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Author Topic: New HP APS thread  (Read 20509 times)

Charles Gast

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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2007, 08:43:44 am »

The APS is $900.  Imageprint will be $1500 when it releases.  IP will have more accurately generated profiles tuned for different illumination sources in addition to all the other workflow functions.  IP will also include  improved ink recipes. The spectro in the z3100 will still be needed to linearize the printer/ paper combinations. Once the cost gets up to the 900 dollar range the added advantages IP will provide make it much more sensible.  For now, as I had hoped the z3100 is creating great prints for me without the extras.  If I at a future date feel the need to drop about another grand or so on this printer my choice of paths is a no brainer. Wouldn't it be interesting if the z3100 IP and the APS with A3 target compatibility come to market in the same week?

I need to reiterate my dissatisfaction with HP on the whole APS issue.  For them to market this wonderful printer with built in spectro and then say "and if you really really want the spectro to perform at its best you buy our APS for $900" is bull.
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Pigmenta

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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2007, 10:48:46 am »

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Tom, does the spectro in the HP work with your Gretag software?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113870\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually I could try it with ProfileMaker / Measure Tool 5.0.2 which is not the latest release of Gretag's software. It isn't on the list of colorimeters, and won't be seen as a standard Eye-One device, of course.
I can use it off-line to create icc profiles for different printers, with APS only. I discussed with a developer from EFI today, how to use the built in spectro from color-management softwares. The problem is the structure of the target, the shape of the patches. The Z3100 built in spectro will not read any other target, but the one created for it, and included with APS (Real targets I mean, like TC9.18, not the basic calibration target included in HP Color Center).
Tom
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MSalivar

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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2007, 11:32:44 am »

So does Imageprint provide a profiler that can take advantage of the onboard spectro, or are you speaking of IP provided profiles?

By the way, isn't IP another grand for those with the 44" model?  That changes things a bit.

Quote
The APS is $900.  Imageprint will be $1500 when it releases.  IP will have more accurately generated profiles tuned for different illumination sources in addition to all the other workflow functions.  IP will also include  improved ink recipes. The spectro in the z3100 will still be needed to linearize the printer/ paper combinations. Once the cost gets up to the 900 dollar range the added advantages IP will provide make it much more sensible.  For now, as I had hoped the z3100 is creating great prints for me without the extras.  If I at a future date feel the need to drop about another grand or so on this printer my choice of paths is a no brainer. Wouldn't it be interesting if the z3100 IP and the APS with A3 target compatibility come to market in the same week?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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MSalivar

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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2007, 11:40:25 am »

Thanks Tom, I'd appreciate the attempt.  Right now a salesman is trying to sell us ColorProof XF for $6500 (I have to figure out if we can cut out a module or not) because I expressed an interest in the RIP being able to profile with the built in spectro.  Obviously Wasatch and APS would be a much cheaper option, if I can't do what I want with Wasatch alone.  Unfortunately the Wasatch rep I met a week ago at ISA is out of town.

Does anyone know of any other RIPs which will be able to do APS's job for it?  Maybe Onyx will...

Actually, I think I need to find a new salesman.  This guy is trying to sell me ProfileMaker after telling me he thought Eye One Photo was overkill for us
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Jim Cole

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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2007, 11:47:40 am »

My understanding is that Onxy GammaPrint Pro will utilize the onboard spectro and provide true CMYKRGB profiles. Onyx has the info up on their website, but no prices or availability yet. None of their dealers has the product listed yet.

Jim


Quote from: MSalivar,Apr 24 2007, 08:40 AM

Does anyone know of any other RIPs which will be able to do APS's job for it?  Maybe Onyx will...
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Jim Cole
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Panascape

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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2007, 02:45:10 pm »

Just to confirm to all that contrary to the info Marty was given, there will indeed be a new version of APS releasing soon and that is all I can say for now.
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marty m

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« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2007, 07:23:29 am »

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Just to confirm to all that contrary to the info Marty was given, there will indeed be a new version of APS releasing soon and that is all I can say for now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114046\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Robert (Panascape) is quoting from my older postings.  I reported that HP tech support told me that there are no plans to revise the APS to fix these problems.  Robert subsequently reported, and insisted, that I had received an inaccurate report and a revision to the software is indeed planned.

In response to that, I acknowledged Robert's report and assume that he is receiving more accurate information than what I was told by US HP tech support.

It should be noted that HP needs to revise all of its software and firmware across the board.  

* APS -- desperately in need of revision as noted in this and other threads

* firmware -- doesn't work with APS and Pro Satin.  Other issues have not yet been addressed as reported in other threads.  The last revision was only aimed at a select and limited group of papers -- as also noted in other threads

* Easy software -- some users have reported serious problems and complete failures with the install.  HP tech support in the US is incredibly arrogrant, rude and non-responsive on these issues -- as has also been reported by more than one individual in in other threads.

The Z3100 is still a work in progress.  Only a fool would buy the APS until these issues are resolved.  The same might apply to the printer itself, depending on your patience and willingness to deal with incomplete firmware and software.
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Christopher

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« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2007, 07:56:02 am »

Quote
Robert (Panascape) is quoting from my older postings.  I reported that HP tech support told me that there are no plans to revise the APS to fix these problems.  Robert subsequently reported, and insisted, that I had received an inaccurate report and a revision to the software is indeed planned.

In response to that, I acknowledged Robert's report and assume that he is receiving more accurate information than what I was told by US HP tech support.

It should be noted that HP needs to revise all of its software and firmware across the board. 

* APS -- desperately in need of revision as noted in this and other threads

* firmware -- doesn't work with APS and Pro Satin.  Other issues have not yet been addressed as reported in other threads.  The last revision was only aimed at a select and limited group of papers -- as also noted in other threads

* Easy software -- some users have reported serious problems and complete failures with the install.  HP tech support in the US is incredibly arrogrant, rude and non-responsive on these issues -- as has also been reported by more than one individual in in other threads.

The Z3100 is still a work in progress.  Only a fool would buy the APS until these issues are resolved.  The same might apply to the printer itself, depending on your patience and willingness to deal with incomplete firmware and software.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114158\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would never buy APS until they give me custom targets with custom numbers of patches.
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Christopher Hauser
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dct123

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« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2007, 10:48:43 am »

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I would never buy APS until they give me custom targets with custom numbers of patches.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114164\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

FWIW...I've ordered a 24" Postscript version of the Z3100 for $139.00 more than the basic Z, and it includes the latest version of APS.
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rdonson

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« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2007, 02:55:41 pm »

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FWIW...I've ordered a 24" Postscript version of the Z3100 for $139.00 more than the basic Z, and it includes the latest version of APS.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114183\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So how much did the Postscript add to the cost of the printer?
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Regards,
Ron

dct123

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« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2007, 04:02:39 pm »

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So how much did the Postscript add to the cost of the printer?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114223\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

$139...Total cost of the Z3100ps w/APS was $3986.00...as opposed to $3847 for the basic Z3100.
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Jim_H_WY

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« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2007, 04:24:44 pm »

May I ask where you got it for that price?  Thanks

Jim H.
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BlasR

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« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2007, 04:38:08 pm »

Ya, I like to know too if all is possible.

Thank You

BlasR
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dct123

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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2007, 05:08:41 pm »

Quote
May I ask where you got it for that price?  Thanks

Jim H.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've bought everything from printers to monitors from this company...good service and prices:

[a href=\"http://www.provantage.com/hewlett-packard-hp-q5670a-bcc~7HEWD0LU.htm]http://www.provantage.com/hewlett-packard-...cc~7HEWD0LU.htm[/url]

Also best prices on paper and ink...I work with Marie at Xt. 120.
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Jim_H_WY

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« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2007, 05:52:11 pm »

Thanks for that information.

I checked with them and it does show on the website as the HPZ3100ps for $3986.12.  If that also qualifies for the rebates for folks with existing 17" or better printers, then it's almost too good to be true.

Thanks again.

Jim H.
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Pigmenta

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« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2007, 12:16:47 pm »

Quote
Thanks Tom, I'd appreciate the attempt.  Right now a salesman is trying to sell us ColorProof XF for $6500 (I have to figure out if we can cut out a module or not) because I expressed an interest in the RIP being able to profile with the built in spectro.  Obviously Wasatch and APS would be a much cheaper option, if I can't do what I want with Wasatch alone.  Unfortunately the Wasatch rep I met a week ago at ISA is out of town.

Does anyone know of any other RIPs which will be able to do APS's job for it?  Maybe Onyx will...

Actually, I think I need to find a new salesman.  This guy is trying to sell me ProfileMaker after telling me he thought Eye One Photo was overkill for us
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114009\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I use EFI ColorProof XF 3.0 (3.1 is out). You can create profiles for the Z3100 with the on-board spectro. There is no solution by EFI to use the Z3100's spectro to generate profiles for other printers, unless you have another spectro. Tested Wasatch (6.0), I'll not use it for professional jobs (hard ink-limiting, color management is not exact).
I've found the best color management in Colorproof XF, with optimizing option. It is fully standardized with ISO and other proofing standards. Ink limiting and other media-sets are cannot be transfered to other rips, but icc profiles (for use with same printer settings).
Build up your XF configuration, use only parts and options you really need. Be careful using it for more than 1-2 printers and production! Forget APS and Wasatch together.
APS is only for stand-alone printers, if no other rip is available.
Onyx.. hm, I'll test it soon. They promise most.

Tom
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Charles Gast

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« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2007, 02:03:34 pm »

If the rebate applies to the printer with the postscript+APS then everyone who has been buying these printers and thinking about getting the APS at some future date has been hosed out of about $700!
Another reason to lose interest in it

Imageprint or Onyx for me. Likely they will have better ink recipes for saturated colors too.
I won't shoot  myself in the foot twice. I'm limping a little as it is
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dct123

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« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2007, 06:41:35 pm »

Quote
If the rebate applies to the printer with the postscript+APS then everyone who has been buying these printers and thinking about getting the APS at some future date has been hosed out of about $700!
Another reason to lose interest in it

Imageprint or Onyx for me. Likely they will have better ink recipes for saturated colors too.
I won't shoot  myself in the foot twice. I'm limping a little as it is
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114389\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

According to a rep at HP Business Customer Service, the rebate applies to all "Z Series printers"...additionally, I was assured that the Z3100ps came with an "onboard (hardware?) Postscript rip and the latest version of APS."

My supplier also assured me that my order for the ps version of the Z3100 will ship before the May 31 rebate deadline.
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MSalivar

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« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2007, 08:37:35 pm »

Quote
According to a rep at HP Business Customer Service, the rebate applies to all "Z Series printers"...additionally, I was assured that the Z3100ps came with an "onboard (hardware?) Postscript rip and the latest version of APS."

My supplier also assured me that my order for the ps version of the Z3100 will ship before the May 31 rebate deadline.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114432\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can tell you the Z6100 will have an option for a hardware RIP (as do the light solvents), I'm really not sure about the Z3100.  I can tell you this, though, hardware RIPs are typically VERY slow.  Of course, my experience is coming from EFI Fiery's on Xerox DocuColors and Canon ImageRunners (lasers), but you're typically getting slow processors with small memory.

I can't wait to see your report on Onyx, Tom.  I'll take your word on Wasatch, even though I truely wanted to make that work.  We're looking to integrate our sign business with fine art and photography under the same RIP (we need things like contour cutting), so I think ImagePrint is out.  Another one that catches my interest is PhotoPrint Server-Pro from Scanvec.  I imagine that would get along pretty well with FlexiDesign over on the sign side, without having to get a full Flexi RIP.
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Charles Gast

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« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2007, 10:40:58 pm »

[
My supplier also assured me that my order for the ps version of the Z3100 will ship before the May 31 rebate deadline.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]

If you go the HP webpage
[a href=\"http://h41186.www4.hp.com/country/us/en/pdp/designjet/Z3100-summary.html]http://h41186.www4.hp.com/country/us/en/pd...00-summary.html

you can see the "GP" version which comes with the APS package and rip is another $1000.00.  Provantage is offering this GP printer for less than HP sells the z3100 for *without* the rip and APS?
I noticed they are on backorder too. I think your dealer made a mistake.  They will lose money on the sale! Good for you and too bad for them
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