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Author Topic: Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th  (Read 85990 times)

Craig Lamson

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #140 on: February 04, 2010, 10:38:13 pm »

Quote from: pschefz
this is much more exciting news....


Yea film... All this talk about the V series has me a bit homesick.
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gwhitf

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #141 on: February 04, 2010, 11:09:03 pm »

Quote from: infocusinc
Yea film... All this talk about the V series has me a bit homesick.

This guy seems to feel the same way. He collects 203FE's like there's no tomorrow. He thinks it's probably the finest camera ever made, and is very loyal to the brand.

http://tinyurl.com/y8hy9ev
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vandevanterSH

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #142 on: February 04, 2010, 11:27:27 pm »

Quote from: pschefz
this is much more exciting news....

Looks like a rebadged Voigtlander Bessa III.  

Steve
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vandevanterSH

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #143 on: February 04, 2010, 11:42:50 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
This guy seems to feel the same way. He collects 203FE's like there's no tomorrow. He thinks it's probably the finest camera ever made, and is very loyal to the brand.

http://tinyurl.com/y8hy9ev

The 203-FE with the 110mm Planar /F2 is a nice combination.

Steve
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Henry Goh

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #144 on: February 04, 2010, 11:47:35 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
This guy seems to feel the same way. He collects 203FE's like there's no tomorrow. He thinks it's probably the finest camera ever made, and is very loyal to the brand.

http://tinyurl.com/y8hy9ev


LOL
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TMARK

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #145 on: February 05, 2010, 12:14:03 am »

Quote from: pschefz
the point is....compare a nikon F4 to a 3dx....you have everything the F4 ever was....but on steroids....and then some and much more on top....

we can't even start to compare MF cameras because there still is nothing over 645 (and most isn't even that....) and might never be...because there seems to be no interest in actually providing us with a digital RZ or 680 or even 500....

This is the heart of my criticism of MF Digital.
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BernardLanguillier

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #146 on: February 05, 2010, 01:17:21 am »

Quote from: pschefz
this is much more exciting news....

This baby has been available for sales in Japan for nearly one year as a 5000 unit limited edition batch. It is getting excellent reviews and I believe that it is now sold out.

cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #147 on: February 05, 2010, 01:37:09 am »

Quote from: pschefz
where is the innovation? i don't see it...all the advantages MF used to have....why is it so hard for mamiya to provide in lens shutters? they have been around for ages! what is the problem? what's with the small LCDs? there is no way someone can figure out how to put an itouch on there, or even better...make it a slide in/wifi solution....it cannot be that hard....if that costs 2000 extra....we would pay for it....we have paid much more for terrible non-solutions in the past.....and now we don't want to anymore...and don't HAVE to anymore.....

The problem is very simple: business model.

High price -> small volumes -> small R&D money.

The more high tech it is going to become, the less sense MF vendor's business model is going to make.

The challenge of mechatronics system lies in the mgt of the complex relationships between requirements, functions and physical/electronic/firmware implementations. That drives a huge level of difficulty in testing/validation and the resulting design changes. In other words, MF makers might target ambitious systems, but it is going to be increasingly harder for them to release systems that work per the specs accross a wide range of conditions.

This isn't MF bashing, it is basic engineering common sense.

There are 2 ways out of this:

1. The Leica syndrom: claim that measured engineering performance is in fact not important compared to subjective aspects like look,... The denial of the D3x DR superiority vs most backs is the most hilarious manifestation of this trend. It is only going to get worse,

2. Really change the business model by lowering prices to below 10.000 US$ for high end backs, convince large banks about the potential for ROI, and invest heavily in R&D, or more reasonnably get aquired by a large Japanese company able to commonalize technologies towards the high end.

Examples in other industries?
- Automotive: Jaguars became much better cars the day they were purchased by Ford...
- High end audio: Nuforce is trumping most other high end amplifiers costing 10 times more...
- High end graphic cards: Silicon graphics doesn't make graphic card for workstations anymore, those are based on gaming technologies,...

Cheers,
Bernard

David Grover / Capture One

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #148 on: February 05, 2010, 02:43:20 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Examples in other industries?
- Automotive: Jaguars became much better cars the day they were purchased by Ford...
Bernard

I'd argue against that...

Between Ford purchasing Jaguar in 1989 and selling it in 2008 it did not earn any profit at all.

Ford/Jaguar gave us the x-type based on the drab Mondeo platform and the X-Type never really sold as expected and was not well reviewed.

Jaguar proper gave us the E-Type and the mighty XJS.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...ar.xj-s.arp.jpg

Under Indian ownership we have the XJ.. its a funny old world!

David



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Ben Rubinstein

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #149 on: February 05, 2010, 03:02:11 am »

The XJS was one of the most badly built cars ever made, they couldn't even afford the shoestring it was built on. I assume that was the point. Under Ford they became one of the most reliable manufacturers in the business.
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KevinA

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #150 on: February 05, 2010, 04:19:18 am »

Quote from: JeffKohn
DPReview has the press release up.  Personally I find this notion of targeting high-end 35mm shooters with a camera that's priced at $20K (US) absurd. Even if dealers offer discounts, it's still likely to be more than twice as much as the D3x, which many DSLR shooters already consider overpriced. Who do they think they're kidding? (besides themselves maybe, if they think this product is actually going to convert DSLR shooters to medium format).

I found this tidbit pretty funny:



Maybe that's true for just pixel count. But DSLR's have improved a lot more than just pixel count over the years, while the MF cameras have not shown much innovation at all in the same time.

The problem with targeting high end DSLR users of which I am one is that it is a different type of camera, the reason I use high end DSLR after evaluating changing to MF is for the things it does do that MF does not do. My clients are more than happy with the quality from my system. There might be a big difference between file quality of the two systems on screen, but by the time it's become a cmyk and printed A4 or A3 what use was all that extra quality?
If I decided to shoot MF it's the stuff I would have to give up that would make the difference to my images and not for the better. Poor high iso, not being able to handhold long lenses, speed of use, ease of use and portability have been MF issues for a long time now.
I come from a film MF background, there was a clear quality advantage between MF film and 35mm easily seen at quite small output sizes, now for the common reproduced sizes I just don't see it. The idea that top end DSLR users are all frustrated MF wannabees is wrong, if they seriously want me to look at their cameras it's not more pixels that will get me looking, there needs to be a big advantage in working with the equipment, at the moment it's seriously disadvantaged. Whipping up a lack lustre hysteria and starting a Gentleman's Club for the discerning user does not fix any real issues.
Kevin.
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Dick Roadnight

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #151 on: February 05, 2010, 04:49:21 am »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Jaguar proper gave us the E-Type and the mighty XJS.

David

The only good cars Jaguar eve made were the D type and the Mk2... and the only thing they got right on the E-type was the styling.

...but this is irrelevant.

Most of us here are camera users, not shareholders, and we want Hasselblad to make good cameras (and if that enables them to stay in business and invest in development, so well and good).
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John R Smith

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #152 on: February 05, 2010, 05:26:42 am »

Jaguar never made a perfect car (apart from the Mark II, which was perfect for its looks), but Hasselblad did once make a perfect camera, the 500 C/M - perfect for its era, that is of course. And as many have noted, in those days there was clear blue water between any MF camera and even the best 35mm (yes, even Leica) in a 10 by 8 print. But Hasselblad dumped their perfect camera, even though in its 200 series incarnation it could, with some development, have incorporated auto-focus and auto-exposure and all the other stuff that everyone seems to want. And I strongly suspect that the real reason the 200 series got dumped was that it was simply too expensive to make. However, as many have also noted, it is becoming much harder for anyone, pro, amateur or manufacturer, to justify the existence of MF at all, unless your aim is to print huge pictures. In the fine art world, you might as well shoot large format and have the advantage of camera movements too. The fact that we now have only two players in the MF camera marketplace speaks for itself. And all this is not terribly good news for the makers of MF digital backs either.

Hasselblad is clinging on, it seems to me, to a very specialised but nonetheless lucrative area - the world of fashion, glamour and, to a lesser extent, product photography. All their publicity and advertising material emphasises these particular uses of the H-system camera. Ultra-real, ultra-glossy pretty much sums it up. Perhaps they can retain an advantage over the Canon-Nikon crowd in this niche market. But it is not an ideal situation for growth.

John
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 05:48:05 am by John R Smith »
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David Grover / Capture One

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #153 on: February 05, 2010, 05:34:27 am »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
The only good cars Jaguar eve made were the D type and the Mk2... and the only thing they got right on the E-type was the styling.

...but this is irrelevant.

Most of us here are camera users, not shareholders, and we want Hasselblad to make good cameras (and if that enables them to stay in business and invest in development, so well and good).

Well I was never old enough to drive an XJS.  I just used to admire one on my Paper Round.  I guess the likely hood of being able to run a car that probably did 12mpg is becoming more unlikely!
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BernardLanguillier

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #154 on: February 05, 2010, 06:28:16 am »

Quote from: Ben Rubinstein
The XJS was one of the most badly built cars ever made, they couldn't even afford the shoestring it was built on. I assume that was the point. Under Ford they became one of the most reliable manufacturers in the business.

That was indeed the point.

Not only are they reliable, but they have been able to embrace the latest technologies... and are arguably on the forefront of what luxury sport cars could be.

I believe that they would not be there had they remained an independant niche player.

Cheers,
Bernard

John R Smith

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #155 on: February 05, 2010, 07:07:17 am »

Hasselblad have a design and manufacturing partnership with Fuji, who are not exactly small players in the digital and lens field. Just like Jaguar and Ford, really. So I don't quite see the point.
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BernardLanguillier

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #156 on: February 05, 2010, 08:45:00 am »

Quote from: John R Smith
Hasselblad have a design and manufacturing partnership with Fuji, who are not exactly small players in the digital and lens field. Just like Jaguar and Ford, really. So I don't quite see the point.

Fuji does the lenses, that's it.

Besides, Jaguar was probably the least relevant example of the bunch.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 08:45:47 am by BernardLanguillier »
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David Grover / Capture One

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #157 on: February 05, 2010, 09:18:49 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Not only are they reliable, but they have been able to embrace the latest technologies... and are arguably on the forefront of what luxury sport cars could be.

Think I might argue with that as well!  
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gwhitf

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #158 on: February 05, 2010, 09:20:51 am »

Quote from: John R Smith
Hasselblad have a design and manufacturing partnership with Fuji, who are not exactly small players in the digital and lens field.

I always wanted to cut the Imacon logo sticker off of my old Imacon Flextight Photo scanner, and tape it over the logo on the H bodies. Compared to the film Hasselblads, the H body always felt more Imacon than Hasselblad.

(And if anyone knows of a mint Flextight Photo, I'm sure looking).

- Barney Rubble

PS. If making money and staying alive is the goal of any large business, and Hasselblad sees the 5DMarkII absolutely flying off the shelves, hard to find even months after the ship date, someone tell me why Hasselblad wouldn't want to have at least one model that followed in the spirit of the 5DMarkII? Just one model? And I'm not talking video here at all; I'm just talking Fast and Nimble and somewhat Minimalist. Bad analogy -- but something easy, like a Camry or a RAV4 -- fast on its feet, and not overburdened with features that drive up the price. Hasselblad can still make the Lexus, in the 50-60MP range, but why not something to compete in this New World of incredibly fast turnaround and even a non-print world? Let's look to the real future here -- which does not include an argument between an 8x10 print and a 40x60 print -- were' talking about a New World of no print at all! Think 72dpi; think iPad. Everywhere I look, that is where the world is heading. My position is: This is not an argument between Hasselblad and Canon/Nikon -- this is an argument about Old World versus New World, which requires everyone to really step back and see how fast things are changing.

This about sums it up -- a hollow hardbound book that's designed to be a carrying case for the Apple Tablet:  http://longlivebooks.com/index.html

I just can't help from feeling that, when I see Phase and Hasselblad marching forward (backward?) deeper into the Megapixel Cold War, the car analogy that I think of is the Hummer. Yes, it'll take on anything and everything, but running at an inefficient and expensive six miles per gallon, how long will the mass market want that?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 09:49:40 am by gwhitf »
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BernardLanguillier

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #159 on: February 05, 2010, 09:43:01 am »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Think I might argue with that as well!  

That's just what the best selling US based car magazine was writing last month in their super high end performance article. Now, what do they know.

Cheers,
Bernard
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