Pentax 645Z

[tsjanik]

Images *from* the camera might be more interesting than images *of* the camera

Edmund

I agree.  I must say I'm skeptical of the utility of ISO 200k, but if even 6400 is usable, it is of considerable value.
It's clear from the specs that Pentax has incorporated much from the K-3 and that's a good thing.

Tom

[eronald]

You sure? This is an MFD thread!

Best regards
Erik

It's the weekend - the dealers are away, the mice can play

Edmund

[eronald]

I'm struggling to think of an uglier camera.

On a more positive note I'm struggling to think of a better value camera.

Keith, that's a really nice website homepage you have there.
Don't struggle too much

Edmund

[Telecaster]

I use my 645D mostly on a tripod at ISO 100 so higher sensitivities don't make much difference to me. If I need handholding in low-ish light I use a different camera. But given all the other stuff that comes along with ISO whateveritis I certainly wouldn't object to it.

(Note: the 645D can do a credible EI 3200 via underexposing a stop at ISO 1600 & then pushing in post.)

As for looks: I find all blob cameras—meaning most current SLRs—to be, shall we say, rather homely. But if they deliver the goods it hardly matters.

I'm rooting for Ricoh to do well with this camera. The more good players in the game the better.

-Dave-

[BernardLanguillier]

I'm struggling to think of an uglier camera.

I guess it is fortunate that the looks of a the camera have no influence whatsoever on its ability to fullfill its core mission.

Now, it is true that this core mission, capturing images, sometimes seems to rank low in the priorities of some camera byuers.

Cheers,
Bernard

[eronald]

I guess it is fortunate that the looks of a the camera have no influence whatsoever on its ability to fullfill its core mission.

Now, it is true that this core mission, capturing images, sometimes seems to rank low in the priorities of some camera byuers.

Cheers,
Bernard

The core mission of a camera is to sell. Itself.

Edmund

[Joe Towner]

I'm excited to see what is released.  On a related note I'm playing with the IQ250, doing a side by side with my H4D-50, so 50mp verses 50mp.  As much as I love the Phase One, under 10K for a 50mp camera!?!  Plus B&H seems to have gone wild with the Pentax 645 lenses - lots of options.

[eronald]

I'm excited to see what is released.  On a related note I'm playing with the IQ250, doing a side by side with my H4D-50, so 50mp verses 50mp.  As much as I love the Phase One, under 10K for a 50mp camera!?!  Plus B&H seems to have gone wild with the Pentax 645 lenses - lots of options.

Joe,

 what are your impressions in the side by side?

Edmund

[BJL]

Specification for the 645Z have appeared on the German site:

http://www.ricoh-imaging.de/de/mittelformatkameras/technische-details/645D.html

Key features (for me anyway):

51 MP
Live view with focus peaking
3 fps

Oh and ISO 100-204,800!!?

If that site is correct, also HD video (and 4K time lapse video)

[tsjanik]

The core mission of a camera is to sell. Itself.

Edmund

True enough for the accountants, but sometimes the mission of the designers is to make the best possible product (which should sell itself).

The 645D(Z) is not nearly as attractive as its predecessor the 645N; it is wider and less angular (something like aging), but it I've learned to like its appearance.

Tom

[eronald]

Pentax 645Z Full specs are out.

Edmund

[Paul2660]

It will be interesting if it's ever published/printed that the chip is exactly the same as Phase One/Hassi are using.  However the range to 208K does not really surprise me. 

1.  Sony is currently tearing up the video market with the A7s announcement, only 12MP, but video up to 400K I believe, and so far the demo videos I have seen are impressive indeed on the new A7z, obviously Sony knows how to get to a higher ISO range. 

2.  Back in Feb, 2014, Alpa did a quick blog post on the IQ250, which showed the back in live view mode in total darkness.  Basically the view view was able to pull the night scene into daylight, enough to allow easy focus, and there was not a lot of noise (like Nikon has in low light with live view on the D800). 

Phase One may have chosen for internal reasons to govern the max ISO down in the IQ250 for now and they may push it in the future.  If they are using the same chip as in the Pentax, then there is alot of more room possibly.  However their ability to show a totally night scene in basically daytime, tells me the IQ250 may have the same reach. 

You can read the Alpa blog here:
http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2014/IQ250-review1

At the very bottom of the blog article.

Paul

[Telecaster]

If Pentax's higher "ISOs" compared with the IQ250 are mathematically derived rather than via analog gain, which is almost surely the case at least in part, folks owning/using the latter should be able to underexpose & then match the former by pushing in post (assuming a RAW processor with quality pushing algorithms). I tend to do this sort of thing as a matter of course when putting new (to me) cameras through their paces.

-Dave-

[BJL]

If Pentax's higher "ISOs" compared with the IQ250 are mathematically derived rather than via analog gain, which is almost surely the case at least in part, folks owning/using the latter should be able to underexpose & then match the former by pushing in post (assuming a RAW processor with quality pushing algorithms). I tend to do this sort of thing as a matter of course when putting new (to me) cameras through their paces.

-Dave-

Agreed: the evidence on recent Sony sensors strongly indicates that using the camera set to EI=409,600 will give about the same results as using it with a far lower IE like 6400 (six stops lower) at the same shutter speed and aperture on the same scene, and then push-processing ... and a push in the digital domain is a very simple algorithm: a bit shift. It also seems very unlikely that the analog gain on the Sony sensor goes anywhere near as high as 409,600, and more likely stops at 6400 or below, so what is done in the Pentax 645Z (and in the Nikon D4s) at high ISO is almost certainly just bit-shifting done in-camera, or in raw->JPEG conversion based on a flag in the raw file: a convenience to avoid one step in post-processing, and to make reviews on the rear LCD more useful.

One guess is that EI=6400 is the limit of analog gain, and only Pentax has decided to add some "bit shifting" higher ISO options with this 44x33mm sensor.

I imagine that the upper limit of analog gain before digital bit-shifting takes over can be worked out by analyzing a  raw level histogram: AFAIK, gaps open up between the numerical raw levels once digital ISO speed pushing is done, and the size of the gaps reveals the number of stops of digital pushing, with S stops of push giving gaps of 2^S levels.

[bcroslin]

Has there been any announcement on tethering? The camera looks fantastic but it's not going to be taken seriously if it can't tether.

[BJL]

Has there been any announcement on tethering? The camera looks fantastic but it's not going to be taken seriously if it can't tether.

The allegedly leaked specs say that it will support the Pentax FluCard for wireless remote control, as with Pentax K3, and the  (rumored) dual SD slots seem a good fit for this.
For a review of how that works with the K3, see http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8850365696/pentax-o-fc1-flucard-the-wireless-details

[MrSmith]

the trouble with a jpeg only wireless tether solution is that its next to useless for critical work as you need to view raws with your selected profile/look/sharpening and know how much highlight/shadow leeway you have.

according to the specs 'Camera Utility 5 for camera control from the computer’ will enable you to connect to the camera from a computer. no idea how stable/usable that is?

[Paul2660]

the trouble with a jpeg only wireless tether solution is that its next to useless for critical work as you need to view raws with your selected profile/look/sharpening and know how much highlight/shadow leeway you have.

according to the specs 'Camera Utility 5 for camera control from the computer’ will enable you to connect to the camera from a computer. no idea how stable/usable that is?

+1

I base this on the current Phase One Capture Pilot/wireless solution.  Just not enough data, can't tell good focus info at 100% view, moving around the preview file takes wayyyy to long to repaint the image, not to mention connection a bit flakey at times. 

Where as tethering, via USB3 can give much more information, faster, and it's easier to determine fine focus.  See Ken Doo's blog on this. 
http://kendoophotography.wordpress.com/

The 645Z has a USB3 port per the spec's on Photo rumor, however no mention of software support, either LR or Capture One, I don't expect to see it from the later.

Paul

[BJL]

the trouble with a jpeg only wireless tether solution is that its next to useless for critical work as you need to view raws with your selected profile/look/sharpening and know how much highlight/shadow leeway you have.

according to the specs 'Camera Utility 5 for camera control from the computer’ will enable you to connect to the camera from a computer. no idea how stable/usable that is?

Yes that part at http://photorumors.com/2014/04/12/pentax-645z-detailed-specifications/ about Camera Utility in

Tripping functions   
...
- Flucard for wireless camera control and image transmission (Optional)
- Camera Utility 5 for camera control from the computer (Optional)

could be promising.

[BernardLanguillier]

It's official:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/04/15/ricoh-announces-medium-format-pentax-645z?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=news-list&utm_medium=text&ref=title_0_0

To be available in the later half of June for 8,500 US$. Street price in Japan looks like it is going to be around 775,000 Yen at launch.

All the other rumors were true.

Cheers,
Bernard