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Author Topic: US Bashing...  (Read 22230 times)

Rob C

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US Bashing...
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2008, 05:02:00 pm »

Magazines and books. Problem with both, you have to have people willing to read, or at least able to look. In that sense, as it relates to those two media, might I suggest that perhaps their time has passed?

I can only speak with any personal understanding for the period from the late 50s and I have to say that things have changed dramatically in the photo mag world. In those earlier times, Popular Photography magazine used to publish both Popular Photography Annual and a second one called their Color Annual. From the main magazine and also, no, particularly from the annuals, I picked up on most of what I came to see as the state-of-the-art photographic world. There, I first saw the works of Sam Haskins, of Ernst Haas, Bruce Davidson, W. Eugene Smith, Bert Stern, the list was a never-ending one of the best in creative photographic art or, perhaps, let´s call it best of commercially successful photography. Perhaps it´s all the same thing.

Some time ago I bought, purely because I was surprised to see it in a Spanish kiosk, a copy of Pop Photo. Dear me - what an emasculated version of its old self it turned out to be! I was also a habitual buyer of French Photo, big sister to the current American Photo. I bought the American one for a year or two out of a sort of misplaced loyalty to the French parent, but eventually I had to call down the curtain on it because it really bore nothing more than a vague stylistic resemblance to its French counterpart. It seemed to be nothing much more than a doormat to travel companies and the marketing of photographic trips - a whore in print, is what comes to mind, to MY mind and quite possibly ONLY to my mind, in case anyone mistakes this post as a libel.

And, worst of all, the photography left me totally unmoved. This might well be that I´m old and half-way (on a generous day) into my dotage, but it was probably the feeling that I got from the actual pictures so proudly on display. How depresing and unremarkable. As John Camp wrote, saving a tree a year makes more sense, so I stopped buying. Also, I might add, I have given up on the French version too. Not because it is not still good, but that I have to decide whether to DO photography any more or just decay into a world of reminiscence and reading/writing about it - as here, perhaps?

Books on photography, I´m assured, only sell if they are of the how-to genre. Is    this only because there is so little work out there that is really worth spending any money purchasing? Or is it because so many people put their work on the web and rather than making sales, it removes the need to buy? Interesting quandry. Or, as I indicated at the start, it might just be that peopleare too paced out to read much of anything - on a screen, or it doesn´t exist?

Oh well, does it matter?

Rob C

David Anderson

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US Bashing...
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2008, 06:20:29 pm »

I agree with Richard, America bashing (thankyou George W.) is rife in Australia !

Why just the other day I was at a party and because of my American accent I was quickly cornered by two French baby-boomer lefties and a couple of greasy old Aussie hippies determined to dig into my political values and see where I stood on Iraq.

My first though was to pretend to be Canadian, because here in Oz a Canadian is a bit like a Volvo, nobody notices or cares.
No, that would be boring.

Maybe I should play the left - one of those Americans who left in protest, sad at the state of the motherland.
Not true and very boring.

That really only left one option - play the ugly American.
Also not true, but not boring !

So digging DEEP into my central Illinois upbringing I pulled out my best Crank up the Anola Gay -god fearing - NRA card carrying - right wing redneck attitude and let them have it.
Ten minutes later, after a lot of high volume four letter words like ****, **** and cheese eating surrender monkeys they nearly ran out the door..

I would now suggest that any Americans visiting Australia pretend to be Canadians to avoid similar situations..
     
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John Camp

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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2008, 06:27:33 pm »

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I would now suggest that any Americans visiting Australia pretend to be Canadians to avoid similar situations..
    
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The trouble with that is, you'd have to say things like "sailboot" and "I'll get there aboot nine."

JC
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Satch

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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2008, 06:39:44 pm »

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I agree with Richard, America bashing (thankyou George W.) is rife in Australia !

Why just the other day I was at a party and because of my American accent I was quickly cornered by two French baby-boomer lefties and a couple of greasy old Aussie hippies determined to dig into my political values and see where I stood on Iraq.

My first though was to pretend to be Canadian, because here in Oz a Canadian is a bit like a Volvo, nobody notices or cares.
No, that would be boring.

Maybe I should play the left - one of those Americans who left in protest, sad at the state of the motherland.
Not true and very boring.

That really only left one option - play the ugly American.
Also not true, but not boring !

So digging DEEP into my central Illinois upbringing I pulled out my best Crank up the Anola Gay -god fearing - NRA card carrying - right wing redneck attitude and let them have it.
Ten minutes later, after a lot of high volume four letter words like ****, **** and cheese eating surrender monkeys they nearly ran out the door..

I would now suggest that any Americans visiting Australia pretend to be Canadians to avoid similar situations..
    
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

David, several people have given their opinions here about why the photo book publishing business is "dismal" in the U.S., but no one has spoken as to why it's so "vibrant" in Australia.  You would seem to be in a unique position to compare/contrast.  Your thoughts?
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David Anderson

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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2008, 07:26:51 pm »

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David, several people have given their opinions here about why the photo book publishing business is "dismal" in the U.S., but no one has spoken as to why it's so "vibrant" in Australia.  You would seem to be in a unique position to compare/contrast.  Your thoughts?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180096\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know the American photo market other than selling celeb stuff through agents like LGI, Corbis & Idols over the last 16 years.
Selling into Europe is much easier.

The Australian market might be 'Vibrant', but it's also small and compared to overseas sales what we get for our photos here is less, even after an agent takes a cut the money from the UK or US is much more.

I bet our day rates are lower as well.

There are a lot of small, high quality magazines here, in fly fishing for example we have 3, Flylife, Flyangler and Flyfisher (who names these things  ) all of them are printed on quality stock and have lots of photos and all of them IMHO are better than the American fly magazines.
(though I buy those as well   )

The money they pay for photos is low and all of us that supply them do it more for the love than the check.
The people who publish them also don't make a lot of money, but clearly enjoy what they do.

I bet a lot of the books are done for the love as well.
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David Hufford

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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2008, 10:35:15 pm »

A few decent photography-related publications are around in the U.S. As has been mentioned already, Lenswork. Most of the material in Japan is mainly equipment-related and tends to serve as publicity for the makers and aren't especially useful beyond that. There are fewer decent publications related to photography as an art. I don't think that I am Japan-bashing by saying so.

I don't think that a criticism of the quality of photo-related publications in the U.S is in any way "bashing." If that is bashing, you ain't heard nothing yet.  Try living overseas and having to explain recent U.S. actions. Some folks do bash just to bash, but a lot of it is valid criticism by any standard.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 10:42:41 pm by drichi »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2008, 10:37:05 pm »

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... Virtually any international forum is replete with casual US bashing, usually by the ignorant...

Ahhh... what a beautiful display of the stereotypical arrogance  

Slobodan Blagojevic

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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2008, 10:46:56 pm »

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... cheese eating surrender monkeys ...
Had the Bush family got their wealth supporting perhaps French military industry instead of the German one, those "monkeys" would not have to surrender?  

David Hufford

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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2008, 10:54:42 pm »

So digging DEEP into my central Illinois upbringing I pulled out my best Crank up the Anola Gay -god fearing - NRA card carrying - right wing redneck attitude and let them have it.
     
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]

Cool. That's the way NRA members think and talk. Darn. I never would have knowed from being one. Now thet I does, I kan fit another stereotype. Wonder whad else I is supposed to think and say? If'n you wouldda only have said you done be from West Virginy, I could've figgered that out to.

Can't we all just go back to arguing about grammar and spelling?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 10:59:10 pm by drichi »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2008, 10:58:41 pm »

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... publishers run by guys with MBA's where the only real desire is to make money...

The alternative would be to lose money, go out of business ultimately, and thus lose the ability to support the very cause you are losing money for?

DarkPenguin

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« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2008, 11:19:23 pm »

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The alternative would be to lose money, go out of business ultimately, and thus lose the ability to support the very cause you are losing money for?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180132\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Why would that be the alternative?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2008, 11:29:59 pm »

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Why would that be the alternative?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180137\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hmmm... good question. I thought that the opposite of making money is losing it... No?

DarkPenguin

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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2008, 11:32:06 pm »

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Hmmm... good question. I thought that the opposite of making money is losing it... No?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180139\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That would be the opposite, yes.

Did you decide to paint your house black or white this year?
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Richard Grupe

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« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2008, 11:43:38 pm »

I'm strong because you are puny.

How ridiculous.

At least there was some entertaining commentary to soften the insult.

And.....the normal 6th grader blather.....to be expected on any public forum, but quite curious that the level of intelligence here has such an obvious high with an exaggerated low. Perhaps supporting the strong/puny logic.
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TMcCulley

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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2008, 12:53:07 am »

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At least there was some entertaining commentary to soften the insult.

And.....the normal 6th grader blather.....to be expected on any public forum, but quite curious that the level of intelligence here has such an obvious high with an exaggerated low. Perhaps supporting the strong/puny logic.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180141\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think the insult is that you have contrived a pointless argument for your entertainment.  MR did not insult the country because he called to task a particular industry.

Tom
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2008, 12:58:20 am »

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That would be the opposite, yes.

Did you decide to paint your house black or white this year?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180140\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As a matter of fact, it is white (antique white, to be precise). But instead of me trying to figure out your black & white metaphor in the context of the publishing business discussion, why don't you tell us what the alternative to making money is in your opinion?

DarkPenguin

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« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2008, 01:15:28 am »

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As a matter of fact, it is white (antique white, to be precise). But instead of me trying to figure out your black & white metaphor in the context of the publishing business discussion, why don't you tell us what the alternative to making money is in your opinion?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180155\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's great.  I think I understand now.

I'm not interested in that discussion so I think I'll bail on this.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 01:16:50 am by DarkPenguin »
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Jeremy Roussak

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« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2008, 04:14:45 am »

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So digging DEEP into my central Illinois upbringing I pulled out my best Crank up the Anola Gay -god fearing - NRA card carrying - right wing redneck attitude and let them have it.
    
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Cool. That's the way NRA members think and talk. Darn. I never would have knowed from being one. Now thet I does, I kan fit another stereotype. Wonder whad else I is supposed to think and say? If'n you wouldda only have said you done be from West Virginy, I could've figgered that out to.

Can't we all just go back to arguing about grammar and spelling?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180131\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Couldn't agree more. The name of the relevant B29 aeroplane was "Enola Gay".

Jeremy
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Morris Taub

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« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2008, 08:17:00 am »

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...I'm sick of it.

"I'd also like to comment on my impressions of the state of photography in Australia. I had an opportunity while there to view work by several of that county's finest photographers, and found them to be most impressive. There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."

Good on the Aussies and bad on MR.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


This is one of the silliest threads i've seen here on LL and there have been quite a few silly threads...sometimes entertaining if one has nothing else to do i suppose...

C'mon Richard...there's plenty to bash the US government about since GWB was put in office so if someone needs to bash, on the appropriate forum, fine, let 'em bash...but to read MR's comments on the state/quality of available photo literature in the USA as US bashing is just, well, silly...

the other side of the coin...i think these things go through periods, low and high times and it might change down the road for american publishers...also, like Rob C wrote...things are changing...the information highway isn't limited anymore to the printed word or image...it'll take some time to see where it's all heading...

M

jani

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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2008, 09:50:46 am »

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That must be tough in sandals!
That's why it's called a miracle!
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