Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: US Bashing...  (Read 22231 times)

Richard Grupe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
US Bashing...
« on: March 07, 2008, 09:33:24 pm »

...I'm sick of it.

"I'd also like to comment on my impressions of the state of photography in Australia. I had an opportunity while there to view work by several of that county's finest photographers, and found them to be most impressive. There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."

Good on the Aussies and bad on MR.
Logged

David Sutton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1345
    • David Sutton Photography
US Bashing...
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2008, 10:51:25 pm »

Get a grip on yourself. Someone's opinion (right or wrong) on your publishing industry is not US bashing.  Have a nice day, David
Logged

Richard Grupe

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
US Bashing...
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2008, 11:07:52 pm »

Quote
Someone's opinion (right or wrong) on your publishing industry is not US bashing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179937\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Right or wrong you are entitled to your opinion. It just doesn't coincide with mine.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 11:08:14 pm by Richard Grupe »
Logged

DarkPenguin

  • Guest
US Bashing...
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2008, 11:20:44 pm »

Jesus tap dancing christ.
Logged

David Sutton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1345
    • David Sutton Photography
US Bashing...
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2008, 11:34:44 pm »

Your thread does raise the question of the standard of photographic publishing worldwide, and my impression is that is that in general, it's not very good. Apart from a few heroic efforts here and there, it doesn't seem to really be well thought out or much above the entertainment level. Two problems spring to mind immediately though. What I am looking for in a magazine for example, is not what may interest you, and the subject matter that many of us sought in mags 20 years ago for inspiration, is now freely available on the web. David
Edit: You've got me interested enough to go back to my local bookshop and have another look
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 11:39:23 pm by Taquin »
Logged

schrodingerscat

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 374
US Bashing...
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2008, 11:44:10 pm »

Quote
...I'm sick of it.

"I'd also like to comment on my impressions of the state of photography in Australia. I had an opportunity while there to view work by several of that county's finest photographers, and found them to be most impressive. There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."

Good on the Aussies and bad on MR.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am at a loss to find anything in Michael's statement that would be construed as "bashing".  

What a warped sense of self importance. I guess the more inflated the ego, the thinner the skin. There were several brilliant photo rags, such as Picture Magazine, published here at one time or another. Guess there just wasn't enough interest in art photography to keep them afloat.

PopPhoto still around though.
Logged

kaelaria

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2223
    • http://www.bgpictures.com
US Bashing...
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 11:48:03 pm »

Somebody call a waaaaaambulance?
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
US Bashing...
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2008, 05:18:20 am »

Quote
...I'm sick of it.

"There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


And exactly what part of this honest (and accurate) assessment of the dismal state of the photo publishing industry do you disagree with? Photo book & magazine publishing sucks in the US. Want to do a fine art photo book in the US? Ya better be prepared to completely fund it and pay the publisher to produce it. Photo magazines? Outside of perhaps Camera Arts and Aperture, what magazines blow YOUR skirts up? I'm forever looking at European magazines at the book store not the US magazines because the US rags are really just vehicles not fine art photography.

The fact that YOU take offense by being told the realty of things says a lot more about your rather small & narrow world and that's from one American (to another? Don't know since you don't even mention your citizen status-which is all too typical of Americans-assuming they/we are the center of the universe).

Course, I'm writing this from London where I'm doing a spot of work and the view of America from here is not all that rosy.
Logged

RogerW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
    • http://www.rogerwalton.co.uk
US Bashing...
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2008, 05:51:55 am »

"Course, I'm writing this from London where I'm doing a spot of work and the view of America from here is not all that rosy"

While you're in UK, why not visit Yorkshire & Cumbria to see real English people?
Logged

sojournerphoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 473
US Bashing...
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2008, 06:54:46 am »

Quote
"Course, I'm writing this from London where I'm doing a spot of work and the view of America from here is not all that rosy"

While you're in UK, why not visit Yorkshire & Cumbria to see real English people?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179973\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Aye, we're certainly real oop north

Mike (in Yorkshire:))
Logged

Quentin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1222
    • Quentin on Facebook
US Bashing...
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2008, 07:50:31 am »

Quote
While you're in UK, why not visit Yorkshire & Cumbria to see real English people?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179973\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Written like a true chip-on-the-shoulder Northerner  

Quentin (Londoner and proud of it  ).
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 07:52:38 am by Quentin »
Logged
Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, Arbitrato

Jon Meddings

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
US Bashing...
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2008, 08:10:50 am »

Quote
...I'm sick of it.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm sorry but can't agree with one iota of what you stated here. I read the original both before and after your comment and to my mind there is not a shread of 'bashing' here. It is/was an honest opinion of a strength in Australia - how that can be taken as a detraction/bashing of another culture escapes me. I hope you have a chance to sleep and perhaps reflect on this comment - an apology would be nice. I think it deserved.
Logged

Satch

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
US Bashing...
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2008, 09:34:17 am »

Quote
And exactly what part of this honest (and accurate) assessment of the dismal state of the photo publishing industry do you disagree with? Photo book & magazine publishing sucks in the US. Want to do a fine art photo book in the US? Ya better be prepared to completely fund it and pay the publisher to produce it. Photo magazines? Outside of perhaps Camera Arts and Aperture, what magazines blow YOUR skirts up? I'm forever looking at European magazines at the book store not the US magazines because the US rags are really just vehicles not fine art photography.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok so the obvious and important question is WHY?
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
US Bashing...
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2008, 10:39:28 am »

Quote
Jesus tap dancing christ.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Olé

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
US Bashing...
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2008, 12:52:24 pm »

Quote
Ok so the obvious and important question is WHY?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179997\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The last few years (since 2000 or so) saw many of the smaller US boutique publishers that would take a risk, fall on hard times mixed with mismanagement (and in certain cases, fraud & misappropriation of funds). So, now it's a situation where serious photo books are done by a handful of larger publishers run by guys with MBA's where the only real desire is to make money. So generally, only large scale, mass market crap ends up getting published...coffee table books for the masses and even then, the publishers try to get money out of the photographer to get the book printed & published. Really kinda sucks.

There are some signs that the publishers shake out may be coming to an end finally. At Photo LA   in Jan 08 I saw several smaller photo book publishers showing some simple new book styles from relatively established but younger photographers that might be taken as a glimmer of hope. Modern Books in Palo Alt was one of them (I don't have the cards of the other here with me at the moment).

But I completely agree with Michael that the current state is dismal.
Logged

John Sheehy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 838
US Bashing...
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2008, 01:51:01 pm »

Quote
Jesus tap dancing christ.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That must be tough in sandals!
Logged

John Camp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2171
US Bashing...
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2008, 01:56:27 pm »

Still, I know what Richard Grupe means. Virtually any international forum is replete with casual US bashing, usually by the ignorant. It begins to make you sensitive after a while -- perhaps over-sensitive, in this case.

Quoting Jeff Schewe:
 
"The last few years (since 2000 or so) saw many of the smaller US boutique publishers that would take a risk, fall on hard times mixed with mismanagement (and in certain cases, fraud & misappropriation of funds). So, now it's a situation where serious photo books are done by a handful of larger publishers run by guys with MBA's where the only real desire is to make money."

Guess what, pal, it's always been this way. There have always been boutique publishers, and they always fail, eventually. As soon as hard times come along, they start falling out the windows. There are two ways to publish: make a profit, or take subsidies. Making a profit is what MBAs are for. Getting subsidies is tough: why should someone subsidize a book by a photographer whose photos aren't good enough to be published and make a profit, especially in the face of so much competition for the subsidy dollar? Competition from agencies who, say, actually feed starving people...So subsidies usually come from people who have a lot of money, and usually only a small circle of those, art-enthusiasts, and when they lose interest, the company goes under.

"So generally, only large scale, mass market crap ends up getting published...coffee table books for the masses and even then, the publishers try to get money out of the photographer to get the book printed & published. Really kinda sucks."

It's called "mass market crap" because masses of people might actually be willing to buy them. It's not always crap, just mostly. The publishing company does this because it wants to survive, and the individuals who work there want to continue working there. It's not because they're philistines. As for the true photo artists -- defined here as "people whose work doesn't sell" -- well, I personally think artists should suffer for their art. Better them, than perfectly innocent outsiders. Keep in mind that 99 percent of all art photography is ill-conceived, ill-thought out, ill-executed crap, of no interest to anyone but the photographer. Failing to publish could be considered a favor to trees.

"There are some signs that the publishers shake-out may be coming to an end finally. At Photo LA in Jan 08 I saw several smaller photo book publishers showing some simple new book styles from relatively established but younger photographers that might be taken as a glimmer of hope. Modern Books in Palo Alto was one of them (I don't have the cards of the other here with me at the moment)."

And probably funded by one of two people out of their own pocket, or the pockets of wealthy people, "art patrons," who expect to lose their "investment," and staffed mostly by young people who are willing to work for virtually nothing, out of enthusiasm and idealism. They will sell a thousand or two thousand copies for almost no profit. These companies will eventually go away, and be replaced by more companies like them, and the trickle of books will continue.

"But I completely agree with Michael that the current state is dismal."

The current state is almost always dismal, if you're talking about a certain kind of sincere (non-cynical) art. See the impressionists. Or the post-impressionists. Or almost any young photographer up to the time of, perhaps, Mapplethorpe. *Successful* young artists in our society tend to show their greatest talents in public relations, not in visual expression.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180031\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]

JC
Logged

soslund

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 76
US Bashing...
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2008, 02:08:20 pm »

"Outside of perhaps Camera Arts and Aperture, what magazines blow YOUR skirts up?"

Jeff....have you seen Brooks Jenson's Lensworks?  I think this is a thoughful, well produced monthly publication that I actually keep and collect.  His podcasts are also quite well done.  His "folios" are also excellent.  


Scott
Logged

Eric Myrvaagnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22813
  • http://myrvaagnes.com
    • http://myrvaagnes.com
US Bashing...
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2008, 03:53:56 pm »

I totally agree about Lenswork. IMHO it is the best photo mag out there by far at the moment. And Aperture has been quite disappointing for quite a number of years now.
Logged
-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

ndevlin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 679
    • Follow me on Twitter
US Bashing...
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2008, 04:34:39 pm »

Quote
...I'm sick of it.

Michael observes that the Aussie photo-publishing industry is, both proportionaly and absolutely, more vibrant than that in the US.  An empirical true statement.  A factually relevant statement on a website devoted to a global photography. Relevant and singularly timely from a man who is respected by a broad following across the continents and who has just returned from a globe-trotting voyage dedicated to addressing the state of the photographic art.
 
Since true, relevant, empirical facts are now considered "bashing", let me add to the wave of anti-Americanism:  Canada is BIGGER than the U.S. Take that, Richard Grupe. You can't see me, but my tongue is out and my hands are waving, fan-spread over the tops of my ears as I mock the pitiable state of your physical geography.  

 We're not only bigger than you in physical size, but farther north. HAH!

Boy, you must be fighting mad now.  Gonna invade?

- N.
Logged
Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera        ww
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up