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Author Topic: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0  (Read 101751 times)

Steve Hendrix

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2011, 04:25:21 pm »

You misread. Phase One IQ140 is $21,990.

The S2 is also a good camera. But they are fairly dissimilar systems so it's kind of hard to compare in general (only for a specific person's needs/wants).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Doug - this is imaginary, hypothetical, non-reality based.


Steve Hendrix
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deejjjaaaa

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2011, 04:29:33 pm »

a little off topic... was C1 upgraded to 6.0.2 for w/ new MFDBs ? and if so any chance to see what other cameras did they add to the list of supported bodies.
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2011, 04:31:45 pm »

$33,990 is too expensive for a 40 MP, far too much, for that price I can get a Leica S2 + lenses

I don't want 60 MP even at 5000 euro I shall not take it , never !  what shall I do with 60 MP ? 


Eric - then buy the S2. Phase One does not make a product for you. But they do make products for others.

Don't get me wrong, I mean I understand you. You yourself want this product at 40MP's - no higher! - and there may be others who would pay a little bit less to have 50% fewer pixels over the same sensor size. But it isn't going to happen. I understand you want less. I see no issue with Phase One making more.

And incidentally, you really better buy the S2, because Leica has stated they will never make the sensor any larger than 45mm x 30mm on future generations of the S series. At some point, they make actually increase the resolution though and then you'll be hosed!


Steve Hendrix
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Erick Boileau

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2011, 04:38:09 pm »

Leica has stated they will never make the sensor any larger than 45mm x 30mm on future generations of the S series. At some point, they make actually increase the resolution though and then you'll be hosed!
Steve Hendrix
except if Leica customers clearly don't want more or much more pixels
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BJL

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... retina type multi touch screen
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2011, 04:40:53 pm »

I know you're joking, but just for an interesting point of reference, the Phase One IQ LCD is not just the best LCD of any digital back. It is the best LCD on any still camera.


From our Article on the Phase One IQ LCD.
Second best LCD of any still camera: my "go everywhere" camera, an iPod Touch, has a larger, higher resolution "Retina Display". Somewhat worse resolution and DR though.

To be fair, using the full width of the back allows a wider screen than any SLR is likely to have, and so allows displaying some info. like histograms to the side of the preview rather than with annoying overlays.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 04:51:15 pm by BJL »
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simplify

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2011, 04:43:35 pm »

I would upgrade from my P45+ to the IQ180 tomorrow, if it allowed exposures more than one minute.  Long exposures are a huge factor for me, and my P45+ is still the highest resolution back that can handle long exposures.  I am sad that long exposure shooters have been left out in the dust by Phase One, with no upgrade options since the P45+
JP
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2011, 04:44:38 pm »

Second best LCD of any still camera: my "go everywhere" camera, an iPod Touch, has a larger, higher resolution "Retina Display". Somewhat worse resolution and DR though.

 ;D

tho_mas

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2011, 05:04:53 pm »

I just gave the link a quick glance, but I didn't see what camera platforms it supports other than the Mamiya.
there is a Contax mount. nice!
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BJL

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sensor cost is more about size than pixel count
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2011, 05:12:59 pm »

it will be cheaper of course
Why do you think a 40MP sensor would be cheaper if it were the same size as the 60MP and 80MP ones? MF sensor production costs are dominated by size, not pixel count, so a 40MP sensor of the same size as the current 60MP and 80MP Dalsa ones would cost about the same to make. Yes, backs with an older generation sensor of the same size and lower pixel count typically cost less, but that is mostly about "market value" (the lower res. options are in less demand, despite what one might think by reading some forums), and the fact that the development costs of the older, lower res. sensor has been defrayed, so it can be profitably sold at lower price by the sensor maker.

P. S. The image quality advantages sometimes attribute to larger photosites are in fact almost entirely due to larger sensors: fewer, bigger photosites will not have much effect on the DR seen in final image when displayed at the same size, only on misleading "per pixel" lab measurements and such.
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Dennis Carbo

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2011, 05:20:05 pm »

P. S. The image quality advantages sometimes attribute to larger photosites are in fact almost entirely due to larger sensors: fewer, bigger photosites will not have much effect on the DR seen in final image when displayed at the same size, only on misleading "per pixel" lab measurements and such. 

Don't larger photosites generally give an image with less noise ?  I always thought that was a plus in larger photosites...is that not the case ?
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Jozef Zajaz

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2011, 05:24:16 pm »

Wow amazing to see how many ppl bitch about the new cameras dont have this dont do that.

Lol if you dont like it dont buy it. There will never be a camera that satisfies every photographer EVERYone has diffrent needs. You simply find the camera that has the most things you need and get it then create stunning images.

I'm a superhappy p30+ user and probably wont upgrade because I dont have the money for the investment. I love my p30+ and use it as much as I can but im as happy when i have to shoot low light situations and switch to my 5dII because in the end it all comes down to ONE think to capture that image that your client will be happy with.

(I'm pretty sure that 80% of the photographers clients here would never see the diffrence of a image from a 5dII or a IQ180 shot in studio and then retouched for print)

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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2011, 05:46:26 pm »

Don't larger photosites generally give an image with less noise ?  I always thought that was a plus in larger photosites...is that not the case ?

If all else was equal then yes larger pixels should have less noise.

But there are other factors like the % of the sensor that is actually gathering light (as opposed to electronics packages seated next to the active pixels, or the size of the walls between pixels). As well the read-out technology, A/D convertor, black frame technology and other technology/electronics have all improved over time. The end result is that each generation of sensors has actually (modestly) improved in DR/noise as the sensor pixel sizes went from 12 to 9 to 6.8 to 6 microns. Phase is claiming a similar "scootch" more improvement with the 5.2 micron sensor - of course I want to see it to believe it.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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JV

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2011, 05:48:11 pm »

I'm a superhappy p30+ user and probably wont upgrade because I dont have the money for the investment. I love my p30+ and use it as much as I can but im as happy when i have to shoot low light situations and switch to my 5dII because in the end it all comes down to ONE think to capture that image that your client will be happy with.

Same here.  I think the P30+ is great.  It covers all my needs except low light situations.

I will need to look for a solution outside of Phase.  I cannot justify a $15K upgrade cost for better ISO (with lower resolution) and a good LCD.

The previous upgrade cost (to a P40+) was $10K, so you pay now $5K additional for the LCD screen.  This is twice the price of a 5Dmk2.

Mindboggling and insane!  I am sure it will be an excellent product but the pricing is pure madness.
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AldoMurillo

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #93 on: January 24, 2011, 07:13:05 pm »


Eric - then buy the S2. Phase One does not make a product for you. But they do make products for others.

Don't get me wrong, I mean I understand you. You yourself want this product at 40MP's - no higher! - and there may be others who would pay a little bit less to have 50% fewer pixels over the same sensor size. But it isn't going to happen. I understand you want less. I see no issue with Phase One making more.

And incidentally, you really better buy the S2, because Leica has stated they will never make the sensor any larger than 45mm x 30mm on future generations of the S series. At some point, they make actually increase the resolution though and then you'll be hosed!


Steve Hendrix

I guess we will have to wait for the iQ1-160 for the FF 40 MP back... of course in sensor+ mode  :D
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 07:16:18 pm by AldoMurillo »
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Aldo Murillo

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2011, 07:41:41 pm »

I would upgrade from my P45+ to the IQ180 tomorrow, if it allowed exposures more than one minute.  Long exposures are a huge factor for me, and my P45+ is still the highest resolution back that can handle long exposures.  I am sad that long exposure shooters have been left out in the dust by Phase One, with no upgrade options since the P45+
JP
http://www.JPJespersen.com

I second that! my p45+ is awesome and a 1 min exposure time limit is just no good. The new backs, although very attractive, are instantly no good because of this problem!

Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2011, 07:46:20 pm »

I second that! my p45+ is awesome and a 1 min exposure time limit is just no good. The new backs, although very attractive, are instantly no good because of this problem!

That is to say "no good" for your needs.  ;)

If you often need more than 1 minute exposures than the P45+ is the best back in the world for you :-).

Paul C.

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #96 on: January 24, 2011, 07:55:04 pm »

That is to say "no good" for your needs.  ;)

Cut the sleezy sales bs. If someone had said "the new backs are fantastic!" would you have felt the need to chime in with "maybe 'fantastic' for you"?
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EricWHiss

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2011, 08:10:29 pm »

If all else was equal then yes larger pixels should have less noise.

But there are other factors like the % of the sensor that is actually gathering light (as opposed to electronics packages seated next to the active pixels, or the size of the walls between pixels). As well the read-out technology, A/D convertor, black frame technology and other technology/electronics have all improved over time. The end result is that each generation of sensors has actually (modestly) improved in DR/noise as the sensor pixel sizes went from 12 to 9 to 6.8 to 6 microns. Phase is claiming a similar "scootch" more improvement with the 5.2 micron sensor - of course I want to see it to believe it.


OK , I won't debate the point on DR (even though the sensor spec sheets quote lower SNR numbers for most of the chips made after the 9micron ones (at least for Kodak)).   Maybe the difference is made up in the other electronics?

However for DOF concerns,  doesn't the sensel size make a difference because of diffraction effects? 2nd question: Does the sensor plus technology help mitigate the diffraction loses for small apertures? I mean if a group of pixels is binned does it act like a larger sensor well?

And just to add....definitely I'd consider purchasing one of the new phase backs if I could fit one to my cameras as I am looking at the AFi-ii 12 now.   I really like the phase software and the new interface and screen look fantastic.


« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 08:14:10 pm by EricWHiss »
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hubell

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2011, 08:55:52 pm »

Paradoxically, the Focus Mask and limited Live View features of the new Phase backs just may be the perfect solution for the Hasselblad tilt/shift device with H mount Phase backs and old H1s and H2s.  I have tried using it untethered, and I found it impossible to focus with it accurately by looking through the viewfinder or by inspecting the LCD on my current Phase back. (Same problem with a tech camera, and you don't even have a viewfinder.) I am very interested to see how effective the Live View and Focus Mask features are in practice for fine tuning focus and depth of field. I also don't see why the Focus Mask feature could not be used by a camera's firmware to bracket  automatically for focus through the entire image.

Ken Doo

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Re: Phase One IQ digital backs w/ retina type multi touch screen + USB 3.0
« Reply #99 on: January 24, 2011, 09:25:05 pm »

I also don't see why the Focus Mask feature could not be used by a camera's firmware to bracket  automatically for focus through the entire image.

Now that would be really cool.
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