Pentax 645Z

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Maybe not, but Phase didn't *need* to price at 3x Pentax, when the comparison between a Pentax body and a Phase body is not necessarily in their favor

Hi Edmund,

I think Phase One and Pentax will serve a different market segment.

People willing to spend the money will also buy into the Phase upgrade programs and have a dealer network with replacement models (for on the job calamities) available. They also have Capture One which might not offer much quality for Pentax users.

People going for the Pentax will probably never invest the amount of money required for 'a Phase' (back + camera) upfront, and have to accept a somewhat lower level of dealer support for a more affordable purchase price.

One concern I have is the 645Z Raw conversion quality. It would be really mature of Phase One if they would support the 645Z PEF Raw format. They would probably sell more Capture One packages/upgrades than they would ever sell their digital backs to the same people, so probably also commercially a good move. All they need to do is make sure that there is a (perceived and real) benefit for the more affluent users of their backs to spend more money. Support network, customer programs, loan equipment, upgrade programs, excellent Raw conversion (and there are still some improvements possible in Capture One).

Cheers,
Bart

[BernardLanguillier]

One concern I have is the 645Z Raw conversion quality. It would be really mature of Phase One if they would support the 645Z PEF Raw format. They would probably sell more Capture One packages/upgrades than they would ever sell their digital backs to the same people, so probably also commercially a good move. All they need to do is make sure that there is a (perceived and real) benefit for the more affluent users of their backs to spend more money. Support network, customer programs, loan equipment, upgrade programs, excellent Raw conversion (and there are still some improvements possible in Capture One).

Yes... but they didn't want to support the 645D that they apparently considered to be a competitor, let's indeed hope they will change their mind.

My guess is that a high pourcentage of 645Z buyers would end up using Capture One if it did support the 645Z.

Cheers,
Bernard

[torger]

I'm pretty impressed and excited... affordable easy to use all-around medium format. If I wasn't a tech cam shooter I'd probably be all over this. It has enough DSLR-like features for me so I could probably sell my Canon system and just have a 645Z, which makes it cheaper still, one system is less costly than two .

Lenses are not exactly cheap though, and I wonder about their performance.

On the other hand a Nikon system with Otus lenses is not going to be exactly cheap either. I wonder how a 645Z camera with Pentax lenses compare to that in pixel peep resolution

Now I just want to see an even cheaper Sony mirrorless with this sensor, it would be usable for tech cam table top photography too, like A7r is today.

With this Hasselblad's, Phase One's and Leica's pricing just look even more crazy.

[jduncan]

has anyone seen a pic of the viewfinder display? keen to see if the af points are around a wide area of the display.

cheers paul

Second that It could be great or it could be not so good (as the D600) or it could be totally underwhelming.  Since the sensor is not that big (compared to full frame  35mm) I will hope that is the second option, but we will like to know.

Best regards,
J. Duncan

[Ken R]

I'm pretty impressed and excited... affordable easy to use all-around medium format. If I wasn't a tech cam shooter I'd probably be all over this. It has enough DSLR-like features for me so I could probably sell my Canon system and just have a 645Z, which makes it cheaper still, one system is less costly than two .

Lenses are not exactly cheap though, and I wonder about their performance.

On the other hand a Nikon system with Otus lenses is not going to be exactly cheap either. I wonder how a 645Z camera with Pentax lenses compare to that in pixel peep resolution

Now I just want to see an even cheaper Sony mirrorless with this sensor, it would be usable for tech cam table top photography too, like A7r is today.

With this Hasselblad's, Phase One's and Leica's pricing just look even more crazy.

Yeah, tech cams are still king for landscapes. The problem with the 645D and now the 645Z is that there are no wide angle tilt / shift lenses available. 45mm is not wide enough.

Also, yes the Otus 55mm lens is impressive…on a tripod. It is VERY hard to consistently accurately focus a 55mm f1.4 lens @ f1.4 handheld. I think it works best on a camera with an EVF (focus peaking and zoom focus). Once you start missing focus then the optical advantage over other 50mm lenses is all but gone. (you still have the nice bokeh though and rendering characteristics) Also, Zeiss should make Otus wide angle lenses which is the lens range most in need of improvement on the 36mp DSLR's and ILMC's.

IMHO Pentax should have made the 645Z mirror less. It would have opened up a world of lenses usable on it.

[BernardLanguillier]

Yeah, tech cams are still king for landscapes. The problem with the 645D and now the 645Z is that there are no wide angle tilt / shift lenses available. 45mm is not wide enough.

Also, yes the Otus 55mm lens is impressive…on a tripod. It is VERY hard to consistently accurately focus a 55mm f1.4 lens @ f1.4 handheld.

In fact, live view on a DSLR like the D800 can be used with pretty good results hand held with the Otus at f1.4. It may be doable also with the 645Z, although it is pretty heavy.



It is also reasonably easy to focus handheld compared to most other lenses, but I agree, it is not 100% reliable.

Cheers,
Bernard

[artobest]

The problem with the 645D and now the 645Z is that there are no wide angle tilt / shift lenses available. 45mm is not wide enough.

There is/soon will be a 35/3.5 available, if that helps.

Edit: Oh, and a 25/4.

[Barkeeper]

Hello,

does anyone know wether the 645Z needs a "dark exposure" after each bulb longtime exposure?
e.g. 10s bulb exposure-> 10s waiting 

Thank you in advance!
Barkeeper

[eronald]

Ricoh is a going japanese camera concern, so it's pretty obvious that if the 645Z sells, there will be a cascade of new lenses, adapters, accessories etc. and probably new bodies or tech backs dropping out of the mothership and homing in on niche markets. Japanese companies are really good at product proliferation once sales of the base product take off. 

One interesting question is whether the 645Z HD video will have some special "look" which will make it attractive for some productions.

Edmund

[danlandoni]

Focus points in a diagram here. http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/645z/feature/02.html

USB 3.0 tethering here. http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/645z/feature/05.html

[eronald]

This thing even has sensor auto-cleaning

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/645z/feature/03.html

A modern MF camera - what are we going to get next? a politician who cares about jobs?

I have a nasty suspicion that if the product is successful the price might go ... down.

Edmund

[DanielStone]

To me, it seems pretty straightforward that you can buy (3) $8,500 Pentax 645Z cameras and still have some spare change left over vs. buying (1) IQ250 1-lens system...

That would leave you with (2) extra backup bodies, just in case you need to service one. Heck, you'd still have a backup body if you sent in the first, leaving you with "only 2"...

Heck, buy 2 bodies, so you have a backup, and you won't have to wait that ~24-48hr period for your "loaner" body to arrive on location

Is it just me that the above seems logical? I'm interested in checking this camera out when it finally launches. I prefer to shoot film, but now traveling for work, digital is a much more competent choice due to lack of labs and time to get things processed. I really like the Pentax 645NII system, just wish this 645Z took a traditional screw-in cable release like the 645NII does...

-Dan

[eronald]

I think the other shoe is about to drop, people are going to realize that price is irrelevant, if you want a crop-MF SLR then the Pentax is actually the most modern camera of the bunch now on sale. It's a bit like comparing an old prestige hotel with a modern hotel block - marble staircases and high ceilings are great, but sometimes you want airconditioning and a working wifi connection.  

Edmund

To me, it seems pretty straightforward that you can buy (3) $8,500 Pentax 645Z cameras and still have some spare change left over vs. buying (1) IQ250 1-lens system...

That would leave you with (2) extra backup bodies, just in case you need to service one. Heck, you'd still have a backup body if you sent in the first, leaving you with "only 2"...

Heck, buy 2 bodies, so you have a backup, and you won't have to wait that ~24-48hr period for your "loaner" body to arrive on location

Is it just me that the above seems logical? I'm interested in checking this camera out when it finally launches. I prefer to shoot film, but now traveling for work, digital is a much more competent choice due to lack of labs and time to get things processed. I really like the Pentax 645NII system, just wish this 645Z took a traditional screw-in cable release like the 645NII does...

-Dan

[MrSmith]

looking at the Pentax/Ricoh link it looks like they are taking this camera seriously and putting some weight behind it. the pic of the photographer in the studio tethered to a computer and looking at his Eizo screen was exactly what i wanted to see not just example pics of pagodas and cherry blossom to satisfy the home market.
some very impressive features too like the multi zone AF, the tilting screen, focus peaking etc.
i look at this camera and think that it should be £30k and the phase model with it’s archaic camera body and glacial rate of improvements that should be £8k
i wonder which U.K. rental house cracks first? Pro-center (H/Blad owned) have some phase kit but are unlikely to go there and pear tree (leaf) probably not either but it wouldn’t surprise me to see calumet dip their toe in the water

[tsjanik]

....................... I really like the Pentax 645NII system, just wish this 645Z took a traditional screw-in cable release like the 645NII does...

-Dan

Dan,

Get this for $25US; it's better than a cable release.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/688838-REG/Pentax_39892_Waterproof_Infrared_Remote_Control.html

[eronald]

looking at the Pentax/Ricoh link it looks like they are taking this camera seriously and putting some weight behind it. the pic of the photographer in the studio tethered to a computer and looking at his Eizo screen was exactly what i wanted to see not just example pics of pagodas and cherry blossom to satisfy the home market.
some very impressive features too like the multi zone AF, the tilting screen, focus peaking etc.
i look at this camera and think that it should be £30k and the phase model with it’s archaic camera body and glacial rate of improvements that should be £8k
i wonder which U.K. rental house cracks first? Pro-center (H/Blad owned) have some phase kit but are unlikely to go there and pear tree (leaf) probably not either but it wouldn’t surprise me to see calumet dip their toe in the water

My forecast is that in a year's time Phase will be out of the general market, and selling well to ... industrial, airplane survey and institutional users, who neither need nor want SLR features.

Edmund

[MrSmith]

i just priced the body, 45mm 2:8, short zoom (35-55?) 75mm, 120mm macro and the 150 2:8 and it came to £10,000  (ex vat)
 

[wolfbellw.]

I never regretted selling my Phase/Leaf stuff about a year ago and getting a D800 with a couple of fine lenses instead.
MF became history for me - after roughly 20 years of working with this format. Too many disadvantages, too high costs, 4 weeks for a little service (sensor adjustment that has to be done in Israel) that cost me almost 800 Euro, connection problems...
Now i'm getting tempted again. Sounds like a great new camera.
the only thing i'm missing are leaf shutter lenses.
and: are the available lenses up to the sensor?

[tsjanik]

This thing even has sensor auto-cleaning

http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/645z/feature/03.html

.........
Edmund

Edmund,

It works too.  I've had the 645D for 3.5 years and it's used mostly outside.  I have never had to clean the sensor, it cleans itself (it will also map out bad pixels).

Tom

[Dale_Cotton2]

Re: the AF coverage on the 645Z

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53499870

-- this is from a Pentax US employee.

The same AF array component from their latest APS-C dSLR is used in the 645Z, so the coverage is pretty much crowed into the centre area.

The Imaging-Resource coverage may also be of interest:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53499870