rumor: Pentax 645D Price: $6500 USD

[tsjanik]

I've been following the 645D announcements for years (literally)!  I'm not sure where the $6500 estimate originated, but the only estimate I've seen from a Pentax spokesperson indicated that they wanted to keep the 645D at one million yen ($11,000). Sorry don't have the reference.  But $6500 sounds way too low.

[Steve Hendrix]

That is the key thing right there -- the secret sauce. Do they have it? I have my doubts. (Look at Leica).

There are a million questions.

But without telling David Grover this, my feeling is that this Pentax camera will be a massive success if it does nothing more than make Hasselblad sit up and take notice that there is a market for a stripped-down, fast-shooting H camera/back, that's comparable in price to a D3x, or even five grand higher.

For me, Phase has gone off in another direction, chasing megapixels and trying to hit the $100,000 mark for a camera/back. But for Hasselblad, I still have high hopes. But whatever it is, with any brand, it's got to be under $10k for basic kit, out the door. Including floor mats. We all live in a sub-$10k world right now, and it's not going to change any time soon.

I don't see how Phase One is accused of chasing megapixels when Hasselblad (attempts) to produce the same resolution sensors. Both companies strive to improve their camera systems and add functionality to their products.


Steve Hendrix

[Steve Hendrix]

I've been following the 645D announcements for years (literally)!  I'm not sure where the $6500 estimate originated, but the only estimate I've seen from a Pentax spokesperson indicated that they wanted to keep the 645D at one million yen ($11,000). Sorry don't have the reference.  But $6500 sounds way too low.

I agree.

When I saw 40MP and $6,500 in the same sentence, I thought - One of those is wrong.

But maybe not, we'll find out Thursday.

I am all for it in either case. Pentax? Sure, why not?


Steve Hendrix

[pschefz]

With the Aptus-II 5 Phase/Leaf have the only 22 megapixel sensor in a back still being made new (with full warranty, modern firmware, beautiful LCD, modern speed etc). The Aptus-II comes with a body and lens for $9,990; the system has a proven track record, attractive upgrade paths, and assurance of future development.

Just because Phase One has the only shipping 60 megapixel back (P65+) for the last 18 months does not mean they are only chasing high resolution. They also (re)invented pixel binnning to allow that flagship back to shoot 15 megapixel files at ISO3200 at 1.4 frames per second.

Having a RANGE of digital backs and developing both the low and high ends means better upgrade paths for customers, and the ability to service a broader range of customers.

Doug Peterson
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this is the "let's drool over something not announced yet, so we really have no clue but lets drool anyway" thread...
but since you bring it up: the back/camera solution is the same chip that is/was in the failed ZD and they sold it cheaper years ago....at a time when hass (can't believe i am about to say something positive now) is doing the right thing by "buying a market" in dumping old stock H3 31 at 9990 i would not bring up that combo....
phase/leaf should bring that out NOW at 5000 or 6000....get some people to commit...yes it is a great combo but let's face it...who will buy it even at that? used prices are way below that, hass h3d 31 is a much better deal and who knows what this pentax will and can do.....there is no time to find out....

there is a bcooter guy here who is saying what we are hearing from clients NOW and in a year from today we will shake our heads if there is a pro camera without raw video...because once a 30mipx canon/nikon hits with raw video, even the slightest argument about IQ and DR and what not is out the window, unless you really only shoot trees to blow them up to 40x60 or you are just the person who never drives the ferrari over 50mph but just want to have one....

[Steve Hendrix]

this is the "let's drool over something not announced yet, so we really have no clue but lets drool anyway" thread...
but since you bring it up: the back/camera solution is the same chip that is/was in the failed ZD and they sold it cheaper years ago....at a time when hass (can't believe i am about to say something positive now) is doing the right thing by "buying a market" in dumping old stock H3 31 at 9990 i would not bring up that combo....
phase/leaf should bring that out NOW at 5000 or 6000....get some people to commit...yes it is a great combo but let's face it...who will buy it even at that? used prices are way below that, hass h3d 31 is a much better deal and who knows what this pentax will and can do.....there is no time to find out....

there is a bcooter guy here who is saying what we are hearing from clients NOW and in a year from today we will shake our heads if there is a pro camera without raw video...because once a 30mipx canon/nikon hits with raw video, even the slightest argument about IQ and DR and what not is out the window, unless you really only shoot trees to blow them up to 40x60 or you are just the person who never drives the ferrari over 50mph but just want to have one....

The Aptus II 5 has actually been selling very well at $7,995, or $9,995 for the camera bundle.

It has quite a few advantages over an H3DII-31, including larger sensor, ability to go on many cameras, including view cameras effectively, which is not recommended for the 31MP sensor. It is fully supported with Capture One file and tethered compatibility. It is a Dalsa sensor. IMO, it produces more accurate color and captures difficult tones better than the 31MP sensor. It has the most advanced LCD functionality of any digital back on the market. The 31MP sensor shoots nicer high ISO but starts at ISO 100. The Aptus II 5 offers ISO 25, 50, etc. For some, these are pluses.

Not putting down the H3DII-31 (we sell the same chip in the P30+) just saying the Aptus II 5 at it's current price point is generating a lot of interest and moving well, and offers it's own positives. Just not for everyone.



Steve Hendrix

[vandevanterSH]

there is a bcooter guy here who is saying what we are hearing from clients NOW and in a year from today we will shake our heads if there is a pro camera without raw video...because once a 30mipx canon/nikon hits with raw video, even the slightest argument about IQ and DR and what not is out the window, unless you really only shoot trees to blow them up to 40x60 or you are just the person who never drives the ferrari over 50mph but just want to have one....
[/quote]

I don't want video, I like to shoot trees and I drive my Ferrari faster than 50mph.  I guess that there are still a few old people who don't want video.

Steve

[pschefz]

The Aptus II 5 has actually been selling very well at $7,995, or $9,995 for the camera bundle.

It has quite a few advantages over an H3DII-31, including larger sensor, ability to go on many cameras, including view cameras effectively, which is not recommended for the 31MP sensor. It is fully supported with Capture One file and tethered compatibility. It is a Dalsa sensor. IMO, it produces more accurate color and captures difficult tones better than the 31MP sensor. It has the most advanced LCD functionality of any digital back on the market. The 31MP sensor shoots nicer high ISO but starts at ISO 100. The Aptus II 5 offers ISO 25, 50, etc. For some, these are pluses.

Not putting down the H3DII-31 (we sell the same chip in the P30+) just saying the Aptus II 5 at it's current price point is generating a lot of interest and moving well, and offers it's own positives. Just not for everyone.



Steve Hendrix

i would prefer the larger chip as well....
none of these mount on the rollei and rotate, right?

[gwhitf]

I don't want video, I like to shoot trees and I drive my Ferrari faster than 50mph.  I guess that there are still a few old people who don't want video.

I understand, and I think we're going to see a further splitting of the camps here. Down one fork in the road we have:

30"x40", at 300dpi, 16bit, Adobe98RGB.

And down the other road, we have The Working Chumps, who, in the near future will need only:

1024 pixels wide, at 72dpi, 8bit, at 24fps, sRGB.

That is quite the fork in the road. But my position is: Hasselblad hopefully would fulfill both customers. Although I guess, with CCD, they're going to have a tough time delivering video.

[DarkPenguin]

It is listed on the DPreview main page.  $9,400 worth o yen.

[dwood]

announcement link - $9.4k

[uaiomex]

Old fashion MLU dedicated button in a totally modern japanese-style digital 40mp MF body for $9K usd!
I must be dreaming!
Eduardo

[paul_jones]

can anyone find in the specs that it will be able to use the older leaf shutter lenses (as leaf shutter).?

[pschefz]

DNG
11 point af
weatherproof with 70 seals
accepts ALL pentax lenses (also leaf shuttter?)
14bit
200-1000iso (expand to 100-1600)
a new designed, announced, weather proof 55mm 2.8 medium format lens FOR 1100$?
jpeg with looks in camera
3" 920000 pixel sceen
dust removal mechanism!
800 shots on one battery

this sounds like a canon/nikon with a large CCD sensor!

japan only for now....can this be some kind of kodak political thing (we'll give you the sensor but you can't sell it in EU and USA)?......start the imports

[mattlap2]

I hope most didn't miss this line from the press release ........

The camera will initially be available only in the Japanese market at a suggested retail price of ¥850,000 (~ US $9,400) from May 2010.

[Doug Peterson]

there is a bcooter guy here who is saying what we are hearing from clients NOW and in a year from today we will shake our heads if there is a pro camera without raw video...because once a 30mipx canon/nikon hits with raw video, even the slightest argument about IQ and DR and what not is out the window, unless you really only shoot trees to blow them up to 40x60 or you are just the person who never drives the ferrari over 50mph but just want to have one....

Yep. All photographers everywhere will have to shoot raw video and will have to shoot it with the same camera as they shoot their macro product photography, location high-sync-speed fashion, nighttime architectural shots, and studio portraits.

Either that or photography will continue to be a spectrum of different specialists, generalists, owners, and renters and various types of equipment will still be the best tool for various types of shooters and various types of shooting.

Doug Peterson
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[mhecker*]

In the old 645 film days and with current Pentax APS SLR's street price was about 10%
less than MSRP.  

So after the furor dies this could be an $8500 camera,
That would make it very competitive, especially if the HDR feature works well...    

[pschefz]

Yep. All photographers everywhere will have to shoot raw video and will have to shoot it with the same camera as they shoot their macro product photography, location high-sync-speed fashion, nighttime architectural shots, and studio portraits.

Either that or photography will continue to be a spectrum of different specialists, generalists, owners, and renters and various types of equipment will still be the best tool for various types of shooters and various types of shooting.

Doug Peterson
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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it's not about having to shoot video...or even wanting to....the 5DII is proof that video was an afterthought for canon as well....
it's not like you decide to get a cell phone because it does NOT let you check your email.....

we have no clue what this pentax is really like, but just from the specs we can tell that these guys really read what people actually want in a DMF camera....we will see how it plays out but i don't know why this pentax should be a dud....
and just like they put in 11 AF points, a DSLR like LCD, weather proofing, DNG and sensor cleaning while going head to head with nikon/canon.... and seem to be willing to keep the lenses within reach as well, they just might through in video in the next version....


i also think that photography USED to be a field as wide as you are describing with tools as wide ranging....
now the only option larger then 35mm we have is 2 different systems based on 645, with only a few sensors even close to fullfilling even that promise.....
the specialists, generalists, owners and renters you are referring to can choose between....a barely 645 mamiya or barely 645 hasselblad...no WLF anymore (without a vertical image the hass option does not really count)....
and again: i don't see how throwing video into the mix takes anything AWAY from these very generic options....

you might have noticed that i asked steve a question before: can i put the larger 22 mpix leaf 5 on a rollei? and rotate the back? i know i can put it on a RZ...i have been down that road....it makes you cry every time you look down that beautiful WLF only to see it cropped to death.....there are no options anymore....

and i know that phase backs can be put on the rollei via special order...not sure if they rotate.....but either way, i won't shoot a back anymore that locks me into one software, no matter how solid it is....workflow is so much more then raw conversion....

[smoody]

"a large 3.0-inch color LCD monitor with approximately 921,000 dots" -- that's going to make some people on this forum very happy.

I wonder when it'll be available outside Japan.

[BernardLanguillier]

In the old 645 film days and with current Pentax APS SLR's street price was about 10%
less than MSRP.  

So after the furor dies this could be an $8500 camera,
That would make it very competitive, especially if the HDR feature works well...    

Why would they need an HDR feature in the first place since it is the same sensor used by the H4D40???

Cheers,
Bernard

[ndevlin]

The most interesting tid-bit so far is that the ISO in the specs listed by dpreview is 200-1000, suggesting an entirely new sensor, perhaps?

Like Michael said, the "digital magic" inside the camera is as important as the hardware but, unlike Mamiya and Contax, who both blew digital quite spectacularly, pentax is a proven performer with years of experience. The imagine-engine in this camera appears to be adapted from their 35mm line-up, which bodes well for image quality and system performance/stability.

Also interesting that put automatic sensor cleaning on it - another MF first.

Let the games begin....my 100-300 FA zoom can't wait to meet the 645D

- N.