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Author Topic: Franke & Heidecke became insovent  (Read 188760 times)

jing q

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #200 on: June 11, 2009, 09:21:37 pm »

Quote from: carstenw
It looks bad, but in fact the article hasn't said that the show was over yet, and as already mentioned, Jenoptik owns the rights to the Hy6, so if Franke&Heidecke are too expensive to keep afloat, due to old loans, someone else could theoretically take over. Let's wait and see what happens. The insolvency deadline is July 1st, and the court case is scheduled for the end of July.

ok you wait and let's see
a company like mamiya needs years just to come out with a single leaf shutter lens and it's still not out
an insolvent company will probably just take another decade to come up with something worthwhile
in the meantime I'll go shoot with a camera system that's actually still in production and being supported.
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vgogolak

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« Reply #201 on: June 11, 2009, 10:19:31 pm »

Quote from: gwhitf
Don't you know that Phase One is wishing they were Catholic, so they could conjure up an annulment with Mamiya! Don't you know they're slapping themselves in the forehead, and making that Homer Simpson "Doh" sound. "Why did we marry the Runt, when we could have married the pick of the litter?" A Phase back on an Hy6; now there's something to get excited about. And for Phase, the commute for the meetings is much more appealing; they could make the meeting and be home by dinnertime.

I don't know if it was due to [one of three theroies] that Phase One did not close on the deal they REALLY wanted; to acquire the Contax 645 line.
[Reasons put forward; 1. Kyocera wanted too much money 2. Kyocera wanted the manufacturing to stay in Japan 3. Phase just didn't have the finances. I sort of think all three...]

Too bad. However, many of us are quite happy with the old Contax..

regards
Victor
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Leonardo Barreto

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« Reply #202 on: June 11, 2009, 11:28:08 pm »

Afi/Hy6 is not better for Phase One than Mamiya because it is the wrong format. All current Phase backs are 645 or smaller. The Afi/Hy6 is 6x6 format so they would be only partially compatible. Mamiya was a major player in MF in the era of film, they only made that --and some golf equipment, I think--. They had a 6x7, 6x6 range finder, a 6x6 twin lens reflex with interchangeable lenses, the 6x7 RB, the RZ 67 and a full 645 system. I think they where one of the first with that format. The AFD is probably the longest in production 645 system. In Japan I saw a Hasselblad that had the Fujifilm logo. That is probably why they have been able to survive where the majority of other camera makers have gone under. I have had 4 different Mamiya systems, from twin lens reflex to RZ II and AFD and I have never had one failed to work.

Development in this field is sloooow probably for a reason. It is a very difficult market with an elite user base. There are probably little resources and mistakes can cost the life of the brand. Mamiya almost went down with the ZD camera and back... Hasselblad gambled with the closing of their system and got more time in the game. Afi/Hy6 continue to play and are sitting at the table. We can only wait and see their next move..
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jimgolden

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« Reply #203 on: June 12, 2009, 01:13:36 am »

i can guarantee it wont be a 6x6 sensor ; )
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David Grover / Capture One

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« Reply #204 on: June 12, 2009, 02:54:01 am »

Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
...In Japan I saw a Hasselblad that had the Fujifilm logo. That is probably why they have been able to survive where the majority of other camera makers have gone under...

This has nothing to do with our 'survival'.  Fuji is a partner to us and we make GX645 bodies for them in Sweden.  Suffice to say they sell in relatively low numbers with the majority of the Japanese market choosing the Hasselblad brand for purchase.

I would prefer to think our 'survival' (and we are doing much more than that) is attributed to the products we make.

As for progress being slow please take a look at the kind of products made as late as 2003 and then what we have today.

David

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David Grover
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Dustbak

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« Reply #205 on: June 12, 2009, 03:02:31 am »

Slow or fast progress is highly subjective and totally depending on the things you are comparing with each other. I think it is safe to say at this moment Hasselblad has made the right moves the last couple of years where the Afi/Hy6 camp have not. It would be sad if this camera system would disappear, I believe it would be a bad thing for the entire MF market which includes both Hasselblad as well as Phase.

As for my opinion on the pace of progress; not nearly fast enough. There are lots of things where I can imagine improvement but I am known to be a very impatient man  
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 03:03:33 am by Dustbak »
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O.Ricter

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« Reply #206 on: June 12, 2009, 07:02:21 am »

Quote from: gwhitf
I agree with this sentiment. I think you'll begin to see more Top End, and more Bottom End, and less Middle of the Road Beige.

P65, P45; Canon and Nikon. Everything else gets lost in the blur.


I DONT UNDERSTAND YOU THINK PHASE ONE WILL STAY IN BUSINESS??

Did you know that Phase One had a decrease in Turn Over in 2008 of 14 mill EUR?

They are more than 30% down compared to 2007. This is public information!


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CBarrett

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #207 on: June 12, 2009, 07:28:33 am »

Quote from: O.Ricter
I DONT UNDERSTAND YOU THINK PHASE ONE WILL STAY IN BUSINESS??

Did you know that Phase One had a decrease in Turn Over in 2008 of 14 mill EUR?

They are more than 30% down compared to 2007. This is public information!


Considering the state of the international economy, that's not too surprising.  I expect you're going to see a lot of companies dipping down to a point of no likely return and bouncing back.

I think the P65+ and P40+ are going to do quite well for them.  Of course, I could be a little biased since I just gave them 40k.
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Leonardo Barreto

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« Reply #208 on: June 12, 2009, 08:52:53 am »

Yes, when things are bad is the weakest inhabitants of the ecosystem that get extinct, the ones with the most fat get skinny but inherit the market share of the ones that go away.

There is also a factor in user acceptance of this and any other product and it is a psychological one. We get the equipment that makes us feel more secure in our professional assignments, and why not say it, the most pride for our money. That is a plus of names like Hasselblad. We also want to go with the standard brands because they are the ones that will be there in the future. I wonder if the number of Afi/Hy6 adopters whent up after the insolvency news, or now with more signs of brake down of actual production of the system...

Quote from: CBarrett
Considering the state of the international economy, that's not too surprising.  I expect you're going to see a lot of companies dipping down to a point of no likely return and bouncing back.

I think the P65+ and P40+ are going to do quite well for them.  Of course, I could be a little biased since I just gave them 40k.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 08:55:47 am by Leonardo Barreto »
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ThierryH

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« Reply #209 on: June 12, 2009, 09:48:08 am »

If I may intervene and give my opinion, I would say that nothing much is said in this "Photoscala" report.

It is presumed that production has stopped, that delivery of products has stopped as well, etc .... without any prove of it or an official announcement or statement.
Even the "Insolvency Period" to be finished by July 01st and the final decision by July 27th are given by some "sources".

Even in the case all the above is correct, there can still be a take-over taking place before any effective closure decision.

I would refrain from taking any conclusion before it is announced by the official way.

Best regards,
Thierry
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 09:49:17 am by ThierryH »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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uaiomex

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« Reply #210 on: June 12, 2009, 01:05:58 pm »

Two reasons to expect for the right CFV back are the matching V look and no connecting cables but I could live without these features.  I'm waiting because I don't have that kind of money yet. A P65 is waaaay out of my league. To say the truth, my goal these days is to buy a used 22mp back most likely P1. I was considering a used Sinar to later buy a Hy6, but as we all know....
Hey! is that true? Capture One has lens corrections for various CF lenses? I didn't know that. Beautiful, fantastic !.  Which lenses?
Thx
Eduardo

Quote from: dougpetersonci
Why wait around for them? You can buy the (already shipping) very large sensor Phase One P65+ to put on your Hassy V system today. As a plus you get Capture One lens corrections for many classic Hasselblad lenses.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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tho_mas

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« Reply #211 on: June 12, 2009, 01:30:38 pm »

Quote from: uaiomex
Which lenses?
[attachment=14488:c1lens.jpg]
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JDG

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« Reply #212 on: June 12, 2009, 03:08:17 pm »

Quote from: O.Ricter
I DONT UNDERSTAND YOU THINK PHASE ONE WILL STAY IN BUSINESS??

Did you know that Phase One had a decrease in Turn Over in 2008 of 14 mill EUR?

They are more than 30% down compared to 2007. This is public information!


Yes, but you fail to mention that even with down sales they still managed to turn a profit.... the same cannot be said for many companies in these times.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 03:08:49 pm by JDG »
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markowich

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« Reply #213 on: June 12, 2009, 05:43:00 pm »

actualy, i am seriously worried for LEAF. my Aptus 10 with H1 mount was promised for march and has still not been delivered.
the explanation peartree london gave me is that they wanted to build the AFI mount backs first.....
this conveys the feeling that something is utterly wrong with LEAF. i am thinking of changing over to P65.
peter

Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
Yes, when things are bad is the weakest inhabitants of the ecosystem that get extinct, the ones with the most fat get skinny but inherit the market share of the ones that go away.

There is also a factor in user acceptance of this and any other product and it is a psychological one. We get the equipment that makes us feel more secure in our professional assignments, and why not say it, the most pride for our money. That is a plus of names like Hasselblad. We also want to go with the standard brands because they are the ones that will be there in the future. I wonder if the number of Afi/Hy6 adopters whent up after the insolvency news, or now with more signs of brake down of actual production of the system...
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Leonardo Barreto

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« Reply #214 on: June 12, 2009, 06:54:45 pm »

If I was Leaf I would hire Thierry to reassure customers that are thinking on spending large sums of money in times of skinny cows we live in. Just look at how responsive Hasselblad is in this forum. As you say "conveys the feeling  that something is utterly wrong", when you need exactly the opposite...  

Quote from: markowich
actualy, i am seriously worried for LEAF. my Aptus 10 with H1 mount was promised for march and has still not been delivered.
the explanation peartree london gave me is that they wanted to build the AFI mount backs first.....
this conveys the feeling that something is utterly wrong with LEAF. i am thinking of changing over to P65.
peter
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H1/A75 Guy

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« Reply #215 on: June 12, 2009, 07:45:51 pm »

Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
If I was Leaf I would hire Thierry to reassure customers that are thinking on spending large sums of money in times of skinny cows we live in. Just look at how responsive Hasselblad is in this forum. As you say "conveys the feeling  that something is utterly wrong", when you need exactly the opposite...
I don't know if Leaf needs Thierry for re-assurance. I still am happy as a clam with my AFi II 7 sans dedicated focusing screen for the WLF. I'm still happy with my Polaroid 600SE (Goose) and how long ago did they stop making that? It's just cameras, it's just money. When you die you go with nothing.

David

Anything is better than that Hasselblad POC (Piece of Crap).
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 07:51:38 pm by H1/A75 Guy »
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uaiomex

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« Reply #216 on: June 12, 2009, 08:00:49 pm »

Thanks so much for the chart. There are 2 CF 40mm, the IF and the non IF.  There are 2 CF 50mm. The one with one focusing ring (older) and the one with 2 focusing rings. Which one? Both?  I also noticed the CF 150 is not on the list. Maybe it doesn't need any correction. Thanks
Eduardo

Quote from: tho_mas
[attachment=14488:c1lens.jpg]
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 08:02:17 pm by uaiomex »
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AndreNapier

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« Reply #217 on: June 12, 2009, 08:09:20 pm »

David,
It is great to finally hear that someone is happy with the AFI. At least all the R&D money did not go for nothing.
I am also happy because I got my AFI to Rz adapter. That makes two happy AFI users.
andre
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #218 on: June 12, 2009, 08:49:52 pm »

Quote from: uaiomex
I was considering a used Sinar to later buy a Hy6, but as we all know....

Well we don't know anything yet! I guess we will in a month or so.
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #219 on: June 12, 2009, 08:51:29 pm »

Quote from: AndreNapier
David,
It is great to finally hear that someone is happy with the AFI. At least all the R&D money did not go for nothing.
I am also happy because I got my AFI to Rz adapter. That makes two happy AFI users.
andre

There are many happy users here. I'm still planning to get one when I can, assuming a solution is worked out for F&H and production continues.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 05:59:45 am by foto-z »
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