Covid General discussions

[Alan Klein]

Biden agrees finally with the Supreme Court and will follow the law.

OSHA withdraws its workplace vaccine rule.
In pulling the rule, the Biden administration acknowledged what most businesses expected: the plan to make companies mandate vaccines-or-tests is over.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/25/business/osha-vaccine-mandate.html

Of course they're winking at the court and still moving to create a standard.  Sounds like what people complained Trump did, but didn't.

"Although OSHA is withdrawing the vaccination and testing ETS as an enforceable emergency temporary standard, the agency is not withdrawing the ETS as a proposed rule. The agency is prioritizing its resources to focus on finalizing a permanent COVID-19 Healthcare Standard," the statement read.
The withdrawal of the emergency temporary standard "does not affect the ETS's continuing status as a proposed rule," a US Department of Labor spokesperson told CNN in a statement.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/25/politics/vaccine-mandate-osha-withdrawn/index.html

[marvpelkey]

As some of this thread has touched on Covid tests, thought I would offer:

Just prior to Christmas, and after booking flights for three (son, d-i-l, granddaughter) from Denver to Seattle, the three visited a local pharmacy and took PCR tests (required as they were driving from Seattle across the border to Canada). The day before the flight (leaving at 7 am the next morning), the test results came back and son, g'daughter were negative while d-i-l was positive. She took a home test to confirm, which came back negative. Due to the disparity in the results and that all three were living together and in close contact, and the other two were negative, she attempted to arrange a second PCR, but only appointment was after the morning flight left, so flights cancelled.

Next morning, she took the second PCR test, results were expedited, and it came back negative. She was advised by the lab staff, that PCR tests give false positives 1 in 1000 times.

As no chance of arranging a new, inexpensive, flight to Seattle (the 24th), I bit the bullet and booked all three direct to Vancouver. Funny enough, upon arrival at YVR and while going through customs, the g'daughter (9 yrs old) was secondary'd for the purpose of a "random" Covid test (even though proof of negative tests were provided). As a result, all three took a test. All were negative.

So, the false positive result cost me $2000, compared to the $250 it was going to cost for the initial flights. Yay.

Marv

[chez]

As some of this thread has touched on Covid tests, thought I would offer:

Just prior to Christmas, and after booking flights for three (son, d-i-l, granddaughter) from Denver to Seattle, the three visited a local pharmacy and took PCR tests (required as they were driving from Seattle across the border to Canada). The day before the flight (leaving at 7 am the next morning), the test results came back and son, g'daughter were negative while d-i-l was positive. She took a home test to confirm, which came back negative. Due to the disparity in the results and that all three were living together and in close contact, and the other two were negative, she attempted to arrange a second PCR, but only appointment was after the morning flight left, so flights cancelled.

Next morning, she took the second PCR test, results were expedited, and it came back negative. She was advised by the lab staff, that PCR tests give false positives 1 in 1000 times.

As no chance of arranging a new, inexpensive, flight to Seattle (the 24th), I bit the bullet and booked all three direct to Vancouver. Funny enough, upon arrival at YVR and while going through customs, the g'daughter (9 yrs old) was secondary'd for the purpose of a "random" Covid test (even though proof of negative tests were provided). As a result, all three took a test. All were negative.

So, the false positive result cost me $2000, compared to the $250 it was going to cost for the initial flights. Yay.

Marv

Canadian government recommends not to travel internationally right now. I guess one takes their chances and pays for these chances.

[LesPalenik]

COVID-19 infections have decreased in 19 states plus Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico, an analysis of the past week through Thursday compared with the prior week showed.

In the Northeast, which saw some of the highest case loads during the latest surge, infections are down 40% week-over-week.

"Certainly it bodes well for us in terms of the trajectory of Omicron," said Wafaa El-Sadr, a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Columbia University in New York City.

The drop was more modest at the national level, with new reported COVID-19 cases down 7% during the same time period, according to the Reuters tally, as Omicron surges in some other parts of the country.

Something must have changed. Yesterday, US had over 500K infections and over 3K deaths. In Canada we had 226 deaths which is also a higher number than in preceding months.

[Alan Klein]

The "instant" test I took from iHealth is an Antigen Rapid Test with the strip that has one or two lines that appear after taking a nose swab sample. It says that if you come up negative, you should take at least another test.  So I'll have my wife pick up another two test box at the pharmacy.  This test was made in China.

I have another test that I received a couple of weeks ago.  It's where you send the saliva sample back for processing to their lab that takes 2-3 days for results. That's the one that does a Zoom meeting to take you through the test.  Unfortunately, their website did not take the serial number from the kit and would not proceed.  I tried contacting them but they haven't returned my call or email.  That's very disappointing.  That's why I took the iHealth instant test as a backup. The company handling the processing is called Vault Health.  But the test is actually made by Spectrum Solutions in Draper, Utah although the box says it was Made in Mexico.  The test is named SDNA-1000.  Here's the link.  Is this a PCR test?
https://spectrumsolution.com/?s=sdna-1000

So I finally got it all straightened out.  For some reason, iHealth had a hold on the serial numbers for both PCR tests.   They cleared it and I did a Zoom meeting for the collection which has gone out to them by UPS yesterday.  It takes 2-3 days for the result.  Since I'm feeling a lot better, I figured I just had a cold, my first in two years, especially since the quick test was negative.  It still could have been Omicrom as many report no more than a cold.

In any case, while trying to clear up the serial number problem, I spoke to the manufacturer of the PCR test in Utah, the Director of Marketing and Brand who coincidentally came down with Covid recently which left her with an ear infection that had to be cleared up with regular antibiotics. They test their staff every two days. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Sometimes I think I'm watching an episode of the Twilight Zone, https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/591519-desantis-leans-into-covid-19-treatment-fight-amid-2024-chatter.

Why is DeSantis so invested in monoclonal treatments? Surely medical treatments are the purview of people who know about these things, they're not political decisions. I find it so difficult to believe that people would look to a politician for guidance about their health over that of their doctor. This is spectacular dysfunction. This is the kind of thing you see in cults.

[Robert Roaldi]

Something must have changed. Yesterday, US had over 500K infections and over 3K deaths. In Canada we had 226 deaths which is also a higher number than in preceding months.

The timing is just a few weeks after Christmas. Maybe if enough people ignored social distancing guidelines during the holiday season it would have the effect of people dying right about now. It's all so predictable.

[Alan Klein]

Something must have changed. Yesterday, US had over 500K infections and over 3K deaths. In Canada we had 226 deaths which is also a higher number than in preceding months.

Deaths seem to be going up but cases are going down.  Cases in NJ went from 32,000 Jan 10th to around 5000, a substantial decrease which bodes well.  Deaths went up from 60 to 111 since Jan 10th (both trends are 7 day moving avgs.)  It seems deaths follow cases by a couple of weeks.

For the USA in total cases went from 755K down to 627K and deaths from 1700 up to 2200.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailycases

[Alan Klein]

Sometimes I think I'm watching an episode of the Twilight Zone, https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/591519-desantis-leans-into-covid-19-treatment-fight-amid-2024-chatter.

Why is DeSantis so invested in monoclonal treatments? Surely medical treatments are the purview of people who know about these things, they're not political decisions. I find it so difficult to believe that people would look to a politician for guidance about their health over that of their doctor. This is spectacular dysfunction. This is the kind of thing you see in cults.

That's strange.  Many Republicans think Democrats have been acting like they're in a cult.  TDS is a Democrat affliction.

[Robert Roaldi]

That's strange.  Many Republicans think Democrats have been acting like they're in a cult.  TDS is a Democrat affliction.

Ok, but why is DeSantis pushing untested medical interventions when proven better ones exist?  I get it that Americans are in love with the myth of "rebels" but seriously now, who takes medical advice from politicians?

[Alan Klein]

Ok, but why is DeSantis pushing untested medical interventions when proven better ones exist?  I get it that Americans are in love with the myth of "rebels" but seriously now, who takes medical advice from politicians?

He running a cult.    Anyway, Floridians are strange.  I think it's all that sun.  First, you get all those snowbirds who grew up in the northern climes in the bitter cold.  Then they move to Florida to warm up and the heat gets to them.   My father and sister moved there in retirement.  My wife refuses to go preferring the snows of NJ.

[chez]

He running a cult.    Anyway, Floridians are strange.  I think it's all that sun.  First, you get all those snowbirds who grew up in the northern climes in the bitter cold.  Then they move to Florida to warm up and the heat gets to them.   My father and sister moved there in retirement.  My wife refuses to go preferring the snows of NJ.

Why stop at Florida. I keep going into Mexico. Heading to Sayulita at the end of February. Better culture...better food.

[Alan Klein]

So I finally got it all straightened out.  For some reason, iHealth had a hold on the serial numbers for both PCR tests.   They cleared it and I did a Zoom meeting for the collection which has gone out to them by UPS yesterday.  It takes 2-3 days for the result.  Since I'm feeling a lot better, I figured I just had a cold, my first in two years, especially since the quick test was negative.  It still could have been Omicrom as many report no more than a cold.

In any case, while trying to clear up the serial number problem, I spoke to the manufacturer of the PCR test in Utah, the Director of Marketing and Brand who coincidentally came down with Covid recently which left her with an ear infection that had to be cleared up with regular antibiotics. They test their staff every two days. 

Well my PCR is negative.  So i just had a cold.  I'm impressed with the test turnaround time.  Less than 14 goes from the time UPS picked it up in my town until I got an email fron the lab.  They received it about 7 hours earlier.

[Robert Roaldi]

It was a bad week in the US for Covid according to Worldometer. The 7-day moving average of daily deaths finished the week at well over 2000 deaths per day, with one single day getting above 3000 and two others at around 2700 or so. Total since the start is over 900,000 now, which could hit one million by end of February or March, about the 2 year mark, although I'm not sure when is considered the start. So that's close to 500,000 per year. I wonder what that number would have been without masks, distancing or vaccines.

I caught a glimpse of some NFL playoff games, and people in the stands weren't distanced or wearing masks, so it looks like some people are behaving as if the worst is over, which seems premature to me, especially considering the death data. But the people in the stands weren't dead, so that's ok then.

Here in Canada, public health is now saying that the Omicron infection has peaked in most of the country. I hope that's correct. The 7-day moving average of deaths still seems to be climbing though, the lag effect I assume. We're at about 160 deaths per day.

Many epidemiologists were saying at the start of Covid to expect about 4 years of waves, if history is a guide. That won't be far wrong. If I remember correctly, I think they said that deaths in the last 2 years would decrease a lot, before the infection becomes "endemic". Lucky for us all those researchers were beavering away in their labs in the last few decades, because without vaccines life would be a lot more difficult. But neither they nor the public health doctors will get any credit except in a few books.

[Alan Klein]

Well my PCR is negative.  So i just had a cold.  I'm impressed with the test turnaround time.  Less than 14 26 hours from the time UPS picked it up in my town until I got an email fron the lab.  They received it about 7 hours earlier.

It was 26 hours not 14, still pretty good turnaround time.

[Alan Klein]

It was a bad week in the US for Covid according to Worldometer. The 7-day moving average of daily deaths finished the week at well over 2000 deaths per day, with one single day getting above 3000 and two others at around 2700 or so. Total since the start is over 900,000 now, which could hit one million by end of February or March, about the 2 year mark, although I'm not sure when is considered the start. So that's close to 500,000 per year. I wonder what that number would have been without masks, distancing or vaccines.

I caught a glimpse of some NFL playoff games, and people in the stands weren't distanced or wearing masks, so it looks like some people are behaving as if the worst is over, which seems premature to me, especially considering the death data. But the people in the stands weren't dead, so that's ok then.

Here in Canada, public health is now saying that the Omicron infection has peaked in most of the country. I hope that's correct. The 7-day moving average of deaths still seems to be climbing though, the lag effect I assume. We're at about 160 deaths per day.

Many epidemiologists were saying at the start of Covid to expect about 4 years of waves, if history is a guide. That won't be far wrong. If I remember correctly, I think they said that deaths in the last 2 years would decrease a lot, before the infection becomes "endemic". Lucky for us all those researchers were beavering away in their labs in the last few decades, because without vaccines life would be a lot more difficult. But neither they nor the public health doctors will get any credit except in a few books.

We wouldn't have had Covid if they weren't "beavering" away in their labs. 

[Robert Roaldi]

We wouldn't have had Covid if they weren't "beavering" away in their labs.

What a spectacularly ignorant statement.

But besides that, I thought you were in favour of vaccines. Are you actually against them "politically" but only took them because they work? Must be difficult to want to preserve your health while at the same time wanting to tow the crazy-"right" line. I noticed that lately you have actually said some negative things about Trump. Are you upset that he is too pro-vaccine, worried it might dilute the vote? Must be one hell of a dilemma. Tell us, do you secretly admire those clowns on their Covid death beds who continue to "tweet" about how it was all a hoax or how most people in hospital are there because of vaccines and not the virus. Must be a torment.

You could at least try to be consistent.

[Alan Klein]

What a spectacularly ignorant statement.

But besides that, I thought you were in favour of vaccines. Are you actually against them "politically" but only took them because they work? Must be difficult to want to preserve your health while at the same time wanting to tow the crazy-"right" line. I noticed that lately you have actually said some negative things about Trump. Are you upset that he is too pro-vaccine, worried it might dilute the vote? Must be one hell of a dilemma. Tell us, do you secretly admire those clowns on their Covid death beds who continue to "tweet" about how it was all a hoax or how most people in hospital are there because of vaccines and not the virus. Must be a torment.

You could at least try to be consistent.

Your constant inaccuracies about my beliefs are as astounding as your insults. Your views of people who disagree with you are distorted. They're caricatures.

I'm for vaccines and feel everyone should take them.  I've said that over and over.  However, I believe that individual decisions go into what people want to do, especially since no one has a complete handle on what are the correct procedures.  Add to that the economic effect, and people have made various decisions about what to do in all areas not just vaccines.  Lumping everyone together as you and others here do shows limited thinking on your part, a need to call the shots for the whole world.  Only you have the answers.

But we're discussing something else too.  Is it necessary to develop new strains of virus-like Covid-19 that can kill millions of people if it escaped from the lab which it did?  We should re-examine just how far research should go.  I believe we shot ourselves in the foot, or China did, or maybe we both did.  There's some discussion that America paid for some of that research in Wuhan.   Why are we developing strains that are so dangerous?  It seems very foolhardy to me.

[Peter McLennan]

Is it necessary to develop new strains of virus-like Covid-19 that can kill millions of people if it escaped from the lab which it did?

Alan, that is precisely what Robert called it:  "A spectacularly ignorant statement" 

You have precisely zero knowledge of the origins of Covid. You are not a medical professional. You're a guy with a computer in New Jersey.

As well as ignorant, your statement qualifies as intentional, dangerous and divisive disinformation. 

You are the problem.

[Peter McLennan]

TDS is a Democrat affliction.

TDS is a Trump affliction.