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Author Topic: Photoshop on Win or OSX  (Read 54554 times)

Mark D Segal

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« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2010, 04:18:39 pm »

Sorry Duane - hard for me to relate to; thankfully been gone from the "fast lane" for some time now and all this is pure pleasure. Don't need to impress anyone, nor do I care to. I'm happy doing what I think is most practical relative to my needs. I know, this approach is as boring and introverted as it gets, but that'a a glimpse of the "other crowd" making these decisions.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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duane_bolland

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« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2010, 06:20:49 pm »

Quote from: Mark D Segal
Sorry Duane - hard for me to relate to; thankfully been gone from the "fast lane" for some time now and all this is pure pleasure. Don't need to impress anyone, nor do I care to. I'm happy doing what I think is most practical relative to my needs. I know, this approach is as boring and introverted as it gets, but that'a a glimpse of the "other crowd" making these decisions.

I'm cool with that.      To each their own.
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Ray

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« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2010, 06:09:04 pm »

Quote from: duane_bolland
The Mac-PC decision is not just about hardware and software.  There's something socially significant about defecting from PCs.  It affects how people interact with you.  In some subtle way, they respect you better because you could afford a Mac and chose that route.  I noticed this also when I bought my first pro camera.  Clients put you in a different (hopefully better) class.  I don't want to turn this discussion into class warfare, but there is certainly a class factor to be considered.  Consider these product match ups:


Dear me! Now you've spilt the beans, Duane   .

I always thought Mac users continued to use Mac either because they had become accustomed to the system, and/or because they found some small advantage in the operation of one or more applications with certain equipment. For example, there used to be a speed issue with tethered MFDBs which tended to be faster on a Mac.

But now you raise the possibility that many people who are into photography may use a Mac simply to con people into believing that they know what they are doing. I shall now have to view Mac users with a new suspicion   .
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Chris_Brown

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« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2010, 07:54:46 pm »

Quote from: Ray
But now you raise the possibility that many people who are into photography may use a Mac simply to con people into believing that they know what they are doing.
tch! Well, duh! I use Macs only to impress clients and to serve up a better scoff at my inferior PC-toting competition.  
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2010, 08:03:20 pm »

Quote from: Ray
But now you raise the possibility that many people who are into photography may use a Mac simply to con people into believing that they know what they are doing.

Gheez, if that's all it takes we should all be running out to buy one.........
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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joofa

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« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2010, 12:36:07 pm »

Macs sit on a power house that many (most??) photographers never bother to take advantage of, which is the power of BSD unix exposed through the Terminal. For e.g., every now and then there are questions on this forum regarding simple manipulation of files, for instance, take this recent one, where the poster wanted to know how to filter images with certain sizes. Some people suggested to use plugins for this simple operation and I pointed out that it is a one-liner on the Mac Terminal prompt (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....st&p=362628). There are many other instances of similar requests on this forum (renaming files according to certain patterns, etc.) and one can't have a plugin for each!

Photographers can already understand and manage complicated programs such as Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. very well, and I see no problem with them learning a few Terminal commands that unleash that power for them.

Macs have an inherent advantage in this respect that Windows does not come with such shell. However, for the more adventurous, one can install stuff such as Cygwin or MSys to get the equivalent workflow on Windows.

Joofa
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 02:11:10 pm by joofa »
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Alan Goldhammer

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« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2010, 03:52:22 pm »

I just saw a news clip about Steve Jobs bashing Adobe and saying that the I-Phone and Pad will never run Flash.  Maybe the whole colorsynch problem was a way to get back at Adobe as well.  I wonder how much longer Macs will be able to run Photoshop and LR before Adobe takes their revenge?  You all better switch to PCs pretty soon so you don't get caught.  Are we sure LR3 really will run on Macs?
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John.Murray

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« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2010, 04:09:15 pm »

Quote from: joofa
Macs sit on a power house that many (most??) photographers never bother to take advantage of, which is the power of BSD unix exposed through the Terminal. For e.g., every now and then there are questions on this forum regarding simple manipulation of files, for instance, take this recent one, where the poster wanted to know how to filter images with certain sizes. Some people suggested to use plugins for this simple operation and I pointed out that it is a one-liner on the Mac Terminal prompt (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....st&p=362628). There are many other instances of similar requests on this forum (renaming files according to certain patterns, etc.) and one can't have a plugin for each!

Photographers can already understand and manage complicated programs such as Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. very well, and I see no problem with them learning a few Terminal commands that unleash that power for them.

Macs have an inherent advantage in this respect that Windows does not come with such shell. However, for the more adventurous, one can install stuff such as Cygwin or MSys to get the equivalent workflow on Windows.

Joofa
Actually Windows has had Posix compliance since Windows NT4.  After the purchase of Interix, they've offered Windows Service for Unix as a free download:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb496506.aspx
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joofa

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« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2010, 04:39:32 pm »

Quote from: Joh.Murray
Actually Windows has had Posix compliance since Windows NT4.  After the purchase of Interix, they've offered Windows Service for Unix as a free download:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb496506.aspx

Hi,

Thanks for the link. It appears that it is an optional package that needs to be installed on Windows, similar to Cygwin/MSys, which are free. I don't know if it will be a part of the regular operating system instead of an add-on in the newer versions of Windows. But the good thing is that once you get such system installed then, of course, you can do a lot of Unix/Linux like file manipulation in Windows. The easy thing with Mac OS X is that such stuff comes by default through Darwin, which is a flavor/variant of BSD Unix, without any extra installation and is beautifully integrated into the GUI-based Mac OS X.

I use Cygwin/MSys on Windows all of the time as I can't do all of the things in the Explorer. However, I have had problems with symbolic linking to files on both of them on Windows. In don't know about Interix as I have not used it. On Mac OS X, of course, there is no problem with symbolic linking.

Joofa
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 06:03:22 pm by joofa »
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jjj

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« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2010, 12:30:57 am »

Quote from: Chris_Brown
Quote from: PeterAit
Bottom line, both platforms are fast and stable for CS5 and LR. If you want to spend many hundreds of dollars extra for no practical advantage, get the Mac.
I'm amazed this myth still exists.
Uh, it's not a myth!
Posted from my 17" Mac Book Pro which costs a lot more than an equivalent PC.
If you want to see some myths look at the nonsense Steve Jobs just posted on Apple website about Adobe + Flash.

I use both OSs and PCs are better in some ways and the Mac in others.
Both are also crap in many ways too.
If you are used to using one system and happy, stick with it.




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jjj

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« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2010, 12:43:24 am »

Quote from: duane_bolland
I want to talk about the taboo subject of prestige.  
  Using a Mac laptop is one more way to differentiate yourself from the PC sheep.    Just saying...
I agree, it's a great way of impressing morons who don't know better. I have a Mac laptop for that very reason.
The sheep comment is also remarkably ironic, seeing as the Apple way is about very little choice. You use only what the Lord Jobs allows you to use, very little freedom of choice.

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sjprg

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« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2010, 04:25:49 pm »

Quote from: jjj
I agree, it's a great way of impressing morons who don't know better. I have a Mac laptop for that very reason.
The sheep comment is also remarkably ironic, seeing as the Apple way is about very little choice. You use only what the Lord Jobs allows you to use, very little freedom of choice.

Anyone whom has ever spoken to Jobs on a one to one basis has a different name for him. A$$
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Paul

Mark D Segal

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« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2010, 04:59:39 pm »

Quote from: sjprg
Anyone whom has ever spoken to Jobs on a one to one basis has a different name for him. A$$

If you want to get personal, perhaps you should tell us who is the real person behind your screen name, and how your lifetime accomplishments compare with those of Steve Jobs.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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JeffKohn

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« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2010, 06:22:56 pm »

Quote from: Mark D Segal
If you want to get personal, perhaps you should tell us who is the real person behind your screen name, and how your lifetime accomplishments compare with those of Steve Jobs.
I don't see what lifetime accomplishments have to do with being an ass or not, but I haven't met Jobs personally so that's all I'm gonna say about that.

I will say I don't much care for the cult-like attitude of Apple and some of its more strident fans/customers. As for the whole "prestige" argument, I would say anybody who is impressed by the brand of your computer isn't worth impressing, and anybody who thinks they're cool because of the brand of their computer isn't really cool at all.

On the topic of pricing, it may well be true that a top-of-the-line workstation configured to match a mac-pro is in the same ball-park price wise. But the nice thing about the PC platform is that you can stop down to 90% of the performance for about 1/2 the price. And if you go the build-your-own route you can get exactly you want, and make the most of your budget (whatever that budget is).


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Jeff Kohn
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2010, 08:12:07 pm »

Quote from: JeffKohn
I will say I don't much care for the cult-like attitude of Apple and some of its more strident fans/customers. As for the whole "prestige" argument, I would say anybody who is impressed by the brand of your computer isn't worth impressing, and anybody who thinks they're cool because of the brand of their computer isn't really cool at all.

On the topic of pricing, it may well be true that a top-of-the-line workstation configured to match a mac-pro is in the same ball-park price wise. But the nice thing about the PC platform is that you can stop down to 90% of the performance for about 1/2 the price. And if you go the build-your-own route you can get exactly you want, and make the most of your budget (whatever that budget is).

I too am very agnostic about brands of anything - it depends on what works bet for me and the price:quality:service relationships. Cults around brands are completely foolish and only serve to jack-up prices. Right now I'm using a PC, but I'm seriously considering switching to Mac because I need to migrate to 64-bit for more RAM access, so it means rebuilding the whole damn thing whichever way I go. Once I need to do all that work regardless of the choice of OS, I'm having a fundamental rethink of the pros and and cons of each. I think this is how we should go about making these decisions - not just blindly doing what we've done before, or what appears "cool".

I'm leaning to Apple this time, mainly due to superior service and OS functionality. I know it's much less configurable than a PC and therefore much more constrained as far as spending range is concerned, but advantages they do have are that on the whole everything plays well together (except for certain aspects of colour management - wouldn't you know it from the company that prided itself on superior colour management for the graphic arts all these years), far better security from web threats and therefore far less nuissance with AV programs and OS updates, better system back-up capability and the list goes on. Well, I'm not racing into a decision just yet - still thinking and plodding through the views of users on both sides. Oh yes - and my "flagship" Dell 690 Precision Workstation has been through 2 "C" drives and a graphics card within 42 months. Yeah, it can happen to any computer, these are all 3rd party components for both companies. But still, enough to get one kinda fed-up. Sort of like changing politicians every few years when more often than not you know it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.  

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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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PeterAit

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« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2010, 09:36:15 am »

Quote from: JeffKohn
I don't see what lifetime accomplishments have to do with being an ass or not, but I haven't met Jobs personally so that's all I'm gonna say about that.

I will say I don't much care for the cult-like attitude of Apple and some of its more strident fans/customers. As for the whole "prestige" argument, I would say anybody who is impressed by the brand of your computer isn't worth impressing, and anybody who thinks they're cool because of the brand of their computer isn't really cool at all.

On the topic of pricing, it may well be true that a top-of-the-line workstation configured to match a mac-pro is in the same ball-park price wise. But the nice thing about the PC platform is that you can stop down to 90% of the performance for about 1/2 the price. And if you go the build-your-own route you can get exactly you want, and make the most of your budget (whatever that budget is).

Are there really people who think that using a Mac gives them prestige? That's sort of like a carpenter strutting around with his chest puffed out because his brand of hammer is "better" than any other.
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Alan Goldhammer

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« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2010, 11:16:25 am »

As long as Macs and PCs coexist we will have these discussions.  I'm firmly in the PC camp from a price/value perspective.  While components can fail (and they will on either platform) the ease at which one can fix a PC vs a Mac is a deciding factor as is the configurability.  I just got a new cell phone last week (Verizon doesn't offer the I-Phone on its network).  Upgraded to the Android Incredible which can take up to 32 gB of memory using the new Sandisk micro SD cards (pretty much could put my Lightroom catalogue on this and still have room left over).  It multitasks and has an 8 megapixel camera that's supposed to be the best currently available.  It's made by HTC and not Apple but from my reading, it does everything the I-Phone does and more (though there are currently not as many applications available; but I do have the killer ap; a DC Metro ap that tells me when the next subway or bus will arrive).

Alan
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mistymoon

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« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2010, 10:16:05 pm »

Those who complain about the cult of Mac fail to realize how much the Windows platform has been helped by competition from Apple.  Those of us who have been photographers for a long time realize that Photoshop was originally available ONLY on the Mac, which built a lot of brand loyalty from professionals early on.  Long before that, the Mac pioneered using a mouse instead of keyboard commands; this made computer use for all sorts of graphics more accessible and easier; this engendered a lot of brand loyalty from graphic artists of all sorts since the mid-1980s.  Apple pioneered widespread use of Firewire and USB, which made peripherals faster and more reliable.  Apple dumped the floppy drive first, realizing that media artists were going to need greater storage capacity.  Apple's iPhone took the concept of a phone to a new level, engendering a stampede of copycats who pilfered the elegant concept.  Apple developed the first modern operating system in 1984; it wasn't until 1995 that Windows users had a rough equivalent (and could trumpet "mine is cheaper!").  The iPad explores new territory, once again making the user interface easier and more intuitive to use.

My point is not that the Mac and Apple are necessarily better, only that you wouldn't even have your cheaper Windows equivalent if it wasn't for Apple paving the way.  Apple's finest strengths lie in the user interface, the masterful blend of software and hardware, research & development, and, of course, design elegance.  It is rare that a competitor trumps them in any of these areas.

As far as trying to impress people with computers:  I don't.  My computers mostly stay in the studio.  But if you look at most art galleries, they use Macs at their public desks.  Image may not be everything, but when you are trying to sell artwork to wealthy clients, you don't want to sport a Wal Mart level computer up front.  Seriously.
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marcmccalmont

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« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2010, 02:35:24 am »

Quote from: graeme
'Time Machine' can be very useful. Has Windows 7 got an equivalent?

Graeme


Rebit
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sorry for the late reply
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

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« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2010, 04:26:55 am »

In December I was looking to upgrade my computers, I owned a Macintosh 128 in 1984 or 85 and PC's since.
I ended up with a iMAC 27 i7 w/16 gigs of ram and a Dell studio 17 i7  w/8 gigs of ram. Win 7 on the dell was so sweet that I loaded my iMAC with bootcamp 3.1 and win 7 64bit
I set it to boot up in W7 and partitioned the drive 90% windows. It saved me the cost of purchasing CS4 for the Mac (not really I purchased it then didn't use it and sold it)
I only have to be competent with one OS and W7 is the best windows yet, every bit as good as OSX and all my programs work (C1, DxO, CS4 etc.) without any stability issues.
My 2 cents
Marc
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