Hasselblad CFV50c

[Chris Livsey]

As far as a 35mm camera is concerned, I think it would be prudent if Phase One focused on the medium format camera first before embarking on an entirely new camera system in an extremely competitive playing field.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

My bold above, and add: rapidly shrinking in volume, market.
DSLR and mirrorless down, a lot, compacts down, an awful lot. Overall a 25% drop in sales of cameras from year to year.
Nikon looking to spend up to $2billion in the medical products area in acquisitions, not investing in the camera and lens business.
A niche can be a comfortable place be.

[david distefano]

In my view "summer" may mean less posts or less participation... but there is no explanation why it should mean less or meaningless communication...   

actually i chuckled reading eronald's post because i knew it was a bit of satire. as an owner of the hasselblad v system i get excited as i slowly focus my zeiss lenses and that moment of pop as the image comes into focus. as a once owner of the cfv-16 had hasselblad produced backs for the v system on the lines of phase one say cfv-25 and cfv-31 along with the cfv-39 and cfv-50 without discontinuing any of the backs  i think with proper pricing they would have sold many to the owners of the v system. but now with my d800e and the coming in the not too distant future of nikon's 54mp camera to go along with my zeiss lenses for nikon, i see no reason to shoot mf digital. i do use the hasselblad but i have gone back to b&w film and printing the images in the wet darkroom. i now consider a silver gelatin print to be a part of alternative photography along with my platinum palladium printing. i know in today's world what i am doing is archaic, but i just returned from visiting my daughter in boston and had a chance to visit the m.i.t. museum and they had a section on early photography. there is a life in those images that do not show up in today's digital world. as camera sales worldwide continue to plummet (see canon's latest quarter and i am sure it will be the same for nikon) all camera manufacturers are going to have to think hard how to differentiate and be profitable. in the old days photographers had many different films to choose from to  create their own style. maybe a sensor could be designed that the photographer could through the menu design his or her own film curve or be able to switch from color to black and white. maybe make the sensor through the menu to be sensitive to blue light only or just blue and green. as i am not an engineer maybe all that i listed is impossible. but i do believe that if camera manufacturers continue on the same path that they are on today, there will be many mergers to stay alive and less choices for the photographer.

[EricWHiss]

Poor Hasselblad …         a post about their new offering and it turns into a post about what Phase will be doing and how the market share of MF cameras must be dwindling…    Hmmmm…  well the way I see it, the ease of digital photography, the social media,  and the cell phone camera together have really combined to build lots of interest in photography in general - much more than there was before.  If the the sea rises, then so do all the boats - even film!

[Ken R]

Poor Hasselblad …         a post about their new offering and it turns into a post about what Phase will be doing and how the market share of MF cameras must be dwindling…    Hmmmm…  well the way I see it, the ease of digital photography, the social media,  and the cell phone camera together have really combined to build lots of interest in photography in general - much more than there was before.  If the the sea rises, then so do all the boats - even film!

Yes, lot's of interest indeed but it's mostly about content and style rather than quality but you are right, all the boats should rise (if they don't sink).

[Chris Livsey]

At the risk of repetition, but with links this time, the digital camera boat is sinking not rising on any tides.
Even a launch sticks, the D810 is "in stock" everywhere when did that last happen for a pro-summer Nikon?


http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/dw-201406_e.pdf
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html

[eronald]

Even a launch sticks, the D810 is "in stock" everywhere when did that last happen for a pro-summer Nikon?

It was launched about a month too late to qualify as a pro-summer camera

Edmund

-- Summer is the silly season.

[Chris Livsey]

^^^

 

[gazwas]

Hmmmm…  well the way I see it, the ease of digital photography, the social media,  and the cell phone camera together have really combined to build lots of interest in photography in general - much more than there was before.  If the the sea rises, then so do all the boats - even film!

Today. photography is probably the most popular it has ever been due to the ease of accessibility through decent quality mobile phone cameras. It's no wonder the market is shrinking if that spark of interest is instantly quashed when looking for a real camera and they see prices of £5K, £10K, £20K for a camera. The percentage of mobile phone photographers willing to pay those prices must by absolutely tiny.

This new Hasselblad back is a step in the right direction with the exact same chip as the IQ250 and 90% of its functionality (more if they get LV working) but at half the price. However, now we have Pentax, Nikon and Sony with even cheaper alternatives has this price adjustment been left too late? Not everyone sees the difference a MFD chip (well, cropped 645) brings.

[MrSmith]

the problem with these ‘medium format’ sensors is that most of them are small so any difference when output is hardly noticeable and those extra 14m-pixels (36-50) will soon be gone when the ape-c pixel densities make it into full frame 35mm. and that ‘look’ people go on about is further eroded by the high resolving power and fast optics from the likes of zeiss, sigma and canon.


i still think the back will certainly sell well to H/blad users as it means they can now free themselves from the tripod  but with no live-view it’s dead in the water for a lot of potential users.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Market is obviously shrinking, but it is well possible that Phase One is out of phase with the market. Why? Moving into new markets like arial photography and repro, for instance. It may be that technical cameras also help.

But, I guess that earning money is much harder now than just a couple of years ago. I have heard that print sales are significantly down compared to a couple of years ago.

Regarding Hasselblad, it is difficult to estimate their position, but it seems they try to have lower prices than Phase One. They also have an impressive product portfolio. Question, is there a market large enough to support four vendors, Phase One, Hasselblad, Pentax and Leica? I didn't mention Leaf, as they are just a branch of the Phase One tree.

I would guess that two major drivers behind this are:

- Things are good enough - look at BC shooting 4/3 and Leica S2
- The supply side is getting larger, while buyers are holding to their money, because of the global economy

Best regards
Erik

At the risk of repetition, but with links this time, the digital camera boat is sinking not rising on any tides.
Even a launch sticks, the D810 is "in stock" everywhere when did that last happen for a pro-summer Nikon?


http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/dw-201406_e.pdf
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html

[Doug Peterson]

At the risk of repetition, but with links this time, the digital camera boat is sinking not rising on any tides.
Even a launch sticks, the D810 is "in stock" everywhere when did that last happen for a pro-summer Nikon?


http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/dw-201406_e.pdf
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html

"Digital camera boat" is a bit broad - Some segments are down, not all.

Phase One sales are up year over year for 5 years in a row, with all signs pointing toward the same for year 6.

[eronald]

"Digital camera boat" is a bit broad - Some segments are down, not all.

Phase One sales are up year over year for 5 years in a row, with all signs pointing toward the same for year 6.

This is great, it means money in the bank for you, and more cameras for the used market for the rest of us-
By the way, how is Hasselblad doing?

Edmund

[dag.bb]

Phase One seems to be doing very well indeed, according to the numbers for 2013 which were released recently:

Revenues up 32% from approx 53 MUSD to 70 MUSD

Net result up 103% from approx 5.5 MUSD to 11 MUSD

(http://www.proff.dk/firma/phase-one-as/frederiksberg/fremstillingsvirksomhed/13477705-2/)

Hasselblad numbers are not available for 2013 yet, however while they were doing well i 2011, it seems the bottom dropped out in 2012:

Revenues down 31 % from approx 42 MUSD to 29 MUSD.

Net result down 187 % from approx 8 MUSD to -7 MUSD

(http://www.proff.se/foretag/victor-hasselblad-ab/göteborg/fotoutrustningar/13095623-1/)

[ondebanks]

Poor Hasselblad …         a post about their new offering and it turns into a post about what Phase will be doing

That happened for the same reason it always does on fora - someone above was not able to just be happy for Hasselblad's good news; they had to throw in a cut at Phase while they were at it. And then the Phase crew naturally jumped in to defend/clarify. But it's hardly surprising that threads get derailed - it's a small sector and you can't really discuss a big development for one group without considering the implications for the other(s).

Ray

[EricWHiss]

...all the boats should rise (if they don't sink).

Or get swallowed by a whale….   Some of these companies, including the one I represent, are quite small by comparison to Nikon or Canon.    btw - How big is Hasselblad these days?  I had heard a rumor they might be acquired, but I think nothing came of it.  That does seem to be the path most VC or investment firms take - a flip or an exit via a public stock offering  rather than any long term partnership.  I've been watching HB since Ventizz got involved. The new CFV50c is one of the only positive things I've seen so far.

[eronald]

There's certainly a niche in V format backs with liveview. What the realistic price point is, I don't know. I'd say $4K.
 
Edmund

[JV]

There's certainly a niche in V format backs with liveview. What the realistic price point is, I don't know. I'd say $4K.
 
Edmund

For me it would make sense if Hasselblad got a cheap back out there (max $5K) in addition to the CFV-50c allowing (and encouraging) the users to upgrade over time.

[eronald]

For me it would make sense if Hasselblad got a cheap back out there (max $5K) in addition to the CFV-50c allowing (and encouraging) the users to upgrade over time.

The CFV50c *is* the Euro 5K back they should be selling, except they cannot afford to sell it at that price because of their historical lineup pricing. I have a feeling that half the members of this forum would go and get one at that price.

Edmund

[JV]

The CFV50c *is* the Euro 5K back they should be selling, except they cannot afford to sell it at that price because of their historical lineup pricing. I have a feeling that half the members of this forum would go and get one at that price.

Edmund

Given that they don't manufacture the bodies (and the lenses) anymore there is probably very little incentive to do so… only a bit of additional money for servicing the bodies already out there…

Prices for used V systems would go through the roof though… I guess I might hold on to mine a little bit longer…

I actually wonder if prices for V systems are already rising on eBay?

Joris.

[eronald]

Given that they don't manufacture the bodies (and the lenses) anymore there is probably very little incentive to do so… only a bit of additional money for servicing the bodies already out there…

Prices for used V systems would go through the roof though… I guess I might hold on to mine a little bit longer…

I actually wonder if prices for V systems are already rising on eBay?

Joris.

There are more mint V systems out there than the numbers of any DB that will be made in the near future.

Edmund