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Author Topic: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic  (Read 124390 times)

digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #280 on: August 25, 2014, 07:14:38 pm »

Where, within the image file, does one find the embedded profile (data) if not within the Exif data?  Does an embedded ICC profile remain intact if the Exif data is stripped from the file?
Yes, the ICC profile will remain even if all the EXIF data is stripped. I am not qualified to tell you where in the file either reside however.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 07:19:08 pm by digitaldog »
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Royce Howland

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #281 on: August 25, 2014, 07:43:33 pm »

[...] Can someone clarify this for me.  Where, within the image file, does one find the embedded profile (data) if not within the Exif data?  Does an embedded ICC profile remain intact if the Exif data is stripped from the file?

My understanding (likely flawed) is that Exif data includes ALL metadata in the image file other than the bytes representing the image itself.

No, EXIF is a single metadata standard (in fact one no longer under active maintenance or development, as far as I know). It covers only part of the metadata you could find within any given file. There are other metadata standards that cover other things, and they are not stored within the blocks of info governed by EXIF. (An example is IPTC metadata, or Adobe XMP.) The ICC profile itself, if embedded in the image, is not contained in EXIF data but within a separate batch of metadata. EXIF data might contain a truncated form of color space information, essentially just text tags giving the name of the color space that the image should interpreted within, and some other stuff.

If EXIF metadata -- strictly EXIF, that is -- gets stripped, an embedded profile will remain. If all metadata gets stripped, the embedded profile probably will disappear as well.

Here's a good little article covering this:
http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/embedded-color-space-information.html

Eyeball

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #282 on: August 25, 2014, 08:09:05 pm »

Just to add to what Andrew and Royce said - depending on the software you use to create your image files, you may be able to strip the ICC profile (separate from any Exif settings) when the file is saved.
Photoshop has this option built-in to its Save As and Save-for-Web dialogs.
Lightroom always includes the profile on export unless there is some secret setting somewhere that I haven't found yet.
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #283 on: August 25, 2014, 08:18:50 pm »

Stand up comic #2, awesome and funny video up just today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAIe8CTNSAE

After about 30 seconds of sound and video, nothing but black (thankfully).
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supercurio

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #284 on: August 25, 2014, 08:25:14 pm »

Stand up comic #2, awesome and funny video up just today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAIe8CTNSAE

After about 30 seconds of sound and video, nothing but black (thankfully).


I'm not really convinced by either of the 2 new videos uploads.
It's like they're trying to keep me in the dark on this topic.

Explanations are a bit obscure don't you think.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 08:30:25 pm by supercurio »
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #285 on: August 25, 2014, 08:27:06 pm »

Video as is appears to be a shame from 0.16 into the piece. Crockett's saying he's an X-rite Coloratti. Really Will? Not seeing you here:
https://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=367

Search the entire X-rite site for Crockett, nothing.
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Eyeball

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #286 on: August 25, 2014, 08:42:37 pm »

Stand up comic #2, awesome and funny video up just today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAIe8CTNSAE

After about 30 seconds of sound and video, nothing but black (thankfully).


I think what happened was that they did the video in AdobeRGB and when it got jammed into YouTube's smaller rainbow, its end was truncated.  It got muffin-topped.  ;D
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #287 on: August 25, 2014, 08:47:58 pm »

I think what happened was that they did the video in AdobeRGB and when it got jammed into YouTube's smaller rainbow, its end was truncated.  It got muffin-topped.  ;D

ROTFL!
Another Fong train wreck.
Want to bet they pull it and fix the Coloratti 'Will's Expertise' little white lie?
Talk about another lack of peer review. Can't wait to see what Gary has to say about this little snafu. Yup, it's all the fault of Adobe RGB (1998)!

Is Will and Gary the new Abbott and Costello of color management? Sorry, that's totally unfair, I feel bad. Unfair to Abbott and Costello that is!

Update, the video was just pulled. Damage done. Lie recorded. Game over Gary.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 08:51:54 pm by digitaldog »
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supercurio

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #288 on: August 25, 2014, 08:49:58 pm »

Video as is appears to be a shame from 0.16 into the piece

He also states that "your [Gary] video is right".
Off a bad start, not very promising...

I was suggesting earlier to delete both erroneous videos.
Apparently people of managing this channel are also unable multiple corrupted uploads. That might never happen ^_^
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Mac Mahon

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #289 on: August 25, 2014, 08:55:40 pm »

This whole discussion is about AdobeRGB vs sRGB.  If your opinion is the last video is misleading, unprofessional, etc. then this video will have as only the information that was gleaned from the tests.  Camera to print, staying in their respective color spaces, and put out for the public to vote.  Will they say, "I can't really tell" or will they say, "AdobeRGB is much better"?

I still haven't heard anybody going on record saying that the AdobeRGB is going to win.  Just a bunch of snipes off topic.

Gary

I learned Color Management the hard way.
I photographed a wedding in which the bride's mother wore a deep cyan dress.  I shot RAW.
When I printed the image file on my properly profiled inkjet printer  I could not (initially) match the screen to my print - on the color of that dress alone.
I assumed the printer was wrong.  It wasn't.  The monitor I was using at the time, whose gamut was closer to sRGB than to the printer's much wider gamut, was clipping the cyans to blue.

I have since invested in a wide gamut monitor and the situation is now very sensible.

But this is a very instructive image.
If I leave it in ProPhoto, or convert to AdobeRGB, and then print on my inkjet (converting to the inkjet profile on the way), I get a true representation of the bride's mother's dress.  Deep cyan.  She is happy.
If I convert to sRGB and print, I get a blue dress.  She is not happy.  The color is wrong.

Why would I ever convert to sRGB?  (1) to put the image onto the web even though I know that colour is wrong and (2) to demonstrate to students the inadequacy of restricting captured colour to the sRGB color space.

If, in your experiment, each image is finally converted to a good colour profile for your print, and if the color gamut of your inkjet is as wide as mine, I predict the the pictures of all but one of the squares on the colour checker will look exactly the same whether you shot JPEG sRGB or JPEG aRGB.  The cyan square will be cyan in the aRGB workflow, and blue in the sRGB.  Will it be better?  What does that mean?  The representation in the aRGB workflow will be more accurate.

Just my 2¢

Tim


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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #290 on: August 25, 2014, 08:56:01 pm »

Now all Gary and Will have to do is hack into the X-rite site and make Will a Coloratti as there's no way they can correct previous mistakes, not in their nature.
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supercurio

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #291 on: August 25, 2014, 09:02:23 pm »

Now all Gary and Will have to do is hack into the X-rite site and make Will a Coloratti as there's no way they can correct previous mistakes, not in their nature.

That was a good catch Andrew.
I'm anticipating damage control cover up like "I've been a X-Rite coloratti" (former is a long word).

To double check you can ask them by mail directly maybe, the site could totally be outdated.
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Schewe

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #292 on: August 25, 2014, 09:07:11 pm »

Stand up comic #2, awesome and funny video up just today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAIe8CTNSAE

After about 30 seconds of sound and video, nothing but black (thankfully).


Well, that links comes up with The User Has Removed This Video. So the question is, did they hose the video itself or are they gonna redo it to fix the obvious errors? Or, maybe Gary is just gonna disappear :~)
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #293 on: August 25, 2014, 09:09:11 pm »

That was a good catch Andrew.
I'm anticipating damage control cover up like "I've been a X-Rite coloratti" (former is a long word).
To double check you can ask them by mail directly maybe, the site could totally be outdated.
Oh I know who to email and ask, being I was one of the first Coloratti when the program began and was rolled out at PMA 2007. It was myself, Steven Johnson, Chris Muraphy, Steve Upton of CHROMIX, Vincent Versace, Andy Katz, Eddie Tapp and one butt ugly jacket:


Maybe Will was a Coloratti and got kicked out? No, just kidding ;D
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #294 on: August 25, 2014, 09:09:51 pm »

Or, maybe Gary is just gonna disappear :~)
Wishful thinking but not in his nature.
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supercurio

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #295 on: August 25, 2014, 09:17:27 pm »

Oh I know who to email and ask, being I was one of the first Coloratti when the program began and was rolled out at PMA 2007. It was myself, Steven Johnson, Chris Muraphy, Steve Upton of CHROMIX, Vincent Versace, Andy Katz, Eddie Tapp and one butt ugly jacket:


Maybe Will was a Coloratti and got kicked out? No, just kidding ;D

Ha, nice story  :)

Given recent publications, as X-Rite I would indeed kick him out.
His endorsement and message are an embarrassment really.
Incompatible with X-Rite characteristics :

Quote
Featured Coloratti
X-Rite’s Coloratti includes the world’s top professional photographers and filmmakers, a group whose vision, passion, leadership, and partnership are recognized and valued by X-Rite. These individuals are highly respected by their peers and are admired by up-and-coming professionals
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #296 on: August 25, 2014, 09:27:49 pm »

Quote
These individuals are highly respected by their peers and are admired by up-and-coming professionals
Even if Will was (or still is) a Coloratti, the video will still likely be the train wreck expected. And that he isn't listed, that might be even more telling based on the bit about peer respect. Well Gary seems to respect him. Because to be honest, Will has proven to be a color scientist in comparison.
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hugowolf

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #297 on: August 25, 2014, 09:32:07 pm »

So this is why X-Rite products are so expensive, I'm subsidizing jackets of a reddish hue.  :)

Brian A
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 10:30:01 pm by hugowolf »
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #298 on: August 25, 2014, 09:35:13 pm »

Calling it reddish is being kind to what has to be the ugliest color and jacket cut every created.
I'd measure it with an i1 Pro to give you the Lab values but it would fry the Spectrophotometer.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #299 on: August 25, 2014, 09:51:45 pm »

Calling it reddish is being kind to what has to be the ugliest color and jacket cut every created.
I'd measure it with an i1 Pro to give you the Lab values but it would fry the Spectrophotometer.

It looks better if you keep it away from the light. Do you think Stephen Johnson did that on purpose?

Jim
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 09:53:33 pm by Jim Kasson »
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