Backs for architecture/commercial photography

[thsinar]

Danijela,

you don't have to worry about this issue with a Sinarback: we have an adapter plate system allowing you to use the back on any common MF camera body (Hassel V, H, Mamiya, Contax , Rollei, Sinar m, etc ..) and on a LF camera just by changing the adapter plate. It is a fast and easy operation.

So definitively no need to change the back with Sinar!

Wireless data transfer: wait and see. It is one thing to announce it and another to have it, IMO.

Best regards,
Thierry

I completely forgot to ask about the mount. Because buying a digital back is
bad enough, now it gets worse, which one should I choose? Some say if you buy H mount be careful you can't
use it on V mount , Rollei and visa verse but if you buy V mount
you can use it on RZ, Contax, etc.

I don't understand nothing, because nothing they say make sense.

Any advice appreciated
Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101426\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Caracalla]

I think it’s so easier for Fashion photographers, just point and shoot, they can’t possibly be technically more demanding when choosing accessories.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101442\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

100% right  

On the account of LF lenses you cannot make mistake with
either the Rodenstock or Schneider they are the best that
you can get, period. Architecture is really demanding i know
but if you enjoy it, it is worth the money.

ciao

[Danijela D. Karic]

you were asking for 35+60hr images.
http://www.tangential.de/tests/
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, thank you very much.

you were asking for 35+60hr images.
i dont know about the new phase 45 and 30 chips. but the older p25 and all before would have had serious problems with purple fringing with morifs as the posted ones, and i dont think that this improved much, but here should speak owners of p45 better.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101443\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There has to be at least few experienced P45 owners using on this forum LF digital Lenses and you are so right, I agree it's only natural that P45 owners should respond!

I now Leaf guys are loyal to Schneider lenses but never heard a word from P45 users
on any LF digital lenses apart from one respectful owner who I believe would like to remain anonymous and therefore I can't ask him to respond as I respect his decision.

in any case  this scenes would have been a challenge for softwares which cut highlights as soon one channel exceeds "255" or which show fringing in backlight situations. i woud like too see how they would resolve a scene like the showed one.
download the files here ( full resolution / jpeg compression10 ):

[a href=\"http://www.tangential.de/tests/]http://www.tangential.de/tests/[/url]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101443\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

CaptureShop or Brumbear Tools,

Do they improve the file by default as soon as you upload the image, like:
sharpening, recovering highlights, etc. Because I know that CapturOne does
improve the files especially with regards to sharpness. I must admit when I saw the P45 files in CaptureOne I was impressed by the look, but realized and confirmed later that sharpening was applied by a default. Phase confirmed that you can turn the sharpening off, so that it doesn't work as a default any longer if you don't like it.

One question: are the files that you posted  improved in highlights/sharpness/etc. by a default using CaptureShop or Brumbear Tools.

ALPA guys, they want to assure me that if I get ALPA 12SWA I should
go with Leaf Aptus75 and Schneider Lenses. Did you try by any chance HR lenses
with Leaf Aptus75?

Would you ever consider having both 24XL and 28HR?

Because I am leaning towards 28HR but for Morocco type of shooting I feel
24XL is more discreet and I might end up having two.

Thanks again for the response with 35HR & 60HR, hopefully others will post some images taken with  Schneider 35XL, 47XL decentered, perhaps even with 58XL from PixJohn even though he was not impressed when used with Digital Back.

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

Hi Daniela,

I have the 47xl decentered and am very happy with it. It works well in that I try to avoid extreme wides if I can help it, although often in interior work you can't. It has plenty of movement and is well suited to my style of shooting. Lens cast can be an issue and I almost always make a calibration to go with the final shot, even if no cast is apparent.

Best,

Eric
[attachment=1864:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101445\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you for posting the image.

Are you happy with the resolving power of 47XL decentered, did you find the resolution adequate?

What is the closest focusing range?

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

100% right  

On the account of LF lenses you cannot make mistake with
either the Rodenstock or Schneider they are the best that
you can get, period. Architecture is really demanding i know
but if you enjoy it, it is worth the money.

ciao
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101458\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I guess you are right, they are like Rolls Roys and Bentley. However
I would like to find out which one is Bentley?

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Thierry[/span]

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Yaya[/span]


How much are the DB adapters?
 
If you could put together the list of available/compatible adapters
and the estimated price per camera adapter, Thank You.

One more question:

If the price of the adapters are lower/Higher and I happen to buy the Digital
Back, is the price going to increase for the amount of the difference among the
adapters or is the price of the Digital Back going to remain the same
regardless of the adapters price difference?

Regards
Danijela

[rainer_v]

CaptureShop or Brumbear Tools,

Do they improve the file by default as soon as you upload the image, like:
sharpening, recovering highlights, etc. Because I know that CapturOne does
improve the files especially with regards to sharpness. I must admit when I saw the P45 files in CaptureOne I was impressed by the look, but realized and confirmed later that sharpening was applied by a default. Phase confirmed that you can turn the sharpening off, so that it doesn't work as a default any longer if you don't like it.

One question: are the files that you posted  improved in highlights/sharpness/etc. by a default using CaptureShop or Brumbear Tools.

brumbaer does not sharpen, it goes to dng which still counts as a "raw" format.

i sharpened after opening in ps slightly (200/0,3/0). no other treatment was applied to the images. they have been converted in ps cs3.

ALPA guys, they want to assure me that if I get ALPA 12SWA I should
go with Leaf Aptus75 and Schneider Lenses. Did you try by any chance HR lenses
with Leaf Aptus75?

the boss of alpa didnt had a good opinion of rodenstock lenses, but he changed it after trying the HR series. i spoke with him  about that with telephone. long time he recommended schneider, this should be different now, but probably it will take its time till this arrives to his dists.
there should not be any difference with the a75 and the HR lenses or schneier lenses except the known ones.

Would you ever consider having both 24XL and 28HR?

why not?

Thanks again for the response with 35HR & 60HR, hopefully others will post some images taken with  Schneider 35XL, 47XL decentered, perhaps even with 58XL from PixJohn even though he was not impressed when used with Digital Back.

you could also consider the 45 digital lense from rodenstock, as i see the lenses are not all on the same level. we have the same level if we compare the rodenstock digital lenses with the schneider digital lenses. the 35+45 digigtal behaves very similar than the 35+47xl from schneider. yu have to stop down the lenses 2 or three stops and in case of the 35mm you can shift a lot, but the image becomes unsharper to the edges, and more than 10-12mm shift is not longer that good for unsharp edges. the 45 digital and 47xl are better in this respect but want to be stopped down as all lf-kind lenses till f8 or f11.

i have a 45 digital to have something in the middle of 35+60mm, also i have a 90+135mm digital lense. here i would have done better ordering a 100HR, but when i bought the lenses i already was not so clear about the HR advantages. as longer i use them as more i think thats the best way to go with shift cameras.
the HR lenses behave completely different than this "old-style" designs. they are tack sharp at open focus and they improve their sharpness only a tack if stopped down.
they are another class.....



Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]

[thsinar]

Dear Danijela,

I put you the current list of available eMotion 75 (and eMotion 22) adapters. To this list there will obviously be one more adapter available for the new Sinar Hy6. Please understand that I cannot put here any reliable prices as they might vary from one country to another.

List of available eMotion Adapter Kits, with their code Nr.

SB eMotion/Hasselblad V Adapter Kit (552.36.070)
SB eMotion/Mamiya RZ 67 Adapter Kit (552.36.071)
SB eMotion/Rollei 6008 AF Adapter Kit (552.36.073)
SB eMotion/Rollei 6008 Adapter Kit (552.36.073)
SB eMotion/Mamiya 645 AFD Adapter Kit (552.36.075)
SB eMotion/Mamiya 645 Pro Adapter Kit (552.36.076)
SB eMotion/Contax 645 Adapter Kit (552.36.077)
SB eMotion/Hasselblad H Adapter Kit (552.36.079)
SB eMotion/Sinar m Adapter Kit (552.36.082)
SB eMotion/Sinar Hy6 Adapter Kit (in production)

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Thierry[/span]

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Yaya[/span]
How much are the DB adapters?
 
If you could put together the list of available/compatible adapters
and the estimated price per camera adapter, Thank You.

One more question:

If the price of the adapters are lower/Higher and I happen to buy the Digital
Back, is the price going to increase for the amount of the difference among the
adapters or is the price of the Digital Back going to remain the same
regardless of the adapters price difference?

Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101491\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Danijela,

the adapter kit prices are all the same, except the one for the Rollei 6008 which is a bit more expensive. So unless you choose the Rollei 6008 adapterkit, the price of the back with its corresponding adapter kit  will not change.

Thierry

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Thierry[/span]

One more question:

If the price of the adapters are lower/Higher and I happen to buy the Digital
Back, is the price going to increase for the amount of the difference among the
adapters or is the price of the Digital Back going to remain the same
regardless of the adapters price difference?

Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101491\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[thsinar]

Danijela,

No, Captureshop does NOT and never apply any unsharp masking to the files, unlike others. We do strongly believe that any sharpening should be done ONLY if knowing the final output size (the amount of sharpening strongly depends on the print/output size, among other parameters/factors), and not being applied to the raws as a general/default sharpening to make the files look better: it is a different approach.

However, one has the possiblity in Captureshop to check and control sharpening as well, at 100% as it should be (same USM than in Photoshop), but never by default and without being aware of it. Too dangerous, IMO.

Best regards,
Thierry

CaptureShop or Brumbear Tools,

Do they improve the file by default as soon as you upload the image, like:
sharpening, recovering highlights, etc. Because I know that CapturOne does
improve the files especially with regards to sharpness.

Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Morgan_Moore]

List of available eMotion Adapter Kits, with their code Nr.

SB eMotion/Hasselblad V Adapter Kit (552.36.070)
SB eMotion/Mamiya RZ 67 Adapter Kit (552.36.071)

etc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101493\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It should be understood that having different adapters for a sinar back may not be super handy

The adapters are not easy to change and it is not practical to do it in the field

Say you had an HY6 with lenses down to 50mm and a hassy V mount alpa with super wides you coudnt not swap from one to the other in the middle of a shoot

I dont think any wide cameras (alpa, horseman cambo) are yet available in a rolei hy6 mount whereas they are available in a H mount

The adapter is useful as you dont get locked into a system

In my own case I can move from my H1 mount to an Hy6 mount should I find this system more appropriate to my needs

(which I wont until they offer at least a 35mm lens)

SMM

[thsinar]

Dear Sam,

It is well understood that any adapter change has to be done carefully, by taking care of the CCD's Infrared filter, also on location.
As for being handy, I think it is not really a big deal to unscrew 3 screws, take the adapter away and replace it by the new one: it is done in 2 minutes time at the maximum.

The question should rather be: is it better to have this possibility of inter-changeability or not?

Being locked in one system or not is the eventual issue of it.

You are right: neither Alpa nor Cambo or Horseman do accept the Hy6 mount at this stage, all with V mount.

Best regards,
Thierry

It should be understood that having different adapters for a sinar back may not be super handy

The adapters are not easy to change and it is not practical to do it in the field

Say you had an HY6 with lenses down to 50mm and a hassy V mount alpa with super wides you coudnt not swap from one to the other in the middle of a shoot

I dont think any wide cameras (alpa, horseman cambo) are yet available in a rolei hy6 mount whereas they are available in a H mount

The adapter is useful as you dont get locked into a system

In my own case I can move from my H1 mount to an Hy6 mount should I find this system more appropriate to my needs

(which I wont until they offer at least a 35mm lens)

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101498\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Morgan_Moore]

Dear Sam,

As for being handy, I think it is not really a big deal to unscrew 3 screws, take the adapter away and replace it by the new one: it is done in 2 minutes time at the maximum.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101500\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would dispute that taking 2 minutes to change lenses is part of a practical way of operating

I have certainly ruled it out in terms of switching to a V plate and a horseman digiflex and nikkor 14 to give me ultra wide (lower res) capture - but then I am clumsy and in a hurry

This is of of course different to each photogrphers mode of operation if they are expected to produce 6 or 60 images per day

And they are tiny screws very near the sensor - an accident waiting to happen - and easy to burr up with constant use

Not to mention dust ingress risks

Is there not a further issue with the 'foil stack' which is best adjusted to each particular body and may not focus correctly on different bodies - not that focus is too accurate for all the guess systems like alpa anyway

Looking forward to the iso extension


SMM

[thsinar]

Dear Sam.

I respect your opinion: any photographer is different in "handling" things.

Foil stack: we do not deliver foil stacks any longer, since a few months now. Instead, one specific plate for each camera body (brand).

I wish I could show you one day how easy and fast it is,  

All the best,
Thierry

I would dispute that taking 2 minutes to change lenses is part of a practical way of operating

I have certainly ruled it out in terms of switching to a V plate and a horseman digiflex and nikkor 14 to give me ultra wide (lower res) capture - but then I am clumsy and in a hurry

This is of of course different to each photogrphers mode of operation if they are expected to produce 6 or 60 images per day

And they are tiny screws very near the sensor - an accident waiting to happen - and easy to burr up with constant use

Not to mention dust ingress risks

Is there not a further issue with the 'foil stack' which is best adjusted to each particular body and may not focus correctly on different bodies - not that focus is too accurate for all the guess systems like alpa anyway

Looking forward to the iso extension
SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101506\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Danijela D. Karic]

brumbaer does not sharpen, it goes to dng which still counts as a "raw" format.
i sharpened after opening in ps slightly (200/0,3/0). no other treatment was applied to the images. they have been converted in ps cs3.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The files to me looked just a bit improved and this is why I had to ask if it was improved by a default or not. I am happy to hear that nothing of the kind was applied apart from slight sharpening in cs3.

the boss of alpa didnt had a good opinion of rodenstock lenses, but he changed it after trying the HR series. i spoke with him  about that with telephone. long time he recommended schneider, this should be different now, but probably it will take its time till this arrives to his dists.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's good enough for me that they have them on the list. The more we talk about them with the reference to show what we consciously believe, better for all of us. Otherwise we will enter the 16th century zone and manufacturers will let us believe that [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']The Earth is square[/span]. It is happening right now already! Manufacturers just need a number of more believers I guess to turn it in to Official statement.

Did they pull out of the market 38mm Zeiss completely, you know the one Hasselblad uses on SWC Cameras & if you had any chance using it with digital back?

Is it still available for other cameras?

With regards to 38mm Zeiss by ALPA, I know for sure it’s discontinued.

why not?
you could also consider the 45 digital lense from rodenstock, as i see the lenses are not all on the same level. we have the same level if we compare the rodenstock digital lenses with the schneider digital lenses. the 35+45 digigtal behaves very similar than the 35+47xl from schneider. yu have to stop down the lenses 2 or three stops and in case of the 35mm you can shift a lot, but the image becomes unsharper to the edges, and more than 10-12mm shift is not longer that good for unsharp edges. the 45 digital and 47xl are better in this respect but want to be stopped down as all lf-kind lenses till f8 or f11.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If I go for 28HR and 24XL I will definitely skip 35 and go straight to 47XL decentered.

Is the difference in weight between 45HR & 47XL decentered substantial like
with 28HR & 24XL? and perhaps if you have few images to share.

i have a 45 digital to have something in the middle of 35+60mm, also i have a 90+135mm digital lense. here i would have done better ordering a 100HR, but when i bought the lenses i already was not so clear about the HR advantages. as longer i use them as more i think thats the best way to go with shift cameras.
the HR lenses behave completely different than this "old-style" designs. they are tack sharp at open focus and they improve their sharpness only a tack if stopped down.
they are another class.....
Regards
Danijela
 [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am in the same position now, only thanks to you guys I am happy to make a short cut and I hope a clever one.

However,
the truth remains, it is a [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Tough Call![/span]

Regards
Danijela

[Danijela D. Karic]

Dear Danijela,

I put you the current list of available eMotion 75 (and eMotion 22) adapters. To this list there will obviously be one more adapter available for the new Sinar Hy6. Please understand that I cannot put here any reliable prices as they might vary from one country to another.

List of available eMotion Adapter Kits, with their code Nr.

SB eMotion/Hasselblad V Adapter Kit (552.36.070)
SB eMotion/Mamiya RZ 67 Adapter Kit (552.36.071)
SB eMotion/Rollei 6008 AF Adapter Kit (552.36.073)
SB eMotion/Rollei 6008 Adapter Kit (552.36.073)
SB eMotion/Mamiya 645 AFD Adapter Kit (552.36.075)
SB eMotion/Mamiya 645 Pro Adapter Kit (552.36.076)
SB eMotion/Contax 645 Adapter Kit (552.36.077)
SB eMotion/Hasselblad H Adapter Kit (552.36.079)
SB eMotion/Sinar m Adapter Kit (552.36.082)
SB eMotion/Sinar Hy6 Adapter Kit (in production)

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101493\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Thierry,

I know you cannot put here any reliable prices as they might vary from one country to another.

Anybody [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']best qualified[/span]/[span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']respectable [/span]to demonstrate SINAR e75 in London UK, Paris FRANCE, New York, LA, USA? Names and contact numbers please.

I have to decide soon, so the time is of the essence.

Regards
Danijela

[rainer_v]

i was asked many times for my gottschalt camera,  so i post now some pics.. esp. cause this fits good in the adapter discussion.
1. i agree with thierry that its not a big deal to change the back adapters, but already better would be if they would change automtically.... cant you invent something like that thierry/sinar ?
to be serious,- it does not give me pleasure to unmount the backs on location often and usually i have on one camera the e22 and on the other the e75.
but its not a big deal... more important for me is to have a camera where i have not to unmount the back for previewing the image or to rotate the back. this was ONLY possible with an adapter which came as closed to the back element of the lense as possible, gottschalt has made his own adapter for the emotion. only with this its possible to make a rotatable back where also a slider is integrated, to protect the sensor if i change lenses. i insisted in this detail and i like it very much now. the whole sliding back is thinner than any other in the market, so together with the emotion backs it allows things which cant do any other camera/sensor combination at the moment.

the adapter for the emotion  rotates for 90 degrees, same does the lense for 360 degrees. the rear can be moved 30mm to left or right, the front lense can be moved 30mm.

2. if i travel with little equipement i can fit in a standard case in aircraft-handluggage size the gottschalt with 4 lenses and my contax with one emotion mounted and 3 lenses plus accessories as waist level finder, diffusion plate and so on. second handbag is than my G4 and two or three tiny 100gb hd drives.

( just to add: with the contax the emotions work cable free,- they have lenses from 35 to 350mm and are affortable systems. great mf plattform ..... )

if i want to change  the back between the cameras than its fast done also .... in this way i have a very luggage friendly hi quality system.
[attachment=1870:attachment][attachment=1871:attachment][attachment=1872:attachm
ent]
[attachment=1873:attachment][attachment=1874:attachment][attachment=1875:attachm
ent]
[attachment=1876:attachment]

[rainer_v]

Is the difference in weight between 45HR & 47XL decentered substantial like
with 28HR & 24XL? and perhaps if you have few images to share.
I am in the same position now, only thanks to you guys I am happy to make a short cut and I hope a clever one.

the 45 is a sinar digital lense. they are not HR lenses and equal i.m.o. the schneider pendants in terms of sharpness, image circle and general behavor ( weight, they want to be stopped down ).
its not very important which you take here , although i prefer to have the lenses from the same company for more similar color rendition.

[Dustbak]

To be able to change adapter plates with a back is a big selling argument for me. Even when it does take 2 minutes to do so.

Normally I know what I will be doing on location so I will already have selected the camera that I want to use. In most cases I would have the back with the right adapter installed before going on location.

Besides that, I like the idea of being able to. It means the manufacturer has left you the option to do so.

That is pretty cool the rotating plate in that sliding back! Do I see a dark slide on one of those images? What are you doing with that? (with the MFDB's)

[Danijela D. Karic]

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Steve Hendrix - PPR DIGITAL [/span]


I would appreciate if you could post a few images with the new HC 28mm with and without correction applied. Don’t forget to forward your contact number because I tried a google search PPR DIGITAL and it shows only a renting department. So I am not sure if that is your company, anyhow it would be practical to have your contact on the LL Signature, underlined.

Regards
Danijela