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Author Topic: Franke & Heidecke became insovent  (Read 188846 times)

Graham Mitchell

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #160 on: March 08, 2009, 08:57:01 am »

Quote from: carstenw
only Phase has a T/S lens, but it has corners softer than down pillows, and so on.

Just fyi, there is a well-regarded 55mm TS lens for the Rollei/Hy6/AFi
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Leonardo Barreto

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #161 on: March 08, 2009, 09:42:50 am »

The first hint of trouble in Hy6 was that Thierry lost his job after promoting the system really well... the other hint is the absence of a press release stating that even after the insolvency the system will be produced normally. Not saying that there will never be such press release, but they the market is holding its breath with every day that there is no official news about the future of the system, or at least this is not going to make the Hy6/AFi more popular.

Quote from: paratom
I am still surprized about the discussion who would manufacture the Hy6 in the future based on a missunderstanding what "insolvent" means in Germany.
IMO as long as we dont hear different I think the biggest chance is that F&H would continue to produce the Hy6.
Has anybody any report or hint that the F&H facility is closed? I would be really interested if there is such information or if the whole discussion is based on speculation.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 09:43:29 am by Leonardo Barreto »
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Leonardo Barreto

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #162 on: March 08, 2009, 10:53:18 am »

Cost of the system has to be considered to

According to CALUMET web site a AFD III body only is $3,499.00
 and the Leaf AFi Body with Waist Level Finder Only is $5,999.99
Hasselblad
H2F Medium Format Auto Focus SLR Camera Body ONLY $3,250 (B&H)

... the other problem with HY6 is that if you search for it on B&H, a major pro camera store in New York, you get this "Sorry, no items were found matching your search request for "HY6". Please see the search tips below or you may want to try a new search."



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EricWHiss

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« Reply #163 on: March 08, 2009, 02:02:26 pm »

Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
Cost of the system has to be considered to

According to CALUMET web site a AFD III body only is $3,499.00
 and the Leaf AFi Body with Waist Level Finder Only is $5,999.99
Hasselblad
H2F Medium Format Auto Focus SLR Camera Body ONLY $3,250 (B&H)

... the other problem with HY6 is that if you search for it on B&H, a major pro camera store in New York, you get this "Sorry, no items were found matching your search request for "HY6". Please see the search tips below or you may want to try a new search."


Never could figure out those calumetphoto prices - if you do a key word search your find several listings of the same item often at wildly different prices.   I wouldn't build a case from just a quick glance at their website.    Rollei gear has the reputation of being higher in cost, but when you take a look at some of the new pricing on the H lenses or Mamiya - heck they all are expensive.  Just wait until Leica comes out with the S2 lenses!


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Graham Mitchell

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #164 on: March 08, 2009, 02:21:00 pm »

Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
Cost of the system has to be considered to

According to CALUMET web site a AFD III body only is $3,499.00
 and the Leaf AFi Body with Waist Level Finder Only is $5,999.99
Hasselblad
H2F Medium Format Auto Focus SLR Camera Body ONLY $3,250 (B&H)

... the other problem with HY6 is that if you search for it on B&H, a major pro camera store in New York, you get this "Sorry, no items were found matching your search request for "HY6". Please see the search tips below or you may want to try a new search."

Strange... I just checked some random German prices as a comparison. The Hy6 is cheaper than the Mamiya according to these.

Mamiya 645 AFD III: € 3,393
(see http://www.ac-foto.com/ac/shop/shop.php?in...a2a137171679a8b )

Sinar Hy6: € 3.278,00
(see http://shop.strato.de/epages/15493234.sf/d...hy6/hy6_kameras )


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Neil Folberg

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #165 on: March 08, 2009, 02:41:53 pm »

As a long time Rollei user I was saddened to hear of Franke & Heidecke´s insolvency. As the new owner of an AFi-II 7 that is doubly difficult news. However, I have heard from a source in Leaf with whom I have been working that the news may not be as bleak as it sounds, since F&H is still producing AFi bodies for Leaf who is shipping to their distributors. They´re hoping the situation will be clearer in a week or so and they can provide substantive news soon.

Neil Folberg
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uaiomex

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #166 on: March 08, 2009, 03:13:28 pm »

Let's pray
Eduardo

Quote from: Neil Folberg
As a long time Rollei user I was saddened to hear of Franke & Heidecke´s insolvency. As the new owner of an AFi-II 7 that is doubly difficult news. However, I have heard from a source in Leaf with whom I have been working that the news may not be as bleak as it sounds, since F&H is still producing AFi bodies for Leaf who is shipping to their distributors. They´re hoping the situation will be clearer in a week or so and they can provide substantive news soon.

Neil Folberg
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Leonardo Barreto

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #167 on: March 08, 2009, 05:02:17 pm »

I have decided to become an observer -at least for the moment- and stop commenting on this topic. Apparently my posts are giving the impression that I have an ax to grind, that I work for Hasselblad or who knows what. I want to be on the record that this is not so -of course-.

I have always -since I was a child- liked to take machines apart and see how they where constructed. I am a fan of well designed gadgets and have issues with ones that --according to me are not --  When the AFi/Hy6 first came out I had the opinion that the design was not the best, but this is just an opinion and a personal one.

Now that we find out that Thierry lost his job at SINAR/Hy6 and F&H became insolvent, I wanted to say "i told you so", but as we can see here, things are not so simple and I got in to the argument for the argument sake. (and sometimes my arguments where not backed up by the best research)

Since I don't have anything against Sinar/Leaf/F&H or people that work with them I will just sit, wait and hope the best for them in this difficult times.

take care everybody
Leonardo Barreto
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ThierryH

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« Reply #168 on: March 09, 2009, 01:25:24 am »

Thanks EPd!

Yes, I won't make any public comment about the reasons of the termination of my contract by Sinar, but I can certainly say that it is in no way related to F&H's or the Hy6's current situation.

"Wrong place - Wrong moment" seems to be appropriate.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: EPd
And about Thierry's leave: he is probably not going to comment in public, but my information tells me that his termination of contract is not in any way particularly related to the Hy6. It seems more of a situation of being at the wrong place in the company at the wrong moment (economically speaking). Very sad coincidence of the powers that be.
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tomholland

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« Reply #169 on: March 09, 2009, 03:47:17 am »

Support seems to be fine, I have a new body arrived today due to a bad lcd on the camera =)
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Rune Werner Molnes

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« Reply #170 on: March 09, 2009, 05:23:35 am »

(I have not bothered reading through this entire thread to check if someone has recieved something similar to the information below).

Anyway,

Good news...or promises as such:

I had a somewhat reassuring conversation with a key representative from Leaf Europe, telling me that a lot is happening behind the scenes to sort out the troubles at F&H. All the companies in the consortium, e.g. Sinar, Leaf/Kodak, Jenoptik etc are wanting the same outcome, which is to continue production of the AFi/Hy6 cameras & lenses. He also mentioned that no matter what the outcome should be, we can be confident that there will be support for existing customers also in the future. (Time will show.)

However, I am sure that they will manage to work something out and continue production, development and support. In the best interest of current AFi/Hy6 owners.

Best Regards,

Rune Werener Molnes
www.runemolnes.com
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mcfoto

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #171 on: March 13, 2009, 07:09:06 pm »

pdn news march 11,2009
http://www.pdnpulse.com/2009/03/medium-pan...insolvency.html

Quote; British Journal Of Photography
(Last week, the Germany-based company announced that it is going into administration after being unable to pay its bills.

Franke & Heidecke develops products for the legendary Rolleiflex twin-lens camera system, plus it produces a 6x6 camera for both Sinar and Leaf, which respectively market it under the Hy6 and AFi product names.

Many are now asking how this will affect Sinar and Leaf – especially as the two are currently in talks about co-distribution. Talking to BJP, a spokeswoman at Sinar says that the Swiss-family business, which is owned by German manufacturer Jenoptik, is closely monitoring the situation. 'We are still receiving cameras,' she says. 'Production has not shut down and we will be looking at what is going on and what alternatives there are [in case the firm does go under].'

Leaf, also contacted by BJP, has released a statement to reassure its customers that its camera system is still and will continue to be available. 'Leaf management is in constant communication and working closely with Jenoptik and Franke & Heidecke management. They are updating us frequently as the story unfolds,' the statement says. 'Regardless of any rumours in the industry, the Franke & Heidecke manufacturing plant is operating normally and will continue to operate while Franke & Heidecke works with their creditors to reach agreement on the best way forward. While this process advances, production of Leaf AFi parts and components continues. To further ensure that Franke & Heidecke continues operating efficiently, an interim administrator has been appointed to evaluate the Franke & Heidecke business. What this means is that we will continue delivering Leaf AFi-II camera systems, lenses and accessories.'

Leaf adds that, in parallel to the actions being taken by Franke & Heidecke, it 'is investigating all possible opportunities to ensure that Leaf can achieve its goals. This effort includes urgent work with Jenoptik, F&H, our sales managers and dealers worldwide.

The financial troubles at Franke & Heidecke comes six months after the firm partnered with Hans R Schmid Beteiligungs to finance an increase in its production of camera systems and lenses, after being forced to seek new investment. However, by January this year the company appeared to be running into trouble after it announced that its chief executive officer would leave the company following disagreements with the new partner, who had become the majority shareholder as part of the investment deal.

'In view of different views regarding past and future policies and cooperation with the new partner Hans R Schmid, Mr Bodo Fischer offered his resignation from the management of Franke & Heidecke, an offer that was accepted by the company,' Franke & Heidecke said in a statement.

Now, in a new statement, the company says it is being forced into administration. And, if the statement is to be taken at face value, Schmid is blameless:

‘For majority shareholder Hans R Schmid, a devoted supporter of the company’s products, who had described his commitment as a matter of personal importance, there was no alternative to filing for insolvency any more. Although it had already been obvious at the time of the take-over that a successful restructuring would cost substantial effort, Schmid accepted the responsibility and acted determinedly. Additional specialists were employed, weak points in the company were examined and millions were invested, et al, in production and quality management. Due to these measures quick progress could be made, however, the massive failures of the past could not be resolved in the required time.’

The second half of the statement is more ambiguous, insinuating that there were hidden debts, and perhaps hinting at the real reason for Fischer’s departure: ‘When recent financial and other old liabilities turned up, which had not been known to the new shareholder at the time of the take-over, it became evident that a financial reorganisation would not be possible even by investing further millions.’

It adds that ‘negotiations with important business partners, banks and the attempt to obtain public funds failed’, and ends with the suggestion that Schmid invested at least €10 million into the business: ‘In spite of considerable risk of loss the new shareholder invested repeatedly until the very end and has preserved the company and the hope to maintain 131 jobs for a long time. Now the insolvency could not be avoided any longer. In total Schmid invested millions in the two-figure range.’

Franke & Heidecke started producing the 6x6 medium format camera in May 2007 under the impulsion of Jenoptik, Leaf and Sinar. The 'open' digital platform initiative came after Hasselblad's decision to ensure that its H3D camera body is not compatible with anything except Hasselblad digital backs (BJP, 18 October 2006).

The development of the camera was, at first, largely financed by Jenoptik, which hoped to recuperate by 'franchising' the camera to Leaf, and by distributing it through its own daughter company, Sinar.

BJP will continue to monitor the situation as it unfolds.

dfsfs)



« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 08:40:10 pm by mcfoto »
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Denis Montalbetti
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Leonardo Barreto

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #172 on: March 13, 2009, 07:31:22 pm »

So, the epicenter of the PR earthquake was here, at The Luminous Landscape site/forum. And SINAR, (Jenoptik), owner of the Hy6 and AFi design decided, for no reason connected to the insolvency of F&H, un authorize Thierry, their very effective PR person very present here, at The LL, where all potential user/buyers come to research before committing to inverting the, ---and I am going to quote here Photo District News--- "The heart-stopping $35,000 price tag. " for a 33mp camera and back kit.

Production will continue, and that is good, the remaining question now is not even the insolvency of F&H, but the effect of the PR hit that this represents in projected sales targets. It seams that they where not prepared for it on one side, and on the other, that they are concern about it from reading the PDN article.



Quote from: mcfoto
pdn news march 11,2009
http://www.pdnpulse.com/2009/03/medium-pan...insolvency.html
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jps

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« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2009, 09:32:33 am »

Press statement from Sinar that is worth reading

http://www.capturescanprint.com/_pdf/2009_...nfo_F&H.pdf


Cheers John ( a happy Hy6 owner ! )
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Toby1014

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« Reply #174 on: March 14, 2009, 11:31:46 am »

Quote from: Rune Werner Molnes
I had a somewhat reassuring conversation with a key representative from Leaf Europe, telling me that a lot is happening behind the scenes to sort out the troubles at F&H. All the companies in the consortium, e.g. Sinar, Leaf/Kodak, Jenoptik etc are wanting the same outcome, which is to continue production of the AFi/Hy6 cameras & lenses.



More bad news - Eastmen Kodak in trouble ?


http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/10/news/econo..._rung/index.htm


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mcfoto

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BJL

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« Reply #176 on: March 20, 2009, 01:50:55 pm »

The last two posts have a strange connection. Leaf is owned by Kodak and is perhaps becoming the main back designer for Hy6 (that is how I understand the Leaf-Sinar cooperation), so that a division of Kodak might become the main back supplier for Hy6, though using Dalsa sensors. Also, we might be headed towards each AF MF system (Hasselblad, Hy6, Mamiya) having a single main back supplier, but with Mamiya the most open so long as the Phase One partnership does not lead it to box out Leaf.
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michael

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« Reply #177 on: March 20, 2009, 02:16:08 pm »

Kodak bought Leaf several years ago, and had little idea that they were doing so. The actually bought Creo, and Leaf was simply a small subsidiary of Creo that came with the package. The fact that Leaf uses Dalsa chips in their backs is just one of the ironies of this business.

Michael

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mosko

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« Reply #178 on: March 20, 2009, 02:31:17 pm »

Quote from: BJL
The last two posts have a strange connection. Leaf is owned by Kodak and is perhaps becoming the main back designer for Hy6 (that is how I understand the Leaf-Sinar cooperation), so that a division of Kodak might become the main back supplier for Hy6, though using Dalsa sensors. Also, we might be headed towards each AF MF system (Hasselblad, Hy6, Mamiya) having a single main back supplier, but with Mamiya the most open so long as the Phase One partnership does not lead it to box out Leaf.

  I don't think there is any chance of the Mamiya/Phase parternship boxing out Leaf as the newly announced Mamiya DL33 sports a Leaf Aptus II back.

http://www.mamiya.com/news-events-press-re...er-brother.html


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mcfoto

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Franke & Heidecke became insovent
« Reply #179 on: March 20, 2009, 02:49:49 pm »

Quote from: mosko
I don't think there is any chance of the Mamiya/Phase parternship boxing out Leaf as the newly announced Mamiya DL33 sports a Leaf Aptus II back.

http://www.mamiya.com/news-events-press-re...er-brother.html

Very true & the DL33  is very well priced at the $20,000 mark with a free 150 or 55 lens. Interesting how things turned out by Phase being locked out of the Hy6 platform,they formed an alliance with Mamiya. If Phase was part of the Hy6 platform would Franke & Heidecke be in the position that they are today? Plus the fact Hasselblad dropped there prices last September must of had some effect on the market?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 09:19:36 pm by mcfoto »
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