Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: Richard Grupe on March 07, 2008, 09:33:24 pm
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...I'm sick of it.
"I'd also like to comment on my impressions of the state of photography in Australia. I had an opportunity while there to view work by several of that county's finest photographers, and found them to be most impressive. There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."
Good on the Aussies and bad on MR.
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Get a grip on yourself. Someone's opinion (right or wrong) on your publishing industry is not US bashing. Have a nice day, David
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Someone's opinion (right or wrong) on your publishing industry is not US bashing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179937\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Right or wrong you are entitled to your opinion. It just doesn't coincide with mine.
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Jesus tap dancing christ.
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Your thread does raise the question of the standard of photographic publishing worldwide, and my impression is that is that in general, it's not very good. Apart from a few heroic efforts here and there, it doesn't seem to really be well thought out or much above the entertainment level. Two problems spring to mind immediately though. What I am looking for in a magazine for example, is not what may interest you, and the subject matter that many of us sought in mags 20 years ago for inspiration, is now freely available on the web. David
Edit: You've got me interested enough to go back to my local bookshop and have another look
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...I'm sick of it.
"I'd also like to comment on my impressions of the state of photography in Australia. I had an opportunity while there to view work by several of that county's finest photographers, and found them to be most impressive. There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."
Good on the Aussies and bad on MR.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am at a loss to find anything in Michael's statement that would be construed as "bashing".
What a warped sense of self importance. I guess the more inflated the ego, the thinner the skin. There were several brilliant photo rags, such as Picture Magazine, published here at one time or another. Guess there just wasn't enough interest in art photography to keep them afloat.
PopPhoto still around though.
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Somebody call a waaaaaambulance?
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...I'm sick of it.
"There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
And exactly what part of this honest (and accurate) assessment of the dismal state of the photo publishing industry do you disagree with? Photo book & magazine publishing sucks in the US. Want to do a fine art photo book in the US? Ya better be prepared to completely fund it and pay the publisher to produce it. Photo magazines? Outside of perhaps Camera Arts and Aperture, what magazines blow YOUR skirts up? I'm forever looking at European magazines at the book store not the US magazines because the US rags are really just vehicles not fine art photography.
The fact that YOU take offense by being told the realty of things says a lot more about your rather small & narrow world and that's from one American (to another? Don't know since you don't even mention your citizen status-which is all too typical of Americans-assuming they/we are the center of the universe).
Course, I'm writing this from London where I'm doing a spot of work and the view of America from here is not all that rosy.
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"Course, I'm writing this from London where I'm doing a spot of work and the view of America from here is not all that rosy"
While you're in UK, why not visit Yorkshire & Cumbria to see real English people?
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"Course, I'm writing this from London where I'm doing a spot of work and the view of America from here is not all that rosy"
While you're in UK, why not visit Yorkshire & Cumbria to see real English people?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179973\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Aye, we're certainly real oop north
Mike (in Yorkshire:))
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While you're in UK, why not visit Yorkshire & Cumbria to see real English people?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179973\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Written like a true chip-on-the-shoulder Northerner
Quentin (Londoner and proud of it ).
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...I'm sick of it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm sorry but can't agree with one iota of what you stated here. I read the original both before and after your comment and to my mind there is not a shread of 'bashing' here. It is/was an honest opinion of a strength in Australia - how that can be taken as a detraction/bashing of another culture escapes me. I hope you have a chance to sleep and perhaps reflect on this comment - an apology would be nice. I think it deserved.
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And exactly what part of this honest (and accurate) assessment of the dismal state of the photo publishing industry do you disagree with? Photo book & magazine publishing sucks in the US. Want to do a fine art photo book in the US? Ya better be prepared to completely fund it and pay the publisher to produce it. Photo magazines? Outside of perhaps Camera Arts and Aperture, what magazines blow YOUR skirts up? I'm forever looking at European magazines at the book store not the US magazines because the US rags are really just vehicles not fine art photography.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ok so the obvious and important question is WHY?
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Jesus tap dancing christ.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Olé
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Ok so the obvious and important question is WHY?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179997\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The last few years (since 2000 or so) saw many of the smaller US boutique publishers that would take a risk, fall on hard times mixed with mismanagement (and in certain cases, fraud & misappropriation of funds). So, now it's a situation where serious photo books are done by a handful of larger publishers run by guys with MBA's where the only real desire is to make money. So generally, only large scale, mass market crap ends up getting published...coffee table books for the masses and even then, the publishers try to get money out of the photographer to get the book printed & published. Really kinda sucks.
There are some signs that the publishers shake out may be coming to an end finally. At Photo LA in Jan 08 I saw several smaller photo book publishers showing some simple new book styles from relatively established but younger photographers that might be taken as a glimmer of hope. Modern Books in Palo Alt was one of them (I don't have the cards of the other here with me at the moment).
But I completely agree with Michael that the current state is dismal.
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Jesus tap dancing christ.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That must be tough in sandals!
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Still, I know what Richard Grupe means. Virtually any international forum is replete with casual US bashing, usually by the ignorant. It begins to make you sensitive after a while -- perhaps over-sensitive, in this case.
Quoting Jeff Schewe:
"The last few years (since 2000 or so) saw many of the smaller US boutique publishers that would take a risk, fall on hard times mixed with mismanagement (and in certain cases, fraud & misappropriation of funds). So, now it's a situation where serious photo books are done by a handful of larger publishers run by guys with MBA's where the only real desire is to make money."
Guess what, pal, it's always been this way. There have always been boutique publishers, and they always fail, eventually. As soon as hard times come along, they start falling out the windows. There are two ways to publish: make a profit, or take subsidies. Making a profit is what MBAs are for. Getting subsidies is tough: why should someone subsidize a book by a photographer whose photos aren't good enough to be published and make a profit, especially in the face of so much competition for the subsidy dollar? Competition from agencies who, say, actually feed starving people...So subsidies usually come from people who have a lot of money, and usually only a small circle of those, art-enthusiasts, and when they lose interest, the company goes under.
"So generally, only large scale, mass market crap ends up getting published...coffee table books for the masses and even then, the publishers try to get money out of the photographer to get the book printed & published. Really kinda sucks."
It's called "mass market crap" because masses of people might actually be willing to buy them. It's not always crap, just mostly. The publishing company does this because it wants to survive, and the individuals who work there want to continue working there. It's not because they're philistines. As for the true photo artists -- defined here as "people whose work doesn't sell" -- well, I personally think artists should suffer for their art. Better them, than perfectly innocent outsiders. Keep in mind that 99 percent of all art photography is ill-conceived, ill-thought out, ill-executed crap, of no interest to anyone but the photographer. Failing to publish could be considered a favor to trees.
"There are some signs that the publishers shake-out may be coming to an end finally. At Photo LA in Jan 08 I saw several smaller photo book publishers showing some simple new book styles from relatively established but younger photographers that might be taken as a glimmer of hope. Modern Books in Palo Alto was one of them (I don't have the cards of the other here with me at the moment)."
And probably funded by one of two people out of their own pocket, or the pockets of wealthy people, "art patrons," who expect to lose their "investment," and staffed mostly by young people who are willing to work for virtually nothing, out of enthusiasm and idealism. They will sell a thousand or two thousand copies for almost no profit. These companies will eventually go away, and be replaced by more companies like them, and the trickle of books will continue.
"But I completely agree with Michael that the current state is dismal."
The current state is almost always dismal, if you're talking about a certain kind of sincere (non-cynical) art. See the impressionists. Or the post-impressionists. Or almost any young photographer up to the time of, perhaps, Mapplethorpe. *Successful* young artists in our society tend to show their greatest talents in public relations, not in visual expression.
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JC
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"Outside of perhaps Camera Arts and Aperture, what magazines blow YOUR skirts up?"
Jeff....have you seen Brooks Jenson's Lensworks? I think this is a thoughful, well produced monthly publication that I actually keep and collect. His podcasts are also quite well done. His "folios" are also excellent.
Scott
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I totally agree about Lenswork. IMHO it is the best photo mag out there by far at the moment. And Aperture has been quite disappointing for quite a number of years now.
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...I'm sick of it.
Michael observes that the Aussie photo-publishing industry is, both proportionaly and absolutely, more vibrant than that in the US. An empirical true statement. A factually relevant statement on a website devoted to a global photography. Relevant and singularly timely from a man who is respected by a broad following across the continents and who has just returned from a globe-trotting voyage dedicated to addressing the state of the photographic art.
Since true, relevant, empirical facts are now considered "bashing", let me add to the wave of anti-Americanism: Canada is BIGGER than the U.S. Take that, Richard Grupe. You can't see me, but my tongue is out and my hands are waving, fan-spread over the tops of my ears as I mock the pitiable state of your physical geography.
We're not only bigger than you in physical size, but farther north. HAH!
Boy, you must be fighting mad now. Gonna invade?
- N.
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Magazines and books. Problem with both, you have to have people willing to read, or at least able to look. In that sense, as it relates to those two media, might I suggest that perhaps their time has passed?
I can only speak with any personal understanding for the period from the late 50s and I have to say that things have changed dramatically in the photo mag world. In those earlier times, Popular Photography magazine used to publish both Popular Photography Annual and a second one called their Color Annual. From the main magazine and also, no, particularly from the annuals, I picked up on most of what I came to see as the state-of-the-art photographic world. There, I first saw the works of Sam Haskins, of Ernst Haas, Bruce Davidson, W. Eugene Smith, Bert Stern, the list was a never-ending one of the best in creative photographic art or, perhaps, let´s call it best of commercially successful photography. Perhaps it´s all the same thing.
Some time ago I bought, purely because I was surprised to see it in a Spanish kiosk, a copy of Pop Photo. Dear me - what an emasculated version of its old self it turned out to be! I was also a habitual buyer of French Photo, big sister to the current American Photo. I bought the American one for a year or two out of a sort of misplaced loyalty to the French parent, but eventually I had to call down the curtain on it because it really bore nothing more than a vague stylistic resemblance to its French counterpart. It seemed to be nothing much more than a doormat to travel companies and the marketing of photographic trips - a whore in print, is what comes to mind, to MY mind and quite possibly ONLY to my mind, in case anyone mistakes this post as a libel.
And, worst of all, the photography left me totally unmoved. This might well be that I´m old and half-way (on a generous day) into my dotage, but it was probably the feeling that I got from the actual pictures so proudly on display. How depresing and unremarkable. As John Camp wrote, saving a tree a year makes more sense, so I stopped buying. Also, I might add, I have given up on the French version too. Not because it is not still good, but that I have to decide whether to DO photography any more or just decay into a world of reminiscence and reading/writing about it - as here, perhaps?
Books on photography, I´m assured, only sell if they are of the how-to genre. Is this only because there is so little work out there that is really worth spending any money purchasing? Or is it because so many people put their work on the web and rather than making sales, it removes the need to buy? Interesting quandry. Or, as I indicated at the start, it might just be that peopleare too paced out to read much of anything - on a screen, or it doesn´t exist?
Oh well, does it matter?
Rob C
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I agree with Richard, America bashing (thankyou George W.) is rife in Australia !
Why just the other day I was at a party and because of my American accent I was quickly cornered by two French baby-boomer lefties and a couple of greasy old Aussie hippies determined to dig into my political values and see where I stood on Iraq.
My first though was to pretend to be Canadian, because here in Oz a Canadian is a bit like a Volvo, nobody notices or cares.
No, that would be boring.
Maybe I should play the left - one of those Americans who left in protest, sad at the state of the motherland.
Not true and very boring.
That really only left one option - play the ugly American.
Also not true, but not boring !
So digging DEEP into my central Illinois upbringing I pulled out my best Crank up the Anola Gay -god fearing - NRA card carrying - right wing redneck attitude and let them have it.
Ten minutes later, after a lot of high volume four letter words like ****, **** and cheese eating surrender monkeys they nearly ran out the door..
I would now suggest that any Americans visiting Australia pretend to be Canadians to avoid similar situations..
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I would now suggest that any Americans visiting Australia pretend to be Canadians to avoid similar situations..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The trouble with that is, you'd have to say things like "sailboot" and "I'll get there aboot nine."
JC
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I agree with Richard, America bashing (thankyou George W.) is rife in Australia !
Why just the other day I was at a party and because of my American accent I was quickly cornered by two French baby-boomer lefties and a couple of greasy old Aussie hippies determined to dig into my political values and see where I stood on Iraq.
My first though was to pretend to be Canadian, because here in Oz a Canadian is a bit like a Volvo, nobody notices or cares.
No, that would be boring.
Maybe I should play the left - one of those Americans who left in protest, sad at the state of the motherland.
Not true and very boring.
That really only left one option - play the ugly American.
Also not true, but not boring !
So digging DEEP into my central Illinois upbringing I pulled out my best Crank up the Anola Gay -god fearing - NRA card carrying - right wing redneck attitude and let them have it.
Ten minutes later, after a lot of high volume four letter words like ****, **** and cheese eating surrender monkeys they nearly ran out the door..
I would now suggest that any Americans visiting Australia pretend to be Canadians to avoid similar situations..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
David, several people have given their opinions here about why the photo book publishing business is "dismal" in the U.S., but no one has spoken as to why it's so "vibrant" in Australia. You would seem to be in a unique position to compare/contrast. Your thoughts?
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David, several people have given their opinions here about why the photo book publishing business is "dismal" in the U.S., but no one has spoken as to why it's so "vibrant" in Australia. You would seem to be in a unique position to compare/contrast. Your thoughts?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180096\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't know the American photo market other than selling celeb stuff through agents like LGI, Corbis & Idols over the last 16 years.
Selling into Europe is much easier.
The Australian market might be 'Vibrant', but it's also small and compared to overseas sales what we get for our photos here is less, even after an agent takes a cut the money from the UK or US is much more.
I bet our day rates are lower as well.
There are a lot of small, high quality magazines here, in fly fishing for example we have 3, Flylife, Flyangler and Flyfisher (who names these things ) all of them are printed on quality stock and have lots of photos and all of them IMHO are better than the American fly magazines.
(though I buy those as well )
The money they pay for photos is low and all of us that supply them do it more for the love than the check.
The people who publish them also don't make a lot of money, but clearly enjoy what they do.
I bet a lot of the books are done for the love as well.
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A few decent photography-related publications are around in the U.S. As has been mentioned already, Lenswork. Most of the material in Japan is mainly equipment-related and tends to serve as publicity for the makers and aren't especially useful beyond that. There are fewer decent publications related to photography as an art. I don't think that I am Japan-bashing by saying so.
I don't think that a criticism of the quality of photo-related publications in the U.S is in any way "bashing." If that is bashing, you ain't heard nothing yet. Try living overseas and having to explain recent U.S. actions. Some folks do bash just to bash, but a lot of it is valid criticism by any standard.
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... Virtually any international forum is replete with casual US bashing, usually by the ignorant...
Ahhh... what a beautiful display of the stereotypical arrogance
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... cheese eating surrender monkeys ...
Had the Bush family got their wealth supporting perhaps French military industry instead of the German one, those "monkeys" would not have to surrender?
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So digging DEEP into my central Illinois upbringing I pulled out my best Crank up the Anola Gay -god fearing - NRA card carrying - right wing redneck attitude and let them have it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Cool. That's the way NRA members think and talk. Darn. I never would have knowed from being one. Now thet I does, I kan fit another stereotype. Wonder whad else I is supposed to think and say? If'n you wouldda only have said you done be from West Virginy, I could've figgered that out to.
Can't we all just go back to arguing about grammar and spelling?
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... publishers run by guys with MBA's where the only real desire is to make money...
The alternative would be to lose money, go out of business ultimately, and thus lose the ability to support the very cause you are losing money for?
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The alternative would be to lose money, go out of business ultimately, and thus lose the ability to support the very cause you are losing money for?
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Why would that be the alternative?
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Why would that be the alternative?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180137\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmmm... good question. I thought that the opposite of making money is losing it... No?
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Hmmm... good question. I thought that the opposite of making money is losing it... No?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180139\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That would be the opposite, yes.
Did you decide to paint your house black or white this year?
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I'm strong because you are puny.
How ridiculous.
At least there was some entertaining commentary to soften the insult.
And.....the normal 6th grader blather.....to be expected on any public forum, but quite curious that the level of intelligence here has such an obvious high with an exaggerated low. Perhaps supporting the strong/puny logic.
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At least there was some entertaining commentary to soften the insult.
And.....the normal 6th grader blather.....to be expected on any public forum, but quite curious that the level of intelligence here has such an obvious high with an exaggerated low. Perhaps supporting the strong/puny logic.
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I think the insult is that you have contrived a pointless argument for your entertainment. MR did not insult the country because he called to task a particular industry.
Tom
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That would be the opposite, yes.
Did you decide to paint your house black or white this year?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180140\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As a matter of fact, it is white (antique white, to be precise). But instead of me trying to figure out your black & white metaphor in the context of the publishing business discussion, why don't you tell us what the alternative to making money is in your opinion?
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As a matter of fact, it is white (antique white, to be precise). But instead of me trying to figure out your black & white metaphor in the context of the publishing business discussion, why don't you tell us what the alternative to making money is in your opinion?
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That's great. I think I understand now.
I'm not interested in that discussion so I think I'll bail on this.
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So digging DEEP into my central Illinois upbringing I pulled out my best Crank up the Anola Gay -god fearing - NRA card carrying - right wing redneck attitude and let them have it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Cool. That's the way NRA members think and talk. Darn. I never would have knowed from being one. Now thet I does, I kan fit another stereotype. Wonder whad else I is supposed to think and say? If'n you wouldda only have said you done be from West Virginy, I could've figgered that out to.
Can't we all just go back to arguing about grammar and spelling?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180131\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Couldn't agree more. The name of the relevant B29 aeroplane was "Enola Gay".
Jeremy
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...I'm sick of it.
"I'd also like to comment on my impressions of the state of photography in Australia. I had an opportunity while there to view work by several of that county's finest photographers, and found them to be most impressive. There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."
Good on the Aussies and bad on MR.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is one of the silliest threads i've seen here on LL and there have been quite a few silly threads...sometimes entertaining if one has nothing else to do i suppose...
C'mon Richard...there's plenty to bash the US government about since GWB was put in office so if someone needs to bash, on the appropriate forum, fine, let 'em bash...but to read MR's comments on the state/quality of available photo literature in the USA as US bashing is just, well, silly...
the other side of the coin...i think these things go through periods, low and high times and it might change down the road for american publishers...also, like Rob C wrote...things are changing...the information highway isn't limited anymore to the printed word or image...it'll take some time to see where it's all heading...
M
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That must be tough in sandals!
That's why it's called a miracle!
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The trouble with that is, you'd have to say things like "sailboot" and "I'll get there aboot nine."
JC
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This something I have always wondered a-bout and it appears this thread is just the crazy free-for-all to bring it up. I have been a Canadian all my life now and in 60 years the only time I have ever heard the word pronounced "aboot" is from an American attempting humour. Has any body else in the world ever heard a Canadian say "aboot"? I live in western Canada so maybe it is an Eastern thing but sounds more like a Scottish thing to me ( not that there is anything wrong with that) ... but please enlighten me, eh.
Ian
edit for spelling
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Well, far be it from me to pass up an excuse for Yanqui bashing , but I just picked up quite a nice photo magazine called "Focus", in a bookstore in Akureyri, Iceland. As far as I can tell it is a USA publication.... It has an iceberg on the front, too. And no pixel peeping whatsoever.
www.focusmag.info appears to be where it lives.
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It's my impression, but I can't guarantee that this is correct, is that there's a lobe of "aboot" speakers that covers Western Ontario and (we don't talk about this part) northern Minnesota and Wisconsin. There's also the possibility that it's a Scandinavian inflection, since so much of that area, on both sides of the border, is settled by Scandinavians. But it definitely exists -- my sister, who lives in northern Wisconsin, now says it, but can't hear it in herself. I once spent several weeks in Toronto, and didn't hear it that I can remember; and a couple of years ago, I traveled up to Prudhoe Bay from Minnesota, by car, and didn't hear it then, either, in Alberta, BC and the Yukon. Maybe it overlaps with Canadians who say, "Eh," as in the Great White North.
It doesn't sound like a soft "ooo" but a cross between "about" and "aboot," a sorrt of hollow "oh" sound. Peter Jennings used to say it occasionally.
The topic interests me, and if others have a different impression of its geographic range, I'd be interested to hear about it.
JC
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This something I have always wondered a-bout and it appears this thread is just the crazy free-for-all to bring it up. I have been a Canadian all my life now and in 60 years the only time I have ever heard the word pronounced "aboot" is from an American attempting humour. Has any body else in the world ever heard a Canadian say "aboot"? I live in western Canada so maybe it is an Eastern thing but sounds more like a Scottish thing to me ( not that there is anything wrong with that) ... but please enlighten me, eh.
Ian
edit for spelling
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As a western Canadian living in California for the last 20 some years, the word "about" is always the give away. As soon as I say it, people will say, OH, you're from Canada.
So yes, there is a subtle way we say it that the American ear can pick up. And I don't say aboot.
Michael
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This something I have always wondered a-bout and it appears this thread is just the crazy free-for-all to bring it up. I have been a Canadian all my life now and in 60 years the only time I have ever heard the word pronounced "aboot" is from an American attempting humour. Has any body else in the world ever heard a Canadian say "aboot"? I live in western Canada so maybe it is an Eastern thing but sounds more like a Scottish thing to me ( not that there is anything wrong with that) ... but please enlighten me, eh.
Ian
edit for spelling
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=180230\")
aboot is used extensively in Scotland and especially in Orkney.
a common phrase is 'oot n aboot'
It might have been brought to Canada by the Hudson Bay Company which employed a lot of Orcadians/Scots.
[a href=\"http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/OKI/canada.html]http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/OKI/canada.html[/url]
do a google search for 'oot n aboot'
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I guess this needs to be said...
The REAl problem with pretending to be a Canadian is having to be nice to everyone - even though what they really need is to be told in no uncertin terms to **** off.
Of course that's still easier than pretending to be from UnZud - now thet's a tough ick-sunt !
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...I'm sick of it.
"I'd also like to comment on my impressions of the state of photography in Australia. I had an opportunity while there to view work by several of that county's finest photographers, and found them to be most impressive. There is also a vibrant photographic magazine and book publishing industry that puts to shame that in the US, especially considering that Oz has a population significantly less than 1/10th that of America. Good on-ya."
Good on the Aussies and bad on MR.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What a puzzling comment.
I don't have at all the feeling that Luminous Landscape forum or articles are involved in US bashing.
There are things to improve in every country, and calling "bashing" an attempt to point out some widely acknowledged issue is off the mark.
I fear that what you are sick about is not bashing (unfair criticism) but the freedom of expression it takes to talk about things the way they are. If I am correct, you might want to consider emigrating to North Korea, there is less public criticism of the state of affairs overthere.
Or is it that criticism is OK if it comes from fellow Americans, but KO if a foreigners dares to comment? But then, is it still "bashing" if they are right? Shouldn't you be happy that some people take time to provide you with objective feedback?
Either way, waking up from a nice dream in a cold room is always tough but getting up and preparing breakfast is how adults deal with such a situation. Children stay in bed and hide under their blanket.
Cheers,
Bernard
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As a western Canadian living in California for the last 20 some years, the word "about" is always the give away. As soon as I say it, people will say, OH, you're from Canada.
So yes, there is a subtle way we say it that the American ear can pick up. And I don't say aboot.
Michael
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Well, thank you all that commented and educated me about this and I'm going to listen more carefully. And now, apparently John Camp's "attempt" at humour was actually pretty funny after all and I AM laughing.
More uniquely CDN than I thought.
Ian
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And I'd like to add, on America bashing, that probably nobody bashes America as much as Americans do. What's annoying is the really stupid stuff from people who must not ever have visited -- Americans are fascists, or racists, or whatever. You want to say, what, all 300 million of us? But most of the time, it's not even worth arguing the point. It does become tiring, though, especially when you're trying to read about photography.
On the other hand, I don't mind elegant American bashing.
Porfirio Diaz once lamented, "Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to the United States."
That's gotta make you laugh.
Charles Dickens also did some excellent America bashing, especially of Cairo, Illinois, an early real-estate scheme in which he lost a lot of money, just like the British banks that bought all those sub-primes. 8-)
JC
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Good grief! WTF? And other comments.
This thread (or at least the initial post) is one of the more egregious examples of retarded hypersensitive political correctness I've seen in quite a while. Merely making the observation that Australia publishes a greater number of high-quality photo publications than another nation does NOT constitute bashing. Making the statement that Japanese companies produce far greater numbers of DSLRs than US companies is not "bashing", it's a simple statement of fact. So is noting that the US generally does more poorly in the World Cup than many smaller nations. If you have an problem with the situation, start your own American photo publication. Or at least provide a list of American publications that you believe refutes the statement you take issue with. Whining about it and accusing the individual making the statement of "bashing" just makes you look overly sensitive and immature and invites "bashing" with a justifiable basis.
No nation is the best at everything.
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Good grief! WTF? And other comments.
This thread (or at least the initial post) is one of the more egregious examples of retarded hypersensitive political correctness I've seen in quite a while. Merely making the observation that Australia publishes a greater number of high-quality photo publications than another nation does NOT constitute bashing. Making the statement that Japanese companies produce far greater numbers of DSLRs than US companies is not "bashing", it's a simple statement of fact. So is noting that the US generally does more poorly in the World Cup than many smaller nations. If you have an problem with the situation, start your own American photo publication. Or at least provide a list of American publications that you believe refutes the statement you take issue with. Whining about it and accusing the individual making the statement of "bashing" just makes you look overly sensitive and immature and invites "bashing" with a justifiable basis.
No nation is the best at everything.
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"Retarded". Couldn't have said it better myself.
And add +1 for Lens Work. I sometimes enjoy B+W, but it's a bit too elitist for my taste most of the time.
Cheers,
-Andrew
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Of course that's still easier than pretending to be from UnZud - now thet's a tough ick-sunt !
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Strewth blue! Not as bad as calling fish and chips "feesh and cheeps".
Everyone has a go at another country sometime. If you pay any attention to it you will certainly have a miserable life. David
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Strewth blue! Not as bad as calling fish and chips "feesh and cheeps".
Everyone has a go at another country sometime. If you pay any attention to it you will certainly have a miserable life. David
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The best kiwi accent I ever heard was actually in Australia. I stopped at a servo (gas station for you yanks) and filled up with fuel, and when I went to pay was confronted with "Gudday. Thet wull be fufty sivin dollars fufty, thenks" !
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Good grief! ....
No nation is the best at everything.
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I completely agree with Jonathan and (FWIW) with Bernard too and I would like to add:
No man is the best at everything
(and... I think we all can agree on this)
No camera is the best at everything
Ciao
Franco
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Ok folks – it started off silly, and has gotten sillier.
Let's just let it die.
Michael
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Ok folks – it started off silly, and has gotten sillier.
Let's just let it die.
Michael
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Too bad no one seemed to really want to discuss what accounts for the difference--that would have been very interesting (and non-silly).
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Hmmmmmmm.
I guess now would not be the right time to mention that I am from southern Africa and am continually mistaken here in Blighty for being A) Australian, Kiwi, C) Sarth Efrikan and never correctly, D) ZIMBABWEAN
And we have a worse president than the Americans. Just.
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I'll start by saying I'm another midwesterner from the USA. I live in Wisconsin. I won't go into my political view as it really isn't peritnent.
Anyway, what I would like to know is if there is a web site for any Austrailian Photo Mags that I could look at?
I am not too fond of most of the US mags. I love Lenswork, Shutterbug is Ok as is Outdoor Photography and Popular Photography. I really do not like Aperture at all, I guess because they seem a little too full of themselves. I can do without the rest of the publications.
I subscribe to Practical Phototgaphy, Photography Monthly and Outdoor Photography from the UK and enjoy them a lot.
I've never seen or heard of one from Austrailia or New Zealand. BTW, I really enjoyed both countries and have been there twice. Would love to go again if the opportunity presents itself.
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Come come, lets put a lid on this one.