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Author Topic: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic  (Read 113080 times)

digitaldog

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sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« on: August 21, 2014, 10:37:36 am »

I thought Will Crocket's video on sRGB vs. Adobe RGB were a hoot but this guy Gary Fong is very wrong but a very funny guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i95ZghwUf4&feature=youtu.be

2014 and we still get this kind of nonsense?
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Royce Howland

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2014, 11:01:10 am »

I first saw that one a few days ago, and it was good for a laugh. A nice mix of context-free sweeping generalizations, factual inaccuracies, conflations of different factors, and misguided folksy non-remedies for good colour. I'm not sure he realizes the irony of his statement in his own text description of the video: "You will hear in the comments many misguided attempts by self-proclaimed experts that are trying to sound smart but are very, very wrong - and this is super common." Yeah, himself included.

But my laugh was kind of rueful, too. Like you, I thought "wow -- we're still getting howlers like this coming out?"

supercurio

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2014, 11:07:34 am »

Oh wow that was painful to watch.

Textbook colorspace explained wrong if we needed another example.
It helps understanding how some people come up with such strange theories sometimes while discussing calibration, this one is sort of creative.
I really wonder how he came up with that too.
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MarkM

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2014, 02:04:06 pm »

The part that kills me, but which I didn't want to even begin getting into, is when he switches his monitor profiles between sRGB and AdobeRGB to demonstrate his point that AdobeRGB results in dull colors. Watching this wreck feels a little dirty — like rubbernecking at a highway accident.

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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2014, 02:10:33 pm »

Watching this wreck feels a little dirty — like rubbernecking at a highway accident.
I know, what a guilty pleasure. I want to stop posting but like rubbernecking at a highway accident, I can't wait to see what he comes up with next.
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Czornyj

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2014, 03:31:34 pm »

The part that kills me, but which I didn't want to even begin getting into, is when he switches his monitor profiles between sRGB and AdobeRGB to demonstrate his point that AdobeRGB results in dull colors. Watching this wreck feels a little dirty — like rubbernecking at a highway accident.

Exactly my feelings - and the whole rest was even worse, so far beyond stupid! It was a pure color management horror...

Simon Garrett

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2014, 04:49:02 pm »

This man deserves a medal. He has boldly gone where no man has gone before.  Or wanted to.  He has plumbed new depths.  I thought I had heard and read every possible misunderstanding on colour that a sentient creature could possibly hold, but I was wrong! 

And further: reading the painful correspondance with Andrew, he is quite immune from any explanation of his misunderstanding. 

He is up there with the very finest here on Lula and especially on dpreview, those capable of holding steadfast beliefs without evidence, and in the teeth of the most powerful evidence to the contrary.

Sir, I salute you!
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2014, 04:50:46 pm »

This man deserves a medal. He has boldly gone where no man has gone before.  Or wanted to.  He has plumbed new depths.  I thought I had heard and read every possible misunderstanding on colour that a sentient creature could possibly hold, but I was wrong! 
ROTFL!  :D
Fong has provided me with a new respect for Will Crockett's old video on the subject.
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2014, 05:38:10 pm »

But wait, there's even more standup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9u1ZFriFU

Look at the comments from a few days ago by Alex. He's getting the usual Fong treatment.
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supercurio

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 05:54:45 pm »

Andrew the latest video: Oh noes  :o
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mouse

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2014, 06:39:15 pm »

Andrew,

Re: the comments following both videos:

To those of us on LuLa (and other sites as well) you have a reputation for having a low tolerance for those who talk out of the distal end of their alimentary tract (and we love you for that).  I am therefore amazed that you took the time and effort to engage this particular idiot in such a lengthy exchange.  I understand the urge to protect the wider public from such nonsense, but the one good thing about banging your head against a wall is, it feels so good when you stop.
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Sheldon N

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2014, 07:04:22 pm »

If the extent of your technical knowledge and capabilities leads you to seek out Gary Fong as your source of color space tutorial information, then yes...you should probably be shooting in sRGB.

The former mistake being much worse than the latter. :)
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digitaldog

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2014, 07:25:14 pm »

If the extent of your technical knowledge and capabilities leads you to seek out Gary Fong as your source of color space tutorial information, then yes...you should probably be shooting in sRGB.
Until yesterday I had never heard of him! Someone on Linkedin posted a link to this new video. What a revelation. Since I had no idea who he was, I tried to suggest his video could use a bit of tech edit and after reading his reply to those who negatively commented about the video, I decided to be gently suggest he not take anything said personally. I had no idea he'd react as he did, then it just got more and more entertaining to see him implode. Somewhere, the guy has to be selling snake oil.   
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mouse

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2014, 07:32:55 pm »

Somewhere, the guy has to be selling snake oil.   

He has been selling snake oil for quite some time.  Does "Gary Fong Light Sphere" ring a bell?
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MarkM

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2014, 09:04:05 pm »

This was an especially nice exchange:

Alex Uriatin:
"A small addition to my previous comment. The hues that the speaker thinks should be "cropped" (red and violet) are those which are least involved. AdobeRGB and sRGB gamut boundaries at the blue/violet and red edges are very much the same. The largest difference between them is in cyan/green corner of the gamut. These saturated colors will be clipped the most.

Gary Fong:
 "You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Cyan green getting clipped? those colors are in the center of the spectrum. Why do people who know nothing about photography try to act like experts?"

It seems he's never looked at a gamut plot, or didn't understand it if he did.
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Chris_Brown

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2014, 09:25:21 pm »

Oof. Brutal. There are so many resources available on this topic (like this one) that it's stunning to see such blatant ignorance. By the end of the video, it's easy to think he was joking.
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Eyeball

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2014, 09:39:19 pm »

It's sad but he's all about the marketing and he uses troll-like and spammer-like tactics as part of that marketing.
It's pretty clear to me that he says these stupid things on purpose to generate the controversy and get the attention.  That's the troll-like aspect of his marketing.
He also gets so outrageous with his comments that average folks are thinking "How can anyone fall for this line of garbage?".  What you have to understand though is that like the writers of the Nigerian prince scams, he isn't after the average intelligent prospect.  His target prospects are the naive, the under-educated, and the desperate.
It doesn't bother him one bit that he loses the folks that are at least half-way discerning and intelligent.  He doesn't want them as customers anyway.  He wants the easy marks.  
If he can paint "peers" and honest experts as bullies and nerdish technocrats in the process, so much the better.  It will be well-received by many of his target prospects who are resistant to the idea of maybe actually having to study and work at something instead of just buying it.
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supercurio

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2014, 12:58:11 am »

It's sad but he's all about the marketing and he uses troll-like and spammer-like tactics as part of that marketing.
It's pretty clear to me that he says these stupid things on purpose to generate the controversy and get the attention.  That's the troll-like aspect of his marketing.
He also gets so outrageous with his comments that average folks are thinking "How can anyone fall for this line of garbage?".  What you have to understand though is that like the writers of the Nigerian prince scams, he isn't after the average intelligent prospect.  His target prospects are the naive, the under-educated, and the desperate.
It doesn't bother him one bit that he loses the folks that are at least half-way discerning and intelligent.  He doesn't want them as customers anyway.  He wants the easy marks.  
If he can paint "peers" and honest experts as bullies and nerdish technocrats in the process, so much the better.  It will be well-received by many of his target prospects who are resistant to the idea of maybe actually having to study and work at something instead of just buying it.

That's an elaborate theory.
Not impossible, I would agree with you that he uses controversy as a tool.
And yep, people love that on the internet; If you're ready to provoke and fight it makes you known: regardless if you're right or wrong.

Well I fell into the trap and eventually commented after understanding why he gets the whole thing wrong after reading a detail.
https://plus.google.com/102063546553760443692/posts/jD8FaxKbNE1

Quoting:
Quote
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Cyan green getting clipped? those colors are in the center of the spectrum. Why do people who know nothing about photography try to act like experts?

Apparently, he really believes that RGB encoded colors are able to contain spectrum data, from one wavelength to another.
So based on his initial assumption, "wider" or not makes perfect sense and everyone else is wrong.

Of course, we know that RGB image encoding obey instead to completely different model, so I tried explaining him that in the YouTube comment.
It will probably fail like other attempts but what the hell  ;D
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Simon Garrett

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2014, 07:35:51 am »

It's tempting to think people like this are stupid, but not necessarily.  You see this sort of behaviour on forums at times, even from people that very obviously aren't stupid. 

He's got something wrong, but can't countenance the idea of being wrong.  So he digs himself in deeper and deeper, and subconsciously redirects possible guilt at being wrong into anger at anyone that points it out, getting more and more abusive to anyone around. 

It's a character defect that we probably all have to some extent and is nothing to do with intelligence.  How much easier to say "Oh, sorry, I got it wrong" early on, than later, having invested so much personal credibility into the wrong idea.    At that later point, any rational reassessment of one's ideas becomes very difficult.   
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ripgriffith

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Re: sRGB vs. Adobe RGB: New color management stand up comic
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2014, 07:42:02 am »

I will say this:  he (Gary Fong) does make good flash diffusers.
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