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Author Topic: Photoshop on Win or OSX  (Read 55292 times)

Pete_G

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Photoshop on Win or OSX
« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2010, 06:41:40 am »

Quote from: Farmer
Hmm, I don't know.  8 Core from 2 Core means two processors from one, so that might present a problem.  I had been under the impression that just changing cores was an issue, but that doesn't seem to be the case (which is great).  It's certainly worth trying!

I'd be very pleasantly surprised if an OS installation originally configured for 2 cores would work optimally on a new 8 core machine, all the config files and the registry would be machine specific. It may run but prolly not optimally, whether you could optimise it I don't know. If I was in your position and had some hours to waste I'd try it though. Wouldn't it be great to have an "intelligent" self healing OS that could reconfigure itself for whatever you threw at it. Maybe someday. I was impressed how during the W7 install it went off and found drivers for all sorts of non standard hardware like fingerprint readers on laptops.

As for the Win v Mac debate, I fully agree with the later, and more sensible, comments that the sytems are pretty well much of a muchness and it would depend on personal preferences, I've always used the mantra "I run applications not OS's".

I'd be quite happy with a Mac desktop but I hate Mac laptops. Thinkpads are much better.
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Alan Goldhammer

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« Reply #101 on: May 06, 2010, 08:40:02 am »

I think Microsoft took a big step forward with Win 7.  I've been running it on two different machines (the earlier machine has since been retired) and over this time have not had a singe crash even when running four programs concurrently (this negates the need to stay with Win XP).  I'm using the backup program that comes with Windows and after the first relatively lengthy backup to create the system image and back up all the files, it does the weekly chore in about 15 minutes or so (I've really not timed it).  My new machine has the latest I7 chip set with 8 gB of RAM and an ATI video card with 1 gB of memory.  It runs both LR and Photoshop seamlessly.  When I am doing photo stuff the only other program that is likely to be open is MS Outlook so I can't say that I'm doing major multi-tasking.  I would agree with others that while you can overclock the video card, that's likely to be of more value for game playing when animation and quick refreshes are needed.  If you are doing photo editing this is not likely to much impact if any.  Bottom line, the user interfaces are different; the programs we are interested in run equally well on both OS (though there was an earlier printer problem with Epson and Snow Leopard that has been thoroughly documented elsewhere on LL), and a comparable PC can run $1000 less than a Mac (and PCs are more simple to maintain if something goes wrong and you have some degree of computer savvy).

alan
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jerryrock

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« Reply #102 on: May 06, 2010, 11:21:22 am »

Quote from: Pete_G
I'd be quite happy with a Mac desktop but I hate Mac laptops. Thinkpads are much better.

Mac laptops consistently win top spots in Consumer Reports laptop reviews.
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Pete_G

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« Reply #103 on: May 06, 2010, 01:13:01 pm »

Quote from: jerryrock
Mac laptops consistently win top spots in Consumer Reports laptop reviews.

Lots of laptops win top spots in all sorts of consumer reports.

If you want to run OSX properly (I don't count OSX_86) then you have no choice but a Mac. I have many good reasons why I, personally, don't like Mac laptops, it's nothing to do with OSX, but I won't bore everyone here with them.

The desktop Macs are different, well built and designed, as are the best PC's.

I use a Thinkpad as my photo computer, linked to an external monitor and other things. It's perfectly good at handling all the images I throw at it, up to 1Gb with many layers, so I sometimes think it's not absolutely essential to have the most expensive and fastest machine out there and to get too upset by all this. As long as your machine, PC or Mac, is reasonably recent and is well configured and maintained it'll do what you want.
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John.Murray

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« Reply #104 on: May 06, 2010, 06:52:28 pm »

Quote from: Pete_G
I'd be very pleasantly surprised if an OS installation originally configured for 2 cores would work optimally on a new 8 core machine, all the config files and the registry would be machine specific. It may run but prolly not optimally, whether you could optimise it I don't know. If I was in your position and had some hours to waste I'd try it though. Wouldn't it be great to have an "intelligent" self healing OS that could reconfigure itself for whatever you threw at it. Maybe someday. I was impressed how during the W7 install it went off and found drivers for all sorts of non standard hardware like fingerprint readers on laptops.

As for the Win v Mac debate, I fully agree with the later, and more sensible, comments that the sytems are pretty well much of a muchness and it would depend on personal preferences, I've always used the mantra "I run applications not OS's".

I'd be quite happy with a Mac desktop but I hate Mac laptops. Thinkpads are much better.

Starting with Vista, the O/S installer is image based.  It's suprisingly tolerant of moving a system drive to a different hardware platform.

Windows and OSX will use all available CPU cores, Win7 will scale to 256.  As far as CPU's (sockets) Win 7 Pro will use 2, the home editions will use 1.



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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #105 on: May 07, 2010, 03:47:05 am »

Since PS is essentially the same on both platforms, let's look at orher things. Here are some good things about doing imaging on the Mac platform:

OS level
- I find expose to be a very efficient way to deal with the processing of several images in several applications since you can see them at a glance when trying to switch from one application/window to another
- I see no performance degradation after thousands of hours of usage, which differs from my Win experience,
- The lack of virus has been a reality so far after a cumulated 7 years on Mac (spread over 3 machines) and is mostly valuable thanks to the reduced need for performance hungru virus buster apps like Norton,
- Networking accross several Macs is IMHO simpler to configure while remaining secure,
- It is possible to virtualize Win 7 in OSX (which I am currently doing with a Win7 64 bits instance) but the opposite is more diffcult and less legal.

Hardware:
- I find my Mac Pro to be quieter than any other equivalent WS I have had the chance to work with. This increases the value of my Nuforce music system,
- It is one of the easiest machine to open and configure (HD addition,...)

Applications
- Raw Developper is Mac only,
- Aperture is Mac only.

Some annoying things about the Mac plarform:
- some key apps are often ported late (DxO is an obvious example)

Cheers,
Bernard

jjj

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« Reply #106 on: May 07, 2010, 08:17:03 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Since PS is essentially the same on both platforms, let's look at orher things. Here are some good things about doing imaging on the Mac platform:

OS level
- I find expose to be a very efficient way to deal with the processing of several images in several applications since you can see them at a glance when trying to switch from one application/window to another
Never find a need for Expose on Mac [or Windows]. I find Cmd+Tab easier and faster to use.
And if we are talking OS stuff - Finder, yeuch such an appalling programme, a very serious impediment to efficient working, thankfully you can bypass it most of the time.

Quote
- I see no performance degradation after thousands of hours of usage, which differs from my Win experience,
I'm about to reinstall OXS fresh again, just like I used to with windows as I'm fed up with the constant slow running and freezes.
The beachball of doom appears very frequently and I do Cmd+Alt +Esc to force quit more often that I ever did Cntrl+Alt +Del to close apps.
And when one programme plays up most of hte other then do so as well.

Quote
The lack of virus has been a reality so far after a cumulated 7 years on Mac (spread over 3 machines) and is mostly valuable thanks to the reduced need for performance hungru virus buster apps like Norton
Norton is indeed truly awful, but there are other options with little/no overhead and Virus threats were an over rated issue as long as you are sensible. And as I mentioned above, the most damage ever dealt to my computer was by iTunes rearranging all my music without asking.

Quote
Networking accross several Macs is IMHO simpler to configure while remaining secure
Networking is a pain full stop. I've had problems with networking with the Macs and the PCs, my Macs still refuse to see the PC laptop and for a while wouldn't see each other.

Quote
It is possible to virtualize Win 7 in OSX (which I am currently doing with a Win7 64 bits instance) but the opposite is more diffcult and less legal.
Interesting how Window's more flexible behaviour twisted around to sound like OSX is better.

Quote
Hardware:
- I find my Mac Pro to be quieter than any other equivalent WS I have had the chance to work with. This increases the value of my Nuforce music system,
You can buy quiet PCs just as you can loud Macs, the plastic G5 was nicknamed the wind tunnel by some people. PCs were quieter before Macs were.
The current aluminium cased MP is however very nice and quiet.

Quote
It is one of the easiest machine to open and configure (HD addition,...)
Now you are 'aving a larf!'
Previously you couldn't add extra internal HDs to Macs and why so many people kept talking about why it was better to keep stuff on external HDs, as opposed to a second internal HD, like PC users did.
My PC case held 9 HDs. Adding more than the 3 there were spaces for in my Mac Pro, involved removing my optical drive - which was so noisy I was glad to be shot of it. Removing fiddly fans and shaving eSata cables to fit on very hard to reach connectors also took some time.
Macs have many advantages by ease of tweaking, customising and upgrading hardware is not one of them.


Quote
Applications
- Raw Developper is Mac only,
- Aperture is Mac only.
And your point is...?  


Quote
Some annoying things about the Mac plarform:
- some key apps are often ported late (DxO is an obvious example)
Or not at all and far more than the two you listed as being Mac only, neither of which I rate very highly and are probably less important to a PS user who would find much better integration with ACR/Bridge/LR.

There are actually slight differences with PS as it happens between the two OSs.
Mac - Drop down menus will disappear off screen if near edges, you are forced to have File menu on main monitor, The Chrome on a PC is more space efficient, which is useful for small laptops. Dodgy Fonts do not cause problems as they do on Macs, which can crash PS completely.

The major difference is that PCs can run lots of programmes much better than Macs do, so if you like to have lots of software open, PCs are way better.
And PCs work fine if your browser comes a cross a website with Flash in it. Macs can grind to a halt, yet although Flash works fine on most of the world's computers, it's Adobe's fault that OSX has problems with it.
Safari crashed earler and the remarkablychildish dialogue that came up was this



and guess what there were no pages with flash on, Safari crashed all by itself and is now trying to tarnish Adobe in the process, which is really pathetic even by Job's normal low standards.
In fact Apple's recent childlike and deeply hypocritical behaviour about open standards and the letter from Steve attacking Adobe, with its numerous lies and mis-truths, is making me think my next computer will not be one of theirs. I've made sure I do not use software that is Mac only, as I do not like being locked in.
I actually like my Macs in many ways, but I am not blind to their many flaws and failing and get fed up with crazy and usually quite ignorant fanboi rantings about how perfect they are and useless PCs are. Neither is perfect, but only one claims to be and yet despite controlling both the hardware and the software as wel as being a premium priced brand, Apple computers are no more problem free than PCs in my experience.

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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #107 on: May 07, 2010, 06:50:59 pm »

Quote from: jjj
In fact Apple's recent childlike and deeply hypocritical behaviour about open standards and the letter from Steve attacking Adobe, with its numerous lies and mis-truths, is making me think my next computer will not be one of theirs. I've made sure I do not use software that is Mac only, as I do not like being locked in.
I actually like my Macs in many ways, but I am not blind to their many flaws and failing and get fed up with crazy and usually quite ignorant fanboi rantings about how perfect they are and useless PCs are. Neither is perfect, but only one claims to be and yet despite controlling both the hardware and the software as wel as being a premium priced brand, Apple computers are no more problem free than PCs in my experience.

Sure, but using both myself also I am having far less issues with my Mac Pro than with any other Win machine before.

Having had the chance to work with MS in a B2B context non related to my private photography applications I happen to have a huge amount of respect for them and their good folks so I surely don't qualify as an Apple fan boy.  

Your experience might differ from mine, but how can you claim that to be an universal truth and explain all differences by fanboism? It looks a bit Dpreviewish to me.  

I am a bit short in time and won't be able to answer to all your points, but for what it is work you might want to check the new OSX 10.1 version of the GPU accelerated flash plug-in now available.

Cheers,
Bernard

Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #108 on: May 07, 2010, 08:50:45 pm »

I think what it really boils down to is this. Apple can be compared to Nikon (or perhaps Canon -- depending on your personal preferences), and Win can be compared to Canon (or maybe Nikon).

If you have a strong emotional attachment to one brand or the other, that will make more difference than any of the niggling differences that have been brought up in this thread so far.

I personally prefer Canon (or is it Nikon?) YMMV.

Eric

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DarkPenguin

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« Reply #109 on: May 07, 2010, 10:04:23 pm »

That's defeatist talk.  If the people in this thread just keep going at it long and hard enough they'll finally crack that mac vs pc nut.  We should encourage them in their endeavors.
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Chris_Brown

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« Reply #110 on: May 08, 2010, 09:23:19 am »

"Apple's market share is bigger than BMW's or Mercedes's or Porsche's in the automotive market. What's wrong with being BMW or Mercedes?"

"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected."

"Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."

"Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower."

"Pretty much, Apple and Dell are the only ones in this industry making money. They make it by being Wal-Mart. We make it by innovation."

"You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new."

"Why join the navy if you can be a pirate?"

~ Steve Jobs
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #111 on: May 08, 2010, 09:56:36 am »

Quote from: DarkPenguin
That's defeatist talk.  If the people in this thread just keep going at it long and hard enough they'll finally crack that mac vs pc nut.  We should encourage them in their endeavors.

... while the rest of us spend time doing photography. 
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Alan Goldhammer

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« Reply #112 on: May 08, 2010, 11:12:20 am »

Quote from: Eric Myrvaagnes
... while the rest of us spend time doing photography. 
Or wait for Lightroom to be ported to the Atari 800!
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jjj

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« Reply #113 on: May 16, 2010, 08:31:39 pm »

Quote from: Chris_Brown
"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected."

"Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
~ Steve Jobs
Well it simply deosn't even work here!!    I'm on my latest failed attempt at getting OSX to work. A fresh install of Leopard to sort out my slug like OSX 10.5.8 refused to happen, so I thought sod it lets try Snow Leopard on this machine. After SL crashed upteen times upon restarting, I finally managed to get my 10.5.4 install to commence before yet another SL crash. After a clean install, I upgraded to 10.5.8 with the combo updater and now computer has completely frozen on the restart/configure installation.
 My newish MacBook Pro had to go the Apple store 2 days back after a power management problem.
So it seems Apple aren't exactly the yardstick of quality, as there were [as usual] a very large number of people with problems at the Genius desk.

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Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #114 on: May 17, 2010, 04:23:14 pm »

Quote from: Alan Goldhammer
Or wait for Lightroom to be ported to the Atari 800!

LR never worked worth a darn on my Commodore 64. 
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AveryRagan

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« Reply #115 on: May 18, 2010, 12:24:14 am »

Personally I'm saving my bucks for one of the Dell Cray computers. It should blow the socks off of anything else out there. I have both Macs and PC's. Both give me heart burn when my wife starts using them.  
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jjj

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« Reply #116 on: May 18, 2010, 10:10:13 am »

Quote from: jjj
After SL crashed upteen times upon restarting, I finally managed to get my 10.5.4 install to commence before yet another SL crash.
It turns out the drivers for Highpoint Rocket Raid Cards that now come  pre-installed in SnowLeopard simply do not work very well.
You have to turn off any HDs plugged into the card to prevent SL crashing, which allows you time to remove old drivers and reinstall the drivers manually, just like in previous versions of OSX.
So after 2 days faffing and several visits to Apple store I now have a working computer. Now to spend another 2 installing all the software, tweaking installs and preferences. Just like a PC.    
Only reason I managed to sort problem was through using my Mac Laptop in target mode - which is very clever and not possible with Windows.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 10:11:26 am by jjj »
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Farmer

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« Reply #117 on: May 18, 2010, 07:41:55 pm »

Quote from: jjj
Only reason I managed to sort problem was through using my Mac Laptop in target mode - which is very clever and not possible with Windows.

That's actually very clever!  Only thing even close would be to use one of the self-contained *nix CDs to boot and use a PC that way or perhaps share its drives out over a network to another one.  Not as elegant or easy as target mode.

One question, though, for those who know - what security exists in target mode?  Can you take any Mac, boot it to target mode and then access the drives?
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« Reply #118 on: May 18, 2010, 10:35:23 pm »

Quote from: Farmer
Can you take any Mac, boot it to target mode and then access the drives?


Yep...no real security at all...
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #119 on: May 19, 2010, 05:44:40 pm »

Quote from: jjj
It turns out the drivers for Highpoint Rocket Raid Cards that now come  pre-installed in SnowLeopard simply do not work very well.
You have to turn off any HDs plugged into the card to prevent SL crashing, which allows you time to remove old drivers and reinstall the drivers manually, just like in previous versions of OSX.
So after 2 days faffing and several visits to Apple store I now have a working computer. Now to spend another 2 installing all the software, tweaking installs and preferences. Just like a PC.    
Only reason I managed to sort problem was through using my Mac Laptop in target mode - which is very clever and not possible with Windows.

Have you tried to install the latest vendor drivers for your Raid card?

Now that you mention it, the only time I have had stability problems with my Mac Pro was after switching to Leopard and were caused by Attos Raid card drivers.

Cheers,
Bernard
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