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Author Topic: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way  (Read 60885 times)

Hulyss

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Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« on: October 21, 2013, 05:16:16 am »

Hello,

Some of you may already know what is rumoured since yesterday : Nikon will announce it soon. Rumor say it is 90% accurate.


    ¤ Standard F-mount
    ¤ SD memory card
    ¤ 2016-pixel RGB image sensor
    ¤ 9-cell framing grid display
    ¤ 3D color matrix metering II
    ¤ Native ISO range: 100-12,800 (incl. ISO 50 and ISO 108,200)
    ¤ 5.5 fps for up to 100 shots
    ¤ 3.2" LCD screen
    ¤ Battery:EN-EL14
    ¤ Pentaprism viewfinder (meaning the camera will not be mirrorless)
    ¤ The camera will meter even with non-AI lenses down to full aperture
    ¤ The camera will ship with a new special edition Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G lens to match the look/design of the body
    ¤ The camera will have physical controls and excellent build quality (which explains the 765g weight)
    ¤ Expeed 3 processor
    ¤ Same sensor as in the Nikon D4
    ¤ Nikon calls it a "hybrid" camera - not sure what exactly they mean with that
    ¤ The announcement most likely will take place in the next 1-3 weeks

If shutter is 1/8000 or ala V1 ... I'm in.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 05:21:41 am by Hulyss »
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2013, 06:52:57 am »

That's interesting. If it is the size of the FM/FM2, I want one.

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2013, 11:43:13 am »

Seems like a smart move, if it materializes. We go back to having FF AF cameras and FF manual focus cameras from Nikon?

Chairman Bill

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 12:47:37 pm »

I suspect that if the rumour has any truth to it, it'll be AF, just size-wise like the FM/FM2/FE/FE2 etc

jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 01:18:06 pm »

It's about time FF DSLRs became the same size as the old 35mm cameras. I'm fed up with carrying around a huge lump of metal that's about the same size as my old 6x7 Pentax and which has a viewfinder smaller than my OM cameras despite the bulk.
I'm very taken by the new OMDs and was considering buying one and then Sony made their dinky FF announcement and now Nikon are joining in. I'm hoping Canon finally get their arse into gear and start to innovate again or they'll be losing a lot of customers.
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2013, 01:40:25 pm »

Focusing will be interesting - split-image, or if AF, multiple points. If the latter, I just hope it isn't a stupid set-up like the D600/10, with multiple poiints all clustered together in the centre. I'd like focus points right out to the edge of the screen please

Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 02:01:08 pm »

I don't grab whats so thrilling about this announcement.
A light EVF mirrorless would be another story, but another DSLR?
Okay - getting a D4 sensor for cheap would be great, but apart from that?

TMARK

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2013, 02:07:40 pm »

A small real camera with a great sensor, not a cigarette case with a lens stuck on it, and an optical VF, is just my speed.  When I was a photo journalist I used a pair of F4s, an FM2 and an M6.  With my D800, this new Nikon and my M9, I'm ALMOST back to where I was in 1992. I say almost because the VF of the D800 is leagues below the F4 finder.  Some thing this progress.

I don't grab whats so thrilling about this announcement.
A light EVF mirrorless would be another story, but another DSLR?
Okay - getting a D4 sensor for cheap would be great, but apart from that?
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jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2013, 03:12:26 pm »

I don't grab whats so thrilling about this announcement.
A light EVF mirrorless would be another story, but another DSLR?
Okay - getting a D4 sensor for cheap would be great, but apart from that?
Because it's what a lot of people want from a camera.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 04:05:00 pm by jjj »
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Telecaster

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2013, 04:20:49 pm »

Accurate VF manual focus...I'm interested. Otherwise...nope.

-Dave-
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barryfitzgerald

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 05:24:39 am »

I don't grab whats so thrilling about this announcement.
A light EVF mirrorless would be another story, but another DSLR?
Okay - getting a D4 sensor for cheap would be great, but apart from that?

Not everyone is crazy about mirror less, it's not as if you are short of options recently either.
You can't beat a really good pentaprism viewfinder for absolute clarity
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 05:47:32 am »

This camera is likely to be a smashing hit!

The request for a FE2 digital has been around for years.

Let Prius owners buy their EVFs and real man get this baby! :)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 08:27:31 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2013, 08:13:54 am »

Not everyone is crazy about mirror less, it's not as if you are short of options recently either.
You can't beat a really good pentaprism viewfinder for absolute clarity
On the other hand you can't beat an EVF for showing where the focus actually is when shooting wide open with lenses faster than 2.8.
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joneil

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2013, 08:31:00 am »

This is the part that got me:

Pentaprism viewfinder (meaning the camera will not be mirrorless)

  So, full size sensor, NOT mirror less, does that really make this a "compact camera"?   Does that mean we have to move this thread now to another spot on the board?  Maybe they will need to make a whole new category on this forum?  :)

  You can read the whole thing here for yourself at:
http://nikonrumors.com/2013/10/21/the-upcoming-nikon-retro-full-frame-camera-will-not-have-video-possible-announcement-on-november-6th.aspx/#more-65670

    So i don't know what we are looking at.  Sounds cool though - fully compatable with all Nikkor lenses (even non-Ai), full FX sensor, supposed to be built like a tank.  Depending on price, got me sold already.
:)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 08:33:43 am by joneil »
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jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2013, 09:11:16 am »

This is the part that got me:

Pentaprism viewfinder (meaning the camera will not be mirrorless)

  So, full size sensor, NOT mirror less, does that really make this a "compact camera"?   Does that mean we have to move this thread now to another spot on the board?  Maybe they will need to make a whole new category on this forum?  :)
Good point. Though my old film OMs are certainly very compact and a digital version of those would be amazing. The new OMDs don't quite count because as nice as they are and they do echo the old OMs they are still not FF.

Not including video!  ???  That seems either incorrect, spiteful or dumb. Hopefully the former.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 09:13:23 am by jjj »
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Chairman Bill

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2013, 09:39:47 am »

It's just a thought, but given that the lens suggested to accompany the new camera is a G lens, it won't have an aperture ring. Wouldn't it be nice if Nikon placed one around the mount, like Olympus used to do with the shutter control on the OM1/2 etc? This would echo the old manual focus cameras, so adding to the retro feel, whilst maintaining compatibility with the new G lenses (which come sans aperture rings). This would also shift the sensor-lens distance, which might allow for the slimmer body that an FM/FE form would suggest. With a traditional shutter control on the top-plate, it would indeed handle much like the older Nikons.

jjj

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2013, 09:49:50 am »

It's just a thought, but given that the lens suggested to accompany the new camera is a G lens, it won't have an aperture ring. Wouldn't it be nice if Nikon placed one around the mount, like Olympus used to do with the shutter control on the OM1/2 etc? This would echo the old manual focus cameras, so adding to the retro feel, whilst maintaining compatibility with the new G lenses (which come sans aperture rings).
After reading this thread, I was just looking at my old OMs and was thinking that a control function like the shutter around base of lens is a much under-utilised design in DSLR type cameras. Though several compact cameras in last year or two have such a ring, customisable to function of course.
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Hulyss

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2013, 11:21:23 am »

No video ?? If not I do not think I will go in.

If this camera is "that" rugged and good, I mean AF, OVF ... I might take it, selling the D700 to buy Black magic camera... But selling the D700 is not an option ...

If video then, I will be very happy.
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Dale_Cotton2

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2013, 03:54:10 pm »

Yes -- no video.

If the idea of an FM/FE digital turns your crank, unfortunately the rumoured specs don't support that. The latest Nikon Rumors blog post (now at 90% confidence) says more like F3HP, and the posted dimensions agree, as vs the FM2:

  • Nikon retro: 143.5x110x66.5mm @ 765g
  • Nikon F3HP: 148.5x101.5x69mm @ 760g
  • Nikon FM2: 142x90x60mm @ 540g
  • Nikon FM3A: 142.5x90x58mm @ 570g
  • Nikon D610:  141x113x82mm @ 850g

Suggests design goal is not smaller camera, but re-creation of metal system camera design from pre-plastic, pre-automation era. Meters with even pre-AI lenses, which suggests something to make use of all those MF and AIS lenses many people have lying around. But the fact that the kit lens is a 50mm G (no aperture ring) says it fully supports AF and electronic aperture/shutter, as well. But I haven't seen any indication of AF level.

The sensor is 16.2 MP FF, which apparently immediately suggests Nikon D4, but could be a refresh or something different all together. The low pixel count stands out, but a reasonable explanation is that much older glass will be happier if limitations not emphasized by huge pixel counts. Plus, you get super low light handling.

The word "hybrid" has been associated with this camera from first rumour. Most likely this relates to a patent Nikon has for a VF that switches between electronic and optical, not digital overlay on top of optical view. An early misconception after first rumour was that this would be mirrorless, but absolutely not possible: F-mount and pentaprism. So, unlike many other new camera lines (and even Nikon's own DX), at least no painful wait for lens line-up to be fleshed out.

Timing of this rumour on heels of Sony's A7/A7R, together with fact that camera won't be announced until Nov 6, after the PhotoPlus Expo, suggests to me that what we could have here is an engineering prototype that won't be ready for release for 6 months or more. Seems not meant to be competitor with A7/R in compactness, but more Nikon's answer to Leica M digital series -- put digital guts inside classical interface and support large lens legacy.

A lot of the digital tech is strangely last-gen and not top-of-line, like 2016 pixel 3D colour metering, D4-ish sensor, Expeed 3 processor, 5.5 FPS. Really makes me think this is a prototype from several years ago that has been hastily resurrected, perhaps in hopes to address falling revenues crisis. Instead of delaying another two years to aim at cutting edge tech, this could be more a trial balloon to see whether there will be a market for SLR retro.

Use of smallish battery -- EN-EL14 -- is another design compromise that gives concern. Presumably chosen due to lack of room due to little or no grip. OK: maybe "hybrid" has nothing to do with finder but instead means dual power source: battery + film advance crank repurposed as manual power generator. ;)

Yet another concern is how far the exterior retro will go. True re-creation of a former classic a la Leica, or pseudo retro a la Olympus? The G designation to the purported kit lens concerns me in that regard. No aperture ring as part of the default experience jars with a true retro gestalt.

I'm neither a tech whiz nor a Nikon historian. Any corrections to my thinking are welcome.
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DanielStone

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Re: Digital Nikon FM2 on his way
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2013, 07:13:13 pm »

Was looking at the X100s as a lightweight travel camera for the foreseeable future, and was on the cusp of selling all my Nikon lenses and F4 bodies. Might still sell the bodies, since I never shoot 35 anymore, but now that the lenses can find a potential home in the digital realm, I might rethink selling them...

D4 sensor in F3 clothes... Dare I say a match made in heaven ;)?!

Besides, who REALLY needs more than 16mp of info except pixel-peepers and circle jerking MTF-chart junkies who never take pictures of anything but their hallway flower vase or their cat/dog staring out the window :D? C'mon guys... What we need with this new Nikon is the beat-it-to-hell-and-it-still-keeps-clicking reliability of the early F's, but sporting new digital innards...

Just wish it'd take CF cards, though. These dinky "leave-em-in-your-pocket-then-your-wife-finds-it-in-the-wash-after-the-rinse-cycle" SD cards are a royal PITA... Give us something durable...

Oh, a (100%) OVF too. None of this "92% visible" business like with the F100.

:)

-Dan
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