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Author Topic: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0  (Read 101745 times)

Steve Hendrix

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #120 on: January 25, 2011, 01:01:20 pm »

Steve,

 You don't see anything ridiculous or unfair about this pricing?
 Maybe we as customers have different opinions at this point.
 I wouldn't call it unfair, just priced in fantasy-land.
 Good luck making us pay. And I say this as a Phase owner.
 I'm setting up a shoot next week with an award-winning film producer, and this is going to be done on an iPhone. I'm sure you'll enjoy the laugh.

Edmund



No, I don't. That you don't feel it offers an acceptable ROI is your subjective circumstance - and may be completely justified. However, that alone does not make the pricing unfair or ridiculous. If you upgrade to an IQ160 from P45+, you receive at least $17,000 trade credit for the P45+. If you upgrade to IQ180 from P45+, you receive $20,000 trade credit. Recently I sold a demo P45+ for $13,490. End user to end user P45+ sales range from $11,000 - $12,000. What is unfair about this? Please, tell me.

You don't know me Edward, though you think you do. I won't rise to your bait of "laughing at your iPhone". I respect all devices that photographers use to create their imagery. Anyone who really knows me would be aware of this.


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Ed Jack

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #121 on: January 25, 2011, 01:09:07 pm »

Nice to see all the news backs are availble in a contax 645 mount... makes it all the more strange that the AFi and Rolleiflex mount doesn't seem to be supported, especially given Leaf's invovlement. A conspiracy theorist would be thinking that vestages of the Leaf mangement want the Afi platform preserved on Leaf backs only, or even the preserve of the Leaf backs at 80MP ?!! Still don't think it costs much to have another mount developed and made available.

 Ed
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JonathanBenoit

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #122 on: January 25, 2011, 01:23:43 pm »

I didnt bother to read all the posts. sorry if Im restating the obvious.
I think this new db line will be very appealing to field photographers such as for architecture and landscape. I bet most of the negative posts about price come from photographers that do not need live-view to the same extent.
However, I still cant see the justification in the extra expense. It is pretty bold of phase one to increase the price of their flagship back.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #123 on: January 25, 2011, 01:43:33 pm »

I didnt bother to read all the posts. sorry if Im restating the obvious.
I think this new db line will be very appealing to field photographers such as for architecture and landscape. I bet most of the negative posts about price come from photographers that do not need live-view to the same extent.
However, I still cant see the justification in the extra expense. It is pretty bold of phase one to increase the price of their flagship back.


Agree that the new features may not appeal to everyone. I own photographic products also and I don't always upgrade with each new version.

The justification is the cost of the product. It is priced where P1 feels they can make a profit back on their investment and r&d. And is priced where it as a result. They are a very smart company from a business standpoint. They have priced the products where they feel they will result in the appropriate amount of sales at an appropriate margin for them to hit the target they have set for themselves as a company, just like anyone else (including commercial photographers, many of whom undervalue their products and services).

A brand new Phase One IQ160 Kit with DF Camera and 80mm Schneider Lens costs $3,000 less than a Hasselblad H4D-60. Why don't you bash Hasselblad's pricing? Why should Phase One charge even less?


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eronald

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #124 on: January 25, 2011, 01:53:20 pm »

Doug,

How about

- Huge depth of field
- Good location acceptance in tight super-busy quarters.
- and last not least - really nice look.
- I am deadly tired of ACR, Photoshop and all that sh*t.

Edmund



Is it being done for a reason other than the following:
 - intellectual curiosity ("I wonder if / how well we can make this work")
 - cross promotional / novelty appeal ("this will get us links from blogs & articles")
 - complete lack of budget

If so I'm very curious.

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« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 02:02:28 pm by eronald »
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2011, 01:57:28 pm »

- Huge depth of field
- Good location acceptance in tight super-busy quarters.
- and last not least - really nice look.

Sounds Great! Enjoy the shoot.

You know I know every camera has advantages and disadvantages and it's all about compromise. Knowing you (at least a little) I figured you had a good reason. It does bother me when someone uses an iPhone / still-grab-from-video / pseudo-antique-process or other equipment/process for the novelty or promotional appeal - but clearly that is not the case for this shoot or for you.

I figured if you were doing it there must be a good reason (for your application). Make sure to share (whatever public-able) footage!

BlasR

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #126 on: January 25, 2011, 02:13:34 pm »

Steve,

Why Hasselblad should be bash?
and that price is for the Ignoring Q160, no the IQ180. 

I do not have problem with Phase one.  I can be with them if when i had problem, someone help me, but
no one did, so I change in I have now the H4D-60.
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Jack Flesher

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #127 on: January 25, 2011, 02:14:56 pm »

Here we go...




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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #128 on: January 25, 2011, 02:29:54 pm »

Steve,

Why Hasselblad should be bash?
and that price is for the Ignoring Q160, no the IQ180. 

I do not have problem with Phase one.  I can be with them if when i had problem, someone help me, but
no one did, so I change in I have now the H4D-60.


Blas -

I have not bashed Hassleblad. No one has. I am wondering why a Phase One product that uses the same sensor as a Hasselblad is getting bashed instead of Hasselblad because of its price when it is $3,000 less than the Hasselblad?


Steve Hendrix
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BobDavid

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #129 on: January 25, 2011, 02:34:15 pm »

It's time to move on from this thread. The market will determine how Phase One's new offerings will be received. At least the bar has been raised in a certain segment of photography. Phase One, Hasselblad, Leica, and Apple do not force anyone to buy their products.
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TMARK

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #130 on: January 25, 2011, 02:44:30 pm »

I don't get the negative vibes.  These backs offer what I wanted back when the P65 came out.  They are stupid expensive, but what else is new, they have always been stupid expensive.  

Some of the comments remind me of the Republicans attacking the health Care Reform Act:  absurdist and strange, fear mongering about Apple leaving your back unsupported.  If you don't like the new backs, don't buy them.  Their price tag makes that course of action an easy enough proposition.  

What Phase should do is have Mamiya make a digital RZ along the lines of the AFi/Hy6. Come to think of it, they should use an adapter system like Blad and Sinar, so that you can use the back on whatever camera you want.  That would be an open system.
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uaiomex

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #131 on: January 25, 2011, 02:48:35 pm »

Ok, I'll give you a break now. You vastly need it before you have to be committed. :D

I went again through all specs from the new P1 backs. I've changed my mind somehow. They are indeed a significant advance in DMF back manufacturing. If the coming live view works for portraits and studio work, it will pass. The implementation of the retina lcd is a first in the industry and in fact a huge advance in this department for dmf. I wish (I expected) this new line of backs had better prices, but no.  Will these new backs produce lower prices for the used P+ backs? . Nope, I don't think so since these backs are limited to 1 minute exposures.
It seems to me that P1 did an enormous effort bringing all this new engineering inside these new backs. If it is of any good, Kudos to PhaseOne for the effort. I'm not schizo, it's just that I'm entitled to rectify.  ::)  And I say this despite it was not of any benefit for my practice in any way whatsoever.
Eduardo

Here we go...





« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 02:55:37 pm by uaiomex »
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eronald

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #132 on: January 25, 2011, 02:52:46 pm »

I'm also changing my mind. I think that Phase are now selling basically to the same market as Bentley. For that crowd, a few thousand dollars here and there doesn't even matter, what matters is the product rep and impact. So good luck to Steve and Doug, it's a new world out there.

Edmund

PS I'm sure you'll be able to get the decent screen and the same sensors on the Pentax in a year or so, for half the price. I've seen this film before with Nikon and Zeiss Ikon.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 02:55:49 pm by eronald »
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BJNY

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #133 on: January 25, 2011, 02:57:36 pm »

.....Come to think of it, they should use an adapter system like Blad and Sinar, so that you can use the back on whatever camera you want.  That would be an open system.

Have doubt it will happen

as tighter integration is necessary for [ever] decreasing tolerances.
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Guillermo

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #134 on: January 25, 2011, 03:07:28 pm »

I may be the only one who thinks this, but I think the inclusion of in-camera focus mask is the most exciting new feature.  I am quite impressed by the many small changes made by PhaseOne which together will really help people's workflow.
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PierreVandevenne

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #135 on: January 25, 2011, 03:16:09 pm »

I'm also changing my mind. I think that Phase are now selling basically to the same market as Bentley.

Look at their balance sheet. Take the individual product prices. Assume a discount for resellers. Add software, accessories, lenses, lower end backs to the mix. Look at Bentley's sales numbers. Conclusion: they are selling far less than Bentley but significantly more than Bugatti. ;-)
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cyberean

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #136 on: January 25, 2011, 03:52:34 pm »

Simon,

I don't think they're selling to you.

Sure they'll take the order, but if you glance (glance not read) over all the e-mails and web links Phase has sent out on this camera they mention image quality about 4,000 times.

Heck they even named it I(mage) Q(qualtiy).

...


you don't know that for sure ... do you ...
for all we know it could be any of the following ...

Information Quality
Intelligence Quotient
Installation Qualification
Indefinite Quantity
Inhibitory Quotient
Inverse Quantization


personally, i'm leaning towards the following two ...
Indefinite Quantity
Inhibitory Quotient


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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2011, 03:56:13 pm »

If the coming live view works for portraits and studio work, it will pass. The implementation of the retina lcd is a first in the industry and in fact a huge advance in this department for dmf.

As we very clearly say on our Phase One IQ page it will not work for portraits or fashion. If by studio work you mean product, still life, and macro then absolutely yes. If by studio work you mean portraits or fashion then no.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Jozef Zajaz

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #138 on: January 25, 2011, 03:59:27 pm »

Steve,

 You don't see anything ridiculous or unfair about this pricing?
 Maybe we as customers have different opinions at this point.
 I wouldn't call it unfair, just priced in fantasy-land.
 Good luck making us pay. And I say this as a Phase owner.
 I'm setting up a shoot next week with an award-winning film producer, and this is going to be done on an iPhone. I'm sure you'll enjoy the laugh.

Edmund



If most ppl are willing to pay that amount of money for that product so no! A company always strides to sell their product for as much as possible.
Dont think Phase One  would price the backs the way they do if the didnt think/knew ppl would buy the product.

Porsche charges around 100k for a car base price because they can. Sure there are probably a bunch of ppl bitching/complaining about that as well but if the want a car they also have the possibility to buy a used Honda or whatever.

If you dont like the price dont buy it.....
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EricWHiss

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2011, 04:02:26 pm »

Have doubt it will happen

as tighter integration is necessary for [ever] decreasing tolerances.

I'd be excited about an adapter plate system, and I'm sure there are many ways to circumvent mechanical positioning errors that would be ton cheaper to implement than a new screen.  I'd really like to see some kind of alignment check with adjusts anyhow that would allow users to calibrate both the focus and alignment. I've been dreaming of a back mount system that had movements.

Well none of this takes away from the improvements Phase has just made.  I do think the new IQ backs represent significant advancements.
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