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Author Topic: mamiya and phase  (Read 66019 times)

pss

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mamiya and phase
« Reply #120 on: November 15, 2007, 02:52:50 am »

i really wonder why the idea of the "integrated system" is supposed to be the future? canon and nikon are integrated systems and so is the H3D but i personally never liked the 35m/SLR shooting "style" so why does everybody seem to think that this is where everything will go? if it does, canon or nikon will mop the floor with hasselblad!

this is not about open or closed (i agree with steve, there is no such thing anyway, well at least there is no really open, but there is an attempt at really closed) ...this is about having options...

i really don't see myself spending the rest of my shooting days looking into a DSLR finder....i actually prefer rangefinders to SLR finders....i want the option to use a SLR,  WLF and a "large format,T/S camera...and preferably all with one back which i will probably upgrade every couple of years....i don't want to have a different digital workflow for every different shoot....having one back guarantees that....

nobody will ever make the one body that does it all...because if it is the size of a leica it will be too small for some things and if it is the size of a RZ it will be too heavy to carry around!...just like you won't go pick up your lumber in a ferrari...
so i don't see why it has to be ONE package....

also: i love apple...i think they just do amazing things....love their hardware, love their software....that does not mean that aperture is the best solution.....i really don't see how it will ever be possible for one company to have the best bodies, lenses, backs and software...sorry, don't believe that will ever happen....i love my phase back, but C1 is on its way out and i don't ever see it coming back, compared to LR....that's the way it goes.....will this new phase camera be the best camera ever? seriously doubt it, but if it gives me a 3rd, more contemporary option to the 645 and the RZ, i will definitely get one....

also: the 3 year 24hr thing (like sinar with the Hy6) really sounds great....

anyway i am hoping it will be a mini RZ, which i am pretty sure it won't be....oh well...
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Dustbak

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« Reply #121 on: November 15, 2007, 02:54:37 am »

Before Thierry chimes in  I thought it was 5 year garantuee.
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BernardLanguillier

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mamiya and phase
« Reply #122 on: November 15, 2007, 03:50:00 am »

Quote
i really wonder why the idea of the "integrated system" is supposed to be the future? canon and nikon are integrated systems and so is the H3D but i personally never liked the 35m/SLR shooting "style" so why does everybody seem to think that this is where everything will go? if it does, canon or nikon will mop the floor with hasselblad!

this is not about open or closed (i agree with steve, there is no such thing anyway, well at least there is no really open, but there is an attempt at really closed) ...this is about having options...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152986\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, there are real advantages to an integrated solution.

- Having a single vendor to deal with in case of problem is a huge plus,
- It is much easier to optimize the image path accross lenses, sensors and software designed by a single company,
- You can discount some elements knowing that money will come from another source
- ...

Why did I buy a high end Denon DVD player together with my Denon AV amp? Because that DVD player was a good performer, but also because I knew I could connect them with a single network cable in pure direct digital mode. There might have been a slighly better DVD player from another brand, but I selected mine because of the benefits of an integrated system.

The same goes with cameras.

Cheers,
Bernard

Quentin

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« Reply #123 on: November 15, 2007, 04:11:58 am »

So much negativity.  A new system, with old Mamiya lenses capable of being used, free upgrade to recent Phase purchasers, open system.  If it was any more compatable, it would not be new.  Short of coming to your apartment and serenading you, I don't honestly see how much more a new camera system could offer current users looking for a viable upgrade path  Of course the full product details are not yet available, but I doubt Phase and Mamiya, with their combined and complimentary experience, would design a dog.  It souds like it nshould be a winner.  

Price remains an issue.  Phase One are not exactly cheap, and Mamiya have always offered good value kit.  How will that circle be squared?

Quentin
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 04:13:26 am by Quentin »
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, Arbitrato

Dustbak

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« Reply #124 on: November 15, 2007, 04:23:15 am »

Quote
Well, there are real advantages to an integrated solution.

- Having a single vendor to deal with in case of problem is a huge plus,
- It is much easier to optimize the image path accross lenses, sensors and software designed by a single company,
- You can discount some elements knowing that money will come from another source
- ...

Why did I buy a high end Denon DVD player together with my Denon AV amp? Because that DVD player was a good performer, but also because I knew I could connect them with a single network cable in pure direct digital mode. There might have been a slighly better DVD player from another brand, but I selected mine because of the benefits of an integrated system.

The same goes with cameras.

Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152993\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Why would dealing with one single vendor be a plus? If I don't like the vendor I have no alternatives!

There is no reason why optimisation would be easier. The same spec's that are floating internally can be supllied to 3rd parties for development. In my experience companies that tend to do everything by themselves get sloppy with documentation which doesn't help the process. There is also a lesser incentive to perform. You cut-off all other forms of development that might be done by other parties.

Do you really believe you will get a discount, when you can only buy from one party?

Not sure why you come up with audio. Maybe you should have a look at Windows. Do you want all your software being made by MS only? Count to think of it MS has a very large 3rd party developer programme with MSDN. They supply you with all sorts of stuff & every form of help you might be asking for, naturally at a a price.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 04:26:21 am by Dustbak »
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amsp

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« Reply #125 on: November 15, 2007, 06:03:21 am »

I think there is way too much negative speculation and reading into the choice of words in Michael's interview. Remember these are not straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. I think both Mamiya and P1 know that their strength in competing with the other companies would be compatibility, not remaking hasselblad's mistake of closing out their entire current customer base. I think the new camera will use the current AFD lens mount, period, and maybe even the change of back interface was a misunderstanding. Whichever it is, I prefer not panicking just yet.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 06:04:40 am by amsp »
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #126 on: November 15, 2007, 06:55:42 am »

Quote
i want the option to use a SLR,  WLF and a "large format,T/S camera...and preferably all with one back

+1

And this makes sensor cleaning much easier too.

And I don't want to throw away a camera body every time I upgrade a sensor.
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #127 on: November 15, 2007, 06:58:44 am »

Quote
Why did I buy a high end Denon DVD player together with my Denon AV amp?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152993\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, high-end audio is an excellent example of using components from different specialist companies together to build the best system. I don't think I've ever seen a true high end system all made by the one manufacturer.
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godtfred

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« Reply #128 on: November 15, 2007, 07:03:14 am »

Quote
Actually, high-end audio is an excellent example of using components from different specialist companies together to build the best system. I don't think I've ever seen a true high end system all made by the one manufacturer.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Exellent example.
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Axel Bauer
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ynp

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« Reply #129 on: November 15, 2007, 08:27:47 am »

Very interesting announcement and I like the part about the openness of the system.

Somebody on the P1 User Forum claimed that :>>both the lens mount and the DB mount will remain unchanged from the AFD II, so your investment is secure. The new Phase One camera will be an open system>> http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?t=4435.
I am not sure how reliable is the poster on the P1 forum.

I have no investment in Mamiya, but a pro who I share my studio with is upgrading her Mamiya version of the P20 and she is supposed to get her 30+ in December through a "grey import channel" to save some money on import duties. Shall I advice her to cancel her order and go through an official dealers to get an access to new deals ( like a free camera etc.)?

BTW. There is a funny rumour here in Russia that Leica will be building a new generation of R  AF lenses for " bigger that 24 x 36 sensor". Maybe Leica is the mysterious European lens manufacturer mentioned in the thread? Or they meant the Zeiss V series lenses?

Yevgeny
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amsp

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« Reply #130 on: November 15, 2007, 12:04:09 pm »

It has now been confirmed people, nothing changes, not the back mount and not the lens mount. Full compatibility! Oh yes
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espressogeek

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« Reply #131 on: November 15, 2007, 01:10:26 pm »

So does anything think that phase will add  zd support to C1?
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jing q

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« Reply #132 on: November 15, 2007, 01:38:33 pm »

Quote
It has now been confirmed people, nothing changes, not the back mount and not the lens mount. Full compatibility! Oh yes
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153093\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

that means I can use my leaf with it!woohooo
all that's needed is just leaf shutter lenses...*can't wait!*
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Leonardo Barreto

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« Reply #133 on: November 15, 2007, 10:02:31 pm »

This was posted at the PhaseOne owners forum by a Phase One Staff called Eric... and confirmed by Ulf Liljegren, also from PhaseOne.

"I am happy to confirm that both the lens mount and the DB mount will remain unchanged from the AFD II, so your investment is secure. The new Phase One camera will be an open system.
Regards,
Eric"

I asked Ulf


--ME:Interesting that you say "The new Phase One camera"

The camera is not Mamiya but Phase One with Mamiya mount?

Of course this is a rhetorical question... unless you want to elaborate...

--ULF: The camera is a collaboration between Phase One and Mamiya.
_________________
Kind Regards
Ulf Liljegren
Phase One

So the camera may or may not be a Phase One or Mamiya but a "colaboration".

If it is built like my P 25 it will be all metal, as minimalistic as Mamiya, robust and energy efficient.

It is interesting to see all the players in terms of what they sell.

Hasselblad --- Name and marketing / some design / digital back /
Fujifilm -- some design of camera / camera and lens manufacturing / no back
Rollei -- some design of camera / no back
Sinar -- some design of camera / digital backs for at least 2 systems
Leaf --  some design of camera / digital backs for at least 2 systems ?
Phase-- some design of camera / digital backs
Mamiya -- one camera system design and manufacture / some design of new system with Phase /manufacture of Phase camera / design and manufacture of optics for the 2 systems / digital back
Kodak and Delsa -- sensor manufacturing


Who do you think has more business in MF ?
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #134 on: November 15, 2007, 11:13:58 pm »

Quote
It is interesting to see all the players in terms of what they sell....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153226\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But this 'table' is not correct, and is meaningless.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 11:14:20 pm by foto-z »
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mcfoto

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« Reply #135 on: November 15, 2007, 11:33:42 pm »

Hi
I just read the Phase One form & 2 Phase staff confirmed that the DB mount will be the same. So it is a new body that will accept leaf shutter lenses or will the leaf shutter lenses work on the AFDII?  Sounds good to me & I am very happy with the AFDII body. If it is a body for the new leaf shutter lenses plus the others, then I will upgrade my AFD body. This is a true win win situation.
Thanks Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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John_Black

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« Reply #136 on: November 15, 2007, 11:37:28 pm »

With a 1/125 sync on the AFD II, how would you reap the benefits of a leaf shutter?  I'm guessing the AFD shutter would still be opening by the time the leaf shutter had gone through its complete cycle.
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #137 on: November 15, 2007, 11:39:45 pm »

Quote
With a 1/125 sync on the AFD II, how would you reap the benefits of a leaf shutter?  I'm guessing the AFD shutter would still be opening by the time the leaf shutter had gone through its complete cycle.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153241\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I assume the focal plane shutter would stay open for as long as a leaf shutter lens is attached, effectively eliminating it from the camera.

People are dreaming if they think the existing bodies will handle new leaf shutter lenses.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 11:40:10 pm by foto-z »
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mcfoto

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« Reply #138 on: November 16, 2007, 01:33:20 am »

Hi
Here is a press release from Mamiya USA.

http://www.mamiya.com/news-events-press-releases.html
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Denis Montalbetti
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david o

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« Reply #139 on: November 16, 2007, 01:36:43 am »

Quote
Hi
Here is a press release from Mamiya USA.

http://www.mamiya.com/news-events-press-releases.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153251\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

"develop unique digital camera solutions in the coming years, including new feature combinations not in the market today"

I would love to read your imagination on that...
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