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Author Topic: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.  (Read 44678 times)

PhotoEcosse

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #160 on: December 16, 2013, 03:35:52 am »

What Adobe really need to do urgently is develop Lightroom as a genuine perpetual front end to Photoshop CS6.

Then those of us who are genuine amateurs would only need to upgrade LR every couple of years to stay current in terms of cameras, lenses, LR enhancements and continue to use our existing CS6 installations (perhaps decreasingly) for the parts that LR does not yet reach.

Just one wee problem - Adobe might not make so much money so, while the company continues to place profits ahead of customer satisfaction, such a scenario may be unlikely.
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Simon Garrett

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #161 on: December 16, 2013, 03:47:59 am »

What Adobe really need to do urgently is develop Lightroom as a genuine perpetual front end to Photoshop CS6.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but can you expand a bit?  In what way is Lightroom not a "genuine perpetual front end to Photoshop CS6" now?

Then those of us who are genuine amateurs would only need to upgrade LR every couple of years to stay current in terms of cameras, lenses, LR enhancements and continue to use our existing CS6 installations (perhaps decreasingly) for the parts that LR does not yet reach.
Well, I think I'm a "genuine amateur" but I upgrade LR every time, as significant new features are added to most updates.  And the update price is relatively low.  

Just one wee problem - Adobe might not make so much money so, while the company continues to place profits ahead of customer satisfaction, such a scenario may be unlikely.
All companies put profits ahead of customer satisfaction.  That's their function.  A company's (only) role is to make a return on the investment of the shareholders while operating within the law.  To do that they make money (usually) out of some trading function, which means that some degree of customer satisfaction is necessary, or in any market where customers have a choice they'll go some place else.  But a properly functioning company creates only as much customer satisfaction as is necessary to maximise return on investment.  

Sorry if that's patronising, but I think sometimes people expect companies to be too nice.  
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jrsforums

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #162 on: December 16, 2013, 10:37:52 am »

I have always looked at "amateur" from it's Latin root of " for the love of it".  I don't know how "genuine" enhances that :-)

What one buys or upgrades is a personal workflow and economic decision.  Mine has always been to remain current. 

While I understand the concerns (and have voiced them) over Adobe's Photographer Package ($9.99), I do not believe Adobe is financially stupid.  If, in the future, they drastically raise the price or make Lightroom rental only, it will drive their customers away and put them in a "death spiral".  While I may not have much faith in people(management), I do in economics and profit motive :-)

John
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PhotoEcosse

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #163 on: December 16, 2013, 11:04:26 am »



Sorry if that's patronising, but I think sometimes people expect companies to be too nice.  

I am guessing that you are one of our much-valued and respected "transatlantic cousins", Simon. But, here in UK, it is a well-established and frequently proven business principle that the company that carefully researches customer needs - and then sets out to accurately meet those needs - will, in the long term, be the most successful. Unfortunately there are odd exceptions, particularly in oligopolistic situations such as power suppliers, but, generally in a mature economy, paying rather more attention to customers than is currently evident with Adobe does pay dividends (pun intended).

Quote
I have always looked at "amateur" from it's Latin root of " for the love of it".  I don't know how "genuine" enhances that :-)

There are many "faux amateurs" out there, John. By genuine I simply meant those of us who try to keep our hobby completely free of the influence of money-earning. That's not, in any way, to denigrate those who try to make a shilling or two on the side - merely to suggest that their criteria for assessing the value and cost-effectiveness of software packages might be somewhat different from ours.
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Some Guy

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #164 on: December 16, 2013, 11:10:55 am »

....
While I understand the concerns (and have voiced them) over Adobe's Photographer Package ($9.99), I do not believe Adobe is financially stupid.  If, in the future, they drastically raise the price or make Lightroom rental only, it will drive their customers away and put them in a "death spiral"....

John

I suspect they will do as every other company does once they raise the price, they'll offer another "Intro offer" for 'new subscribers' while those who are still in the contract are stuck with the higher price.  At some point people will bail, and then the offers to "Come back for $9.99/mo." will start all over with a contract that balloons and subsidizes the first year intro's commitment - or an expensive price to opt out of the contract.  Think cable, satellite, and cell services ongoing plans and offers.

Just need good bait...

What would be interesting if no one signed on for this subscription, price-hikes, and contract.  Then what would they do?  Actually, if Adobe priced PS to put in into everyone's home for $20, might shut down piracy and move more product as well.  This model may even perpetuate piracy worse than before - if it already hasn't been cracked since they also fear their code got stolen along with the credit cards.

Was interesting to read the CEO's "Everything is wonderful" comments to the shareholders in one link above, and then the second link one from Marketwatch showed the decline with marketing (their scheme) costing them serious cash.  I don't know, but if they only have 1+ million subscribers in the past 9 months, that's a far cry from the 38-100 million credit cards lost.

SG
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #165 on: December 16, 2013, 11:43:25 am »

Sorry if that's patronising, but I think sometimes people expect companies to be too nice.

Some companies are nice ..., and benefit all stakeholders (more balanced than lopsided).

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #166 on: December 16, 2013, 12:06:48 pm »

Quote
All companies put profits ahead of customer satisfaction.  That's their function. 


I wouldn't want you to be my doctor.  If a company does not satisfy their customers, they soon will have neither customers or profit.

Isaac

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #167 on: December 16, 2013, 01:28:57 pm »

... a well-established and frequently proven business principle that the company that carefully researches customer needs - and then sets out to accurately meet those needs - will, in the long term, be the most successful.

Different customers are not equally profitable.

Perhaps the enterprise customers bring a lot more profit to Adobe.
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chez

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #168 on: December 16, 2013, 02:11:20 pm »

I suspect they will do as every other company does once they raise the price, they'll offer another "Intro offer" for 'new subscribers' while those who are still in the contract are stuck with the higher price.  At some point people will bail, and then the offers to "Come back for $9.99/mo." will start all over with a contract that balloons and subsidizes the first year intro's commitment - or an expensive price to opt out of the contract.  Think cable, satellite, and cell services ongoing plans and offers.

Just need good bait...

What would be interesting if no one signed on for this subscription, price-hikes, and contract.  Then what would they do?  Actually, if Adobe priced PS to put in into everyone's home for $20, might shut down piracy and move more product as well.  This model may even perpetuate piracy worse than before - if it already hasn't been cracked since they also fear their code got stolen along with the credit cards.

Was interesting to read the CEO's "Everything is wonderful" comments to the shareholders in one link above, and then the second link one from Marketwatch showed the decline with marketing (their scheme) costing them serious cash.  I don't know, but if they only have 1+ million subscribers in the past 9 months, that's a far cry from the 38-100 million credit cards lost.

SG


Unfortunately, some of us actually have income to be made from our photography so we don't have time to play games with Adobe. Right now, its a great deal for $9.99 a month. If Adobe chooses to raise their monthly rate to a point that it makes it financially not feasible, I'll look at alternatives. For now, I don't see the need for an alternative.
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chez

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #169 on: December 16, 2013, 02:13:32 pm »

Some companies are nice ..., and benefit all stakeholders (more balanced than lopsided).

Cheers,
Bart

Some...but not many. I bet every company out there has a pissed off set of customers. Take Apple for instance, probably one of the most successful companies today yet there is a huge following of Apple haters. The same for Microsoft, Adobe, GM...you name it, there are haters.

Do you know of such a company that cherishes their customers more than their shareholders?
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #170 on: December 16, 2013, 02:18:18 pm »

Do you know of such a company that cherishes their customers more than their shareholders?

There is no conflict between customers and shareholders, at least in the long run. A company's duty, as has been pointed out, is to make money for the people or institutions who/which own it. Any company achieves that function best by pleasing its customers, who provide its money.

Companies which fail to grasp this fact, and lean too far in either direction, go bust. Capitalism: it really is that simple.

Jeremy

(yes, yes, state intervention, banks, huge building societies, etc, excepted: but they're excepted from capitalism, too)
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Isaac

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #171 on: December 16, 2013, 02:22:22 pm »

I wouldn't want you to be my doctor.

If you want to make an analogy with US style for-profit healthcare; it would be as-if we were charged separately each time we cropped the photo or adjusted the exposure, but only discovered how much we were being charged a month later when we were billed -- and it just so happened that the photoshop "doctors" had recommended more-profitable procedures more often than equally effective less-profitable procedures.

Way way off topic -- Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us
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kers

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #172 on: December 16, 2013, 02:37:24 pm »

At the moment Adobe says that Lightroom will not be part of CC...
At the moment the price for Photoshop CC and Lightroom5 is 10$ ( 13 €) a month...

Abobe has said that if you go for the 10$ offer that combination will exist now and in the future if you stay on the train.- let us hope they can be trusted on this and that Lightroom will not be part of CC
But I would not suprise me if next year the price will rise to 15$ .....etc etc.
In using the 10$ offer you will be dependent on Adobe in two ways- your Lightroom catalogue and the possible CC-psd files that cannot be opened in older versions.
It will take some hard work to make your files suited for different software if you want to leave Adobe.
Also i do not read about any real improvement in photoshop CC; Is the Lightroom5/photoshopCC-ACR Raw engine significantly better? than LR4?

So I will stick to Photoshop CS6 ( already payed - perpetual license) and maybe use lightroom5 - standalone ( 90 euro -perpetual license) only if the Raw engine suits me better.
Since there is not much new in Photoshop i save the 1e year   13*12-90= 66 €
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Pieter Kers
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jrsforums

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #173 on: December 16, 2013, 03:04:49 pm »

Some...but not many. I bet every company out there has a pissed off set of customers. Take Apple for instance, probably one of the most successful companies today yet there is a huge following of Apple haters. The same for Microsoft, Adobe, GM...you name it, there are haters.

You know what they say, if you make a decision and half the people are unhappy and half are happy, you got it right.
Quote

Do you know of such a company that cherishes their customers more than their shareholders?

In the USA, businesses have a legal fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
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John

chez

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #174 on: December 16, 2013, 04:21:20 pm »

There is no conflict between customers and shareholders, at least in the long run. A company's duty, as has been pointed out, is to make money for the people or institutions who/which own it. Any company achieves that function best by pleasing its customers, who provide its money.

Companies which fail to grasp this fact, and lean too far in either direction, go bust. Capitalism: it really is that simple.

Jeremy

(yes, yes, state intervention, banks, huge building societies, etc, excepted: but they're excepted from capitalism, too)

Yes, but does the company strive to satisfy every customer and at what expense. I think most companies strive to maximize revenue and profits by satisfying the customer base that maximizes those aspects. A company thst caters to everyone satisfies no one.

Walmart does not attempt to be a high end fashion store and high end fashion customers shun Walmart. Does this mean Walmart is going belly up...far from it.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #175 on: December 16, 2013, 04:47:12 pm »

You know what they say, if you make a decision and half the people are unhappy and half are happy, you got it right.

I guess it was tongue in cheek, but that line of thought is IMHO one of the major problem of our societies.

Putting decisiveness over rightness in decision making is manly but stupid.

It is always better to delay decision making rather than taking the wrong decision quickly.

Cheers,
Bernard

Isaac

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #176 on: December 16, 2013, 05:14:53 pm »

It is always better to delay decision making rather than taking the wrong decision quickly.

No, it depends: the costs of making the wrong decision may be less than the costs of delaying the decision -- fail fast can be an excellent tactic.
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jrsforums

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #177 on: December 16, 2013, 05:21:00 pm »

I guess it was tongue in cheek, but that line of thought is IMHO one of the major problem of our societies.

Putting decisiveness over rightness in decision making is manly but stupid.

It is always better to delay decision making rather than taking the wrong decision quickly.

Cheers,
Bernard


It was tongue in cheek.  However sometimes it is just differing opinions, not a matter of righteousness.  Or, it is a matter of "trade offs" and the only way to move forward is to only help some, while you really want to help all

When give the opportunity...and lack of sufficient information...it is better to delay and study more.  When you don't have the luxury of time someone need to make the call.

Frankly, this is all interesting, but I doubt little to do with the Adobe activities.

John
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John

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #178 on: December 16, 2013, 05:44:44 pm »

Frankly, this is all interesting, but I doubt little to do with the Adobe activities.

John,

Yep...

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: Photoshop CC & Lightroom 5 for €9.99 per month...12 month contract.
« Reply #179 on: December 16, 2013, 06:38:52 pm »

No, it depends: the costs of making the wrong decision may be less than the costs of delaying the decision -- fail fast can be an excellent tactic.

Totally agree. Paralysis by analysis could quicky make a company obsolete. Sometimes it is much better to make a decision, quickly discover it is not quite right, correct the plan and carry on.
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