II will be in a class by itself for under $2,000 in one month from now.

You would have to fork out $6,000 - $7,000 to get a comparable camera, and both the Canon 1Dx and Nikon D4 would be inferior over all at nearly 4x the price.

Actually the only company that broke new grounds was Samsung, imo.

Broke new ground? At what really? 14 fps?
Have you even compared images yet?

You want to talk about lame?
Built like a toy = lame.
No lenses = lame.
As an overall tool and system, the Samsung equivalent is a joke by comparison.

Will they sell 7DII's? I'm sure they'll sell lots of them. Canon has been doing the right things for the last many decades. They deserve this success.
Eduardo

Yes, back to the real world, Eduardo.

In the real world, the 7D II will prove to be the best overall camera and solutions for photographers under $2,000, and by 7 country miles.

And, yes again, they will sell a ton of them as a result, and there will be more outstanding nature/sports photos shot with this camera "in the real world," than by the Nikon ASP-Cs, the Samsung ASP-C, and the Sony-ASPCs put together. Watch.

Have they lost their mojo? It sure looks like they did.
Eduardo

I suggest you go to the optometrist then so you can see straight.

Jack

[John Koerner]

Technology marches on and generally produces better specs at lower price.

Then why be disappointed when, in one month, a new product will come out that is better than current $7,000 flagship cameras, for 1/4 the price?

Nobody else is making a camera like that now. Nobody.

So what is "too late?"

[BernardLanguillier]

Then why be disappointed when, in one month, a new product will come out that is better than current $7,000 flagship cameras, for 1/4 the price?

Nobody else is making a camera like that now. Nobody.

Except Samsung I guess.

Sorry Jack, but anyone looking objectively at the situation will realize that the specs of the NX1 are at least 1 generation ahead with the current pace of innovation at Canon. That could mean 5 long years by when we will have a NX3 doing a full sensor read out at 8k and 48mp stills with 15 stops DR. The only question being whether they will already have released their levitating camera or not.

I suggest you bookmark this post to be to come back to it so that we see who was right.

Granted, we still needs to see how the NX1 will perform. The scariest thing being that we mostly already know how the 7DII will perform...

Cheers,
Bernard

[John Koerner]

The odds you'll buy a 7DII are increasing to 99.99% Jack.

They are. The more I think about it, the more I don't want to give up this macro lens by leaving Canon. I would have to buy a whole host of gadgetry from Nikon to get a 1-5x lens range, with nowhere near the flexibility or convenience of this lens.

The MP-E 65 mm is yet another specialty lens with which Nikon can't compete.

Your posts are litteraly droopling with want, its leaking from the screen.

Literally
Drooling
It's

The wait is going to be long till availability.
Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, you're satisfied with your D810, right?
It takes beautiful images, don't you think?

Does it really bother you that, good as it is, it will NEVER take single imagery as well as the best MF cameras. Never.
Does it bother you to be "less than" in the sensor department?

I guess not. I guess you are okay with taking "less than" images, every time, because I guess you think your images are "good enough."
I guess you like the overall price point + versatility of your D810, so you are pleased with "good enough" in the sensor department to enjoy the overall versatility of your D810.

Well, guess what Bernard? Other people make similar choices as you, but with different cameras

I think the images that come from the 7D II (as well as my own 7D) are "good enough" ... I think the overall versatility of the new 7D II will trump your D810 (as the versatility of your D810 overall trumps a Hassy).
And just as you know that, individually, the images from your D810 will come up a bit short compared to the Hassy, you are still comfortable with the trade-off, and people will still enjoy the images.

Now try to use your head to think real hard (outside your own little Nikon-centered viewpoint), and stop to consider the fact I shoot different subjects than you. Nikon simply does not have an answer for much of what I like to do. (Or a complicated, inconvenient answer with nowhere near the versatility.)

Therefore, like you, I don't care if some pixel-peeper wants to blow up my images and say they're not quite as good as a D810 (just as you don't care that this same thing can be said of your D810 and a MF image).

It's the versatility, Bernard, not just the single image.
It's the lens range, Bernard, that fits my photography, not just the sensor.

In the end, I will be tailoring my choices around my interests and needs, not yours, and not because of quibbling over the sensor either ... just as, ultimately, you have "settled" with your D810 sensor as well, in comparison to other higher-end sensors. Your D810 system fits your choices better overall.

My equipment purchases will fit mine.

I hope that's okay with you

Jack

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...
Literally
Drooling
It's
...

 

[melchiorpavone]

Iz it to much two ask datt peepile spels rite and use krecht grammer?

[BernardLanguillier]

Jack,

Not sure what Nikon has to do with the fact that the NX1 does deliver a lot more than the 7DII? I have also not commented on the suitability of the 7DII for your needs, only on your claim that the 7DII delivers an un-matched spec sheet.

You are the one looking at things from a brand centric standpoint, not me. I share your view that Nikon has nothing coming close to the 7DII for wildlife.

My view is that Samsung is destroying Nikon as much as Canon in terms of innovation and I have zero problem to admit it.

Cheers,
Bernard

[John Koerner]

Actually, I disagree with your comical signs, Slobo.

If someone can't put their words together correctly, it's highly unlikely that they've put their thoughts together correctly either.

What I said above is 100% correct: Bernard needs to get over his obsession with sensors.

It is quite hypocritical of Bernard to speak only of the 7D II's sensor as if that's all there is to the camera.
It is the height of hypocrisy for him to speak about "the best" sensor, while he himself doesn't own it.
He needs to be fully-aware of this hypocrisy.
He needs to realize he will never take a single image as well with his D810 as he could have with a Hassy. Never.

Thus, in the end, Bernard should either go to MF "for the best sensor" ... or ... he should STFU about sensors and realize that other things are important also.

In fact, that is why the DSLR market is blooming, while the MF market is in peril, it's not all about the sensor.

There really is such a thing as "close enough" but with far more capabilities in other areas.

It's about the versatility, price points, and which overall system fits your particular needs, of which lens selection is perhaps the most critical consideration.

Cheers,