Best way to restore a Z3200 contaminated by non-hp ink?

[Kyle D Jackson]

Hi, wondering if anyone has any suggestions for this situation... I am a Z3100 owner and I have the chance to get a Z3200ps rev B essentially for free, but the owner tried some random non-hp heads and inks in it and "can't get it to work anymore" {face palm}

My question is what's the best way to flush that crap out of the printer so I can put in proper HP heads and inks? If I simply install new ones, my concern is there would still be some of the old ink in the tubes that would get pushed through the new heads, and that doesn't sound good for the new heads. So should I purge the old ink from the system entirely somehow first?

Searched around and couldn't find any info on how to "decontaminate" a printer like this. Found lots of info about purging out "stale" HP ink/heads of course (which I've done lots with my z3100), and lots of people asking about using non-hp inks, but so far I found no info about how to fix it after somebody did that to their printer.

Thanks!

[deanwork]

There used to be third party Z3200 ink carts that I believe were refillable that you could put flush fluid in. Here you go, just found them on eBay, don’t know if they are available elsewhere…


https://www.ebay.com/itm/193085139824

. There are also third party Chinese  inks that functioned normally but did not have good longevity . If that’s what was in there they weren’t gunk and if you put good Hp inks and heads in there you could just print color targets with plan bond paper to flush it all out. The cone piezo flush solution works really well but those damn bright pink dyes in them take forever to get out of the light channels like yellow.

Might try MIS Associates ( ink supply.com ) .  If it were me I’d buy this and the refillable carts .

https://www.inksupply.com/product-details/pn/MIS-FLUID-GL.html?printerID=0

John

Hi, wondering if anyone has any suggestions for this situation... I am a Z3100 owner and I have the chance to get a Z3200ps rev B essentially for free, but the owner tried some random non-hp heads and inks in it and "can't get it to work anymore" {face palm}

My question is what's the best way to flush that crap out of the printer so I can put in proper HP heads and inks? If I simply install new ones, my concern is there would still be some of the old ink in the tubes that would get pushed through the new heads, and that doesn't sound good for the new heads. So should I purge the old ink from the system entirely somehow first?

Searched around and couldn't find any info on how to "decontaminate" a printer like this. Found lots of info about purging out "stale" HP ink/heads of course (which I've done lots with my z3100), and lots of people asking about using non-hp inks, but so far I found no info about how to fix it after somebody did that to their printer.

Thanks!

[Kyle D Jackson]

Hi John, thanks for that info. I don't know yet what brand of ink and heads they tried, they just said "cheap ink from China" (and I haven't seen the printer in person yet).

So it seems to be a choice between pushing the remainder of this unknown ink thru brand new hp heads, or pushing the cleaning fluid through brand new heads. Either way I'm concerned about contaminating a brand new set of heads ($700 in Canada). I just don't know what's in those inks they bought, I mean it could be water and food dye, who knows (ok, probably not, but you get the point).

And it's obviously going to burn a bunch of good HP ink and paper before I can be sure it's delivering pure hp ink consistently enough again to trust it for cal/profiling.

I also reached out to LPS and they also suggested either simply running the old ink out through new HP heads, or using the syringe primer tool to draw the old ink out first. The latter sounds like a good option to me, because it will minimize any mystery ink getting into brand new heads. I would just need to figure out how much ink I need to draw from each line to be sure the old ink is gone and the new ink has reached the head carriage.

[deanwork]

If you can push the old ink out first that would be ideal.

I’ve never heard of cloned Z heads, that’s a new one on me.

Hi John, thanks for that info. I don't know yet what brand of ink and heads they tried, they just said "cheap ink from China" (and I haven't seen the printer in person yet).

So it seems to be a choice between pushing the remainder of this unknown ink thru brand new hp heads, or pushing the cleaning fluid through brand new heads. Either way I'm concerned about contaminating a brand new set of heads ($700 in Canada). I just don't know what's in those inks they bought, I mean it could be water and food dye, who knows (ok, probably not, but you get the point).

And it's obviously going to burn a bunch of good HP ink and paper before I can be sure it's delivering pure hp ink consistently enough again to trust it for cal/profiling.

I also reached out to LPS and they also suggested either simply running the old ink out through new HP heads, or using the syringe primer tool to draw the old ink out first. The latter sounds like a good option to me, because it will minimize any mystery ink getting into brand new heads. I would just need to figure out how much ink I need to draw from each line to be sure the old ink is gone and the new ink has reached the head carriage.

[dgberg]

Not sure I would be too quick to shade all the third party inks. Have had the z3200 going on 4 years and maybe use it for a print or two every other month. (Backup to our Epson fleet)
We started using the LD inks and they just last and last with no issues. I have maybe done a half dozen nozzle checks and two cleans in four years total. Wish my Epson's ran like that.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Maybe someone knows how much ink is lost in the purge action to prime the tubes on a new printer.  The manual says that the cartridges have to be over 88% filled for that, otherwise the purge action will not happen. So about 100ml per color channel. However the inner tube radius is about 0,12cm so 0,0452cm2 area, length approx 240cm, 11ml would be enough to fill one tube.

Pulling HP inks through per tube. Use a 60ML syringe with a tube to a salvaged head connector that connects to one tube pin in the head carriage. Not both pins connected!  I kept the orange plugs that come with a new printer and made them open for the job, see the images added. The black one is a salvaged head one that can be attached to a tube as easily.

On the other side of that ink channel you plug in a HP carts that contains at least 30ml (cart should weigh about 80 grams). Don't pull the 30ml through but less.  Too much pulled through and it is possible you suck air in the tube.

I would not pull the old ink out first and then bring in the HP original ink, which would be possible if you added just a cleaned connector of a cart in the cart bay. Nor would I bring in other fluids to 'clean' the ink channel. 

Actually I suspect a recently purchased Z3200 has some third party inks in its tubes, it came with new extra third party carts but only one on the machine. My choice is to print my own images on that machine till its fit for customers, with HP inks.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[deanwork]

It all depends on whether after some cleanings you have no ink coming through the nozzle check patterns. For the channels that are not coming through at all I’d put in some of my expired heads to see if the heads are what are clogged before I start running flush fluid through it. But I have a lot of old heads in case I ever needed to do that.

In my case, I had a Z3100 with a broken belt .  I quit using it for a year and was going to use it for parts. It was turned off for over a year A great HP tech came over to service my Z3200 and convinced me I should fix the Z 3100 while he was there. He accidentally broke something on the carriage so he replaced the entire carriage unit  at the same time. I think he charged me $300.00 for all of that and I have like a new printer. That was a rare situation .he didn’t want to see me abandon it.

Anyway,  I was concerned that I’d have ink dried in the lines and it would be a big messy deal to restore it.  He said no, the lines are completely sealed from the heads to the ink carts. He was right, I only had to replace two heads and they were out of date anyway. This is not true with Epson printers where ink often does dry in the lines if just sitting there where even flush fluid might not clear them.

If you don’t have any old heads you might be able to find some cheaply on eBay.

If this is decent third party  ink it might be just a matter of replacing heads that are clogged and running cheap paper through it .

Maybe someone knows how much ink is lost in the purge action to prime the tubes on a new printer.  The manual says that the cartridges have to be over 88% filled for that, otherwise the purge action will not happen. So about 100ml per color channel. However the inner tube radius is about 0,12cm so 0,0452cm2 area, length approx 240cm, 11ml would be enough to fill one tube.

Pulling HP inks through per tube. Use a 60ML syringe with a tube to a salvaged head connector that connects to one tube pin in the head carriage. Not both pins connected!  I kept the orange plugs that come with a new printer and made them open for the job, see the images added. The black one is a salvaged head one that can be attached to a tube as easily.

On the other side of that ink channel you plug in a HP carts that contains at least 30ml (cart should weigh about 80 grams). Don't pull the 30ml through but less.  Too much pulled through and it is possible you suck air in the tube.

I would not pull the old ink out first and then bring in the HP original ink, which would be possible if you added just a cleaned connector of a cart in the cart bay. Nor would I bring in other fluids to 'clean' the ink channel. 

Actually I suspect a recently purchased Z3200 has some third party inks in its tubes, it came with new extra third party carts but only one on the machine. My choice is to print my own images on that machine till its fit for customers, with HP inks.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Kyle D Jackson]

Thanks so much John, Ernst, and Dan!  Sorry for the slow reply, there was a nationwide internet outage and then I was driving across country all day yesterday.

John, you're probably right about "clone heads". I probably misunderstood the owner.  They basically said "it needs new heads and inks, they tried some cheap stuff they bought online, and it didn't like it". I assumed that meant heads too, but I think you're right, it's probably still hp heads and just non-hp ink.

Ernst, great idea using those caps that way! Wish I still had those. In my case I think it is probably easier for me to buy the priming syringe pump that LPS sells.

Dan, I'm waiting to hear what ink the owner used. It sounds like it was a bad match and it wouldn't print for them. I'd rather just remove it, and that way I can rely on consistent print profiles, etc.

Originally I assumed I would install new HP ink, then use the syringe to pull out the old ink until the new ink reaches the carriage, which is kind of a guess how much to pull, then install the new heads and run a bunch of diags, purge plots, etc until the output was consistent. But now I wonder about this idea: what if I use the syringe first with no ink carts installed? I would pull the old ink thru until I get nothing but air. Yes the lines are now full of air, but ideally almost empty of old ink. Next I install the new hp ink carts and then use the syringe again to pull the air out until the new ink reaches the carriage. My understanding is this is the same method as priming a printer after new empty tubes are installed. By using this method it could reduce the potential for any mixing of the old and new inks in the tubes. Also I won't have to guess how much ink to pull, it will be obvious when the new ink reaches the carriage. That could help reduce waste of new ink.

I could do the initial test/purge prints with the old heads if they are still working, and then switch to the new heads. I like the suggestion to keep the old heads afterward in case they are helpful for stuff like this in the future. I've had good luck recovering blocked heads in my Z3100. Only the troublesome MK-R had to be replaced 3 times..., and now that I recently learned how to open and clean the capping station, I think those MKR "failures" were preventable.

Thanks so much! 

[deanwork]

One thing I have done in the past in a pinch is to remove a problem head and put a solution of half distilled water and half alcohol on a small plastic container and soak the heads in that. That has worked for me and others. You just don’t want the water level to submerge the electronic sensor area.

[Kyle D Jackson]

One thing I have done in the past in a pinch is to remove a problem head and put a solution of half distilled water and half alcohol on a small plastic container and soak the heads in that. That has worked for me and others. You just don’t want the water level to submerge the electronic sensor area.

Yup I've done similar, especially trying to salvage MK-R heads, and had some success with it (not always). For this printer I found for sale, I honestly have no idea yet what is the state of the heads, especially with mystery ink in them, so I'm assuming to buy all new heads to be sure of good results. But if I can restore at least some of the old heads, by purging, cleaning, etc, then that would be lucky bonus, and maybe they might be worth keeping on the shelf for a future emergency. I'm just not counting on it tho when doing the math of what it will cost to get this machine running again. I think I should budget for all new heads and make my decision based on that.

Cheers

[Kyle D Jackson]

Update: I finally bought this used z3200ps I found. I'm slowly working through testing it out, cleaning heads, etc. I'm across the country so I'm literally doing this in the back of my truck lol just puttering with it for something to do until I get it back home.

It came with a full set of original hp heads and inks, plus a full set of "non-hp heads and inks". It turns out the "non-hp heads" are actually "remanufactured" hp heads. All the original hp stickers have been removed and replaced by ones with the name "Best" on them, and the hp logo that is stamped into the plastic on the bottom of the heads have been "burned" off (see pics). This is the first time I've encountered re-manufactured hp70 heads.

The printer seems to be rejecting these refurbished heads, and if I understand correctly, the owner was never able to get it to print with them installed. They tried 3 of them, including a hp70 MK-R head instead of a hp73 chromatic red head. Personally I don't plan to use them, so I've removed them and re-installed the original hp heads, and am slowly working through the process to get the printer to accept them.

Similarly for the "non-hp inks", it looks like they only tried 2 of them (grey and gloss enhancer). There is no brand name on the inks, so they don't appear to be the same "Best" brand as the refurbished heads. I don't think any of this non-hp ink ever got into the machine since the printer kept rejecting the refurb heads. This is good news as it means I probably don't need to waste time purging lines, or at most only have to purge 2 of them. The other 10 are still all original hp ink. The hp ink is not very old (2019-ish), so lots of good supplies to work with.

I think putting in new hp heads might be all I need, if I can't get the old hp heads unclogged. Hopeful that's the only thing wrong with it.

[plasakow]

Not sure I would be too quick to shade all the third party inks. Have had the z3200 going on 4 years and maybe use it for a print or two every other month. (Backup to our Epson fleet)
We started using the LD inks and they just last and last with no issues. I have maybe done a half dozen nozzle checks and two cleans in four years total. Wish my Epson's ran like that.

I've been running 2 identical Z300s for six years using Macro Enter inks. Each printer does about 2000 prints annually. I buy the ink in litre bottles and use refillable 280ml tanks from Alibaba. I also use OEM but "expired" printheads I buy new in unopened HP packaging on eBay for a fraction of what they cost through conventional channels. I've converted the printers once or twice back to OEM inks for troubleshooting purposes (the problem was never the inks). While I can't tell the difference between OEM and Macro Enter inks once they hit the page, the X factor is admittedly the aftermarket ink's longevity. One way or the other, I have saved many thousands of dollars over the years.