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Author Topic: Backs for architecture/commercial photography  (Read 131072 times)

Danijela D. Karic

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Backs for architecture/commercial photography
« Reply #200 on: February 19, 2007, 04:21:02 pm »

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I agree it is a good idea - more than that - it put me firmly in the sinar camp

Having been locked into mamiya on my pro back and personlly not getting on with mamiya

I felt robbed that my back was stuck on that system and sold it all at a big loss

I persnally wouldnt buy a back that didnt have the plate system

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am not sure why Phase doesn’t make a step in that direction, since they don’t have the platform they are working on, and that may very well be their only ticket in staying at the Top.

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I dont think changing plates on set is part of anything but the most controlled and considered workflow

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Like it or hate it, it’s there, so you can act upon your will.

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I would therefore not go HY6 until there is a seamless integration with a wide system

I would get a sinar back on a H1 or Vmount and think about moving Hy6 in a couple of years when the system is smooth

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sure, you are not alone on this one.

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I love Rheiners contraption - but counldt use (or afford) something like that to provide me with wider than 40 mm

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Who doesn’t? His system is TOP!!! and custom, very custom made. I literally never heard anybody talking about Gottschalt DS 30 until here on Luminous Landscape.

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For me view camera have thier place but that is pretty strictly for static objects - 50% of my work is street and even at 35 hass give a pretty good wide lense (the idiots locked me out of thier 28

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My main reason for going with ALPA 12SWA is LF Digital Lenses and how light and small the system it self is. Other reasons include : precisely the fact that you don’t have to be static or shoot static objects , basically Leica with LF Digital Lenses, etc., etc. I know you are mad at Hasselblad and you have a great reason for it, but I must admit I like their H3D 39 and their lenses. Regardless of the back I buy, I will most probably go for H2 or I will figure something else, but for now it’s H Series when it comes to camera & lenses.

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I wont be buying a new back for years even though my is only a rubbishy antiquated 22mp - still better than 99.99% of digital cameras on the planet and plenty good for most reproduction purposes

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
TRUE.

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THey shoot themselves in the foot in not listing the Xact on thier site as is is thier in house wide platform that will work with a rollei adapter I would imagine
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You are so right, because when I confirmed with ALPA that you can actually use Rollei lenses on all ALPA cameras, of course I went to their web and read about it.

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I think sinar need to get thier act together fast in offering integration to a wide system

SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101615\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
100% Right, if they don’t move in to the right direction this year 2007, who ever is at the
top deciding will turn [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']SINAR[/span] in to [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']DINAR[/span], worthless coin these days.


Regards
Danijela
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 04:35:28 pm by Danijela D. Karic »
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #201 on: February 19, 2007, 06:43:18 pm »

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Thierry,

While a quick-release mechanism would add cost, it would also add real value.
 [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I hope they realize, we are not asking SINAR for free gifts. they should just do it, but [span style=\'font-size:10pt;line-height:100%\']pricing it right[/span] is the key.

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Sinar's adaptors are an interesting feature now. Taking them to the next level, where changing an adaptor becomes as smooth and (generally) worry-free a routine as changing a back itself, would be revolutionary.
 [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I believe we had that much intelligence during the 20th Century, What happened?

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A quick-release adaptor would surely cost a good bit less than the wage premium of that special kind of assistant whom you could trust to put a screwdriver to an e75.
-H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree, very good point!

Regards
Danijela
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 06:45:26 pm by Danijela D. Karic »
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #202 on: February 19, 2007, 06:49:17 pm »

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Harris,
well said!
Those adapters at $2000 AUD are already pricey.
A few hundred dollars isn't going to break the bank!
Cheers,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101635\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi William,

Thank you for posting the list price of Sinar Adapter. Was the one with the price
tag of AUD $2000 for Rollei or not?


Regards
Danijela
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 06:49:30 pm by Danijela D. Karic »
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Shara Haddad

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« Reply #203 on: February 19, 2007, 07:39:04 pm »

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Hi William,

Thank you for posting the list price of Sinar Adapter. Was the one with the price
tag of AUD $2000 for Rollei or not?
Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Danijela, my name is Shara Haddad, I am new to this forum but I have been a photographer for about 3 years since studying at Rhode Island a few years ago, I currently reside in Yemen. I have been a bit hesitent to post here, as a woman I find these forums pretty much frequented by men.

Anyway, this discussion has been great. My father is financing my new system. I have been hired by the ministry of travel to help create a new ad campaign. The AD has required the photographer to shoot a digital back so I was thinging about the Sinar or Leaf along with my exiting 503CW.

Have you made a decision yet. I really need some help as this is one of the toughest decision I have made in my life. I feel more comfortable with taking to another woman. (Sorry men, this is a woman thing) No, I am not serious....just joking.

Anyway, Danijela please let me know what you think.

Shara
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #204 on: February 19, 2007, 10:49:32 pm »

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Hi Danijela, my name is Shara Haddad, I am new to this forum but I have been a photographer for about 3 years since studying at Rhode Island a few years ago, I currently reside in Yemen. I have been a bit hesitent to post here, as a woman I find these forums pretty much frequented by men.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, I know what you mean. However, I find this forum very civil and help worthy. Photographers here are top professionals with top equipment. You may find the distributors/dealers sometimes being overprotective and perhaps even few photographers, but nothing to worry about, it’s simply their job or basically they own the equipment.

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Anyway, this discussion has been great. My father is financing my new system. I have been hired by the ministry of travel to help create a new ad campaign. The AD has required the photographer to shoot a digital back so I was thinging about the Sinar or Leaf along with my exiting 503CW.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sinar or Leaf? That is tough! You should at least if nothing consider Phase.

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Have you made a decision yet.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
YES with regards to Camera & Lenses, but NO with regards to Digital Back.

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I really need some help as this is one of the toughest decision I have made in my life. I feel more comfortable with taking to another woman. (Sorry men, this is a woman thing) No, I am not serious....just joking.

Anyway, Danijela please let me know what you think.

Shara
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101782\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My decision is not as tough as yours. However, if my father was financing my gear, I would definitely go with Phase or Hasselblad and considering we need more beauty sleep then Men do, AF system for sure.

Regards
Danijela
« Last Edit: February 19, 2007, 10:51:11 pm by Danijela D. Karic »
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rethmeier

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« Reply #205 on: February 19, 2007, 11:02:33 pm »

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Hi William,

Thank you for posting the list price of Sinar Adapter. Was the one with the price
tag of AUD $2000 for Rollei or not?
Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The eMotion adapters are mostly the same price.
However the ones for the Rollei 6008 are more expensive.
There is no price for the eMotion-Hy6 adapter,however I hope that would be included,
when I get my Hy6,as I already use the eMotion-75.

Btw: You should get a medal for the most post ever!

Regards,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #206 on: February 19, 2007, 11:19:39 pm »

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The eMotion adapters are mostly the same price.
However the ones for the Rollei 6008 are more expensive.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101812\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Any idea how much more?

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Btw: You should get a medal for the most post ever!

Regards,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101812\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I guess that's flattering for a woman. However, no medals required but wait until I get the system up and running!

Regards
Danijela
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rethmeier

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« Reply #207 on: February 19, 2007, 11:25:05 pm »

Danijela,
I suggest you contact your local Sinar dealer,regarding those adapter plates.
However,their pricing is similar worldwide.
Regards,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #208 on: February 20, 2007, 12:55:00 am »

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Danijela,
I suggest you contact your local Sinar dealer,regarding those adapter plates.
However,their pricing is similar worldwide.
Regards,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101819\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi William,

I tried to get Thierry to put me in touch with the SINAR representatives, unfortunately it's not that easy as I thought. However, I received one contact today and when I phoned there was a voice mail so I left a Message. We'll see what happens from here.

Regards
Danijela
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 12:55:13 am by Danijela D. Karic »
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thsinar

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« Reply #209 on: February 20, 2007, 02:08:06 am »

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Hi William,

I tried to get Thierry to put me in touch with the SINAR representatives, unfortunately it's not that easy as I thought. However, I received one contact today and when I phoned there was a voice mail so I left a Message. We'll see what happens from here.

Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101830\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Dear Danijela,

I have forwarded your message to our distributor SBI: Greg King is currently visiting Sinar in Switzerland and might not answer currently.

You can contact him at: [email protected]

Or you might contact also Dan Cuny from SBI at [email protected]

Pls.let me know if you still have problems.

Best regards,
thierry
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Thierry Hagenauer
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DominiqueMarcWehrli

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« Reply #210 on: February 20, 2007, 03:17:12 am »

Hello everyone

i would like to add some considerations regarding digital back and architectural photography. I am using an emotion 22 for 10 months (with Schneider 24/35/47xl). Everything forks fine, the emotionDNG converter by brumbaer is a realy good tool, i never take an image without a white reference shot. I am very pleased with the results that are possible with this back and the raw converter from Photoshop CS3 Beta.
Two things to consider: There is no PC-Software for the sinar (sometimes I would like to use a tablet pc for tethered shooting...) and there is a limit of usable exposure length.
Exposure times exceeding 20 to 25 seconds are a big problem with the emotion back (the e75 seems to be better in this area). Even upwards from 1 sec exposure time I now alway take a manual black reference to avoid noise blotches (this is no problem with the sinar back).
I decided against a p25 because of the extreme color shift when using the symmetric WA-Lenses. But the workflow for architecture is the same with both backs, because you can't use the emotion without a white reference. And you cant use the emotion back without the brumbaer tool when shooting untethered for architecture.
Today I would go for the p25 because of workflow and long exposures and for the emotion22 because of price and less color cast.

Regards
Dominique Wehrli
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 03:20:47 am by DominiqueMarcWehrli »
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thsinar

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« Reply #211 on: February 20, 2007, 03:23:04 am »

hi Dominique,

The long exposure times are especially an issue with high ISO settings, not so dramatic with low ISO's, IMO.

However, the new coming eMotion 54V will improves this very significantly. An the e22 can be upgraded.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Hello everyone

i would like to add some considerations regarding digital back and architectural photography. I am using an emotion 22 for 10 months (with Schneider 24/35/47xl). Everything forks fine, the emotionDNG converter by brumbaer is a realy good tool, i never take an image without a white reference shot. I am very pleased with the results that are capable with this back an the raw converter from Photoshop CS3 Beta.
Two thing to consider: There is no PC-Software for the sinar (sometimes I would like to use a tablet pc for tethered shooting...) and there is a limit of usable exposure length.
Exposure times exceeding 20 to 25 seconds are a big problem with the emotion back (the e75 semms to be better in this area). Even upwards from 1 sec exposure time I now alway take a manual black reference to avoid noise blotches (this is no problem with the sinar).
I decided against a p25 because of the extreme color shift when using the symmetric WA-Lenses. But the workflow for architecture is the same with both backs, because you can't use the emotion without a white reference. And you cant use the emotion back without the brumbaer tool when shooting untethered for architecture.
Today I would go for the p25 because of workflow and long exposures and for the emotion22 because of price and less color cast.

Regards
Dominique Wehrli
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101842\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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rainer_v

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« Reply #212 on: February 20, 2007, 03:30:54 am »

it covers my experiences also. although i would set the exposure -
time limit to 30-40 sec. with both backs, the e22+75.
you gain with the e75 one stop for its base iso50.

long exposure capacity depends also on the temperature, with hot ambient it may decrease.
its very usefull to set black references for longer exposures as you do it also.

the e75 shows more color casts than the e22, which often is (nearly) free of them, but after one time starting with brumbaers white references its no longer possible to work without them....
so big difference in the look of the files.

i agree that the advantage from the phase backs is the long exposure capacity. but i think they have other drawbacks as higher energy consumption, darker display and a faster tendency for backlight fringing and similar unwanted effects.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 03:33:17 am by rehnniar »
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rainer viertlböck
architecture photograp

DominiqueMarcWehrli

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« Reply #213 on: February 20, 2007, 03:40:28 am »

Thierry

I always work with ISO25 on a tripod. When I need longer exposures I normally make 2 to 4 captures and stack them in Photoshop to reduce noise, or take a second shot at f 5,6 to 8, so I can use this exposure to reduce shadow noise (highlights and midtones are still good at 25 sec.). I am really looking forward to the upgrade.

Rainer
I know there is always a trade off. Because I know the emotion I also know the limitations of this back (I have also to say I am really very happy with it). I would be glad to use the sinar and phase back side by side for several months. Otherwise the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence  

Regards
Dominique
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rainer_v

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« Reply #214 on: February 20, 2007, 04:11:13 am »

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Thierry

I always work with ISO25 on a tripod. When I need longer exposures I normally make 2 to 4 captures and stack them in Photoshop to reduce noise, or take a second shot at f 5,6 to 8, so I can use this exposure to reduce shadow noise (highlights and midtones are still good at 25 sec.). I am really looking forward to the upgrade.

Rainer
I know there is always a trade off. Because I know the emotion I also know the limitations of this back (I have also to say I am really very happy with it). I would be glad to use the sinar and phase back side by side for several months. Otherwise the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence   

Regards
Dominique
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101847\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

but you say it,.... it really is nessesary to use these backs for longer time side by side. its so difficult to know to use them well that fast comparations often dont make to much sense.
good to listen that you use brumbaers tools....
but.... i use the HR lenses sometimes with f4 or 5,6 in dark interior. so i rarely come to the exp. limits, but 2 stops less would be sometimes narrow. although i was reading often about that image stacking for nr , i never did that,- will try it out.
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rainer viertlböck
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #215 on: February 20, 2007, 02:24:03 pm »

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Dear Danijela,

I have forwarded your message to our distributor SBI: Greg King is currently visiting Sinar in Switzerland and might not answer currently.

You can contact him at: [email protected]

Or you might contact also Dan Cuny from SBI at [email protected]

Pls.let me know if you still have problems.

Best regards,
thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Thierry,

I have left a voice mail message to Dan Cuny yesterday, so we will see.

Regards
Danijela
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #216 on: February 20, 2007, 02:40:04 pm »

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Danijela:

I will soon post some before and after HC28mm images for you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101666\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's Great, Thank you!

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I will also post our website under my name, although our website is currently a wreck, in my opinion. It is being completely re-done, and that process will likely take about a month or two. In the meantime, bear with us.

Thanks,
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101666\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not to worry. However, I would like to contact you if everything goes well and I decide to go with H3D HC28mm, so you can send your contact number via PM. if not comfortable here.

Regards
Danijela
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #217 on: February 20, 2007, 02:42:03 pm »

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Steve Hendrix PPR DIGITAL[/span]

I almost forgot, is HC28mm AF lens?

Regards
Danijela
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pprdigital

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« Reply #218 on: February 20, 2007, 03:31:09 pm »

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Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Steve Hendrix PPR DIGITAL[/span]

I almost forgot, is HC28mm AF lens?

Regards
Danijela
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101965\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes it is AF.
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Steve Hendrix
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Danijela D. Karic

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« Reply #219 on: February 20, 2007, 06:25:57 pm »

Att: [span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Yaya[/span]

Anybody Respectable/Reliable that you would recommend in Paris, FRANCE?

I am looking for three Respectable / Reliable distributors and so far this is what
I have:

.......... » UK, London » Yaya
.......... » USA, Fotocare » Jeff, I know for sure he is Help Worthy!
.......... » FRANCE, ......Waiting for your reply......

Regards
Danijela
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