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Author Topic: Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs  (Read 93716 times)

Gigi

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #220 on: November 06, 2008, 07:34:39 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
I have never ever stated that you are hiding or not telling things. You are obviously either not reading correctly what I write or don't understand what I do write. The only thing I did write and let me say it again and maybe this time it will be clear to you....

Now read this again until you see that it by no means meant any harm and please stop acting like I did have this intention.

The points are valid. But the message is getting lost in the delivery. Perhaps a deep breath is in order.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 07:36:23 am by Geoffreyg »
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Geoff

Dustbak

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #221 on: November 06, 2008, 07:36:05 am »

Quote from: thsinar
By saying "I expect him to be able to say for himself what he can or cannot speak about" you imply that there are things which can't be said, by extrapolating it a bit further, that things are hidden. I simply wish that there is no confusion and stand corrected if you didn't imply any such.

Best regards,
Thierry


By saying "I expect him to be able to say for himself what he can or cannot speak about" I imply just that nothing else.

Don't try to read between my lines, ask for clarification if I don't make sense to you. I have the reputation to be bluntly upfront and outspoken. I normally don't pass out punches below the belt.
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Dustbak

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« Reply #222 on: November 06, 2008, 07:36:59 am »

Quote from: Geoffreyg
The points are valid. But the message is getting lost in the delivery. Perhaps a deep breath is in order.


Thx!  I will do that.
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thsinar

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #223 on: November 06, 2008, 07:39:14 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
Don't try to read between my lines, ask for clarification if I don't make sense to you.
I will, understood.

Quote from: Dustbak
I have the reputation to be bluntly upfront and outspoken.
Me too.

Quote from: Dustbak
I normally don't pass out punches below the belt.
Me neither.

Therefore I think we are made to understand each other. No harm in explaining.

Best regards,
Thierry
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 07:39:38 am by thsinar »
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Carsten W

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #224 on: November 06, 2008, 08:01:57 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
I talk about a 5K euro price difference between Switzerland and the Netherlands (on the Sinar 75). Which cannot be explained by import duty or VAT or shipping. My question what other thing is there is not unreasonable since I happen to have imported quite some stuff over the years including things from Switzerland.

I don't know why this goes on and on; the answer is clear: ask your distributor or go to Switzerland.
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Carsten W - [url=http://500px.com/Carste

Dustbak

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« Reply #225 on: November 06, 2008, 08:18:47 am »

Quote from: carstenw
I don't know why this goes on and on; the answer is clear: ask your distributor or go to Switzerland.

So what? I have lost my right to ask a question about a price reduction that has been mentioned about 3 weeks ago? I don't recall having asked you anything and the last time I did check, this thread was about the price reduction of Sinar products.

I think I understand that you are getting tired of this debate, in that case don't participate.
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smhoer

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #226 on: November 06, 2008, 08:19:29 am »

As someone looking to get into MFD I will put in my two cents regarding Sinar.  I contacted SinarBron USA for some pricing.  This after seeing the Hy6 at Calumet in Chicago.  I went to the SinarBron website and based on info there contacted several Sinar dealers in the US asking for pricing.  All responses were several thousand ($5,000 to $7,000) above the "OLD" sinar prices you quoted above.  When I pointed out the new pricing two dealers said it was below what they are charged by SinarBron USA.  One offered to call SinarBron.  He called me two days later and said he was told SinarBron is not implementing the new Sinar pricing.  I went to the US Customs websites and found that Cameras have no tariffs and are fully duty free.  When I contacted SinarBron I got no response after 3 emails.  You keep implying we should pressure our dealers.  If to work with your dealers we must "pressure" them than that business model is probably costing you a significant volume in sales.  I will not work with dealers that require "pressure" and distributors that do not respond to inquiries.  Gives me the impression that down the road I will be "left out to dry" when something goes wrong with the equipment.  I have chosen not to pursue any potential purchase of Sinar equipment.  I have been working with Hasselblad and Phase One dealers.  I have found them responsive and helpful.  They have also been responsive to negotiating price.  I suggest that is the model SinarBron US needs to adopt if they want to make sales.
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Scott H.
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« Reply #227 on: November 06, 2008, 08:38:37 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
So what? I have lost my right to ask a question about a price reduction that has been mentioned about 3 weeks ago?

You aren't asking, you are asking again and again, and each time you get the same answer, and still you complain. I understand that you are frustrated, but it is what it is. The real answer doesn't come from anyone in this thread. Write a nice letter to the CEO of Sinar, or write a nasty letter to your distributor, explaining that they just lost a sale, but filling up threads here doesn't change anything.
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Dustbak

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« Reply #228 on: November 06, 2008, 08:50:15 am »

Quote from: carstenw
You aren't asking, you are asking again and again, and each time you get the same answer, and still you complain. I understand that you are frustrated, but it is what it is. The real answer doesn't come from anyone in this thread. Write a nice letter to the CEO of Sinar, or write a nasty letter to your distributor, explaining that they just lost a sale, but filling up threads here doesn't change anything.


Show me other posts where I did ask about this difference please?
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gwhitf

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #229 on: November 06, 2008, 09:02:04 am »

Thierry,

Just take a moment. Try to remove yourself as a Sinar employee. Imagine that you're just Joe The Photographer, and you're shopping around for a Sinar solution.

Now. Read back over the last twenty or so posts from this thread. Again, imagine you're a photographer trying to buy Sinar.

This is what we mean when we say people are afraid of Sinar.

You gotta get somebody, anybody, to take charge, and take the reins, and speak with one voice, and set a tone for the brand, and make it simple and trustable for a buying photographer. Even in GOOD times, this thread would give someone pause, but in these trying times, even moreso the need to run a tight, cohesive ship.
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thsinar

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« Reply #230 on: November 06, 2008, 09:06:57 am »

I am only a intermediary in this case, but have been in the shoes of this Sinar customers for real, many years back: I did purchase elsewhere, already at that time.

Thierry

Quote from: gwhitf
Thierry,

Just take a moment. Try to remove yourself as a Sinar employee. Imagine that you're just Joe The Photographer, and you're shopping around for a Sinar solution.

Now. Read back over the last twenty or so posts from this thread. Again, imagine you're a photographer trying to buy Sinar.

This is what we mean when we say people are afraid of Sinar.

You gotta get somebody, anybody, to take charge, and take the reins, and speak with one voice, and set a tone for the brand, and make it simple and trustable for a buying photographer. Even in GOOD times, this thread would give someone pause, but in these trying times, even moreso the need to run a tight, cohesive ship.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #231 on: November 06, 2008, 09:39:59 am »

Keith,

that's right and well said, though it is not always easy when one is asked about openness all the time and throughout the threads. We at Sinar have understood this openness issue and shall communicate via "Newsletters" very soon and on our homepage when it comes to prices. I find it to be a right and necessary step and am not afraid to answers "hot" questions, although I perfectly know that it opens the door to much criticism.

best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: KLaban
I'd just like to make it quite clear that the above is in no way intended to be a direct criticism of Thierry, as I understand it he is here as a technical representative and that said would be well advised to limit his responses to technical matters.

My displeasure is aimed squarely at the jaw dropping lack of communication between the MFD manufactures and their partners.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Carsten W

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« Reply #232 on: November 06, 2008, 10:34:48 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
Show me other posts where I did ask about this difference please?

I am talking about this thread, not others. In general I enjoy your contributions, just so you don't get the wrong impression. I could give a list of the posts in this thread where you post about this issue, after getting the answer, but I don't think there is much point. Just look at the last page or two of posts, and see how often you are there. That is all I am talking about.

Put pressure on your distributor; clearly they deserve it, and good luck with it, but leaning hard on Thierry serves no purpose. Sinar dropped their prices, great for them. They have a network of distributors like all the others. Some of the distributors are greedy, no surprise, but it doesn't reflect on Sinar. Hopefully the planned newsletter will educate their customers enough that the greedy distributors will make significantly less sales, until their prices get back in line.

Thierry, just so I understand correctly: the roughly 6000 price for the e54LV, for example, that is a recommended sales price, meaning that there is already a reasonable amount of profit built in for the distributors, is that right?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 10:39:26 am by carstenw »
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Carsten W - [url=http://500px.com/Carste

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« Reply #233 on: November 06, 2008, 10:51:48 am »

Quote from: KLaban
...actually it does. It's up to Sinar, Leaf, Phamiya and Hasselblad to ensure that their distribution and retail partners are up to scratch.

I'll let Thierry answer properly if he wants, but I think it isn't that simple. Well qualified distributors aren't queueing up to sell MF equipment, and finding reliable, fair partners is probably difficult, especially given that good partners can change to bad ones in short periods of time. Otherwise I doubt this whole thing would be such an issue. You'd simply boot the bad guys and let someone else fill in. Long-term relationships is also something you want to nourish. You can't have one dealer sell Sinar backs for 10 years, then boot them, and expect the newly chosen distributor to handle all the servicing on the existing backs, for example. It is something of a Catch-22.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 01:54:55 pm by carstenw »
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smhoer

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #234 on: November 06, 2008, 12:47:00 pm »

In the US I believe the issue comes from having a single (probable family owned) distributor with control over pricing for the entire country (SinarBron amd Mamiya (MAC) are good examples) which prevents true price competition and allows some strange business practices.  The retailers can only negotiate so much based on SinarBron's or MAC's pricing.  In the past I have ordered Mamiya equipment overseas for huge savings.

This model prevents country wide competition on service and price as the retailer does not do the servicing and has to deal with high wholesale prices.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 12:48:12 pm by smhoer »
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Scott H.
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« Reply #235 on: November 06, 2008, 01:18:27 pm »

although i can understand the confusion as well as beeing angry about this local prices ( and i really cant understand these huge differences at least between EU countries ),
i want to remember that this is an old story and belongs to many things. i went to my pharmacy yesterday to buy some eye drops i bought several times in spain. there they cost € 3,-- so i didnt thought anything bad till the woman asked me € 24,-- in the  german pharmacy. same size, same company, same product. i discussed with her about... and there came a lot of blabla how good are the prices calucalated and this and that. really boring arguments if you see an 800% higher price for the same product.
or cars. 25% difference between countries in the EU.
many lenses i purchased from b+h, some of them i tested, didnt liked them and sold them immediately as second hand lenses    to a big camera shop in munich, without loosing one cent ( incl. transport and 7% import taxes ) cause they have been 30% or more cheaper in the US. why? no idea. and i dont care. i dont like it but looks as this is the world i am living in.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 02:01:36 pm by rainer_v »
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rainer viertlböck
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« Reply #236 on: November 06, 2008, 03:21:34 pm »

Quote from: KLaban
...actually it does. It's up to Sinar, Leaf, Phamiya and Hasselblad to ensure that their distribution and retail partners are up to scratch.


I agree, it does reflect badly on Sinar if they want to sell their backs worldwide. It's OK if they want to sell them from their front door, I'd be prepared to hop on a plane to their headquarters to get one. But, although I'm very interested in purchasing a Sinar back the UK distributor is useless. They rarely answer emails or queries. What happens if there's a problem with the back at a later date ?  It really doesn't fill one with confidence does it ?


Pete
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paulmoorestudio

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« Reply #237 on: November 06, 2008, 04:39:53 pm »

Quote from: Streetshooter
I agree, it does reflect badly on Sinar if they want to sell their backs worldwide. It's OK if they want to sell them from their front door, I'd be prepared to hop on a plane to their headquarters to get one. But, although I'm very interested in purchasing a Sinar back the UK distributor is useless. They rarely answer emails or queries. What happens if there's a problem with the back at a later date ?  It really doesn't fill one with confidence does it ?


Pete


what adds to my confusion is the fact that sinar bron imaging is a sudsidary of sinar.. whatever that entails..as well as being the sole US distributor.
I am a sinar and broncolor and foba customer for the past 20 years and I had nothing but good service from sinarbron but in this day and age I think
it is "time for change..yes we can" jargon, so I agree with the above.. as far a london goes.. wow, I was shocked at sinar's presence there 2005-2007..doesn't sound like they have it together yet... I would think that london would be a priority for sinar..seemed like a pretty big market to me  
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Streetshooter

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« Reply #238 on: November 06, 2008, 05:37:03 pm »

Quote from: paulmoorestudio
what adds to my confusion is the fact that sinar bron imaging is a sudsidary of sinar.. whatever that entails..as well as being the sole US distributor.
I am a sinar and broncolor and foba customer for the past 20 years and I had nothing but good service from sinarbron but in this day and age I think
it is "time for change..yes we can" jargon, so I agree with the above.. as far a london goes.. wow, I was shocked at sinar's presence there 2005-2007..doesn't sound like they have it together yet... I would think that london would be a priority for sinar..seemed like a pretty big market to me  


Confusion......   What's that ?    The recommended end user price from Sinar for the 54LV is  6,037 Euros. The main UK distributor wants £11,443.64  (approx 14,000 Euros).  A plane ticket to Geneva is approximately £80 return (98 Euros).

Pete
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Carl Glover

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Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs
« Reply #239 on: November 06, 2008, 05:55:45 pm »

I was told today by a Sinar UK guy that the 54LV is £4,500. Cheap.
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