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Author Topic: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way  (Read 60884 times)

bcooter

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2013, 12:34:19 pm »

Few people would think I'm sensitive, but maybe I just write too fast and too direct.

I don't dislike this camera, just don't get it and I've bit on the cool looking camera thing before with a Leica M8 and the olympus omd em5.

The Leica is great other than it's not reliable and it doesn't tether at all, the olympus is more than great, except it has the most overly complex digital interface in the world, short of the dmv.

And I'm not reacting to Nikon making this, they obviously see a place in the market, but it's just not my place, though I do think that 35mm digital cameras have become way too big and I don't dislike small cameras.

I guess what I am reacting to is the comments and articles on why put video in a still camera.  Video doesn't get in the way, just don't turn it on and I doubt it adds to the costs, probably lowers the cost because more people buy a camera that does more and volume always lowers prices.

Anyway . . .

I just want, like and need a camera that does what "I" need and like T says there are a lot of options out there.  I also know that my needs aren't everyone's so live and let live.

So far this is my second favorite camera


Because it does things I really need, though it is a single purpose camera.

This is my very favorite camera (and I think the least attractive)


But this gh3 is the most capable camera I've ever owned.  It's not perfect at stills or motion, but its very, very good at both and the news that gets me excited is Pana is coming out with a 4k 10 bit 422 motion camera with xlr inputs and at the same time a hopped up m43 still camera.

Panasonic will get my money and what I like about them is they don't seem to hobble their cameras as much as some other brands to up sell the next latest and greatest.

What I love about RED is they offer the complete system, from hardware, accessories to software.  They're expensive, but they're professional and they take their role very seriously.

I doubt it RED would ever make a Bolex looking camera to make people feel like their shooting a French art film.

To each his own and I respect everybody's right to buy what they like.   I was just trying to point out that at the end of a shooting day, what you get from this new nikon won't be a lick of difference from what you get from a D4 or a 1dsII, III, or IV.

Man, the toothpaste is way out of the tube, whether any of us like it or not.  

For fun you can go back in time, but for commerce it's full speed ahead and we're just starting to break into what is coming.

It doesn't take a fortune teller to know that someday somebody is going to have a camera, still, motion, or both that let you tap on an image retouch it, color it, wi-fi up in less time that it takes to start up a powerbook.

I assume we'll also be able to retouch and do film edits on an ipad device, probably in the grip truck or on a plane going home.

Real innovation is  coming and it's probably coming in motion and stills all at the same time.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 12:49:26 pm by bcooter »
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Isaac

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2013, 12:39:38 pm »

I'd consider the new Fuji's but they also don't tether, same with the Sony a7...

I've seen conflicting reports on tethering Sony a7. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2013, 01:41:19 pm »

I guess what I am reacting to is the comments and articles on why put video in a still camera.  Video doesn't get in the way, just don't turn it on and I doubt it adds to the costs, probably lowers the cost because more people buy a camera that does more and volume always lowers prices.
Better not read this poorly written article then or the thread about it with people wittering on about purity and other such nonsense.
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jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2013, 01:43:03 pm »

The robustness and tactile quality of these cameras is undeniable, to say nothing of the longevity, but they are primarily attractive antiques.
Handy doorstops or paper weights too but not as good at that as a digital lump from 3-4 years ago.  ;)
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bcooter

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2013, 02:22:39 pm »

Better not read this poorly written article then or the thread about it with people wittering on about purity and other such nonsense.

I glanced and mean glanced at it.

Don't get it, because the camera this guy wants exists, so whats the problem?

All it really looked like to me was a pitch for Alpa and a Phase Back, which is fine for some.

To each his own, but I think that Mark guy and me and me are in different professions.

IMO

BC
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TMARK

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2013, 02:58:07 pm »

I don't get it either.  If you don't want to use AF, video, metering, whatever, you don't have to.  It would make sense to say I don't want video because it uses too much power, and I want a light camera.  Or I don't want AF, I want a big bright VF with a nice ground glass screen, and to save weight and size.  Almost any camera can be used manually, and the big Nikon and big Canon, as well as the MF cameras, can be focused manually.  No one is focing anyone to shoot video, or go through teh video menus to get to a white balance adjustment.

I glanced and mean glanced at it.

Don't get it, because the camera this guy wants exists, so whats the problem?

All it really looked like to me was a pitch for Alpa and a Phase Back, which is fine for some.

To each his own, but I think that Mark guy and me and me are in different professions.

IMO

BC
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jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2013, 03:58:07 pm »

I glanced and mean glanced at it.

Don't get it, because the camera this guy wants exists, so whats the problem?
There is a problem with some cameras certainly, but it's not due to new features but bad design. But Mark puts the blame on the wrong thing missing the actual point entirely.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2013, 07:56:17 pm »

User experience is quickly becoming the #1 selection criteria for gear in mature markets like advanced cameras.

It is precisely because all cameras now deliver sufficient levels of quality that people look for something else and buy the Fujis and the Olympus.

The Nikon FD will be a screaming success because it will probably deliver on this in ways that connect with the cameras many of us used many years ago. It is, IMHO, irresistible.

Video is IMHO totally irrelevant for many photographers and those who care about video are clearly not the target of this camera.

I find it pretty funny that Canon and Nikon are often criticized for being the Toyota of camera manufacturers but also get some blame when they come up with extremely targeted products like the Nikon 1 series and this new FD. Those are not generalist cameras, they target a well identified segment.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 07:59:45 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2013, 09:59:14 pm »

User experience is quickly becoming the #1 selection criteria for gear in mature markets like advanced cameras.
The Nikon FD will be a screaming success because it will probably deliver on this in ways that connect with the cameras many of us used many years ago. It is, IMHO, irresistible.
Why? Are Nikon suddenly easy to use as I've always found them quite opaque in use and when I've had to use them, I usually need to ask how to do something quite basic and the Nikon user/Nikon staff have also had to scratch their heads too.



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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2013, 10:46:14 pm »

Why? Are Nikon suddenly easy to use as I've always found them quite opaque in use and when I've had to use them, I usually need to ask how to do something quite basic and the Nikon user/Nikon staff have also had to scratch their heads too.

IMHO, the Nikon FD is targeting those photographers with a long history of using Nikon film bodies. That's the user experience I am talking about.

You don't like Nikon ergonomics? Why bother spending time commenting on this release?

Cheers,
Bernard

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2013, 02:16:13 am »

Hi,

Much discussion about a camera nobody has seen? Or is there a picture showing it?

Best regards
Erik
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jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2013, 07:07:34 am »

IMHO, the Nikon FD is targeting those photographers with a long history of using Nikon film bodies. That's the user experience I am talking about.

You don't like Nikon ergonomics? Why bother spending time commenting on this release?
I like small cameras and I like FF, which is the main thrust of this topic. Besides Nikon can do with getting as many new users as possible, chasing a shrinking subset of users is not wise.
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telyt

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2013, 12:53:22 pm »

I don't get it either.

Clearly.

  If you don't want to use AF, video, metering, whatever, you don't have to....  Almost any camera can be used manually, and the big Nikon and big Canon, as well as the MF cameras, can be focused manually.

"Can be focussed manually" is not the same as "good at focussing manually".  And when one of the unwanted features is accidentally activated and the camera doesn't behave as expected I waste time and lose photo opportunities trying to figure out what feature was activated, how to disable it and how to prevent it from happening again.
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Isaac

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2013, 01:07:00 pm »

And when one of the unwanted features is accidentally activated and the camera doesn't behave as expected I waste time and lose photo opportunities trying to figure out what feature was activated, how to disable it and how to prevent it from happening again.

If you want to "remove" a button, use duct tape (the texture difference should be enough to stop you pressing).

If you really want to "remove" a button, use superglue (iirc that's how the military "remove" USB ports from commodity computers).
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Hulyss

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2013, 01:36:13 pm »

If you want to "remove" a button, use duct tape (the texture difference should be enough to stop you pressing).

If you really want to "remove" a button, use superglue (iirc that's how the military "remove" USB ports from commodity computers).

Superglue AND chewing gum ;)
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Kind Regards -  Hulyss Bowman | hulyssbowman.com |

jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2013, 01:49:40 pm »

"Can be focussed manually" is not the same as "good at focussing manually".
Manual focusing on AF cameras is not exactly wonderful it has to be said. But hey EVFs should help with that particularly with fast lenses. 

 
And when one of the unwanted features is accidentally activated and the camera doesn't behave as expected I waste time and lose photo opportunities trying to figure out what feature was activated, how to disable it and how to prevent it from happening again.
If you want to "remove" a button, use duct tape (the texture difference should be enough to stop you pressing).
If you really want to "remove" a button, use superglue (iirc that's how the military "remove" USB ports from commodity computers).
Or practice with your camera, so you know how it works.  ;D
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TMARK

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2013, 02:27:04 pm »

Agree on the mf issue, although the BIG Canon and Nikon are fine, not great, just fine.  My hope is that this Nikon will address this issue.

As to your other point, I still don't get it.  I've used everything from ancient Linhofs to Leica's and many flavor of 35mm camera in very high pressured commercial environments.  I figure out what the problems is or could potentially be before I am face to face with a "photographic opportunity", or in my case a gaggle of clients.  I familiarize myself with how the thing works before any production starts, otherwise I won't use it.  When I was a photo J I knew the cameras inside and out before I went on a job.  I used tape where needed, electrical tape because it doesn't leave a residue.  Build the muscle memory and anything is simple.  Even playing the piano.

I can say that there are very few cameras I've used that have deal breaker ergonomic issues.  The X100 is one due to AF point selection being on the wrong side of the camera (remidied in the X100s), and the RX1/Cool Pix A/Ricoh GR lack of a viewfinder. 

Clearly.

"Can be focussed manually" is not the same as "good at focussing manually".  And when one of the unwanted features is accidentally activated and the camera doesn't behave as expected I waste time and lose photo opportunities trying to figure out what feature was activated, how to disable it and how to prevent it from happening again.
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telyt

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2013, 02:38:36 pm »

 If you want to "remove" a button, use duct tape (the texture difference should be enough to stop you pressing).

The switch in question also turns the camera on or off.

Quote
Or practice with your camera, so you know how it works.  ;D

Hmmmmm... I guess 8 years of practice isn't enough.

I like small cameras and I like FF, which is the main thrust of this topic. Besides Nikon can do with getting as many new users as possible, chasing a shrinking subset of users is not wise.

It's a good strategy if it's a subset of their production and doesn't restrict the company's production of mainstream cameras.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 02:42:21 pm by wildlightphoto »
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Isaac

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2013, 02:58:24 pm »

The switch in question also turns the camera on or off.

Wow! Which camera does that?
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2013, 03:49:09 pm »

Hi,

A good user interface would be helpful in avoiding mistakes. But, yes I have missed opportunities quite a few times because I had presets for shooting on tripod, when fast action was needed. I can agree that it is easier to be in control with a totally manual camera. I have both Pentax 67 and a Hasselblad 555ELD in addition to my Sony Alphas, so I know both worlds.

Best regards
Erik


Clearly.

"Can be focussed manually" is not the same as "good at focussing manually".  And when one of the unwanted features is accidentally activated and the camera doesn't behave as expected I waste time and lose photo opportunities trying to figure out what feature was activated, how to disable it and how to prevent it from happening again.
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Erik Kaffehr
 
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