Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: Alan Klein on January 17, 2022, 12:08:35 pm
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This thread is to discuss all issues relating to Covid.
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This week, Quebec Premier François Legault announced a plan to introduce a tax on people who refuse to get vaccinated against COVID-19. It would be a considerable step beyond what any jurisdiction in Canada has done to this point and it's unclear how it would work. But there are other places around the world that have tried similar things.
I don't think that would be constitutional in America. It really is a fine, not a tax. The government isn't allowed to fine people for not buying things or doing things they don;t want to do or have no jurisdiction over. Does this meet with Canadian constitutional law? Maybe that's why they're calling it a tax to get around the law.
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I don't think that would be constitutional in America. It really is a fine, not a tax. The government isn't allowed to fine people for not buying things or doing things they don;t want to do or have no jurisdiction over. Does this meet with Canadian constitutional law? Maybe that's why they're calling it a tax to get around the law.
Canadians are now more worried about all the snow we've been getting since last night. The snow drifts are already half a meter deep and more snow is expected. My street and sidewalk which are usually cleared within an hour or so, haven't been cleared yet. The snow storm should mitigate the spread of the virus, because many stores and offices have been closed due to the hazardous driving conditions. OTOH, more people will die due to cardiac arrests as they attempt to shovel their driveways. Especially, if they recently contracted common cold or covid.
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I thought Canadians vacation in Florida during the winter where the governor there tells us it's safe.
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Who says wedding photographers can't make a living?
How a wedding photographer and a failed donut shop owner got $124M in federal cash for COVID testing
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEKcN60M2iku3iMi7LgYXUrEqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowjsP7CjCSpPQCMM_b5QU?uo=CAUiANIBAA&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
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I thought Canadians vacation in Florida during the winter where the governor there tells us it's safe.
Some do. There are multiple options available. Cuba being quite attractive for many reasons.
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Frankly I'd go to Timbuktu to get away I'm so stir crazy from being cooped up for two years.
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One Toronto couple I know, used to overwinter in Yucatan for years, this year they rented a flat on Vancouver Island.
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Things are looking a lot better in New Jersey. Cases are down but things are bad for businesses especially restaurants. I grabbed a bite in a little diner nearby and there were around four patrons. I understand in NYC the government-imposed rules so you can't get into a restaurant unless you show a photo ID and your vaccination records card. It seems it's harder to eat than vote.
25 N.J. restaurants we can’t afford to lose to COVID
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2022/01/25-nj-restaurants-we-cant-afford-to-lose-to-covid.html
Coronavirus (COVID-19) statistics
https://www.bing.com/search?q=cases+nj+covid&form=ANNTH1&refig=7543804b244e4c9d91b3c397b844444e
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Since about Aug/Sept of last year, we here in BC (and Alberta, at least Jasper and Banff areas) have been showing our provincial vaccination card (digital - we now have a federal one) and ID to get into restaurants. Takes two seconds when entering. A mask is worn until seated, although not sure about that component as the style/quality is up to the user.
Marv
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I thought Canadians vacation in Florida during the winter where the governor there tells us it's safe.
The governor may feel safe, but the reality speaks otherwise.
My friend's wife in Florida picked up yesterday covid virus from her grandson when she was babysitting him.
She had 3 shots, the grandson is 6 year old. So even if fully vaccinated, if you don't practice distancing, you can contract the virus.
And young kids can infect their parents and grandparents. BTW, the parents already had the covid 2-3 weeks ago, I don't know if they got now again.
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Sorry about your friends. Hope they're doing better.
AOC went to Florida without any children, stayed healthy, and had a good time. Maybe that's the trick.
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USA Today reports that omicron is not that mild. They project 50,000 to 300,000 more US deaths by March.
For anyone getting complacent about the coronavirus because the now-dominant omicron variant typically causes less-severe disease than previous strains, here's a sobering thought: 50,000 to 300,000 more Americans may die of COVID-19 before the current surge ebbs in mid-March. Those are the projections of modelers, according to an Associated Press story, and they provide a grim reminder that omicron's remarkable infectiousness more than makes up for its seemingly softer punch.
The seven-day rolling average for daily new COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. has been trending upward since mid-November, reaching nearly 1,700 on Monday – still well below the peak of 3,300 in January 2021. The biggest concern in the coming weeks is reflected by simple math: Even if new infections have peaked in some parts of the U.S., they're averaging around 800,000 a day nationwide, more than three times as many as in that brutal wave a year ago. That will inevitably lead to hospitals stretched beyond their limits and thousands of deaths. There are currently about 150,000 patients in hospitals with COVID.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/01/18/omicron-final-wave-fauci-nursing-homes-covid-updates/6556051001/
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It's already peaked in NJ where I live and in the US generally. Cases have been going down.
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Here's the chart.
https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+cases&oq=covid+cases&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i402l2j0i131i433i512l3j0i512l2j0i271.11773j0j7&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
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Contracting covid in order to obtain immunity and being done with it is not such a great idea.
A Czech folk singer who was opposed to having a coronavirus vaccine has died after deliberately contracting the virus, according to her son. Hana Horká, of the folk band Asonance, died Sunday at the age of 57 after intentionally exposing herself to the virus at home while her son and husband were sick, according to CNN affiliate CNN Prima News. Horká wanted to infect herself so she could be "done with Covid," her son, Jan Rek, told Prima News on Monday.
The idea of intentionally trying to catch the Omicron Covid-19 variant is increasingly popular, but doctors have warned against doing so. "People are talking about Omicron like it's a bad cold. It is not a bad cold," said Dr. Robert Murphy, executive director of the Havey Institute for Global Health at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago, Illinois. "It's a life-threatening disease."
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/europe/czech-singer-death-deliberate-covid-infection-intl/index.html
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Contracting covid in order to obtain immunity and being done with it is not such a great idea.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/europe/czech-singer-death-deliberate-covid-infection-intl/index.html
The article did not indicate which variant of Covid he got and died from. Was it Omicron, Delta or something else. It didn't say.
In any case, with Delta and other variants still around, one would be crazy to deliberately try to get Covid. Which variant would you get? If Omicron was the only one around, I could see how many young, healthy people might not worry about it or take precautions.
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The article did not indicate which variant of Covid he got and died from. Was it Omicron, Delta or something else. It didn't say.
In any case, with Delta and other variants still around, one would be crazy to deliberately try to get Covid. Which variant would you get? If Omicron was the only one around, I could see how many young, healthy people might not worry about it or take precautions.
That judgement is premature. Although Omicron might be milder than previous variants, that doesn't mean it's mild.
Based on rough numbers, Covid has been about 10 times more deadly than "normal" flu. If Omicron is even half as deadly as previous Covid variants, it would still be 5 times more deadly than "normal" flu. The final numbers aren't in yet, there's no need to make rash assumptions. You don't know until you know.
US daily deaths (7 day average as per Worldometer) are still well above 1500 per day, so it's NOT over yet, not even close. I don't understand why you seem to have this need to minimize the risk. Is there an agenda here besides saving lives and suffering?
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Why you should get a booster even though you could still get Omicron:
Though COVID-19 vaccines and boosters provide strong protection against severe disease, hospitalizations, and deaths, the quickly-spreading Omicron variant remains a significant challenge. With a daily average of more than 750,000 cases in the U.S., some doubt the vaccines' effectiveness and wonder, 'Why get the booster if I can still get infected?"
But Dr. Eric Topol, founder and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute, said people's doubts are misplaced. "The Omicron variant provides "a 90% reduction of hospitalizations," Topol said, adding that after three months that number can drop to 80%.
That is still comparable to two doses versus the original strain, Topol said. Third doses of Pfizer (PFE)/BioNTech's (BNTX) and Moderna (MRNA)'s shots — both mRNA vaccines — have shown strong results against Omicron. And Johnson & Johnson's (JNJ) has shown its two doses are able to hold durable protection over a long period of time.
But because the U.S. has a low booster rate, the Omicron variant is affecting more people, though overall the strain is milder compared to previous variants. It's why hospitalizations continue to strain the country's health care systems, setting new records daily, with more than 159,000 individuals in hospitals now, according to the CDC.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-you-should-get-a-booster-even-though-you-can-still-get-infected-scientist-165549093.html
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That judgement is premature. Although Omicron might be milder than previous variants, that doesn't mean it's mild.
Based on rough numbers, Covid has been about 10 times more deadly than "normal" flu. If Omicron is even half as deadly as previous Covid variants, it would still be 5 times more deadly than "normal" flu. The final numbers aren't in yet, there's no need to make rash assumptions. You don't know until you know.
US daily deaths (7 day average as per Worldometer) are still well above 1500 per day, so it's NOT over yet, not even close. I don't understand why you seem to have this need to minimize the risk. Is there an agenda here besides saving lives and suffering?
I'm not minimiing the risk. I protect myself. But the article should have indicated which variant he died from. They made it seem like it was Omicron but they were not definitive. It seems therefore like just another scare article.
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I'm not minimiing the risk. I protect myself. But the article should have indicated which variant he died from. They made it seem like it was Omicron but they were not definitive. It seems therefore like just another scare article.
Do they test every case? Is it possible they didn't know?
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I'm not minimiing the risk. I protect myself. But the article should have indicated which variant he died from. They made it seem like it was Omicron but they were not definitive. It seems therefore like just another scare article.
Well given it occurred recently...there's a good bet it was Omicron. There are plenty young people in hospitals or morgues to tell you letting your guards down now is really stupid.
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Do they test every case? Is it possible they didn't know?
The thing is more people are taking chances thinking that Omicron is safer, which it is. Not indicating if it was Delta he died from if it was, doesn't advance knowledge much. Meanwhile the article repeats the word Omicron about 7 times making it seem like that's what he had, never mentioning Delta, and never stating explicitly what he died from. For all we know he went in with Covid but died of a heart attack. It seems they had an agenda with the article. It's stuff like that which makes people suspicious.
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Well given it occurred recently...there's a good bet it was Omicron. There are plenty young people in hospitals or morgues to tell you letting your guards down now is really stupid.
Many are claiming we should follow the science. There's no science in guessing about what he died from. The article seems like clickbait.
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Many are claiming we should follow the science. There's no science in guessing about what he died from. The article seems like clickbait.
You're jumping to conclusions. It could just be a mistake or simply bad reporting. You have the byline, just email and ask.
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You're jumping to conclusions. It could just be a mistake or simply bad reporting. You have the byline, just email and ask.
The average reader isn;t going to send an email for a clarification. The problem is that with so many questioning the honesty of reporting, the hypocrisy of politicians who issue mandates and then personally disregard them, etc, these kinds of articles just raise more doubt in already doubting people.
If we want these outliers to change their minds and get vaccinations and follow what seems to be the right path, the news has to be more meticulously provided. Politicians and scientists in particular have to be honest and forthright instead of often playing politics with the whole thing.
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The thing is more people are taking chances thinking that Omicron is safer, which it is. Not indicating if it was Delta he died from if it was, doesn't advance knowledge much. Meanwhile the article repeats the word Omicron about 7 times making it seem like that's what he had, never mentioning Delta, and never stating explicitly what he died from. For all we know he went in with Covid but died of a heart attack. It seems they had an agenda with the article. It's stuff like that which makes people suspicious.
If Omicron is ten times less dangerous but also ten times more transmissible, we would end up with roughly the same outcome as in Delta times. Which actually correlates with the latest casualty numbers. In USA, the recent deaths fluctuate in the 1,500-2,000 range, and in Canada the deaths seem to be also on rise (150-200). So Omicron is far from being harmless.
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If Omicron is ten times less dangerous but also ten times more transmissible, we would end up with roughly the same outcome as in Delta times. Which actually correlates with the latest casualty numbers. In USA, the recent deaths fluctuate in the 1,500-2,000 range, and in Canada the deaths seem to be also on rise (150-200). So Omicron is far from being harmless.
What I was pointing out is the article is biased. It makes it seem like this guy died of Omicron to scare people of Omicron. That's a distortion if he died from Delta or something else.
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... Politicians and scientists in particular have to be honest and forthright instead of often playing politics with the whole thing.
Even if I were to accept your outlandish interpretation of that story, how do you go from not being happy with CNN's reporting to "Politicians and scientists in particular have to be honest and forthright instead of often playing politics... " It's a non-sequitur at best.
Besides, the issue of trying to acquire "natural immunity" by getting the infection has been dealt with before. It's wrong-headed and dangerous. How can anyone be so stupid as to believe that a thusly acquired infection would protect them forever? If vaccinations don't work 100% of the time, why would anyone think that an immunity acquired by being infected would work any better? What would they then have to do, get infected again in 6 months as a "booster". It is a spectacular failure of modern culture that such superstitions and witch doctor-like beliefs emerge as credible.
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I agree that many people are making foolish decisions based on political leanings aggravated by misinformation.
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The government and science winked at the public telling us in the beginning that it didn't matter which vaccine you took. That wasn't true. Another fib by them. The results now match the same order of effectiveness found during their trials a year ago. Moderna, Pfizer, and J&J.
Interesting, what turned out to be best against Delta is if you had both the vaccine and caught the disease previously which doesn't seem very good to me since you caught the disease. How that's better I'm not sure.
One chart shows people vaccinated with Moderna had the best protection against COVID-19 in 2021
New data released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Wednesday suggests a clear hierarchy among the three vaccines in use in the US — at least against the Delta variant.
In a study of more than 1.1 million adults conducted from May to November in New York and California, Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine provided the most robust protection against Delta infections, Pfizer's came in second best, and Johnson & Johnson's trailed both of them. The new CDC study reinforces nationwide hospital data released last year.
But the very best immune protection against a COVID-19 infection against Delta came in the form of what's called hybrid immunity, a blend of prior infection and vaccination. That was true regardless of which vaccine a person had received.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/one-chart-shows-people-vaccinated-133743679.html
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I agree that many people are making foolish decisions based on political leanings aggravated by misinformation.
Apology accepted.
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Just watched the video discussion between Dr. Dean Ornish and Rip Esselstyn about not so well known benefits of plant-based diet.
Dr. Ornish is well known doctor (he was Bill Clinton's doctor and also health advisor to Obamas). In this video he talks about reversing diabetes and heart disease, lengthening of telomeres and preventing prostate cancer and even Alzheimer.
He also quotes several studies which documented that people on plant-based diet handled covid-19, including omicron variant better than others on the regular diet.
The first study done by the British Medical Journal on 3,000 frontline health workers who were taking care of covid-19 patients, found out that workers on plant-based diet were 73% less likely to develop moderate to severe illness, people on pescatarian diet 59% less likely and people on Atkins/Keto diet were 400% more likely to get moderate to severe illness.
He also mentioned another experiment in film Game Changers where the doctors gave a single meat-based meal to three men and another plant-based meal to other three men. They found out that the men who consumed the plant-based meal had in their sleep more frequent and harder erections. The entire film crew went on plant-based diet after filming that scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EORES18qDqM
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKmIxkBxtGg&t
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Just watched the video discussion between Dr. Dean Ornish and Rip Esselstyn about not so well known benefits of plant-based diet.
Plant-based? Every food we eat is plant-based, from your broccoli and tofu to beefsteaks, chicken wings, and oysters. What's wrong with "vegetarian?"
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I'm not the only one complaining that scientists and the government have confused people about Covid with their conflicting statements. Even Time Magazine, a liberal outlet, concludes similarly. Naturally, you're going to get some people who refuse to go along or just don't understand what the "right" thing is to do.
How the Biden Administration Lost Its Way
...The Administration vowed to let scientists lead the way, but the result has been a confounding lack of coordination. The heads of the CDC, National Institutes of Health, Food and Drug Administration and the President’s COVID-19 task force have made conflicting statements on everything from boosters to quarantines, leaving the public befuddled and anxious. “I would argue that the American people have less trust in federal health officials now than a year ago,” says Dr. Leana Wen, a public health professor at George Washington University. In a CBS News poll released Jan. 16, two-thirds of Americans said the U.S. COVID-19 response was going badly.
https://time.com/6140442/joe-biden-presidency-second-year/
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Plant-based? Every food we eat is plant-based, from your broccoli and tofu to beefsteaks, chicken wings, and oysters. What's wrong with "vegetarian?"
Technically, a vegetarian is a person whose diet consists of vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, and sometimes eggs or dairy products.
Plant-based diet avoids the latter two kinds. Some people refer to it as eating only things which don't have a face or mother.
A balanced diet, including primarily plants, and a little bit of dairy, eggs, fish and occasional organic meat yields also better results than the SAD (Standard American Diet).
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Good news. I think I'll plan a vacation for March. I'd love to go now as it's 14 degrees F right now, but it's too soon for safety.
Is COVID retreating in the U.S.? Data paints encouraging scenario
NEW YORK, Jan 21 (Reuters) - New coronavirus cases are falling in parts of the United States hit hardest by the fast-spreading Omicron variant, according to a Reuters analysis of public health data, offering an early indication the virus might once again be in retreat.
COVID-19 infections have decreased in 19 states plus Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico, an analysis of the past week through Thursday compared with the prior week showed.
In the Northeast, which saw some of the highest case loads during the latest surge, infections are down 40% week-over-week.
"Certainly it bodes well for us in terms of the trajectory of Omicron," said Wafaa El-Sadr, a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Columbia University in New York City.
The drop was more modest at the national level, with new reported COVID-19 cases down 7% during the same time period, according to the Reuters tally, as Omicron surges in some other parts of the country.
https://www.reuters.com/world/the-great-reboot/is-covid-retreating-us-data-paints-encouraging-scenario-2022-01-21/
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Many are claiming we should follow the science. There's no science in guessing about what he died from. The article seems like clickbait.
She died of Covid. Who gives a rats ass what strain it was. She foolishly self infected from her family thinking it was no more than a cold with the idea that she can then go to restaurants and theaters after she recovered. That is the message of this story...don't underestimate Covid.
As far as what strain it is...really doesn't matter. With Delta the US was dying at a rate between 1000 and 2000 a day and it still continues with the Omicron strain.
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She died of Covid. Who gives a rats ass what strain it was. She foolishly self infected from her family thinking it was no more than a cold with the idea that she can then go to restaurants and theaters after she recovered. That is the message of this story...don't underestimate Covid.
As far as what strain it is...really doesn't matter. With Delta the US was dying at a rate between 1000 and 2000 a day and it still continues with the Omicron strain.
The article was apparently trying to prove that Omicron is very dangerous by repeating the word Omicron about seven times. They were setting up the reader to believe this woman died from it. Yet, they never reported that she actually died from Omicron. In fact, the only person who claimed what she died from was her son, nor did he claim it was Omicron? He just claimed it was Covid which means it could have been the more dangerous variant of Delta. In any case, was he a doctor? Did he test his mom? How does he know what she died from? Fake news to scare us about Omicron. If I claimed this, you guys would be all over me for assuming stuff.
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As far as what strain it is...really doesn't matter. With Delta the US was dying at a rate between 1000 and 2000 a day and it still continues with the Omicron strain.
Yes, the death count right now is actually higher than last year - almost 3,000 deaths in US and 212 in Canada yesterday and today's counts may be similar.
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The article was apparently trying to prove that Omicron is very dangerous by repeating the word Omicron about seven times. They were setting up the reader to believe this woman died from it. Yet, they never reported that she actually died from Omicron. In fact, the only person who claimed what she died from was her son, nor did he claim it was Omicron? He just claimed it was Covid which means it could have been the more dangerous variant of Delta. In any case, was he a doctor? Did he test his mom? How does he know what she died from? Fake news to scare us about Omicron. If I claimed this, you guys would be all over me for assuming stuff.
Why does it matter so much to you what strain it was. You have about the same chance of dying today as you had a year ago...same number of people are dying from Covid. Sure the Delta strain was more deadly...but it's spread was much less. The Omicon seems less deadly but it's spread is much greater. The end result is the same...just as many people are dying.
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Why does it matter so much to you what strain it was. You have about the same chance of dying today as you had a year ago...same number of people are dying from Covid. Sure the Delta strain was more deadly...but it's spread was much less. The Omicon seems less deadly but it's spread is much greater. The end result is the same...just as many people are dying.
How do you know the woman died of Covid? The reporter never checked with the attending physician, never checked with the hospital, and never checked the death certificate. In fact, the reporter never stated what the woman died from. Like I said, the article was clickbait. It certainly wasn't journalism.
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How do you know the woman died of Covid? The reporter never checked with the attending physician, never checked with the hospital, and never checked the death certificate. In fact, the reporter never stated what the woman died from. Like I said, the article was clickbait. It certainly wasn't journalism.
Alan, you believe what you want. Go ahead and hang with a bunch of infected people and let us all know how that turns out. After all, you won’t believe anyone else.
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Alan, you believe what you want. Go ahead and hang with a bunch of infected people and let us all know how that turns out. After all, you won’t believe anyone else.
I never said I didn't respect Omicron. I said the article is fake news, click bait trying to sell to advertisers.
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On the light side. A little story about masks.
A fleeing Taliban terrorist, desperate for water, was plodding through the Afghan desert when he saw something far off in the distance.
Hoping to find water, he hurried toward the mirage, only to find a very frail little old man standing at a small makeshift display rack - selling masks.
The Taliban terrorist asked, "Do you have water?"
The old man replied, "I have no water. Would you like to buy a mask? They are only $5."
The Taliban shouted hysterically, "Idiot Infidel! I do not need such an over-priced western adornment. I spit on your masks. I need water!
"Sorry, I have none, just masks - and only $5."
"Pahh! A curse on your masks! I should wrap one around your scrawny little neck and choke the life out of you but . . . I must conserve my energy and find water!"
"Okay," said the little old man. "It does not matter that you do not want to buy a mask from me, or that you hate me, threaten my life, and call me infidel. I will show you that I am bigger than any of that. If you continue over that hill to the east for about two miles, you will find a restaurant. It has the finest food and all the ice-cold water you need. Go In Peace."
Cursing him again, the desperate Taliban staggered away, over the hill.
Several hours later, he crawled back, almost dead, and gasped, "They won't let me in without a mask!
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So yesterday morning I got sick for the first time in two years. Sneezing, congestion, and eyes tearing. Worried that it was Covid, I slept in a different room from my wife and tried to isolate myself. This morning I decided to take the in-house Covid test we had ordered previously where you send out to the lab and get a full medical test on it and get the results back in two or three days. Unfortunately, for some reason, the testing organization didn't accept the serial number on it so I couldn't do it. You have to connect with them on Zoom to do the test.
So my wife went out to a nearby pharmacy and got the instant test that's supposedly 94% accurate if you have it and 98% accurate if it comes up negative. It came in a two-test packet for US$36. I did it as she did as well and we both came up negative. So I guess I just have a cold. She's still staying away from me and making me sleep in the other room. :)
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I never said I didn't respect Omicron. I said the article is fake news, click bait trying to sell to advertisers.
Exactly what makes this fake news? The son says his mom died from Covid and that is what was reported on by at least 5 different new agencies. What makes you think someone is lying here? I don't get your logic.
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So my wife went out to a nearby pharmacy and got the instant test that's supposedly 94% accurate if you have it and 98% accurate if it comes up negative. It came in a two-test packet for US$36. I did it as she did as well and we both came up negative. So I guess I just have a cold. She's still staying away from me and making me sleep in the other room.
She is doing the smart thing. I wouldn't put much trust in negative results from antigen tests (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1233984#msg1233984).
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Exactly what makes this fake news? The son says his mom died from Covid and that is what was reported on by at least 5 different new agencies. What makes you think someone is lying here? I don't get your logic.
The article repeated the word Omicron about seven times although no one, not even the son, said she died from Omicron. The reporter seems too anxious to associate Omicron with the death of the mom. It's as if he trying to show how dangerous Omicron is. Well, it might be. But since we don't know if the woman died from it, it seems like he was trying to make a case that doesn't exist. The whole thing smells like a setup. It's not journalism but political reporting. It's like watching CNN or Fox.
By the way, it doesn't matter if 50 reports said the same thing. One news reporter often repeats what others report. Often they're bylines where a newspaper buys the article from another newspaper because they don't have the staff of reporters the first has.
In any case, the journalist has to be responsible for his article and what he knows because he's reporting in his article. If he's using another reporter's research or article, he has a responsibility to report in the article such as, "...the NY Times reports that the mom died of Omicron." He never did that so he takes full responsibility for his report. That's how journalism is supposed to work.
Unfortunately today, too many reporters think they're social scientists and can report what they feel or believe. That's why we have so much fake news.
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She is doing the smart thing. I wouldn't put much trust in negative results from antigen tests (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1233984#msg1233984).
Chris, I checked it on the web to get the 94% and 98%. After your post, I looked it up in the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) report. They also reported that my instant test was 94% accurate if it showed positive and 98% accurate of reported as negative. So what should I believe? Your point confirms my previous argument that you can't trust anything even and maybe especially the so-called science by government. This was the complaint of the medical community. That nothing is accurate, that nothing can be trusted. So what is the average person supposed to do?
Here is the FDA sheet on my test. It says in the Clinical Section:
Positive Agreement: (33/35) 94.3%; 95% Confidence Interval: 81.4% to 98.4%
Negative Agreement: (102/104) 98.1%; 95% Confidence Interval: 93.3% to 99.5%
https://www.fda.gov/media/153923/download#:~:text=The%20iHealth%C2%AE%20COVID%2D19%20Antigen%20Rapid%20Test%20when%20conducted,identified%2098.1%25%20of%20negative%20samples.
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PS My wife is staying away from me because it seems I have a bad cold. ;)
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PS My wife is staying away from me because it seems I have a bad cold. ;)
No other reason?
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The article repeated the word Omicron about seven times although no one, not even the son, said she died from Omicron. The reporter seems too anxious to associate Omicron with the death of the mom. It's as if he trying to show how dangerous Omicron is. Well, it might be. But since we don't know if the woman died from it, it seems like he was trying to make a case that doesn't exist. The whole thing smells like a setup. It's not journalism but political reporting. It's like watching CNN or Fox.
By the way, it doesn't matter if 50 reports said the same thing. One news reporter often repeats what others report. Often they're bylines where a newspaper buys the article from another newspaper because they don't have the staff of reporters the first has.
In any case, the journalist has to be responsible for his article and what he knows because he's reporting in his article. If he's using another reporter's research or article, he has a responsibility to report in the article such as, "...the NY Times reports that the mom died of Omicron." He never did that so he takes full responsibility for his report. That's how journalism is supposed to work.
Unfortunately today, too many reporters think they're social scientists and can report what they feel or believe. That's why we have so much fake news.
How the hell are you so sure what the son said? You believe so much BS without any facts yet you are hung up on this? Really Alan...after all the fake news these last few years you tied into and believed and now you are hung up on this? Come on.
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So what should I believe?
You may want to read the dosing instructions at the link you posted again, this time more carefully:
A negative result means that viral antigens from COVID-19 were not detected and that the individual is presumed negative for COVID-19.
- Please note that negative results do not rule out COVID-19.
- In case of negative test result: Continue to follow all social distancing recommendations and take protective measures. If suspicions of infection persist and/or your first test is negative, repeat the test after 1-2 days and consult your healthcare provider or local COVID-19 center.
- Note: A negative result is presumptive and confirmation with a molecular assay, if necessary, for patient management may be performed.
As I said in my earlier post, (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1233984#msg1233984) I wouldn't put much trust in a negative result from an antigen test. As far as I have been able to determine, only a negative result from a molecular test (and preferably a couple of them, taken perhaps 24-36 hours apart) confers reasonable assurance that you have not been infected.
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How the hell are you so sure what the son said? You believe so much BS without any facts yet you are hung up on this? Really Alan...after all the fake news these last few years you tied into and believed and now you are hung up on this? Come on.
I am reporting what the article said he said.
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You may want to read the dosing instructions at the link you posted again, this time more carefully:
As I said in my earlier post, (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1233984#msg1233984) I wouldn't put much trust in a negative result from an antigen test. As far as I have been able to determine, only a negative result from a molecular test (and preferably a couple of them, taken perhaps 24-36 hours apart) confers reasonable assurance that you have not been infected.
If the tests are so inaccurate why does the government say my negative result is 98% accurate?Why is Biden wasting his time ordering 500 million tests? Do you see why the average person questions if the government knows what it is doing and the advice it's giving?
In any case, I feel like I have a regular cold. I'm feeling a little better and other typical Covid symptoms haven't occurred. Hopefully that's all it is.
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i'm sure that disappoints some people here ;)
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Antigen tests give a reasonable indication if you are infectious to others. A figure I have seen recently in the UK suggests that they will pick up about 80% of folk who are infectious. What they do not do is give a reliable indication if you have the virus. For that the PCR is the gold standard. So lateral flow tests are useful but by no means reliable seems the best description. I have noticed that all the lateral flow tests I have used in the UK have been made in China. Is that the case in the States?
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Antigen tests give a reasonable indication if you are infectious to others. A figure I have seen recently in the UK suggests that they will pick up about 80% of folk who are infectious. What they do not do is give a reliable indication if you have the virus. For that the PCR is the gold standard. So lateral flow tests are useful but by no means reliable seems the best description. I have noticed that all the lateral flow tests I have used in the UK have been made in China. Is that the case in the States?
The "instant" test I took from iHealth is an Antigen Rapid Test with the strip that has one or two lines that appear after taking a nose swab sample. It says that if you come up negative, you should take at least another test. So I'll have my wife pick up another two test box at the pharmacy. This test was made in China.
I have another test that I received a couple of weeks ago. It's where you send the saliva sample back for processing to their lab that takes 2-3 days for results. That's the one that does a Zoom meeting to take you through the test. Unfortunately, their website did not take the serial number from the kit and would not proceed. I tried contacting them but they haven't returned my call or email. That's very disappointing. That's why I took the iHealth instant test as a backup. The company handling the processing is called Vault Health. But the test is actually made by Spectrum Solutions in Draper, Utah although the box says it was Made in Mexico. The test is named SDNA-1000. Here's the link. Is this a PCR test?
https://spectrumsolution.com/?s=sdna-1000
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Here's another link that explains the SDNA-1000 test as a PCR type.
https://spectrumsolution.com/sdna-1000-saliva-collection-kit-used-to-track-variants-and-successfully-detects-omicron/
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Biden agrees finally with the Supreme Court and will follow the law.
OSHA withdraws its workplace vaccine rule.
In pulling the rule, the Biden administration acknowledged what most businesses expected: the plan to make companies mandate vaccines-or-tests is over.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/25/business/osha-vaccine-mandate.html
Of course they're winking at the court and still moving to create a standard. Sounds like what people complained Trump did, but didn't.
"Although OSHA is withdrawing the vaccination and testing ETS as an enforceable emergency temporary standard, the agency is not withdrawing the ETS as a proposed rule. The agency is prioritizing its resources to focus on finalizing a permanent COVID-19 Healthcare Standard," the statement read.
The withdrawal of the emergency temporary standard "does not affect the ETS's continuing status as a proposed rule," a US Department of Labor spokesperson told CNN in a statement.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/25/politics/vaccine-mandate-osha-withdrawn/index.html
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As some of this thread has touched on Covid tests, thought I would offer:
Just prior to Christmas, and after booking flights for three (son, d-i-l, granddaughter) from Denver to Seattle, the three visited a local pharmacy and took PCR tests (required as they were driving from Seattle across the border to Canada). The day before the flight (leaving at 7 am the next morning), the test results came back and son, g'daughter were negative while d-i-l was positive. She took a home test to confirm, which came back negative. Due to the disparity in the results and that all three were living together and in close contact, and the other two were negative, she attempted to arrange a second PCR, but only appointment was after the morning flight left, so flights cancelled.
Next morning, she took the second PCR test, results were expedited, and it came back negative. She was advised by the lab staff, that PCR tests give false positives 1 in 1000 times.
As no chance of arranging a new, inexpensive, flight to Seattle (the 24th), I bit the bullet and booked all three direct to Vancouver. Funny enough, upon arrival at YVR and while going through customs, the g'daughter (9 yrs old) was secondary'd for the purpose of a "random" Covid test (even though proof of negative tests were provided). As a result, all three took a test. All were negative.
So, the false positive result cost me $2000, compared to the $250 it was going to cost for the initial flights. Yay.
Marv
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As some of this thread has touched on Covid tests, thought I would offer:
Just prior to Christmas, and after booking flights for three (son, d-i-l, granddaughter) from Denver to Seattle, the three visited a local pharmacy and took PCR tests (required as they were driving from Seattle across the border to Canada). The day before the flight (leaving at 7 am the next morning), the test results came back and son, g'daughter were negative while d-i-l was positive. She took a home test to confirm, which came back negative. Due to the disparity in the results and that all three were living together and in close contact, and the other two were negative, she attempted to arrange a second PCR, but only appointment was after the morning flight left, so flights cancelled.
Next morning, she took the second PCR test, results were expedited, and it came back negative. She was advised by the lab staff, that PCR tests give false positives 1 in 1000 times.
As no chance of arranging a new, inexpensive, flight to Seattle (the 24th), I bit the bullet and booked all three direct to Vancouver. Funny enough, upon arrival at YVR and while going through customs, the g'daughter (9 yrs old) was secondary'd for the purpose of a "random" Covid test (even though proof of negative tests were provided). As a result, all three took a test. All were negative.
So, the false positive result cost me $2000, compared to the $250 it was going to cost for the initial flights. Yay.
Marv
Canadian government recommends not to travel internationally right now. I guess one takes their chances and pays for these chances.
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COVID-19 infections have decreased in 19 states plus Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico, an analysis of the past week through Thursday compared with the prior week showed.
In the Northeast, which saw some of the highest case loads during the latest surge, infections are down 40% week-over-week.
"Certainly it bodes well for us in terms of the trajectory of Omicron," said Wafaa El-Sadr, a professor of epidemiology and medicine at Columbia University in New York City.
The drop was more modest at the national level, with new reported COVID-19 cases down 7% during the same time period, according to the Reuters tally, as Omicron surges in some other parts of the country.
Something must have changed. Yesterday, US had over 500K infections and over 3K deaths. In Canada we had 226 deaths which is also a higher number than in preceding months.
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The "instant" test I took from iHealth is an Antigen Rapid Test with the strip that has one or two lines that appear after taking a nose swab sample. It says that if you come up negative, you should take at least another test. So I'll have my wife pick up another two test box at the pharmacy. This test was made in China.
I have another test that I received a couple of weeks ago. It's where you send the saliva sample back for processing to their lab that takes 2-3 days for results. That's the one that does a Zoom meeting to take you through the test. Unfortunately, their website did not take the serial number from the kit and would not proceed. I tried contacting them but they haven't returned my call or email. That's very disappointing. That's why I took the iHealth instant test as a backup. The company handling the processing is called Vault Health. But the test is actually made by Spectrum Solutions in Draper, Utah although the box says it was Made in Mexico. The test is named SDNA-1000. Here's the link. Is this a PCR test?
https://spectrumsolution.com/?s=sdna-1000
So I finally got it all straightened out. For some reason, iHealth had a hold on the serial numbers for both PCR tests. They cleared it and I did a Zoom meeting for the collection which has gone out to them by UPS yesterday. It takes 2-3 days for the result. Since I'm feeling a lot better, I figured I just had a cold, my first in two years, especially since the quick test was negative. It still could have been Omicrom as many report no more than a cold.
In any case, while trying to clear up the serial number problem, I spoke to the manufacturer of the PCR test in Utah, the Director of Marketing and Brand who coincidentally came down with Covid recently which left her with an ear infection that had to be cleared up with regular antibiotics. They test their staff every two days.
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Sometimes I think I'm watching an episode of the Twilight Zone, https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/591519-desantis-leans-into-covid-19-treatment-fight-amid-2024-chatter (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/591519-desantis-leans-into-covid-19-treatment-fight-amid-2024-chatter).
Why is DeSantis so invested in monoclonal treatments? Surely medical treatments are the purview of people who know about these things, they're not political decisions. I find it so difficult to believe that people would look to a politician for guidance about their health over that of their doctor. This is spectacular dysfunction. This is the kind of thing you see in cults.
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Something must have changed. Yesterday, US had over 500K infections and over 3K deaths. In Canada we had 226 deaths which is also a higher number than in preceding months.
The timing is just a few weeks after Christmas. Maybe if enough people ignored social distancing guidelines during the holiday season it would have the effect of people dying right about now. It's all so predictable.
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Something must have changed. Yesterday, US had over 500K infections and over 3K deaths. In Canada we had 226 deaths which is also a higher number than in preceding months.
Deaths seem to be going up but cases are going down. Cases in NJ went from 32,000 Jan 10th to around 5000, a substantial decrease which bodes well. Deaths went up from 60 to 111 since Jan 10th (both trends are 7 day moving avgs.) It seems deaths follow cases by a couple of weeks.
For the USA in total cases went from 755K down to 627K and deaths from 1700 up to 2200.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailycases
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Sometimes I think I'm watching an episode of the Twilight Zone, https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/591519-desantis-leans-into-covid-19-treatment-fight-amid-2024-chatter (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/591519-desantis-leans-into-covid-19-treatment-fight-amid-2024-chatter).
Why is DeSantis so invested in monoclonal treatments? Surely medical treatments are the purview of people who know about these things, they're not political decisions. I find it so difficult to believe that people would look to a politician for guidance about their health over that of their doctor. This is spectacular dysfunction. This is the kind of thing you see in cults.
That's strange. Many Republicans think Democrats have been acting like they're in a cult. TDS is a Democrat affliction. ;)
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That's strange. Many Republicans think Democrats have been acting like they're in a cult. TDS is a Democrat affliction. ;)
Ok, but why is DeSantis pushing untested medical interventions when proven better ones exist? I get it that Americans are in love with the myth of "rebels" but seriously now, who takes medical advice from politicians?
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Ok, but why is DeSantis pushing untested medical interventions when proven better ones exist? I get it that Americans are in love with the myth of "rebels" but seriously now, who takes medical advice from politicians?
He running a cult. ;) Anyway, Floridians are strange. I think it's all that sun. First, you get all those snowbirds who grew up in the northern climes in the bitter cold. Then they move to Florida to warm up and the heat gets to them. My father and sister moved there in retirement. My wife refuses to go preferring the snows of NJ.
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He running a cult. ;) Anyway, Floridians are strange. I think it's all that sun. First, you get all those snowbirds who grew up in the northern climes in the bitter cold. Then they move to Florida to warm up and the heat gets to them. My father and sister moved there in retirement. My wife refuses to go preferring the snows of NJ.
Why stop at Florida. I keep going into Mexico. Heading to Sayulita at the end of February. Better culture...better food.
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So I finally got it all straightened out. For some reason, iHealth had a hold on the serial numbers for both PCR tests. They cleared it and I did a Zoom meeting for the collection which has gone out to them by UPS yesterday. It takes 2-3 days for the result. Since I'm feeling a lot better, I figured I just had a cold, my first in two years, especially since the quick test was negative. It still could have been Omicrom as many report no more than a cold.
In any case, while trying to clear up the serial number problem, I spoke to the manufacturer of the PCR test in Utah, the Director of Marketing and Brand who coincidentally came down with Covid recently which left her with an ear infection that had to be cleared up with regular antibiotics. They test their staff every two days.
Well my PCR is negative. So i just had a cold. I'm impressed with the test turnaround time. Less than 14 goes from the time UPS picked it up in my town until I got an email fron the lab. They received it about 7 hours earlier.
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It was a bad week in the US for Covid according to Worldometer. The 7-day moving average of daily deaths finished the week at well over 2000 deaths per day, with one single day getting above 3000 and two others at around 2700 or so. Total since the start is over 900,000 now, which could hit one million by end of February or March, about the 2 year mark, although I'm not sure when is considered the start. So that's close to 500,000 per year. I wonder what that number would have been without masks, distancing or vaccines.
I caught a glimpse of some NFL playoff games, and people in the stands weren't distanced or wearing masks, so it looks like some people are behaving as if the worst is over, which seems premature to me, especially considering the death data. But the people in the stands weren't dead, so that's ok then.
Here in Canada, public health is now saying that the Omicron infection has peaked in most of the country. I hope that's correct. The 7-day moving average of deaths still seems to be climbing though, the lag effect I assume. We're at about 160 deaths per day.
Many epidemiologists were saying at the start of Covid to expect about 4 years of waves, if history is a guide. That won't be far wrong. If I remember correctly, I think they said that deaths in the last 2 years would decrease a lot, before the infection becomes "endemic". Lucky for us all those researchers were beavering away in their labs in the last few decades, because without vaccines life would be a lot more difficult. But neither they nor the public health doctors will get any credit except in a few books.
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Well my PCR is negative. So i just had a cold. I'm impressed with the test turnaround time. Less than 14 26 hours from the time UPS picked it up in my town until I got an email fron the lab. They received it about 7 hours earlier.
It was 26 hours not 14, still pretty good turnaround time.
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It was a bad week in the US for Covid according to Worldometer. The 7-day moving average of daily deaths finished the week at well over 2000 deaths per day, with one single day getting above 3000 and two others at around 2700 or so. Total since the start is over 900,000 now, which could hit one million by end of February or March, about the 2 year mark, although I'm not sure when is considered the start. So that's close to 500,000 per year. I wonder what that number would have been without masks, distancing or vaccines.
I caught a glimpse of some NFL playoff games, and people in the stands weren't distanced or wearing masks, so it looks like some people are behaving as if the worst is over, which seems premature to me, especially considering the death data. But the people in the stands weren't dead, so that's ok then.
Here in Canada, public health is now saying that the Omicron infection has peaked in most of the country. I hope that's correct. The 7-day moving average of deaths still seems to be climbing though, the lag effect I assume. We're at about 160 deaths per day.
Many epidemiologists were saying at the start of Covid to expect about 4 years of waves, if history is a guide. That won't be far wrong. If I remember correctly, I think they said that deaths in the last 2 years would decrease a lot, before the infection becomes "endemic". Lucky for us all those researchers were beavering away in their labs in the last few decades, because without vaccines life would be a lot more difficult. But neither they nor the public health doctors will get any credit except in a few books.
We wouldn't have had Covid if they weren't "beavering" away in their labs.
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We wouldn't have had Covid if they weren't "beavering" away in their labs.
What a spectacularly ignorant statement.
But besides that, I thought you were in favour of vaccines. Are you actually against them "politically" but only took them because they work? Must be difficult to want to preserve your health while at the same time wanting to tow the crazy-"right" line. I noticed that lately you have actually said some negative things about Trump. Are you upset that he is too pro-vaccine, worried it might dilute the vote? Must be one hell of a dilemma. Tell us, do you secretly admire those clowns on their Covid death beds who continue to "tweet" about how it was all a hoax or how most people in hospital are there because of vaccines and not the virus. Must be a torment.
You could at least try to be consistent.
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What a spectacularly ignorant statement.
But besides that, I thought you were in favour of vaccines. Are you actually against them "politically" but only took them because they work? Must be difficult to want to preserve your health while at the same time wanting to tow the crazy-"right" line. I noticed that lately you have actually said some negative things about Trump. Are you upset that he is too pro-vaccine, worried it might dilute the vote? Must be one hell of a dilemma. Tell us, do you secretly admire those clowns on their Covid death beds who continue to "tweet" about how it was all a hoax or how most people in hospital are there because of vaccines and not the virus. Must be a torment.
You could at least try to be consistent.
Your constant inaccuracies about my beliefs are as astounding as your insults. Your views of people who disagree with you are distorted. They're caricatures.
I'm for vaccines and feel everyone should take them. I've said that over and over. However, I believe that individual decisions go into what people want to do, especially since no one has a complete handle on what are the correct procedures. Add to that the economic effect, and people have made various decisions about what to do in all areas not just vaccines. Lumping everyone together as you and others here do shows limited thinking on your part, a need to call the shots for the whole world. Only you have the answers.
But we're discussing something else too. Is it necessary to develop new strains of virus-like Covid-19 that can kill millions of people if it escaped from the lab which it did? We should re-examine just how far research should go. I believe we shot ourselves in the foot, or China did, or maybe we both did. There's some discussion that America paid for some of that research in Wuhan. Why are we developing strains that are so dangerous? It seems very foolhardy to me.
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Is it necessary to develop new strains of virus-like Covid-19 that can kill millions of people if it escaped from the lab which it did?
Alan, that is precisely what Robert called it: "A spectacularly ignorant statement"
You have precisely zero knowledge of the origins of Covid. You are not a medical professional. You're a guy with a computer in New Jersey.
As well as ignorant, your statement qualifies as intentional, dangerous and divisive disinformation.
You are the problem.
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TDS is a Democrat affliction. ;)
TDS is a Trump affliction.
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Alan, that is precisely what Robert called it: "A spectacularly ignorant statement"
You have precisely zero knowledge of the origins of Covid. You are not a medical professional. You're a guy with a computer in New Jersey.
As well as ignorant, your statement qualifies as intentional, dangerous and divisive disinformation.
You are the problem.
You insulting again. It's tiring. Your only response is to call me names. Ignoring the origin just set's us up again for another similar outbreak with another virus.
Many experts have said that the Covid could have come from a lab. Remember that the first case was in Wuhan. Wuhan has a lab that was working on viruses. Duh! Were the Chinese working on Covid and it escaped? Could the virus have been transmitted from collection efforts of bats hundreds of miles away and taken to the lab, even unknowingly? It may not have been worked on, but spread naturally to one of the researchers who spread it outside the lab. Either way, China is responsible and will never admit they had anything to do with it due to liability reasons. Can you imagine the lawsuits against them?
China's hiding the facts. How could you believe them? They lied about the disease for weeks possibly months. So now we should believe them when they say nothing came from the lab? Meanwhile, they refused access of the kind necessary to do a full accounting by outside investigators.
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... especially since no one has a complete handle on what are the correct procedures.
Please stop repeating this nonsense. Except for changes along the way as new info emerged, the procedures were always clear to me and to everyone I know.
... Is it necessary to develop new strains of virus-like Covid-19 that can kill millions of people if it escaped from the lab which it did? We should re-examine just how far research should go. I believe we shot ourselves in the foot, or China did, or maybe we both did. There's some discussion that America paid for some of that research in Wuhan. Why are we developing strains that are so dangerous? It seems very foolhardy to me.
My advice is to unsubscribe from conspiracy theory feeds.
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Please stop repeating this nonsense. Except for changes along the way as new info emerged, the procedures were always clear to me and to everyone I know.
My advice is to unsubscribe from conspiracy theory feeds.
Many of the procedures didn't take into account effects on people's jobs and the economy. When you added them to the formula, you come up with different procedures and solutions. It's why every day now, many governmental procedures keep varying depending where you live. One day, open the restaurant, next day close them again. You can't say there is a set procedure for any of this. It's just that you think there should be. But even Democratic officials disagree with you now and are adjusting the science to economic issues.
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You insulting again. It's tiring. Your only response is to call me names.
Then quit spreading dangerous disinformation. You have no idea where covid came from.
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Then quit spreading dangerous disinformation. You have no idea where covid came from.
And you do?
What's dangerous about accusing the Chinese of hiding the real cause of it after they lied about its existence? Even if it did occur naturally, they continued to allow their infected people to travel to Europe and the US spreading their disease around the world and killing 8 million people. Why are you protecting them? Don't you think they should have let the investigation team in there to their lab in Wuhan to find out where it came from? They did a huge coverup and you're worried about me spreading supposed misinformation. That's bizarre.
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I miss the National Enquirer and alien abductions.
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And you do?
No, I don't. (know where covid came from) And I don't claim to, either. Unlike you.
Jumping to conclusions that, because I don't support your spurious claim, I support the Chinese is yet another telling symptom of your vapidity.
I suggest a night school course in logic, argument and debate.
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No, I don't. (know where covid came from) And I don't claim to, either. Unlike you.
Jumping to conclusions that, because I don't support your spurious claim, I support the Chinese is yet another telling symptom of your vapidity.
I suggest a night school course in logic, argument and debate.
You seem to have concluded it didn't come from a lab. Yet, where's your proof? You take it for granted. Yet, China refused to allow investigators to investigate? They hid the virus from the world for weeks. The virus started in the same town where the lab was working on viruses in a huge country with 1 1/2 billion people. Yet, coincidentally, it started a couple of miles from the lab. None of that disturbs you? You don't see a smoking gun? You claim my claim is spurious but don't see how spurious and illogical your claim is?
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You seem to have concluded it didn't come from a lab. Yet, where's your proof? You take it for granted.
I may "seem" to have concluded something to you, Alan, but you'd be wrong.
Like you, I have no proof of the origins of covid. Unlike you, I don't profess such knowledge.
You claim my claim is spurious but don't see how spurious and illogical your claim is?
No, I don't. I made no claim other than my ignorance of covid's origin.
You continue to attempt to put words in others' mouths. It's stupid.
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Many experts have said that the Covid could have come from a lab.
And you choose to believe these experts since they line up with your bias...but totally disregard other experts on other topics because they don't fit your agenda. Seems about par for the course.
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And you choose to believe these experts since they line up with your bias...but totally disregard other experts on other topics because they don't fit your agenda. Seems about par for the course.
And your opinion is it didn't come from the lab and my opinion is it did. How is mine more biased than yours? You have your belief and I have mine.
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BBC reports that the controversial claim that the pandemic might have leaked from a Chinese laboratory - once dismissed by many as a fringe conspiracy theory - has been gaining traction.
Dr Fauci now says he's "not convinced" the virus originated naturally. That's a shift from a year ago, when he thought it most likely Covid had spread from animals to humans.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57268111
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And your opinion is it didn't come from the lab and my opinion is it did. How is mine more biased than yours? You have your belief and I have mine.
You are the one that continually goes on a tirade claiming experts cannot be trusted nor believed because they all have different agendas. Now you somehow believe these experts...when they line up with your bias. Why is that Alan? Why do you blast experts when you don't agree with their findings...yet your trust experts when they agree with you?
For the record, I have no idea where the virus originated...I'm more concerned how we deal with it.
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You are the one that continually goes on a tirade claiming experts cannot be trusted nor believed because they all have different agendas. Now you somehow believe these experts...when they line up with your bias. Why is that Alan? Why do you blast experts when you don't agree with their findings...yet your trust experts when they agree with you?
For the record, I have no idea where the virus originated...I'm more concerned how we deal with it.
I'm not trusting experts. Many of them said it came from wild animals. I'm drawing my own conclusions. Wuhan had a virology lab. The first case was in Wuhan a few miles from the lab. The Chinese refused to allow an in-depth investigation of the lab. The Chinese hid the disease in the beginning. Case closed.
If you don't know how it started, how do you know how to deal with it in the future? If it came from animals, then you might address the issue to not eat certain wild animals. If it came from a lab by mistake, then you would tighten up on safety procedures and maybe stop working with such dangerous viruses and methods. Don't you think with the possibility of a lab error, we should be having hearings as to what our government is up to and how they handle these things? Almost a million people died just in America, over 8 million around the world, economies shattered, etc. Yet we still don't know where it came from and what we should do to protect ourselves in the future. How's that smart? Maybe Dr. Fauci could advise up when he's 104 in twenty years when the next one breaks out.
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Case closed.
It's a good thing Alan isn't a judge.
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It's a good thing Alan isn't a judge.
Forget about my opinion. Aren't you concerned that after more than two years, we still don't have a definitive answer how it started? No one seems to be talking about how to prevent it in the future. All we hear is about how some hew drugs may help when it hits, whether we should wear masks and who should get vaccinated. After 8 million dead, wouldn't prevention be better than a drug to keep it under control?
Is that the best we can do?
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Cases continue to decline in NYC from 43K to 5K in seven-day averages in January. Good news. Now if no new strains pop up, maybe we can get on to normalcy by the end of February.
NYC sees rapid decline in Covid-19 cases. Here are the latest figures.
The city's positivity rate Saturday was 4.83 percent, the lowest of any region in the state.
New York City is seeing a “rapid decline” in Covid-19 cases as it begins to emerge from the surge driven by the Omicron variant, Mayor Eric Adams announced Sunday.
But the latest wave has had a grim toll: More than 2,300 New Yorkers have died of the coronavirus in the month of January alone.
The city reported a seven-day average of 5,054 new virus cases in the latest stats, down from a high of over 43,000 in early January.
And the city's positivity rate Saturday was 4.83 percent, the lowest of any region in the state.
“All indicators are saying we’re heading in the right direction: a rapid decline in cases. They remain high, but they clearly are declining,” Adams said at a briefing at Jacobi Medical Center in the Bronx.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/30/nyc-covid-cases-decline-00003482
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Cases continue to decline in NYC from 43K to 5K in seven-day averages in January. Good news. Now if no new strains pop up, maybe we can get on to normalcy by the end of February.
Interesting! Same thing happened last year.
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Interesting! Same thing happened last year.
Let's hope there aren't new strains coming up. There seems to be a variant of Omicron that's even more contagious but about equal in illness. Not sure what this means though.
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Here are the latest viewpoints.
Covid Live Updates: U.S. Governors Say It’s Time to Learn to Live With the Virus as Omicron Recedes
A few state leaders said Sunday that while more variants and another surge are still possible, Omicron has brought the country closer to the endemic stage of the virus.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/31/world/omicron-covid-vaccine-tests
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It's a good thing Alan isn't a judge.
I hope he's never on a jury.
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Here are the latest viewpoints.
Covid Live Updates: U.S. Governors Say It’s Time to Learn to Live With the Virus as Omicron Recedes
A few state leaders said Sunday that while more variants and another surge are still possible, Omicron has brought the country closer to the endemic stage of the virus.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/31/world/omicron-covid-vaccine-tests
So what else it new. This is precisely the end game that all virologists and epidemiologists have been talking about since forever. This is what it has always been about, since 1918. Are you now pretending to claim that this is new information of which you were unaware?
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Was the virus made in a Wuhan lab? The answer is we don't know. Maybe maybe not. I have seen good papers arguing that it had all the hallmarks of a wild virus. I have also seen papers suggesting that the biosecurity at the Wuhan labs studying this group of viruses was poor. It is sometime ago that I read these and do not have the references quickly at hand. They were both from reliable scientific journals. I have also a read an innordiate amount of conspiracist nonsense about the virus. Separating that from good scientific evidence is essential. I have a rule which is not to use Youtube or any other video hosting sites as a source of science. The reliable medical and science journals are available on line. Youtube is great for videos of the arts and cute pictures of pets, potentially dangerous as a source of science and medical knowledge.
The truth is the virus is now endemic around the world. Hopefully it will not mutate back in to something as dangerous as the delta. Omicron because it is so infectious still remains a public health risk particularly in countries where there are low levels of vaccination and also a population vulnerable through malnutrition etc.
All we can do is take the sensible precautions and hope that new variants do not arise too rapidly that can escape the effects of the vaccine programmes. That new variants will arise is as certain as night follows day. This virus has given us all a powerful lesson in evolution.
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So what else it new. This is precisely the end game that all virologists and epidemiologists have been talking about since forever. This is what it has always been about, since 1918. Are you now pretending to claim that this is new information of which you were unaware?
This is new information. I've been the only one of a few here who said we're in the end game, (I predicted the end of February.) You weren't one of them. I'm just bringing you up to date that others in the public agree that we may be entering the endemic stage from a pandemic.
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Was the virus made in a Wuhan lab? The answer is we don't know. Maybe maybe not. I have seen good papers arguing that it had all the hallmarks of a wild virus. I have also seen papers suggesting that the biosecurity at the Wuhan labs studying this group of viruses was poor. It is sometime ago that I read these and do not have the references quickly at hand. They were both from reliable scientific journals. I have also a read an innordiate amount of conspiracist nonsense about the virus. Separating that from good scientific evidence is essential. I have a rule which is not to use Youtube or any other video hosting sites as a source of science. The reliable medical and science journals are available on line. Youtube is great for videos of the arts and cute pictures of pets, potentially dangerous as a source of science and medical knowledge.
The truth is the virus is now endemic around the world. Hopefully it will not mutate back in to something as dangerous as the delta. Omicron because it is so infectious still remains a public health risk particularly in countries where there are low levels of vaccination and also a population vulnerable through malnutrition etc.
All we can do is take the sensible precautions and hope that new variants do not arise too rapidly that can escape the effects of the vaccine programmes. That new variants will arise is as certain as night follows day. This virus has given us all a powerful lesson in evolution.
Since you read both sides, which side do you think the odds are on how it occurred? 50-50 60-40 70-30??
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This is new information. I've been the only one of a few here who said we're in the end game, (I predicted the end of February.) You weren't one of them. I'm just bringing you up to date that others in the public agree that we may be entering the endemic stage from a pandemic.
This is NOT new information, please stop the nonsense. And you are FAR from the first to find some reason for optimism recently. All I have said is, if you were paying attention, something you NEVER do, is that we're might be celebrating prematurely, especially so in the USA where your 7-day moving average of deaths is still in the 2000 range. Two thousands dead per day is not what the end looks like. Get a damn grip, would you.
The daily deaths won't decrease because of some magic in the ether, or because of your feelings, it will decrease if people keep doing what they should be doing, getting vaccinated, maintain distance, etc. The viruses don't become less deadly one day because they're tired or because they feel like it, it's because we maintain our defences.
It's becoming insufferable having to repeat the obvious to you every day. Try paying attention.
As for your predicting the end, what utter horse shit. You were talking about herd immunity in mid-2020. If you keep repeating it, then yeah, one day it would turn out to be true. And it will turn out to be true at about the third or fourth year, just about what every expert on earth was saying in spring 2020. And they were saying that in podcasts and articles that you were told about, except you never listened or read anything that was suggested to you.
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You're arguing it both ways.
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You're arguing it both ways.
I'm sure you think so. ;)
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Since you read both sides, which side do you think the odds are on how it occurred? 50-50 60-40 70-30??
Promoting random speculation on this topic is irresponsible and sophomoric.
<edit> And stupid.
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Promoting random speculation on this topic is irresponsible and sophomoric.
<edit> And stupid.
China killed 8 million people and you want to ignore it.
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China killed 8 million people and you want to ignore it.
Statements like that are irresponsible and sophomoric.
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Promoting random speculation on this topic is irresponsible and sophomoric.
<edit> And stupid.
Oh no, there was an outbreak of chocolate in Hershey, PA but surely it did not come from the factory! That would be an irresponsible and sophomoric assumption. It would be stupid to assume one of the world's leading chocolate makers caused an eruption of chocolate in its own town.
LOL
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Statements like that are irresponsible and sophomoric.
Dupont infected the world with PFOAs and PFOSs so much so that you have to go back to WWII blood banks to find blood without any of traces. Now, just in case you think the dangers of these chemicals were masked, they weren't. It was not uncommon for flocks of bird to just die en mass when flying over the factories that produced them, yet they just kept on making them.
In this comparison with these statement you would be the corporate apologist who insists that we got teflon out of the deal, so what's the point.
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Oh no, there was an outbreak of chocolate in Hershey, PA but surely it did not come from the factory! That would be an irresponsible and sophomoric assumption. It would be stupid to assume one of the world's leading chocolate makers caused an eruption of chocolate in its own town.
LOL
How do you feel about all of the stupid and irresponsible assumptions that you've made and posted in this forum regarding COVID-19 and the science and statistics connected to it?
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How do you feel about all of the stupid and irresponsible assumptions that you've made and posted in this forum regarding COVID-19 and the science and statistics connected to it?
Joe's viewpoints are wider than many here. He includes economic aspects that are often ignored. Health is only one aspect of Covid. We have to consider financial problems as well. These are ignored by most scientists. Also he raises the important issue of liberty, another issue ignored by scientists and others.
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Joe's viewpoints are wider than many here. He includes economic aspects that are often ignored. Health is only one aspect of Covid. We have to consider financial problems as well. These are ignored by most scientists. Also he raises the important issue of liberty, another issue ignored by scientists and others.
You're like a dog with a bone the way you keep insisting that others don't care about the economy or liberty.
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Joe's viewpoints are wider than many here. He includes economic aspects that are often ignored. Health is only one aspect of Covid. We have to consider financial problems as well. These are ignored by most scientists. Also he raises the important issue of liberty, another issue ignored by scientists and others.
Speaking about liberty. I know of one case where a family of 3 was not vaccinated, their little boy picked up the covid virus, then his grandma when she was babysitting was infected by him and brought it home to her husband. He is now in the hospital on ventilator and the situation is very grave.
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Speaking about liberty. I know of one case where a family of 3 was not vaccinated, their little boy picked up the covid virus, then his grandma when she was babysitting was infected by him and brought it home to her husband. He is now in the hospital on ventilator and the situation is very grave.
Listen, if you're to hang around your grandchildren, what do you expect? That's the price of freedumb.
I keep thinking of all those philosophers who wrote 1000 page tomes on liberty and freedom, what would they think of all this? :)
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Quebec, which has seen the highest number of Covid-related deaths in Canada, is currently struggling with a surge in cases.
On Tuesday, the premier announced that it would be the first in the nation to financially penalise the unvaccinated.
Only about 12.8% of Quebec residents are not vaccinated, but they make up nearly a third of all hospital cases. According to federal data, just over 85% of Quebec residents had received at least one vaccine dose by 1 January.
Premier Francois Legault said during a news conference that people who have not received their first dose of vaccine will have to pay a "contribution". The fee has not yet been decided, but will be "significant", he said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59960689
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Since you read both sides, which side do you think the odds are on how it occurred? 50-50 60-40 70-30??
What difference does it make? I find it troubling that so much of this "Wuhan lab vs. natural origin" concern is so blatantly racist and political, based on a desire to blame the Chinese.
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Since you read both sides, which side do you think the odds are on how it occurred? 50-50 60-40 70-30??
Why, are you trying to beat some bookie's line?
Asking for odds on this question is preposterous.
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Speaking about liberty. I know of one case where a family of 3 was not vaccinated, their little boy picked up the covid virus, then his grandma when she was babysitting was infected by him and brought it home to her husband. He is now in the hospital on ventilator and the situation is very grave.
One of the reasons I haven't seen my new grandson in 8 weeks. Coincidentally, I was in their area two Saturdays ago and was going to visit but changed my mind. The next day I came down with a cold which I would have brought to them. Obviously, my mask and limiting contact with others didn't work because I got that cold. It could been worse and have been Covid.
While I understand the point about isolation, the only country that's doing it completely apparently is China. They shut down a city of 13 million. Everyone had to stay home. In the rest of the world, everyone is doing it less then them to varying degrees. So which is the right amount?
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Why, are you trying to beat some bookie's line?
Asking for odds on this question is preposterous.
No it's not. Scientists are discussing the odds all the time not only about how it occurred. Don't we discuss the chances of getting the disease, chances of dying from the disease, based on age, comorbidities, etc? When you analyze statistics, you're discussing the odds. Decisions on mandates are based on the odds, closing facilities, etc.
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What difference does it make? I find it troubling that so much of this "Wuhan lab vs. natural origin" concern is so blatantly racist and political, based on a desire to blame the Chinese.
Why is everything a racial issue? Can't people you disagree with have other reasons besides race for their opinions? I blame the CHinese because it started in China. They didn;t tell the world about it for weeks and allowed it to extend it's reach and damage. They didn;t let a full examination of their lab. What are they hiding?
But the main reason we should know how it developed is to prepare so it doesn't happen again. How can we prevent that if we don't know how it occurred in the first place?
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... They didn;t let a full examination of their lab. ...
You say that as if you have a right to conduct inspections inside other countries.
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Oh no, there was an outbreak of chocolate in Hershey, PA but surely it did not come from the factory! That would be an irresponsible and sophomoric assumption. It would be stupid to assume one of the world's leading chocolate makers caused an eruption of chocolate in its own town.
LOL
For the life of me, I can't see the connection between covid and chocolate, let alone polytetrafluoroethylene. WTF are you on about?
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For the life of me, I can't see the connection between covid and chocolate, let alone polytetrafluoroethylene. WTF are you on about?
Chocolate has been reported to exert several effects on human sexuality, mainly acting as an effective aphrodisiac, increasing sexual desire, and improving sexual pleasure. Covid has opposite effect.
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You say that as if you have a right to conduct inspections inside other countries.
If they had nothing to hide, they would have allowed the investigation. Very suspicious of them.
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If they had nothing to hide, they would have allowed the investigation. Very suspicious of them.
If they had allowed foreign inspectors who found nothing, you'd just turn around and say that they threw out all the incriminating evidence before the inspectors got there.
Does the US allow foreign countries to inspect its government labs?
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If they had allowed foreign inspectors who found nothing, you'd just turn around and say that they threw out all the incriminating evidence before the inspectors got there.
Does the US allow foreign countries to inspect its government labs?
That's exactly what they did. They allowed inspectors in weeks or months later, after throwing everything out. Why do you defend a country that killed 8 million people, maimed millions more, and caused trillions of dollars in economic losses? I don't understand why you're on their side? It seems that you'd rather blame Trump and the Republicans rather than find out what really started this thing. You'd rather play politics than know the truth.
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That's exactly what they did. They allowed inspectors in weeks or months later, after throwing everything out. Why do you defend a country that killed 8 million people, maimed millions more, and caused trillions of dollars in economic losses? I don't understand why you're on their side? It seems that you'd rather blame Trump and the Republicans rather than find out what really started this thing. You'd rather play politics than know the truth.
You're trolling and you're not very good at it. You're trying to imply than I am on China's side. Are there sides here? Only in your head, I believe.
You state that i would rather blame Trump and the Republicans. About what? They didn't create the virus, why would I blame them for that. Seriously, are you not taking your meds? But I do blame Trump for an utterly inadequate response to a pandemic. Of that there is no question. The world's richest nation ends up with 20% of the world's deaths with only 4% of the population. Would you call that a success?
Saying that China killed 8 million is an interesting way to put it. Are you saying they did it deliberately? You're obsessing over this and I don't know why. Viruses appear all the time and have done for centuries. This was just the latest one.
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Why do you defend a country that killed 8 million people, maimed millions more, and caused trillions of dollars in economic losses? I don't understand why you're on their side? It seems that you'd rather blame Trump and the Republicans rather than find out what really started this thing. You'd rather play politics than know the truth.
Alan, it's statements like that that make us call you names.
You really need to rethink your worldview beyond that of a fourteen year old boy if you want to be taken seriously.
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Alan, it's statements like that that make us call you names.
You really need to rethink your worldview beyond that of a fourteen year old boy if you want to be taken seriously.
You rather call me names than addressing the issue I presented. Alinsky: Attack the person not the statement. If you continue down this path, then our debating will be over. As I promised, I will not and don;t want to get into name calling nonsense. You'll be on your own.
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You're trolling and you're not very good at it. You're trying to imply than I am on China's side. Are there sides here? Only in your head, I believe.
You state that i would rather blame Trump and the Republicans. About what? They didn't create the virus, why would I blame them for that. Seriously, are you not taking your meds? But I do blame Trump for an utterly inadequate response to a pandemic. Of that there is no question. The world's richest nation ends up with 20% of the world's deaths with only 4% of the population. Would you call that a success?
Saying that China killed 8 million is an interesting way to put it. Are you saying they did it deliberately? You're obsessing over this and I don't know why. Viruses appear all the time and have done for centuries. This was just the latest one.
If China was developing Covid 19 as a weapon, then they are 100% responsible for all the deaths and mayhem. If it escaped the lab that was working with it for medical and science research, then they are only liable for an accident. However, since they failed to stop their own infected people who they knew were infected from traveling to the rest of the world, and hid the nature of the disease from the world for many weeks, both of which are facts, then their liability rises.
The problem is you and others made this political just as you are in your post. You want to stick to blaming Trump. So you downplay the Chinese responsibility. You're still doing it.
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If China was developing Covid 19 as a weapon, then they are 100% responsible for all the deaths and mayhem. If it escaped the lab that was working with it for medical and science research, then they are only liable for an accident. However, since they failed to stop their own infected people who they knew were infected from traveling to the rest of the world, and hid the nature of the disease from the world for many weeks, both of which are facts, then their liability rises.
The problem is you and others made this political just as you are in your post. You want to stick to blaming Trump. So you downplay the Chinese responsibility. You're still doing it.
To be polite, you are making a lot of assumptions. I think you need a good night's sleep.
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To be polite, you are making a lot of assumptions. I think you need a good night's sleep.
Well, maybe if Biden and his son didn't get special "business" favors from the Chinese while he was VP, there might be more investigations. So now, we might have to wait until the Republicans take over Congress next year for meaningful investigations to occur. .
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If they had nothing to hide, they would have allowed the investigation. Very suspicious of them.
You really think the US would allow the Chinese inside their labs?
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Well, maybe if Biden and his son didn't get special "business" favors from the Chinese while he was VP, there might be more investigations. So now, we might have to wait until the Republicans take over Congress next year for meaningful investigations to occur. .
Wasn't that debunked a few times last year?
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Wasn't that debunked a few times last year?
Biden was protected, yes. So was his son. But it's gotten interesting again. Both in China and the Ukraine.
New book details ties between Biden family and China
The links he outlines date back to Joe Biden’s first stint in the White House, when he served as vice president under former President Barack Obama.
Schweizer writes about several off-the-books meetings involving Hunter Biden, top officials in the Chinese Communist Party and Joe Biden as well.
“There are instances where the White House visitor logs don’t show a meeting but Chinese executive or government officials report on those meetings in the Chinese media," Schweizer said in an interview Thursday.
He also laid out compelling evidence that show not only was the vice president present at those meetings, but that they were followed by five separate business deals that helped earn Biden family $31 million.
Still, Schweizer said the money is not the top concern, connecting the dots of many of the Chinese businessmen involved and how they were actually part of Chinese intelligence services.
This includes Che Feng, a man referred to by Hunter Biden as “the super chairman” for his ability to get anything done.
“While he was arranging deals for Hunter Biden and China, his partners were with the vice minister for state security in China. This is a man who is responsible for recruiting foreigners to spy on behalf of China," Schweizer said.
While the deals unquestionably helped give China a leg up in the United States, Schweizer questions whether they could also have national security implications.
https://katv.com/news/nation-world/new-book-details-ties-between-biden-family-and-china
The NY Times is also looking into their business dealing in the Ukraine.
Gray Lady ain’t done with Hunter yet
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2022/01/31/gray-lady-aint-done-with-hunter-yet-00003869
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You really think the US would allow the Chinese inside their labs?
US does not discriminate when it comes to hiring. They have all kinds of nationalities working in their labs and research centers. Some of the employees (regardless of where they were born) will copy for good money all kinds of data on their flash drives and sell it to the highest bidder.
China is turning a major part of its internal Internet-data surveillance network outward, mining Western social media, including Facebook and Twitter, to equip its government agencies, military and police with information on foreign targets, according to a Washington Post review of hundreds of Chinese bidding documents, contracts and company filings.
China maintains a countrywide network of government data surveillance services — called public opinion analysis software — that were developed over the past decade and are used domestically to warn officials of politically sensitive information online.
The software primarily targets China’s domestic Internet users and media, but a Post review of bidding documents and contracts for over 300 Chinese government projects since the beginning of 2020 include orders for software designed to collect data on foreign targets from sources such as Twitter, Facebook and other Western social media.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/china-harvests-masses-of-data-on-western-targets-documents-show/2021/12/31/3981ce9c-538e-11ec-8927-c396fa861a71_story.html
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US does not discriminate when it comes to hiring. They have all kinds of nationalities working in their labs and research centers. Some of the employees (regardless of where they were born) will copy for good money all kinds of data on their flash drives and sell it to the highest bidder.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/china-harvests-masses-of-data-on-western-targets-documents-show/2021/12/31/3981ce9c-538e-11ec-8927-c396fa861a71_story.html
J. Edgar used to keep tabs on Neil Young and MLK, so what else is new? :)
Restricting the search for espionage to different "nationalities" might be a mistake. Ethnicity isn't a guarantee of anything.
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J. Edgar used to keep tabs on Neil Young and MLK, so what else is new? :)
Restricting the search for espionage to different "nationalities" might be a mistake. Ethnicity isn't a guarantee of anything.
J Edgar Hoover spied on congressmen and presidents and the FBI was still doing it with Trump. Schumer even laughed when Trump went after the CIA knowing they'd get him back.
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J Edgar Hoover spied on congressmen and presidents and the FBI was still doing it with Trump. Schumer even laughed when Trump went after the CIA knowing they'd get him back.
I knew you'd find a way to make this subject anti-Democrat.
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I knew you'd find a way to make this subject anti-Democrat.
It's not anti-Democrat. Hoover spied on both republicans and democrats. He kept personal files on all their peccadilloes. That's how he stayed FBI chief through something like 7 different presidents. They were all afraid of him. Who knows what he had on them in his personal files? So this stuff has been going on for decades and decades. This is third-world stuff.
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Now 3 of my friends (3 different families) who have a small child or came into contact with their grandchild got infected by covid. It seems that children can be affected by omicron easier than by the earlier variants.
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Now 3 of my friends (3 different families) who have a small child or came into contact with their grandchild got infected by covid. It seems that children can be affected by omicron easier than by the earlier variants.
All three subtypes of the Omicron variant are extremely contagious, and the BA.2 subtype (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=137509.msg1234809#msg1234809) has been circulating in Toronto for at least a week. Children, like adults, probably need much less exposure to become infected and they can transmit the virus to others even though they may not themselves have any symptoms.
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I wonder if anti-vaxxers have a problem with tetanus booster shots when they step on a nail.
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I hear lately from my friends that they know other people who were recently infected. The last of the 3 cases I mentioned was a situation where a small boy infected his mother and both grandparents - so 4 people in total. Since the covid effects were not catastrophic, they just stayed in bed for a or two, got better and never reported their infections. I guess that there are many situations like that, so the official stats show substantially fewer cases than the real count. In other words, the real situation is much worse than reported by CDC and media.
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I hear lately from my friends that they know other people who were recently infected. The last of the 3 cases I mentioned was a situation where a small boy infected his mother and both grandparents - so 4 people in total. Since the covid effects were not catastrophic, they just stayed in bed for a or two, got better and never reported their infections. I guess that there are many situations like that, so the official stats show substantially fewer cases than the real count. In other words, the real situation is much worse than reported by CDC and media.
Similar stories here. My wife's nephew and his wife were both infected via their daughter at day care. Friends of ours here in town caught it from their school-aged kids.
The US Worldometer 7-day infection rate seems to have started dropping although deaths are still above 2000 per day. I guess there will be a lag of a week or two before deaths start dropping.
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Similar stories here. My wife's nephew and his wife were both infected via their daughter at day care. Friends of ours here in town caught it from their school-aged kids.
The US Worldometer 7-day infection rate seems to have started dropping although deaths are still above 2000 per day. I guess there will be a lag of a week or two before deaths start dropping.
I think this is more due to the fact (as I estimated in my previous post) that the death numbers are real whereas the infection cases are under-reported.
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I hear lately from my friends that they know other people who were recently infected. The last of the 3 cases I mentioned was a situation where a small boy infected his mother and both grandparents - so 4 people in total. Since the covid effects were not catastrophic, they just stayed in bed for a or two, got better and never reported their infections. I guess that there are many situations like that, so the official stats show substantially fewer cases than the real count. In other words, the real situation is much worse than reported by CDC and media.
It could be the glass half full vs half empty. If there are actually more cases than reported, that means the death rate is lower than believed. That's good news.
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What's going on north of the border? What's with you Canadians? You seem to be picking up bad habits from your neighbors. I see sedition, a coup, who knows what's next?
Trudeau: Canadians disgusted by anti-vaxxers who desecrated monuments
Thousands gathered in Ottawa to protest against Covid mandates and some urinated on the National War Memorial
Justin Trudeau has said that Canadians were disgusted by the behaviour of anti-vaccine protesters, and said he would not be intimidated by those who hurled abuse.
The Canadian prime minister spoke as central Ottawa remained blockaded by dozens of trucks and other vehicles after thousands descended upon Parliament Hill on Saturday to protest against Covid-19 vaccine mandates.
Police said they were investigating possible criminal charges after protesters urinated on the National War Memorial, danced on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and used the statue of Canadian hero Terry Fox to display an anti-vaccine statement. Some also harassed volunteers at a soup kitchen and flew Nazi flags.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/31/canada-anti-vaccine-protests-criminal-charges
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What's going on north of the border? What's with you Canadians? You seem to be picking up bad habits from your neighbors. I see sedition, a coup, who knows what's next?
Trudeau: Canadians disgusted by anti-vaxxers who desecrated monuments
Thousands gathered in Ottawa to protest against Covid mandates and some urinated on the National War Memorial
Justin Trudeau has said that Canadians were disgusted by the behaviour of anti-vaccine protesters, and said he would not be intimidated by those who hurled abuse.
The Canadian prime minister spoke as central Ottawa remained blockaded by dozens of trucks and other vehicles after thousands descended upon Parliament Hill on Saturday to protest against Covid-19 vaccine mandates.
Police said they were investigating possible criminal charges after protesters urinated on the National War Memorial, danced on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and used the statue of Canadian hero Terry Fox to display an anti-vaccine statement. Some also harassed volunteers at a soup kitchen and flew Nazi flags.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/31/canada-anti-vaccine-protests-criminal-charges
It's a shit show.
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Interesting reports. Natural immunity is better than vaccines; both are better by themselves than neither.
The CDC is finally recognizing 'natural immunity' — legislators should follow suit
The report finally acknowledges what many have suspected for a long time — that surviving COVID-19 provides excellent natural immunity not only repeat infection but also to hospitalization and death for the delta variant of COVID-19.
The pattern of improved protection after natural infection makes sense. It always has. That’s how immunity against infections works. That is why vaccines work. The COVID-19 vaccines were developed to mimic a natural infection based on the original virus that was identified in 2019, what biologists call the "wildtype" strain of SARS-CoV-2. The vaccines, especially the commonest mRNA-based ones, use the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, the protein that acts as a key to enter cells and cause infection. By blocking that entry with vaccine-induced antibodies, infection is prevented.
In contrast, during a natural infection, the human body is exposed to all parts of the virus, including the spike protein. When the immune system responds to enable recovery from the infection, it is broader and more diverse, with a greater ability to defend against any future SARS-CoV-2 virus variants. Therefore, while mutations naturally form in the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein through the process of viral evolution, the targeted vaccine-based approach to attack the spike protein, while still effective, is not as robust as the armamentarium created from surviving a true infection, and most effective in combination with vaccination.
What is clear from the new CDC report over all periods is this — the worst group to be in is the nonvaccinated group without prior COVID-19. That group is the most likely to be infected, and if also at risk for severe disease — older 65 years of age, obese, chronically ill or immunocompromised — the most likely to die from an infection. Therefore, if you are in this group, please get vaccinated!
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/592457-the-cdc-is-finally-recognizing-natural-immunity-legislators-should-follow
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Interesting reports. Natural immunity is better than vaccines; ...
Not always the case. This has been discussed before.
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Not always the case. This has been discussed before.
The article is based on a CDC report dated January 28, 2022, so it's the latest data. I'm trying to follow the science. Don't you want me to? ;)
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm
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The article is based on a CDC report dated January 28, 2022, so it's the latest data. I'm trying to follow the science. Don't you want me to? ;)
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm
Since when do you believe anything the CDC reports? Since when do you believe scientists? Did you cherry pick the parts of the report that agreed with you? Your track record on these things is not good.
As has been discussed before, there are viruses for which man-made vaccines that work better than "natural" immunity and there are those for which the opposite is true. This report, and I haven't read it yet so I'm taking your word for what it says, seems to indicate something about Covid. It's not clear to me if it covers all mutations, that is, might there be some for which this is not true. I may have time to look it over later but it does not look promising.
It's an interesting finding, but it's not necessarily something that calls for a change in our actions. If "naturally acquired" immunity works better than a man-made vaccine, but acquiring the disease kills a significant proportion of those infected, it might not help us much at all. But if the lethality of future mutations is greatly decreased, this might be good news.
With many colds and flus, we acquire natural immunity but it wears off quickly and the viruses change, so even if "natural" is better than "man-made", the advantage may be moot. It depends. Still, it may be another weapon in the arsenal.
In the future, please alert us if/when you are ready to accept the findings of scientists.
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Since when do you believe anything the CDC reports? Since when do you believe scientists? Did you cherry pick the parts of the report that agreed with you? Your track record on these things is not good.
As has been discussed before, there are viruses for which man-made vaccines that work better than "natural" immunity and there are those for which the opposite is true. This report, and I haven't read it yet so I'm taking your word for what it says, seems to indicate something about Covid. It's not clear to me if it covers all mutations, that is, might there be some for which this is not true. I may have time to look it over later but it does not look promising.
It's an interesting finding, but it's not necessarily something that calls for a change in our actions. If "naturally acquired" immunity works better than a man-made vaccine, but acquiring the disease kills a significant proportion of those infected, it might not help us much at all. But if the lethality of future mutations is greatly decreased, this might be good news.
With many colds and flus, we acquire natural immunity but it wears off quickly and the viruses change, so even if "natural" is better than "man-made", the advantage may be moot. It depends. Still, it may be another weapon in the arsenal.
In the future, please alert us if/when you are ready to accept the findings of scientists.
I'm only reporting what they say. Is it true? I don't know any more than you. I'm just reporting it. The next report could reverse this one. That's the problem. It's that there hasn't been much consistency. From a personal understanding, it seems likely that natural immunity should be better than vaccines. But then, I'm not a scientist. ;)
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The article is based on a CDC report dated January 28, 2022, so it's the latest data. . . .
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm
This report, and I haven't read it yet so I'm taking your word for what it says, seems to indicate something about Covid. It's not clear to me if it covers all mutations . . .
It doesn't. It reflects data that were collected before the Omicron variant began circulating in the United States. The data also were collected before "booster" doses of the coronavirus vaccines were generally authorized and recommended.
Vaccination protected against COVID-19 and related hospitalization, and surviving a previous infection protected against a reinfection and related hospitalization during periods of predominantly Alpha and Delta variant transmission, before the emergence of Omicron; evidence suggests decreased protection from both vaccine- and infection-induced immunity against Omicron infections, although additional protection with widespread receipt of booster COVID-19 vaccine doses is expected. Initial infection among unvaccinated persons increases risk for serious illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death; by November 30, 2021, approximately 130,781 residents of California and New York had died from COVID-19. Thus, vaccination remains the safest and primary strategy to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infections, associated complications, and onward transmission. Primary COVID-19 vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended by CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to ensure that all eligible persons are up to date with COVID-19 vaccination, which provides the most robust protection against initial infection, severe illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death.
The data summarized in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/index.html) at the link above suggest that individuals infected with the Delta variant in California and New York between May and November of last year, prior to the emergence of Omicron, experienced more robust immunity against subsequent SARS-CoV-2 infection whether or not they had been vaccinated than individuals who previously had only received the initial (i.e., not "boosted") doses of the three vaccines administered in those states earlier in the year. The report simply offers another increment of information about the virus. I wouldn't read anything more into it.
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It doesn't. It reflects data that were collected before the Omicron variant began circulating in the United States. The data also were collected before "booster" doses of the coronavirus vaccines were generally authorized and recommended.
The data summarized in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/index.html) at the link above suggest that individuals infected with the Delta variant in California and New York between May and November of last year, prior to the emergence of Omicron, experienced more robust immunity against subsequent SARS-CoV-2 infection whether or not they had been vaccinated than individuals who previously had only received the initial (i.e., not "boosted") doses of the three vaccines administered in those states earlier in the year. The report simply offers another increment of information about the virus. I wouldn't read anything more into it.
So you're claiming the news article was wrong based on another scientific report that they didn't report on. Fake news. What else is new? Like I said, how does the ordinary citizen know what to believe? You proved my point. You can't trust anyone. You have to be your own counsel.
By the way, you're not a scientist. So why should I believe what you said and "...not read anything more into it"? The article I read says natural immunity is more effective. Just because there was no study yet of variants after Delta doesn't disprove that. Aren't you jumping to conclusions? But you add to the confusion about even scientific data I've complained about in trying to decipher what everyone is saying. The poor layman is only left with more confusion. Is natural immunity more or less effective than vaccinations?
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So why should I believe what you said . . .
You were not expected to understand it.
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So you're claiming the news article was wrong based on another scientific report that they didn't report on. Fake news. What else is new? Like I said, how does the ordinary citizen know what to believe? You proved my point. You can't trust anyone. You have to be your own counsel.
No that's not what he said, but we knew that's where you'd end up. I don't know if it's because you truly cannot understand nuance or that you're just trolling, because it smells like trolling.
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I'm only reporting what they say. Is it true? I don't know any more than you. I'm just reporting it. But then, I'm not a scientist.
Fake news. What else is new? Like I said, how does the ordinary citizen know what to believe? You proved my point. You can't trust anyone.
And who do you think is to blame for all this, Alan?
It wasn't always this way in "The greatest country ever, in the entire history of the world".
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Is natural immunity more or less effective than vaccinations?
Looking at the number of people in hospital ICUs, they're both more effective than no vaccination, assuming the unvaccinated patients recovered well to begin with. And since the antibody count reduces over time, vaccination seems safer than reinfection.
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What a pleasure not having to discuss discontent in America for a change.
Covid News: Trucker-Led Protests Expand Beyond Canadian Capital
Protesters against pandemic-related measures have paralyzed Ottawa for a week and arrived in Toronto.
OTTAWA — Protesters in Ottawa and other cities across Canada took to the streets on Saturday for the second weekend in a row to continue demonstrations against pandemic restrictions. The demonstrations that began with truckers critical of vaccine mandates have grown to include a range of other political causes, including opposition to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
While the police and officials braced for rowdy crowds and potential violence, the atmosphere of the demonstrations by midday Saturday, though loud, remained mostly peaceful and festive.
In Ottawa, despite frigid temperatures, a band performed on the street in front of Parliament Hill underneath a Canadian flag dangling from a large construction crane. Nearby, several inflatable bouncy castles were set up, and makeshift canteens throughout downtown dispensed food. At a municipal baseball stadium parking lot that truckers were using for staging and camping, three saunas were brought in.
On the streets, many people walking to the protest greeted one another with raised fists and shouts of “freedom.”
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/05/world/covid-test-vaccine-cases
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What a pleasure not having to discuss discontent in America for a change.
Covid News: Trucker-Led Protests Expand Beyond Canadian Capital
Protesters against pandemic-related measures have paralyzed Ottawa for a week and arrived in Toronto.
OTTAWA — Protesters in Ottawa and other cities across Canada took to the streets on Saturday for the second weekend in a row to continue demonstrations against pandemic restrictions. The demonstrations that began with truckers critical of vaccine mandates have grown to include a range of other political causes, including opposition to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
While the police and officials braced for rowdy crowds and potential violence, the atmosphere of the demonstrations by midday Saturday, though loud, remained mostly peaceful and festive.
In Ottawa, despite frigid temperatures, a band performed on the street in front of Parliament Hill underneath a Canadian flag dangling from a large construction crane. Nearby, several inflatable bouncy castles were set up, and makeshift canteens throughout downtown dispensed food. At a municipal baseball stadium parking lot that truckers were using for staging and camping, three saunas were brought in.
On the streets, many people walking to the protest greeted one another with raised fists and shouts of “freedom.”
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/05/world/covid-test-vaccine-cases
From what I can tell from people I know and what they see on social media, the protesters have very little support. The number of protestors who are there for "other" reasons are too numerous to ignore and they are distasteful. I read one report of a group whose beliefs are that all public health offices should be closed. Yeah sure, that will get a lot of traction.
There are reports of people finding human feces on their front lawns, now there's a video that should go viral. People's patience is running out. It's all so silly since many provinces are opening up because of the fall in infections and deaths BECAUSE of vaccines and other measures. The arguments about "freedom" are falling on deaf ears.
There's a reluctance to crack heads on the part of the authorities, which I understand, but we're starting to get counter-demonstrations in various cities now. Some of the politicians who hoped to make hay by supporting these guys are beginning to pull back as they sense a lack of support among voters. Principles, real or imagined, always take a back seat to votes.
A local journalism grad is privately tracking the identity of businesses who have supported the protestors and he has found that a large number of them are recipients of government Covid grants, which should be embarrassing except they're probably not embarrassed. I've seen other efforts online of people getting pics of vehicle plates and even VIN numbers and they plan to report activities to various entities like police and insurance companies and employers. So, like I've said before, it's a shit show.
Btw, it's a literal shit show. The amount of litter, garbage and human bodily wastes on the streets downtown is disgusting. And it's all going nowhere, that's a given.
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From what I can tell from people I know and what they see on social media, the protesters have very little support. The number of protestors who are there for "other" reasons are too numerous to ignore and they are distasteful. I read one report of a group whose beliefs are that all public health offices should be closed. Yeah sure, that will get a lot of traction.
There are reports of people finding human feces on their front lawns, now there's a video that should go viral. People's patience is running out. It's all so silly since many provinces are opening up because of the fall in infections and deaths BECAUSE of vaccines and other measures. The arguments about "freedom" are falling on deaf ears.
There's a reluctance to crack heads on the part of the authorities, which I understand, but we're starting to get counter-demonstrations in various cities now. Some of the politicians who hoped to make hay by supporting these guys are beginning to pull back as they sense a lack of support among voters. Principles, real or imagined, always take a back seat to votes.
A local journalism grad is privately tracking the identity of businesses who have supported the protestors and he has found that a large number of them are recipients of government Covid grants, which should be embarrassing except they're probably not embarrassed. I've seen other efforts online of people getting pics of vehicle plates and even VIN numbers and they plan to report activities to various entities like police and insurance companies and employers. So, like I've said before, it's a shit show.
Btw, it's a literal shit show. The amount of litter, garbage and human bodily wastes on the streets downtown is disgusting. And it's all going nowhere, that's a given.
It sounds like the start of the BLM demonstrations except Canadians are more polite.
By the way, your argument that it's only a "few" people is what I say about so-called "white supremacists" here in America. Sure there are a few. But they're a minority overblown by press reports that look for news to sell. They make it sound like there's a KKK chapter in every town, which of course is ridiculous.
However, I suspect there's more to these demonstrations that might appear on the surface. These are not radicals, not the extremes from one side or the other. They remind me of "the deplorables", the middle class and the "silent majority" folks in America who voted for Nixon and Trump. People who feel the government just doesn't care about their problems.
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It sounds like the start of the BLM demonstrations except Canadians are more polite.
By the way, your argument that it's only a "few" people is what I say about so-called "white supremacists" here in America. Sure there are a few. But they're a minority overblown by press reports that look for news to sell. They make it sound like there's a KKK chapter in every town, which of course is ridiculous.
However, I suspect there's more to these demonstrations that might appear on the surface. These are not radicals, not the extremes from one side or the other. They remind me of "the deplorables", the middle class and the "silent majority" folks in America who voted for Nixon and Trump. People who feel the government just doesn't care about their problems.
Why would you think you know anything about this?
Here's an article someone sent to me, but I don't know who the author is, https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/03/opinions/canada-truckers-protests-covid-19-trudeau-cohen/index.html (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/03/opinions/canada-truckers-protests-covid-19-trudeau-cohen/index.html).
In one sense, it doesn't matter who wrote it or what he says, because you won't read it.
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Why would you think you know anything about this?
Here's an article someone sent to me, but I don't know who the author is, https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/03/opinions/canada-truckers-protests-covid-19-trudeau-cohen/index.html (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/02/03/opinions/canada-truckers-protests-covid-19-trudeau-cohen/index.html).
In one sense, it doesn't matter who wrote it or what he says, because you won't read it.
I read the opinion. Well, here's a slightly different opinion on the matter from Newsweek not CNN, both rather liberal media. But I doubt if you'll read it.
What I though was interesting is that Saskatchewan and Alberta are ending their Covid mandates. It must be Canadian flyover territories. The politicians there who are ending the rules must have returned from their winter vacations in Florida and were impressed by Gov Disantis's popularity or they're feeling the pressure from the truckers.
https://www.newsweek.com/canadas-politicians-only-have-themselves-blame-trucker-protests-opinion-1676400
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[/u]OTTAWA — Protesters in Ottawa and other cities across Canada took to the streets on Saturday for the second weekend in a row to continue demonstrations against pandemic restrictions. The demonstrations that began with truckers critical of vaccine mandates have grown to include a range of other political causes, including opposition to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
While the police and officials braced for rowdy crowds and potential violence, the atmosphere of the demonstrations by midday Saturday, though loud, remained mostly peaceful and festive.
In Ottawa, despite frigid temperatures, a band performed on the street in front of Parliament Hill underneath a Canadian flag dangling from a large construction crane. Nearby, several inflatable bouncy castles were set up, and makeshift canteens throughout downtown dispensed food. At a municipal baseball stadium parking lot that truckers were using for staging and camping, three saunas were brought in.
Most protesters there must be oddballs and physically challenged persons. All normal Ottawans are at this time of year, especially on a warm day like today, skating on the frozen Rideau Canal.
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... from Newsweek not CNN, both rather liberal media. ...
Your views on what is left or right are suspect.
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What I though was interesting is that Saskatchewan and Alberta are ending their Covid mandates. ...
That's not the least bit interesting, you're just fishing for lame talking points. Like I said, and as others have said, when provinces feel that the infection rates are low enough, they will relax restrictions. This happened last year and has always been policy, nothing new, although maybe it's news to you. Nothing to do with a tiny minority of truckers throwing temper tantrums. Like the rest of the country, most Canadian truckers are vaccinated. They have to be if they expect to cross the border into the US.
No new information even penetrates your deflector shields, does it?
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Most protesters there must be oddballs and physically challenged persons. All normal Ottawans are at this time of year, especially on a warm day like today, skating on the frozen Rideau Canal.
As an off-topic aside, skateways are in vogue this year, it appears. Within an hour of Ottawa, there are 10 or so fairly lengthy skateways (2 to 5 km or so). Some are in marshes, others on calm river channels, others are plowed out of forested areas. I'm sorry I never learned to skate now.
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...
That's not the least bit interesting, you're just fishing for lame talking points. Like I said, and as others have said, when provinces feel that the infection rates are low enough, they will relax restrictions. This happened last year and has always been policy, nothing new, although maybe it's news to you. Nothing to do with a tiny minority of truckers throwing temper tantrums. Like the rest of the country, most Canadian truckers are vaccinated. They have to be if they expect to cross the border into the US.
...
You're not keeping up with the news. You've been following American news more than Canadian. Health wasn't the reason. It was for freedom and economic reasons. It seems that both provinces agree with the truckers and are worried politically.
Canada’s Truckers Hold The Line Against Absent Trudeau as Provinces Announce End of Restrictions.
Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe has said his government will move to end COVID-19 measures that restrict the rights and freedoms of the Canadian people. Moe has already received criticism from state-funded far-left Canadian Broadcasting Corporation after he posted a statement to social media where he claimed, correctly, that the COVID-19 vaccination does not reduce transmission or contraction of the virus.
https://thenationalpulse.com/2022/02/03/canadas-truckers-hold-the-line-against-absent-trudeau-as-one-province-announces-end-of-restrictions/
Vaccine Mandate Not Needed for Truckers, Says Alberta Premier
Alberta Premier Jason Kenney says U.S. and Canadian governments should reinstate a vaccine exemption for cross-border truckers to ease supply chain snarls.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2022-01-28/vaccine-mandate-not-needed-for-truckers-says-alberta-premier
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As an off-topic aside, skateways are in vogue this year, it appears. Within an hour of Ottawa, there are 10 or so fairly lengthy skateways (2 to 5 km or so). Some are in marshes, others on calm river channels, others are plowed out of forested areas. I'm sorry I never learned to skate now.
You're Canadian and don't know how to skate? ::)
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It's getting worse in Toronto. Police are unconstitutionally shutting down access to prevent Canadians from speaking freely. Obviously acting like fascists. Today's 2/6. Almost like 1/6. Coincidence? Canadians should demand cops be defunded. They need to be taught a lesson.
‘This is a siege,’ says Ottawa police chief as blockades and protests over covid measures enter second weekend
OTTAWA — Protests over coronavirus public health measures and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau entered their second weekend here with much of the downtown core of Canada’s capital blockaded by trucks in what officials are calling an “occupation.”
Demonstrations in solidarity with the self-described “Freedom Convoy” also popped up in other cities across Canada, including Toronto and Quebec City.
Police in Ottawa have responded to more than 650 service calls, opened up 97 criminal investigations and received over 200 calls to a hate-crime hotline since the demonstrations began, according a Sunday report.
Between Saturday and Sunday morning, Ottawa police said, they issued more than 450 tickets for offenses such as excessive noise, use of fireworks, and driving with a suspended license, through a red light, on a sidewalk or between marked lanes.
“This is a siege,” Sloly said Saturday. “It is something that is different in our democracy than I’ve ever experienced in my life.”
The disorder is proving deeply discouraging to many Canadians. “It feels like something broke in Canada this week,” contributing columnist Robin V. Sears wrote in Sunday’s Toronto Star. “The nation that has always been a little too smug about its values of civility and respect seemed to have disappeared, replaced by what looked far more American than Canadian.”
Jeff, a truck driver in Toronto who does not drive cross-border routes, said he has been out of work since October because he is not vaccinated.
“There’s no reason for them to force this inoculation on me,” he said, declining to give his last name.
The demonstrations — which have drawn praise from Fox News personalities, Donald Trump and Tesla founder Elon Musk — have left residents on edge.
The sound of horns is almost constant. Police say residents have been the targets of intimidation and racist vitriol.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/05/canada-ottawa-trucker-vaccine-mandate-protest/
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You're not keeping up with the news. You've been following American news more than Canadian. Health wasn't the reason. It was for freedom and economic reasons. It seems that both provinces agree with the truckers and are worried politically.
Canada’s Truckers Hold The Line Against Absent Trudeau as Provinces Announce End of Restrictions.
Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe has said his government will move to end COVID-19 measures that restrict the rights and freedoms of the Canadian people. Moe has already received criticism from state-funded far-left Canadian Broadcasting Corporation after he posted a statement to social media where he claimed, correctly, that the COVID-19 vaccination does not reduce transmission or contraction of the virus.
https://thenationalpulse.com/2022/02/03/canadas-truckers-hold-the-line-against-absent-trudeau-as-one-province-announces-end-of-restrictions/
Vaccine Mandate Not Needed for Truckers, Says Alberta Premier
Alberta Premier Jason Kenney says U.S. and Canadian governments should reinstate a vaccine exemption for cross-border truckers to ease supply chain snarls.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2022-01-28/vaccine-mandate-not-needed-for-truckers-says-alberta-premier
Why do you insist on trying to tell me what's going 10 km from my house? Freedom and economics my ass. 99% of Canada's truckers are vaccinated, working (as we speak) and earning their keep. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. People have been working up here in Canada all along, except for hits to tourism and restaurants. if those truckers wanted to work, all they'd have to do is show up because I head there's a driver shortage. They don't want to be told to get a vaccine, boo hoo. I'm sure they've had TB, small pox, diptheria, measles and tetanus vaccines their whole lives. I can smell a bullshit political movement when I see one.
There are clowns in this "protest" who hold up signs calling for the elimination of "public health". Sure, let's go back to the 18th century, it was so much fun back then, typhoid, small pox, TB. There are confederate flags, FFS. There are morons there with Trump hats. In Canada. What is that if not stupid?
But I won't go on, since I don't like feeding trolls. So far as I can tell, what you want is the freedom for everyone else to go to work and risk getting sick to keep the price of your toilet paper low.
Remember, they defecated on people's lawns. They kept air horns blowing into the night in residential neighbourhoods. What does that have to do with freedom and economics?
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Why do you insist on trying to tell me what's going 10 km from my house? Freedom and economics my ass. 99% of Canada's truckers are vaccinated, working (as we speak) and earning their keep. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. People have been working up here in Canada all along, except for hits to tourism and restaurants. if those truckers wanted to work, all they'd have to do is show up because I head there's a driver shortage. They don't want to be told to get a vaccine, boo hoo. I'm sure they've had TB, small pox, diptheria, measles and tetanus vaccines their whole lives. I can smell a bullshit political movement when I see one.
There are clowns in this "protest" who hold up signs calling for the elimination of "public health". Sure, let's go back to the 18th century, it was so much fun back then, typhoid, small pox, TB. There are confederate flags, FFS. There are morons there with Trump hats. In Canada. What is that if not stupid?
But I won't go on, since I don't like feeding trolls. So far as I can tell, what you want is the freedom for everyone else to go to work and risk getting sick to keep the price of your toilet paper low.
Remember, they defecated on people's lawns. They kept air horns blowing into the night in residential neighbourhoods. What does that have to do with freedom and economics?
I don't care if the truckers are right or wrong about masks and vax. I was trying to point out this comment made previously by a Canadian in the article. There are a lot of Canadians here who have made constant snide comments about America and Americans. Now you have to look inward as well.
The disorder is proving deeply discouraging to many Canadians. “It feels like something broke in Canada this week,” contributing columnist Robin V. Sears wrote in Sunday’s Toronto Star. “The nation that has always been a little too smug about its values of civility and respect seemed to have disappeared, replaced by what looked far more American than Canadian.”
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It's getting worse in Toronto. Police are unconstitutionally shutting down access to prevent Canadians from speaking freely. Obviously acting like fascists. Today's 2/6. Almost like 1/6. Coincidence? Canadians should demand cops be defunded. They need to be taught a lesson.
‘This is a siege,’ says Ottawa police chief as blockades and protests over covid measures enter second weekend
OTTAWA — Protests over coronavirus public health measures and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau entered their second weekend here with much of the downtown core of Canada’s capital blockaded by trucks in what officials are calling an “occupation.”
Police in Ottawa have responded to more than 650 service calls, opened up 97 criminal investigations and received over 200 calls to a hate-crime hotline since the demonstrations began, according a Sunday report.
Between Saturday and Sunday morning, Ottawa police said, they issued more than 450 tickets for offenses such as excessive noise, use of fireworks, and driving with a suspended license, through a red light, on a sidewalk or between marked lanes.
Just received an email from a friend in Ottawa, who shed a little bit more light on the demonstrations there. According to her, most protesters troublemakers are from outside of town, and many even outside of Canada. Most stores in Ottawa, including various offices are now locking the entry doors to prevent the undesirable elements from entering their promises.
The police had blocked some intersections in the city to stop the trucks from getting to Parliament Hill. Trucks came to Ottawa about 9 days ago from the West, from the Toronto area and from Montreal. More trucks have been arriving every day, some from the USA. The Ottawa police and the RCMP are trying to contain the trucks into specific areas so that they don't block all the downtown streets.
Ottawa residents are not joining the protest, instead they are doing some anti-protest walking the residential streets in solidarity with the people who are now subject to truck horns blaring night and day, and more noise from fireworks at night from encampments that the truckers convoy had set up in a park downtown. It's a mess. The police are damned if they do and damned if they don't take action so they are negotiating or trying to wait it out. The protestors are carrying Canadian flags and have Canadian flags on their trucks, which is disgusting. They don't represent Canadians nor are they patriots. They are scummy irresponsible covid spreaders, who act against public health policy. Nobody knows how it will all end.
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Sounds like sedition, treason, wanting to overthrow the Canadian government. Not allowing the government to function. Unabashed racism. How American of Canada. And where is the PM during all this hullabaloo? In hiding.
Protesters have paralyzed downtown Ottawa for the past nine days, with some participants waving Confederate or Nazi flags and some saying they want to dissolve Canada's government. Convoy organizers say they will not leave until the vaccine mandates are ended.
Police said they had charged four people with hate crimes and were investigating threats against public figures jointly with the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Trudeau, who is isolating after testing positive for COVID-19 last week, has ruled out using the military to disband the protest. Due to security concerns, Trudeau and his family left their downtown home last weekend and his location has not been disclosed.
A senior member of the Liberal government said the ease with which the convoy shut down the area around the parliament and the seeming impotence of police was a "national humiliation".
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/protest-against-vaccine-mandates-paralyzing-canada-capital-mayor-says-2022-02-06/
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Just received an email from a friend in Ottawa, who shed a little bit more light on the demonstrations there. According to her, most protesters troublemakers are from outside of town, and many even outside of Canada. Most stores in Ottawa, including various offices are now locking the entry doors to prevent the undesirable elements from entering their promises.
The police had blocked some intersections in the city to stop the trucks from getting to Parliament Hill. Trucks came to Ottawa about 9 days ago from the West, from the Toronto area and from Montreal. More trucks have been arriving every day, some from the USA. The Ottawa police and the RCMP are trying to contain the trucks into specific areas so that they don't block all the downtown streets.
Ottawa residents are not joining the protest, instead they are doing some anti-protest walking the residential streets in solidarity with the people who are now subject to truck horns blaring night and day, and more noise from fireworks at night from encampments that the truckers convoy had set up in a park downtown. It's a mess. The police are damned if they do and damned if they don't take action so they are negotiating or trying to wait it out. The protestors are carrying Canadian flags and have Canadian flags on their trucks, which is disgusting. They don't represent Canadians nor are they patriots. They are scummy irresponsible covid spreaders, who act against public health policy. Nobody knows how it will all end.
The Jan 6th protestors at the Capitol were out-of-towners too.
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Well, the Ottawa mayor could ask for help from our Capitol Police. ???
OTTAWA, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson on Sunday declared a state of emergency to help deal with an unprecedented 10-day occupation by protesting truckers that has shut down much of the core of the Canadian capital.
"(This) reflects the serious danger and threat to the safety and security of residents posed by the ongoing demonstrations and highlights the need for support from other jurisdictions and levels of government," he said in a statement.
Watson, who complained earlier in the day that the demonstrators outnumbered police and controlled the situation, did not give details of what measures he might impose.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/protest-against-vaccine-mandates-paralyzing-canada-capital-mayor-says-2022-02-06/
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It's getting worse in Toronto. Police are unconstitutionally shutting down access to prevent Canadians from speaking freely. Obviously acting like fascists. ...
It really would be a lot better for everyone if you'd stop talking about things you don't know the first thing about.
They've been protesting for a week now, there are social media pages about them, NO ONE has stopped them from saying their piece and making their views known. They have more than amply made their points known. No one denied them their say. We're way past that.
Just heard from a friend who lives downtown that he was yelled at a couple of times for wearing a mask. Thank goodness they're fighting for freedom, eh?
You might be interested in this Twitter thread about an arson committed by these freedom fighters, https://twitter.com/TiMunoz/status/1490473045965815812 (https://twitter.com/TiMunoz/status/1490473045965815812).
Btw, the city has now declared a state of emergency. I haven't read all the details but I think that may be because the city is limited in what it can do on its own. By declaring a state of emergency then the provincial government gets involved. This is right, imo, because the dispute is really about provincial (and federal) regulations so it only makes sense that those levels of government be involved.
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Arson? In Canada? I'm shocked.
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The Jan 6th protestors at the Capitol were out-of-towners too.
Yah, but they weren't from out-of-country.
There are very few things that piss me off more than knowing that a large percentage of these idiots are replicas of the idiots that voted for Trump.
There are very few things that piss me off more than knowing that a large percentage of the GFM donations are either anonymous, or American.
Why would you hide your identity? Isn't the whole idea one of making YOUR voice heard?
There are very few things that piss me off more than knowing that some of those idiots were sporting Nazi, Trump and Confederate flags.
Just like in the USA.
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Arson? In Canada? I'm shocked.
Are you 10 years old?
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A heartwarming story this morning from the front lines of "freedumb fighting", https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/moo-shu-ice-cream-employee-assaulted-1.6341207 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/moo-shu-ice-cream-employee-assaulted-1.6341207).
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OTTAWA, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson on Sunday declared a state of emergency to help deal with an unprecedented 10-day occupation by protesting truckers that has shut down much of the core of the Canadian capital.
The worst of the protesters may be deplorables, but they are our deplorables, peculiarly and certifiably Canadian. As long as they are not stopped by the police, tolerated by the public and ignored by lawmakers, they will be free to sit on the sidewalk, sleep in the cold and honk into the wind.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/03/opinions/canada-truckers-protests-covid-19-trudeau-cohen/index.html
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/03/opinions/canada-truckers-protests-covid-19-trudeau-cohen/index.html
I see Elon Musk is supporting the truckers. I guess he wants to sell them EV trucks when the holiday is over and they have to go back to work.
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I see Elon Musk is supporting the truckers. I guess he wants to sell them EV trucks when the holiday is over and they have to go back to work.
I heard about that. I wonder why he thinks he has anything of value to add to the discussion. Does he mistakenly think that someone voted for him and that he is expected to say something about it? Does he think his opinion matters?
This must an occupational hazard among successful people. He has done well in previous endeavours, it goes to his head, and so he assumes that his views about all kinds of things unrelated to his area of expertise are correct and important.
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Looks like the Capitol. Smells like the Capitol. Are you sure there wasn't an election?
Trucks and hundreds of protesters on Monday still occupy the downtown core in Ottawa, where fuel is banned from entering the protest "red zone" in front of parliament. Of more than 60 criminal investigations underway in the capital city, most involve alleged hate crimes, property damage, thefts and mischief, police there said.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/07/americas/canada-trucker-protests-covid-weekend-arrests-monday/index.html
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I heard about that. I wonder why he thinks he has anything of value to add to the discussion. Does he mistakenly think that someone voted for him and that he is expected to say something about it? Does he think his opinion matters?
This must an occupational hazard among successful people. He has done well in previous endeavours, it goes to his head, and so he assumes that his views about all kinds of things unrelated to his area of expertise are correct and important.
Musk is a rebel. Look at his businesses. Of course, he would be with the truckers. Besides tweeting, "Canadian truckers rule". He also tweeted, "CB radios are free from govt/media control". Obviously a rebel.
When he sells his EV trucks, they have to include a CB. He'll have customers for life.
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Musk is a rebel. Look at his businesses. Of course, he would be with the truckers. Besides tweeting, "Canadian truckers rule". He also tweeted, "CB radios are free from govt/media control". Obviously a rebel.
When he sells his EV trucks, they have to include a CB. He'll have customers for life.
A multi-billionaire rebel? Give your head a shake.
Your position is that these truckers are "rebels"? Oh stop trolling. Who is paying you? They're not getting their money's worth.
Are you in favour of them accosting people on sidewalks and yelling at them for wearing masks? Is that rebellion in your book? How about assaulting store employees because of their Asian background? Is that rebellion?
You're making a fool of yourself.
His tweet about "Canadian truckers rule" can be read a different way. 99.9% of Canadian truckers are out there working. Are they the ones he's supporting? And anyway, what does his "support" amount to? A few typed words on social media? Maybe he should start up a competitor to PayPal, only with lower fees this time. Now that would be "rebelllious". Isn't competition good, like you keep reminding us.
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A multi-billionaire rebel? Give your head a shake.
Your position is that these truckers are "rebels"? Oh stop trolling. Who is paying you? They're not getting their money's worth.
Are you in favour of them accosting people on sidewalks and yelling at them for wearing masks? Is that rebellion in your book? How about assaulting store employees because of their Asian background? Is that rebellion?
You're making a fool of yourself.
His tweet about "Canadian truckers rule" can be read a different way. 99.9% of Canadian truckers are out there working. Are they the ones he's supporting? And anyway, what does his "support" amount to? A few typed words on social media? Maybe he should start up a competitor to PayPal, only with lower fees this time. Now that would be "rebelllious". Isn't competition good, like you keep reminding us.
You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't take a side for or against the Canadian truckers. I've already stated that I'm trying to show that Canada has their groups of individuals who violate the law and protest just like Americans. Too many Canadians here are always putting down America and Americans, looking down your noses at us, as if you have a monopoly on civility. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't take a side for or against the Canadian truckers. I've already stated that I'm trying to show that Canada has their groups of individuals who violate the law and protest just like Americans. Too many Canadians here are always putting down America and Americans, looking down your noses at us, as if you have a monopoly on civility. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
You've invented a bullshit cover story that Canadians think we're better. No one ever claimed this. You're just choosing to see criticism that way. There is no shortage of morons anywhere, including Canada.
I don't recall anyone putting down Americans, mostly we've put down Trump and his hangers-on. There's a difference.
And don't be a hypocrite now. YOU called them rebels, thus trying to dignify them. That's what I was calling you on, don't try to deflect.
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You've invented a bullshit cover story that Canadians think we're better. No one ever claimed this. You're just choosing to see criticism that way. There is no shortage of morons anywhere, including Canada.
I don't recall anyone putting down Americans, mostly we've put down Trump and his hangers-on. There's a difference.
And don't be a hypocrite now. YOU called them rebels, thus trying to dignify them. That's what I was calling you on, don't try to deflect.
You've called Americans treasonous, racists, and other impolite names for years. You've made fun of American activities, political and otherwise. Calling the people who voted for Trump "Hangers-on" is an insult in itself. We're not "hangers-on" but his supporters and voters. Calling him a racist, a traitor, a Nazi, a fascist, is insulting to his supporters. That's what you're calling us by association 74 million people voted for Trump. Now the chicken comes home to roost and you deny what you said and thought. It won't work.
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You've called Americans treasonous, racists, and other impolite names for years. You've made fun of American activities, political and otherwise. Calling the people who voted for Trump "Hangers-on" is an insult in itself. We're not "hangers-on" but his supporters and voters. Calling him a racist, a traitor, a Nazi, a fascist, is insulting to his supporters. That's what you're calling us by association 74 million people voted for Trump. Now the chicken comes home to roost and you deny what you said and thought. It won't work.
By hangers-on, I was referring to his political cronies. Who, by the way, are starting to abandon him bit by bit, which is not surprising given his habit of throwing temper tantrums when anyone disagrees with him.
There is nothing wrong with ridiculing and attacking politicians. They're fair game. You've been doing it with every Democrat who breathes.
Trump is demonstrably racist, and the people who refuse to see that are making a mistake.
If you had a sensible political system, instead of a de facto arbitrary two-party state, some of those 74 million might have had someone better to vote for.
As for your feeling attacked, you should learn to differentiate between political criticism and personal insult. They're not the same thing.
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When he sells his EV trucks, they have to include a CB. He'll have customers for life.
Just more proof that you're an old, ignorant white guy.
While you weren't looking, CB radios have all but vanished as a communications medium for truckers.
Today, they wear a headset and communicate by cellphone. Unlimited, coast-to-coast plans allow them talk to anyone, anywhere, whenever they choose for as long as they choose. They have scheduled group chats, like Zoom meetings, but talk only.
As an aside, one of the primary disabilities seen in long distance truckers is loneliness. Unlimited countrywide talk is a huge mitigator of this.
I know it's hard, Alan, but try to keep up. There's more to life than high school economics and geopolitics lectures.
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You've called Americans treasonous, racists, and other impolite names for years.
We've called SOME Americans "treasonous, racists, and other impolite names for years".
And with good reason, as recent events will attest.
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By hangers-on, I was referring to his political cronies. Who, by the way, are starting to abandon him bit by bit, which is not surprising given his habit of throwing temper tantrums when anyone disagrees with him.
There is nothing wrong with ridiculing and attacking politicians. They're fair game. You've been doing it with every Democrat who breathes.
Trump is demonstrably racist, and the people who refuse to see that are making a mistake.
If you had a sensible political system, instead of a de facto arbitrary two-party state, some of those 74 million might have had someone better to vote for.
As for your feeling attacked, you should learn to differentiate between political criticism and personal insult. They're not the same thing.
And your PM Trudeau insultingly and racistly wore blackface three times that we know about. All I'm asking is for a little humility. Canadians aren't perfect either. You spend too much time as a Canadian putting down Americans like we're inferior. That's not right. I'm not an ogre and neither are most Americans.
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Just more proof that you're an old, ignorant white guy.
While you weren't looking, CB radios have all but vanished as a communications medium for truckers.
Today, they wear a headset and communicate by cellphone. Unlimited, coast-to-coast plans allow them talk to anyone, anywhere, whenever they choose for as long as they choose. They have scheduled group chats, like Zoom meetings, but talk only.
As an aside, one of the primary disabilities seen in long distance truckers is loneliness. Unlimited countrywide talk is a huge mitigator of this.
I know it's hard, Alan, but try to keep up. There's more to life than high school economics and geopolitics lectures.
I didn't say it, Musk said it. Try to keep up. ("CB radios are free from govt/media control")
And his point is well taken. The government can secretly listen to your cell phone calls. The NSA is doing it all the time. So are Putin and Xi. It's much harder with a CB radio moving in a truck on the interstate.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1486806256027422730
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And your PM Trudeau insultingly and racistly wore blackface three times that we know about. All I'm asking is for a little humility. Canadians aren't perfect either. You spend too much time as a Canadian putting down Americans like we're inferior. That's not right. I'm not an ogre and neither are most Americans.
As explained a few times to you in my previous posts, Trudeau painted his face ages ago, when it was not politically incorrect yet. It wasn't a political or racial message, and he didn't have PM aspirations at that time. He was a young teacher partying all the time. Most probably some of the journalists who now ride the PC wagon applauded him then.
Actually, although I never condoned it, I think it was less harmful than some of the hideous permanent tattoos you see today.
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As explained a few times to you in my previous posts, Trudeau painted his face ages ago, when it was not politically incorrect yet. It wasn't a political or racial message, and he didn't have PM aspirations at that time. He was a young teacher partying all the time. Most probably some of the journalists who now ride the PC wagon applauded him then.
Actually, although I never condoned it, I think it was less harmful than some of the hideous permanent tattoos you see today.
The third blackface incident happened in the late 1990s when he was 29 years old as a grown man. A teacher! He wasn't a young student. Plus he came from a political family who should have known better. Just how many smarts does one Canadian need to have to know not to wear blackface? Who believes he didn't have political aspirations coming from a political family?. His father was Prime Minister. Meanwhile, everyone here accused Trump of doing bad stuff like sleeping around when he was a civilian. His only political time was when he was president, never before. Yet you're making excuses for Trudeau's racist acts. Come on.
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The third blackface incident happened in the late 1990s when he was 29 years old as a grown man. A teacher! He wasn't a young student. Plus he came from a political family who should have known better. Just how many smarts does one Canadian need to have to know not to wear blackface? Who believes he didn't have political aspirations coming from a political family?. His father was Prime Minister. Meanwhile, everyone here accused Trump of doing bad stuff like sleeping around when he was a civilian. His only political time was when he was president, never before. Yet you're making excuses for Trudeau's racist acts. Come on.
When in Florida, I see there many, many people with dark and wrinkled faces. I don't know if they put black shoe polish on their faces or if they stayed too long in the sun. Not mentioning the millions of youths with the nose rings. Don't you feel bad about the pour aboriginals who have to suffer the indignation of those white dummies stealing their unique customs and heritage?
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I didn't say it, Musk said it. Try to keep up. ("CB radios are free from govt/media control")
I didn't quote Elon. I quoted you.
When he sells his EV trucks, they have to include a CB. He'll have customers for life.
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The third blackface incident happened in the late 1990s when he was 29 years old as a grown man. A teacher! He wasn't a young student. Plus he came from a political family who should have known better. Just how many smarts does one Canadian need to have to know not to wear blackface? Who believes he didn't have political aspirations coming from a political family?. His father was Prime Minister. Meanwhile, everyone here accused Trump of doing bad stuff like sleeping around when he was a civilian. His only political time was when he was president, never before. Yet you're making excuses for Trudeau's racist acts. Come on.
What game is being played here, my dad is stronger than your dad? I assumed we were all grown-ups.
First, this must be the 4th or 5th time you've brought up this behaviour. We heard you the first time. Have you not been able to find anything else yet?
Second, it was over 20 years ago.
Third, who cares. I don't. So the Prime Minister of Canada did something stupid 20 years ago. Big whoop. I mean, who didn't do something stupid once.
Fourth, you seem to think that saying something injurious to the character of the guy in the top job here is supposed to bother us. WTF? This implies to me that you take it personally when I call Trump a moron. Why would you take that personally? What's he to you? Are you related? Were you hoping that a female in your family would marry one of his rich sons? I mean, get over it already. I've forgotten why we're even discussing this.
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What game is being played here, my dad is stronger than your dad? I assumed we were all grown-ups.
First, this must be the 4th or 5th time you've brought up this behaviour. We heard you the first time. Have you not been able to find anything else yet?
Second, it was over 20 years ago.
Third, who cares. I don't. So the Prime Minister of Canada did something stupid 20 years ago. Big whoop. I mean, who didn't do something stupid once.
Fourth, you seem to think that saying something injurious to the character of the guy in the top job here is supposed to bother us. WTF? This implies to me that you take it personally when I call Trump a moron. Why would you take that personally? What's he to you? Are you related? Were you hoping that a female in your family would marry one of his rich sons? I mean, get over it already. I've forgotten why we're even discussing this.
Why didn't people here get over that Trump had some affairs when he wasn't a politician twenty years ago, that he paid off some bimbo to keep her mouth shut about the affair? It seems you can complain about our leader but you accept everything yours does as OK. Seems like a double standard. How many times have you brought up Trump's behavior in six years? I guess you don't care that Trudeau is a racist.
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Getting back to Covid, it seems anti-vax Canadians and others who prefer no mandates at all have shut down democracy in Canada as Parliament stopped operating due to their demonstrations in Ottawa and other provincial capitals. (Ottawa is Canada's national capital) Fortunately, no electors were in session to make a determination on who the next PM would be. Meanwhile, PM Trudeau, sick with Covid despite his vaccinations, left the Capitol in a hurry, and his whereabouts are unknown at this time to avoid making others sick, I'm sure.
Canada Live Updates: Ottawa Declares a State of Emergency Amid Trucker Protests
Canadians awoke on Monday with their capital, Ottawa, under a state of emergency, as protesting truckers continued to occupy the country’s center of political power and calls were growing in some quarters for the government to take more drastic action to end the crisis.
On Sunday afternoon, the mayor of Ottawa declared the emergency after 10 days of unrest that began with protests by truckers over vaccine mandates imposed by the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. The protests have since mushroomed into an occupation of Canada’s capital and broader demonstrations over pandemic restrictions that have spread well beyond the capital.
“Someone is going to get killed or seriously injured because of the irresponsible behavior of some of these people,” Jim Watson, Ottawa’s mayor, warned on Sunday. City officials and the chief of police said they were under “siege.”
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/07/world/canada-trucker-protest
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Getting back to Covid, it seems anti-vax Canadians and others who prefer no mandates at all have shut down democracy in Canada as Parliament stopped operating due to their demonstrations in Ottawa and other provincial capitals. (Ottawa is Canada's national capital) Fortunately, no electors were in session to make a determination on who the next PM would be. Meanwhile, PM Trudeau, sick with Covid despite his vaccinations, left the Capitol in a hurry, and his whereabouts are unknown at this time to avoid making others sick, I'm sure.
Canada Live Updates: Ottawa Declares a State of Emergency Amid Trucker Protests
Canadians awoke on Monday with their capital, Ottawa, under a state of emergency, as protesting truckers continued to occupy the country’s center of political power and calls were growing in some quarters for the government to take more drastic action to end the crisis.
On Sunday afternoon, the mayor of Ottawa declared the emergency after 10 days of unrest that began with protests by truckers over vaccine mandates imposed by the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. The protests have since mushroomed into an occupation of Canada’s capital and broader demonstrations over pandemic restrictions that have spread well beyond the capital.
“Someone is going to get killed or seriously injured because of the irresponsible behavior of some of these people,” Jim Watson, Ottawa’s mayor, warned on Sunday. City officials and the chief of police said they were under “siege.”
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/07/world/canada-trucker-protest
You're right, we're all living in fear for our lives. Trudeau can't be found, time to build a wall.
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Meanwhile, more local here in New Jersey where I live, Democrat Governor Murphy, looking north to Ottawa and the problems there, blinked. There it is. Democrats have declared that Covid is over! No trucker demonstrations in NJ, that's for sure.
N.J. Governor to End School Mask Mandate in Move to ‘Normalcy’
For the first time since the start of the pandemic, New Jersey districts will be permitted to allow students and teachers to stop wearing masks.
“This is not a declaration of victory as much as an acknowledgment that we can responsibly live with this thing,” Mr. Murphy, the vice chairman of the National Governors Association, said Monday in announcing the elimination of the mandate.
Last week, after meeting with President Biden at the White House during an annual governors conference, Mr. Murphy suggested it was time to reconsider how to manage the virus. “The overwhelming sentiment on both sides of the aisle,” he said on Wednesday, “is we want to get to a place where we can live with this thing in as normal a fashion as possible.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/07/nyregion/nj-school-mask-mandate-murphy.html
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Why didn't people here get over that Trump had some affairs when he wasn't a politician twenty years ago, that he paid off some bimbo to keep her mouth shut about the affair? It seems you can complain about our leader but you accept everything yours does as OK. Seems like a double standard. How many times have you brought up Trump's behavior in six years? I guess you don't care that Trudeau is a racist.
I can't speak for others but I couldn't care less who politicians have sex with. The only aspect of Trump's sex life that was interesting was that he ran for a party who have been boring everyone about "family values' since I can remember and that the so-called "Christian" right accepted him despite boasting about grabbing women. It was also telling how the party of "law and order" had no problem with him trying rig the Georgia vote or calling for them to stop counting votes on election night. At least Trudeau never called Mexicans rapists and he didn't try to ban members of a religious group from entering the country. I find your attempts at equivalence less than compelling.
Being ok with all those things says a lot about you and the G.O.P.
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I can't speak for others but I couldn't care less who politicians have sex with. The only aspect of Trump's sex life that was interesting was that he ran for a party who have been boring everyone about "family values' since I can remember and that the so-called "Christian" right accepted him despite boasting about grabbing women. It was also telling how the party of "law and order" had no problem with him trying rig the Georgia vote or calling for them to stop counting votes on election night. At least Trudeau never called Mexicans rapists and he didn't try to ban members of a religious group from entering the country. I find your attempts at equivalence less than compelling.
Being ok with all those things says a lot about you and the G.O.P.
I never accepted Trump's picadilloes. I said I thought he'd be a better president than a corrupt Hillary Clinton. That's what our choice was. Being ok with Trudeau's insensitivity using blackface says a lot too.
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I never accepted Trump's picadilloes.
According to dictionary.com the definition of picadillo is
"a very minor or slight sin or offense; a trifling fault."
Or, in other words (according to Alan): sexual assault.
You wonder, Alan, why we call you names - "despicable" among them.
You deserve them.
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I never accepted Trump's picadilloes. ...
Did your nose suddenly get larger?
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...Meanwhile, PM Trudeau, sick with Covid despite his vaccinations, left the Capitol in a hurry, and his whereabouts are unknown at this time to avoid making others sick, I'm sure....
The information I've seen is that he was isolating himself from others because he was exposed. I have not seen any mention anywhere that he was sick "despite his vaccinations". Did you actually read this somewhere or did you just make it up?
But why are you now disparaging vaccinations, I thought you were in favour of them. Trump is, he even gets booed because of it.
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According to dictionary.com the definition of picadillo is
"a very minor or slight sin or offense; a trifling fault."
Or, in other words (according to Alan): sexual assault.
You wonder, Alan, why we call you names - "despicable" among them.
You deserve them.
I'mm tired of your personal assault. Bye.
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The information I've seen is that he was isolating himself from others because he was exposed. I have not seen any mention anywhere that he was sick "despite his vaccinations". Did you actually read this somewhere or did you just make it up?
But why are you now disparaging vaccinations, I thought you were in favour of them. Trump is, he even gets booed because of it.
You don't think he left town because he didn't want others to get sick. Of course, he left town to avoid the truckers.
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You don't think he left town because he didn't want others to get sick. Of course, he left town to avoid the truckers.
This thread has now gotten a bit too high school for me but before I let it drop, this news report is interesting, especially the embedded video, https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/downtown-residents-flee-home-protest-fears-1.6341652 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/downtown-residents-flee-home-protest-fears-1.6341652).
The interim opposition party leader (they are in-between leaders at the moment) Candice Bergen echoed Trump in a speech saying (paraphrasing) 'there are good people on both sides.' I like that "both" sides bit, I guess she means the guys who assault Asian women wearing masks.
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This thread has now gotten a bit too high school for me but before I let it drop, this news report is interesting, especially the embedded video, https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/downtown-residents-flee-home-protest-fears-1.6341652 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/downtown-residents-flee-home-protest-fears-1.6341652).
The interim opposition party leader (they are in-between leaders at the moment) Candice Bergen echoed Trump in a speech saying (paraphrasing) 'there are good people on both sides.' I like that "both" sides bit, I guess she means the guys who assault Asian women wearing masks.
Candice Bergen's statement is not in the article you linked too. Maybe I missed it.
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Candice Bergen's statement is not in the article you linked too. Maybe I missed it.
For your interest:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/bergen-pushed-o-toole-to-back-convoy-saying-there-are-good-people-on-both-sides-sources-1.5768337
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Candice Bergen's statement is not in the article you linked too. Maybe I missed it.
Sorry, inadequate proof-reading. I meant to put in the word "elsewhere" because didn't have the link, but I see that someone else has supplied it.
The irony is too delicious. When First Nations groups protest, the Conservatives are always the first to talk "law and order", can't have a minority of protestors dictating to us, blah, blah. Now some of them are having pizza with the protestors. I wonder if they accompany them when the boys are out harassing passing citizens.
A friend mentioned (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) that the reason the protestors weren't disbanded after the first weekend was because of demographics. They are all white. If there had been some first nations people or Asians or Arabs in the group, they might have taken action earlier. Cruel thing to say, maybe, but my friend likes gallows humour, as do I. He went on to suggest that since a few Conservative party caucus members liked hanging with the boys, no cop wants to be the one who inadvertently roughs up one of them.
The provincial premier has been pretty slow in responding. Being a Conservative, and a right wing one at that, I suppose he sees this as an opportunity to embarrass the federal Liberals. It won't win him any voters in Ottawa but I doubt he cares. There's a provincial election coming up June 2, but I'm cynical so I don't expect much blowback, except he won't win many votes in Ottawa. I assume his guys has done the spreadsheet cost/benefits calculations.
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Scoring his own goal - Driver supporting protests 'floored' by harassment, death threats.
An Ottawa tow truck operator says he has received hundreds of calls, including death threats, from protest supporters who mistakenly believe he removed a plywood shack from Confederation Park at the request of police, when he was actually helping protesters. Structures in the park, including a shack used to provide meals for protesters, were removed on Sunday after protesters co-operated with police and the park was fenced off — a move lauded as a victory by the Ottawa Police Service.
Randy May says he was behind the wheel of the tow truck that relocated the shed to the lot on Coventry Road next to the Ottawa baseball stadium, which is a key camp for protesters. The owner of Advanced Towing & Recovery, who says he supports the protest against all COVID-19 vaccine mandates and public health restrictions, said he was not contacted by police. He was actually contacted by one of the protest organizers, Pat King, to remove the shack after responding to a plea on social media.
May has since tried to contact protest organizers to clear up the misunderstanding so the calls stop. He says he has not yet received a response.
"It kind of swayed my judgment on certain things," said May, who does say he still supports the protest.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-convoy-protest-shack-towed-reaction-1.6342357
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"Friendly fire."
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And medical staff in Vancouver advised by police not to wear scrubs outside on the way to/from work, lest it offend all those freedom demonstrators, https://globalnews.ca/news/8597044/vancouver-hospital-workers-told-not-to-wear-scrubs-id-outside-during-covid-19-protests/?utm_source=leadnow&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blast2022-02-07 (https://globalnews.ca/news/8597044/vancouver-hospital-workers-told-not-to-wear-scrubs-id-outside-during-covid-19-protests/?utm_source=leadnow&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blast2022-02-07).
It's not easy to remain polite.
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"Friendly fire."
Let me guess, it's the price of freedom, right?
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Let me guess, it's the price of freedom, right?
I was referring to Les's post when one of the protesters was accosted by other protestors in error. That's "friendly fire" in war when you mistakenly shoot your own troops.
I'm not familiar with Canadian constitutional law. But I suppose they're entitled to protest just like on 1/6 and the BLM protests in America. But they're not allowed to riot or break the law. What I find interesting is how hapless the chief of police is and PM. It's been a week or so, and they still haven't gotten their acts together with enough police to control the problem spots, just as what happened on Jan 6th with the Capitol Police. Fortunately, Canadian truckers are more polite than Trump supporters.
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"Friendly fire."
"Deplorables" would be a more appropriate term.
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...But they're not allowed to riot or break the law. What I find interesting is how hapless the chief of police is and PM. It's been a week or so, and they still haven't gotten their acts together with enough police to control the problem spots, just as what happened on Jan 6th with the Capitol Police. Fortunately, Canadian truckers are more polite than Trump supporters.
The Prime Minister would have no direct say in local criminal matters that are mostly a provincial matter, although I'm sure the feds would have stuck their noses in since the protest was ostensibly about federal legislation, although it was never really about that imo. This city does not have a large riot-equipped police force which is probably why they declared a state of emergency, which should have given them access to provincial support. The fact they the provincial government has not acted is no surprise to me, as I have nothing good to say about the current provincial government, whose main concern is in netting great land deals for their real estate buddies, so far as anyone can tell.
The protests should have been disbanded after that first weekend. The failure of the so-called "law and order" Conservative party is also noteworthy, but maybe they'll be punished at the next election. But none of their leaders are what I would call alphas and it was silly to expect much from them.
Fortunately, Canadian truckers are more polite than Trump supporters.
Maybe. The 99.9% who are at work and not demonstrating downtown probably are. All the ones I've known were. We've been wondering how the ones downtown can afford to keep hundred thousand rigs idle for 10 days while complaining that they can't work (which is not true).
No question that it's a shit show all round.
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Ottawa protest inspires talk of copycat convoys in U.S.
In the U.S. Congress, members laced into each other in a debate about the protest in Ottawa and the broader question of vaccine mandates.
A Texas Republican voiced support for the convoy, while mocking Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
"I'm perfectly happy to slap around the Canadian prime minister for his absolute, abject failure and to side with Canadian truckers," lawmaker Chip Roy said.
This was after a Democrat scolded Roy for propagating the absurd lie that Trudeau had escaped to the U.S. and was hiding there.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/ottawa-truck-protest-convoy-us-1.6343784
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Re: Covid General discussions
« Reply #227 on: Today at 04:21:44 pm »
ReplyQuote
Ottawa protest inspires talk of copycat convoys in U.S.
Quote
In the U.S. Congress, members laced into each other in a debate about the protest in Ottawa and the broader question of vaccine mandates.
A Texas Republican voiced support for the convoy, while mocking Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
"I'm perfectly happy to slap around the Canadian prime minister for his absolute, abject failure and to side with Canadian truckers," lawmaker Chip Roy said.
This was after a Democrat scolded Roy for propagating the absurd lie that Trudeau had escaped to the U.S. and was hiding there.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/ottawa-truck-protest-convoy-us-1.6343784
Frankly, if I was Trudeau, this would have been a great time to flee to Florida where all the other Canadian snowbirds are. Who needs truckers or the cold. I spoke to my friend there in Florida, a snow bird from my NJ community. He said it was 78F. (26C) Can't beat that.
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Apparently, pantyhose helps seal masks on your face. It's not clear if you should wash it first.
Pantyhose as COVID-19 Protection? Study Reveals How It Helps Shield Users from the Virus More Effectively
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/35951/20220204/pantyhose-covid-19-protection-study-reveals-helps-shield-users-virus.htm
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Confirming my previous prediction, Covid is over and will effectively end by the end of February or shortly thereafter. Restrictions are being lifted all around as Demcorats are joining Republicans in recognizing the political reality of the situation, if not the science. Apparently, Democrats blinked.
Dropping Indoor Mask Mandate, New York Joins Blue States Easing Covid Rules
After a scare in November, New Jersey’s governor and other Democratic leaders held back-channel talks over lifting mandates and helping voters impatient with restrictions reclaim a sense of normalcy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/us/politics/new-york-mask-mandate.html
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If Canada follows suit like the NY and NJ governors, the truckers blockade will end. What will Trudeau do? Will he blink also? He says that protests "undermine democracy". Eh?
Meanwhile, the blockade spreads. What will Biden do? Trudeau and Biden will be talking soon. How is NATO going to stop the Russians of they can't stop truckers. What are the Chinese thinking about all this vis a vis Taiwan?
Canada Protests: Plans for a Protest by Truckers in the U.S. Gain Momentum
A convoy-style demonstration starting in California and ending in Washington appears to be gathering supporters online.
As Ottawa remained paralyzed by nearly two weeks of protests against pandemic measures, the demonstrations continued to reverberate beyond Canada, with a new road blockade temporarily cutting off the country’s busiest border crossing and copycat convoys spreading to New Zealand and Australia, with plans for a third in the United States.
While smaller than the protests that have buffeted the core of Ottawa, Canada’s capital, the new protest targets the Ambassador Bridge to Detroit. The bridge is a vital link for the automobile industry, which relies on a constant shuttling of parts and components across the border to keep factories humming in Ontario and the Midwestern United States.
The heavy trucks and private vehicles have blocked traffic destined for Canada. On Tuesday morning the Canada Border Services Agency listed the bridge as “temporarily closed.” But Windsor Police said on Twitter that traffic was again moving to the United States through a secondary entrance to the bridge.
Most of the trucks in the Windsor protest were covered with flags and posters denouncing vaccine mandates and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Mr. Trudeau himself had his own message for the protesters in the national capital, whom he accused of undermining Canadian democracy: “It has to stop.”
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/08/world/canada-trucker-protest
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Confirming my previous prediction, Covid is over and will effectively end by the end of February or shortly thereafter. Restrictions are being lifted all around as Demcorats are joining Republicans in recognizing the political reality of the situation, if not the science. Apparently, Democrats blinked.
Yeah, Covid is over. 2,777 US deaths yesterday.
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Confirming my previous prediction, Covid is over and will effectively end by the end of February or shortly thereafter. Restrictions are being lifted all around as Demcorats are joining Republicans in recognizing the political reality of the situation, if not the science. Apparently, Democrats blinked.
Well, you've predicted the end a few times now. You were bound to be right eventually, weren't you.
Several jurisdictions have partly "opened" things up in the past, at least twice here in Ontario and both times we've had to lockdown again later. So, we'll see. Because of vaccines and less lethal changes in the virus, this time might work. Let's hope so. So far, it's looking promising, although daily deaths in the US are still pretty high compared to almost everything except war.
Which makes these "freedom convoy" protests bizarre, doesn't it? The process has evolved more or less EXACTLY the way that virologists and epidemiologists said it would, we're finally coming out of it at about the timeframe that experts said we would (except a bit quicker because of vaccines) but now the boys are complaining about those very procedures, after they have been shown to work. WTF? A public letter from the Ottawa protestors actually mentions the corruption of human DNA by the vaccines, which belongs up there with alien abductions and flat earth.
But hey, if you want to take the credit for predicting the end, who am I to contradict you? As you've said many times, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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Yeah, Covid is over. 2,777 US deaths yesterday.
those deaths are from old cases. The case load had disintegrated to a tiny fraction of what was in early January. Democrats think it's over too. Or blinked.
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Yeah, Covid is over. 2,777 US deaths yesterday.
That you keep arguing with a fact denier whose only task here is to troll nonsense like what is seen below should prove, this is all pointless and troll feeding:
December 19th he says this, then today** tells you your stats are from old cases.
So now that Covid is on the way out, we're left with the economic damage.
But if you insist on providing him a platform, he'll use it. Why do you think he started this new thread?
** those deaths are from old cases. The case load had disintegrated to a tiny fraction of what was in early January. Democrats think it's over too. Or blinked.
Worth repeating for those of you who know this troll is here simply for attention, not to seriously talk about Covid-19:
Your recreational ignorance is showing again.
It isn't recreational, it is professional.
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those deaths are from old cases. ...
How old? From Saturday?
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those deaths are from old cases. The case load had disintegrated to a tiny fraction of what was in early January. Democrats think it's over too. Or blinked.
The deaths are from 2-week old, 1 week old and also new cases, some reported and some not reported. If the official stats show 169,000 cases in one day, the real number could be 300,000 - 400,000. As mentioned in one of my posts, three adults in my friend's family contracted covid from their small boy. They all stayed in bed for two days and quarantined for a week, but didn't bother to report it. 4 unreported cases. There will thousands of situations like this.
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The deaths are from 2-week old, 1 week old and also new cases, some reported and some not reported. If the official stats show 169,000 cases in one day, the real number could be 300,000 - 400,000. As mentioned in one of my posts, three adults in my friend's family contracted covid from their small boy. They all stayed in bed for two days and quarantined for a week, but didn't bother to report it. 4 unreported cases. There will thousands of situations like this.
It's over. Democrats don't care about those numbers any longer. Science is passe. Democrats in NY and NJ and many other states run by democrats don't care what the CDC recommends (they complain it's not time yet, but Democrats don't care about their science. What phonies.) Economics and politics have taken over as I said they would a long time ago. They don't want truckers tying up the roads as in Canada. Politicians are running scared especially with the upcoming elections. Polls are running against Biden. The mask mandates are over in NY and NJ or will be within weeks. Deaths may be high in other parts of America, but not here. Posting a number like 2,000 for a country as large as America over three thousand miles wide means nothing. Each of the fifty states and their governors decides for itself what to do. NJ and NY are moving on. Covid is over.
CDC director: Cases too high to end indoor masking requirements
The head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said the agency is still not ready to make recommendations on relaxing mask requirements, even as more governors announce their intentions to do so.
"We are working on that guidance," Rochelle Walensky told reporters during a White House briefing, but "our hospitalizations are still high, our death rates are still high. So as we work towards that and as we are encouraged by the current trends, we are not there yet."
Her comments come as a growing number of states, like California, Delaware and New York announced this week their intentions to drop indoor mask mandates in the coming days. Some others, like Connecticut, Massachusetts and New Jersey, are eliminating mask mandates in schools. [All Democrat governors except Massachusets].
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/593501-cdc-director-cases-too-high-to-end-indoor-masking-requirements
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... Science is passe. ...
What a howler.
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Canadian truckers and free speech are winning. Canadian politicians surrender like democrats are in America. We should send those truckers to the Ukraine. They have more moxie than NATO, especially Germany. Politicans in the USA have kept their eyes on Canadian truckers too. See my last post regarding their about-face.
Canadian provinces lift COVID restrictions, protests remain
TORONTO (AP) — A rapidly growing list of Canadian provinces moved to lift their COVID-19 restrictions as protesters decrying such measures kept up the pressure with truck blockades Wednesday in the capital and at key U.S. border crossings, including the economically vital bridge to Detroit.
Alberta, Saskatchewan, Quebec and Prince Edward Island announced plans this week to roll back some or all precautions, with Alberta, Canada’s most conservative province, dropping its vaccine passport for places such as restaurants immediately and getting rid of masks at the end of the month.
At a news conference in Ottawa that excluded mainstream news organizations, Benjamin Dichter, one of the protest organizers, said: “I think the government and the media are drastically underestimating the resolve and patience of truckers.”
“Drop the mandates. Drop the passports,” he said.
The “freedom truck convoy” has been promoted by Fox News personalities and attracted support from many U.S. Republicans, including former President Donald Trump, who called Prime Minister Justin Trudeau a “far left lunatic” who has “destroyed Canada with insane Covid mandates.”
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-business-health-prince-edward-canada-6f60c879c0c2eff82235e3157ad79bb0
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What a howler.
I didn't say that. Democrats did. They were the ones who dropped mandates even though the CDC said the science says it's too soon. So all the nonsense Democrats poured out for two years was all politics, trying to gain and maintain power for themselves. They never gave a hoot about the science or the deaths. It was all about power. Now the political circumstances have changed. The politics are against mandates. So they folded. They threw in the towel. Science lost.
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Canadian truckers and free speech are winning.
Who was ever denied free speech?
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Who was ever denied free speech?
Where did I say free speech was denied. In fact, I said the opposite. I said free speech is winning. It's because of free speech of Canadian truckers, Canada is changing its mind about mandates. And they're helping to change mandates here in the USA. Thank you Canada.
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I didn't say that. Democrats did. They were the ones who dropped mandates even though the CDC said the science says it's too soon. So all the nonsense Democrats poured out for two years was all politics, trying to gain and maintain power for themselves. They never gave a hoot about the science or the deaths. It was all about power. Now the political circumstances have changed. The politics are against mandates. So they folded. They threw in the towel. Science lost.
In fairness to Biden, he's still following the science as outlined by the CDC even though many important democratic governors have discarded CDC advice like California, NJ and NJ. He just has not gotten the political memo yet: It's over.
The Memo: Biden caught between CDC and Democratic governors on COVID-19
President Biden is being put in a difficult spot on COVID-19 — and this time he can thank Democratic-led states for the conundrum.
Four states, all of which have Democratic governors, have announced in recent days that they are going to lift mask mandates for schools. Separately, deep-blue California is going to end its policy of requiring vaccinated people to mask while indoors next week.
But the Biden administration has promised to follow the guidance of scientists, specifically those at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The CDC has not yet issued any change to its guidance on masking.
That leaves Biden in a bind.
The White House risks looking overly cautious on restrictions if it sticks with the status quo — a dangerous political position in a nation that has grown frustrated and restless after two years of pandemic restrictions.
“Already you are seeing a large swath of public opinion opposing CDC ‘dictating’ mandates. They see the case numbers plummeting and they see Democratic governors lifting mandates. There is enormous political peril for the White House.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/593381-the-memo-biden-caught-between-cdc-and-democratic-governors-on-covid-19
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I guess you'll have to ackowledge that Biden solved the Covid problem.
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Where did I say free speech was denied. In fact, I said the opposite. I said free speech is winning. It's because of free speech of Canadian truckers, Canada is changing its mind about mandates. And they're helping to change mandates here in the USA. Thank you Canada.
As has been explained a few times now, and this will be my last. The demonstration in Ottawa has almost NOTHING to do with mandates and freedom. A tiny minority of anti-vaxxers are using mandates and passports as cover. Their literature and graffiti slogans downtown are all about anti-science and the (non-existent) dangers of vaccines. The vast vast vast majority of truckers are out there driving, showing various papers at borders, no problems, no issues. This whole thing was made up.
That's the last time I'm going to waste my time with you on this, because I know you won't listen anyway.
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What a howler.
Beat me to it. :)
Expert On All Things posts idiocy again.
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Posting a number like 2,000 for a country as large as America over three thousand miles wide means nothing. Each of the fifty states and their governors decides for itself what to do. NJ and NY are moving on. Covid is over.
2000 dead in February 2022 is a higher number than in summer 2021. So relative to those summer numbers, covid is still up.
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I guess you'll have to ackowledge that Biden solved the Covid problem.
Well, actually the Democratic governors did. "Mandates over.". Problem solved. ;)
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2000 dead in February 2022 is a higher number than in summer 2021. So relative to those summer numbers, covid is still up.
Democrats don't care about the science. Democrats are only looking at the politics of it. Mandates have become a real loser. So they're changing their minds and ignoring the science. Democratic governors (but not Biden, yet) are telling the CDC to go "stick it." They've become republicans.
The democrats' position was never based on science. It was based on the politics of it as I've been saying for two years. Masks and mandates were always politics. From the beginning. It became an argument against Trump and Republicans in an election year to gain and keep power. Now that masks and mandates are a political loser, they're ignoring the science and dropping them against CDC recommendations. Democrats were playing the public the whole time using Covid for political power. As long as science and political expediency worked together, they were all for science. As soon as the two separated, they showed their true selves. They fooled a lot of people.
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Well, actually the Democratic governors did. "Mandates over.". Problem solved. ;)
The problem is the virus, not the mandates.
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I thought you'd like reading this craziness from one of the convoy donors, https://pressprogress.ca/next-step-is-civil-war-big-money-convoy-donor-says-ottawa-siege-may-be-canadas-last-hope/ (https://pressprogress.ca/next-step-is-civil-war-big-money-convoy-donor-says-ottawa-siege-may-be-canadas-last-hope/).
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I thought you'd like reading this craziness from one of the convoy donors, https://pressprogress.ca/next-step-is-civil-war-big-money-convoy-donor-says-ottawa-siege-may-be-canadas-last-hope/ (https://pressprogress.ca/next-step-is-civil-war-big-money-convoy-donor-says-ottawa-siege-may-be-canadas-last-hope/).
He's fighting for what he believes is his and others' freedoms. He seems to be winning. Various provinces have already dropped their mandates. What he has shown is the Canadian government run by PM Trudeau is weak, feckless. At least on 1/6, the interlopers were stopped after one day. Meanwhile, Canada futzes around threatening and complaining and showing weakness. The country seems leaderless from here.
Combined with Biden's cowardly pullout in Afghanistan, what encouragement to Russia and China, and Iran is this creating? Trump was nasty, insulting, but he was seen as a kickass, so adversaries stayed quiet. Now we have leaders who are weak, encouraging foreign adventures by our adversaries. The west better pull together and start acting strong or we're in for bad times.
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Trump was nasty, insulting, but he was seen as a kickass, so adversaries stayed quiet. Now we have leaders who are weak, encouraging foreign adventures by our adversaries. The west better pull together and start acting strong or we're in for bad times.
I think, a better description for Trump would be that he was crazy, incompetent and mentally unstable. Sometimes it worked.
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Why does Canada have to call an emergency? Aren't there laws against blocking traffic that would allow police to remove obstructions and arrest the perps? How am I going to get a car for the one my lease just ran out?
Trucker protests: Ontario calls state of emergency
Ontario has declared a state of emergency in response to two weeks of protests against Covid restrictions.
The order came as demonstrations continue to shut down parts of Ottawa and the Ambassador Bridge, a vital US-Canada trade link.
Blocking crucial infrastructure would be made "illegal" under the order, said Premier Doug Ford.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60352980
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A good example how 1500 "freedom minded" truckers affected negatively thousands of companies and millions of people in at least two countries.
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A good example how 1500 "freedom minded" truckers affected negatively thousands of companies and millions of people in at least two countries.
So why aren't the Canadian police and government doing something? Aren't there laws against blockading traffic? Canadians may complain about American cops and American laws being tough. But at least cops know how to clear the streets and do it legally.
PS: I need my car?
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Aren't there laws against blocking traffic that would allow police to remove obstructions and arrest the perps?
They did wait too long to remove the trucks. It's now impossible, difficult for a variety of reasons. Whether you choose to blame the police or the politicians is up to you.
Meanwhile, thanks for your support, America:
https://globalnews.ca/news/8609284/ottawa-trucker-convoy-airport-disruptions/
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They did wait too long to remove the trucks. It's now impossible for a variety of reasons. Whether you choose to blame the police or the politicians is up to you.
Meanwhile, thanks for your support, America:
https://globalnews.ca/news/8609284/ottawa-trucker-convoy-airport-disruptions/
Only Deplorables would come up with an idea to call and misuse the 911 emergency numbers and jeopardize lives of people who really need help and assistance.
Also hurting and inconveniencing majority of law-abiding truckers.
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Only Deplorables would come up with an idea to call and misuse the 911 emergency numbers and jeopardize lives of people who really need help and assistance.
Also hurting and inconveniencing majority of law-abiding truckers.
Absolutely. Only Deplorables.
Note that this action would have taken organization, planning and communication. Those functions are undoubtedly a matter of record.
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What's interesting is that it's Canadian truckers doing this not Americans. With all the finger-pointing at American independent actions and anti-vaxers, it turns out Canadians are the ones acting like delinquents. I'm disappointed in the lack of civility from our northern neighbors. It's like the world's been turned upside down. :o
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What's interesting is that it's Canadian truckers doing this not Americans.
This will fall on one man's deaf ears (start with the facts):
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/11/what-u-s-truckers-really-want-a-place-to-sleep-00008188
Start with the facts. Truck drivers in the U.S. already don’t have to wear masks, and the vast majority are not required to be vaccinated against Covid, unless they plan to cross an international border.
The U.S. Teamsters union issued a statement Thursday saying it “denounces” the blockade, adding: “Our members are some of the hardest workers in the country and are being prevented from doing their jobs.”
I'm disappointed in the lack of civility from our northern neighbors.
I'm disappointed in the lack of intelligence from their southern neighbors posting here.
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What's interesting is that it's Canadian truckers doing this not Americans. With all the finger-pointing at American independent actions and anti-vaxers, it turns out Canadians are the ones acting like delinquents. I'm disappointed in the lack of civility from our northern neighbors. It's like the world's been turned upside down. :o
Ottawa police said Thursday that a significant amount of calls that “almost jammed” the city’s 911 phone system on Wednesday evening came from U.S. addresses.
“They were coming in from the United States,” Ottawa police chief Peter Sloly said in a news conference Thursday. “Not exclusively, but significantly from United States addresses.”
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Ottawa police said Thursday that a significant amount of calls that “almost jammed” the city’s 911 phone system on Wednesday evening came from U.S. addresses.
“They were coming in from the United States,” Ottawa police chief Peter Sloly said in a news conference Thursday. “Not exclusively, but significantly from United States addresses.”
The nuisance 9-11 calls from the US are terrible and should be prosecuted. But what does that have to do with Canadian truckers and Canada's inability to open their roads?
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The nuisance 9-11 calls from the US are terrible and should be prosecuted. But what does that have to do with Canadian truckers and Canada's inability to open their roads?
I guess that the callers are professional troublemakers in USA jumping at any opportunity to disrupt orderly situations in USA and Canada. One of these situations is the Canadian Truckers Protest. Or do you think that the callers were Russian hackers?
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I guess that the callers are professional troublemakers in USA jumping at any opportunity to disrupt orderly situations in USA and Canada. One of these situations is the Canadian Truckers Protest. Or do you think that the callers were Russian hackers?
You're blaming the 9-11 calls for "disrupting the orderly situation in Canada" and not the truckers blocking traffic which started weeks ago. 9-11 calls have nothing to do with feckless Canadian leaders who don't know how to clear the roads of trucks blocking traffic and arresting the perpetrators. That's an excuse and diversion. It shows a total lack of leadership. All it's going to do is encourage more civil disobedience.
It reminds me of 1/6 and the BLM riots that were allowed to go on without police stopping them. It led to the attack on the Capitol and rioting and looting in the BLM demonstrations.
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You're blaming the 9-11 calls for "disrupting the orderly situation in Canada" and not the truckers blocking traffic which started weeks ago. 9-11 calls have nothing to do with feckless Canadian leaders who don't know how to clear the roads of trucks blocking traffic and arresting the perpetrators. That's an excuse and diversion. It shows a total lack of leadership. All it's going to do is encourage more civil disobedience.
I guess you missed the headline in the article link posted by Peter. But I agree with you that the current situation will encourage more copycats and disobedience.
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I guess you missed the headline in the article link posted by Peter. But I agree with you that the current situation will encourage more copycats and disobedience.
The headline I read said the 9-11 calls were coming from the USA. So what. That has nothing to do with truckers blocking roads and the total lack of leadership of Canadian politicians to get the trucks off the road. How hard is that to do? The mayor or whoever is in charge gives his police chief 24 hours to clear the bridge of trucks and arrest the truckers or he'll replace the chief. What are they waiting for? Eh?
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Of course, truckers ignored the courts. The whole thing is civil disobedience. The truckers knew they were breaking the law from the beginning. Nothing's changed for them. The courts can't move trucks. Only the police can do that. What are they waiting for?
Meanwhile, Russia and China are watching the western nations stumblebum around looking helpless while Russia has 160,000 troops at the Ukraine border and China buzzes Taiwan constantly with 30 and 40 fighter jets and bombers reminding the Taiwanese that they're coming. Iran is building nukes as quickly as they can and North Korea is testing ICBM's again while Biden is napping and wondering why his Depends pads cost so much.
Protesters defy injunction order, continue to occupy key U.S.-Canada bridge
WINDSOR, Ontario/WASHINGTON, Feb 11 (Reuters) - Protesters opposing pandemic restrictions were still occupying a vital Canada-U.S. trade corridor on Friday, hours after an injunction order to end the blockade that has disrupted North America's auto industry took effect.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has promised President Joe Biden quick action to end the crisis and earlier on Friday a Canadian judge ordered an end to the four-day-long blockade of the Ambassador Bridge, North America's busiest land border crossing.
That order came into effect at 7 p.m. Eastern Time (0000 GMT) but more two than hours after the deadline, about 200 protesters, including children, milled around the entrance to the bridge, waving Canadian flags, while others set off fireworks.
Police, who started to gather in a parking lot a few blocks away from the protesters, began handing out pamphlets that outlined penalties under Ontario's emergency order, which takes effect at midnight.
Trudeau earlier told reporters that no action was off the table.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-protests-enter-third-week-sophisticated-demonstrators-dig-2022-02-11/
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Here's picture of the Canadian trucker girlfriend of the American bison guy who broke into the US capitol.
A protester with a Canadian flag painted in her hair walks the line as demonstrators continue to protest the Covid-19 mandates.
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The Worldometer 7-day avg of daily deaths in the US is still stubbornly above 2000.
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An aside, I've lost the links now but a friend sent me some Twitter postings from Ottawa area sex workers offering "freedom convoy" discounts. I'm not on Twitter and don't follow any posters there, and I hadn't realized how much it's used by those in that line of work. Must be the ones who couldn't make it to the Super Bowl.
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A year or two ago, the Alberta government set up what they called a "War Room" to monitor out-of-country funding of activities that impeded important economic sectors. At the time, I think they were worried about groups like Green Peace funding local Alberta environmental activists. I presume they had a problem with foreign money helping those groups, odd since foreign investment in general does not bother them. I wonder if the War Room can (or is) being used to track foreign funding of the trucker disruptions. If the investigative infrastructure is there, might as well use it. OTOH, after the initial announcement, I have never heard another thing about the place. Does anyone know if it's still active?
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An aside, I've lost the links now but a friend sent me some Twitter postings from Ottawa area sex workers offering "freedom convoy" discounts. I'm not on Twitter and don't follow any posters there, and I hadn't realized how much it's used by those in that line of work. Must be the ones who couldn't make it to the Super Bowl.
Speaking of the Super Bowl reminds me of an ad going around on Twitter.
SUPER BOWL TICKETS
Our neighbor's son has 2 Super Bowl tickets, at the 40 yd line. box seats. He paid $2500/ea but didn't realize last year when he bought them that it was going to be on the same day as his wedding. Probably because of the extra game this yr. If you know of someone who's interested, he's looking for someone to take his place ... It's at Calvary Church in San Clemente at 3pm. The bride's name is Nicole. She's 5'4", about 115 lbs., good cook too. She'll be the one in the white dress.
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A year or two ago, the Alberta government set up what they called a "War Room" to monitor out-of-country funding of activities that impeded important economic sectors. At the time, I think they were worried about groups like Green Peace funding local Alberta environmental activists. I presume they had a problem with foreign money helping those groups, odd since foreign investment in general does not bother them. I wonder if the War Room can (or is) being used to track foreign funding of the trucker disruptions. If the investigative infrastructure is there, might as well use it. OTOH, after the initial announcement, I have never heard another thing about the place. Does anyone know if it's still active?
I don't know about funding for the blockade from America, but our businesses are really in a quandary. Between not being able to offload ships in California to the blocking of supplies from Canada, we Americans might have to start making our own stuff soon. I just checked the news and blockade continues despite the injunction against it. Well, what did they expect? Meanwhile, the cops are still trying to figure out what to do. Where's the RCMP when you need them?
US business groups called on the Canadian government to 'swiftly' resolve the trucker-led protest at the border that's wreaking even more havoc on supply chains
Things are backed up – again.
But it's not at the port of Long Beach, California, this time — it's at several border crossings between the US and Canada, where trucker-inspired protests against COVID restrictions and vaccine mandates have partially blocked the flow of traffic and goods.
In response, three major US business advocacy groups have now raised concerns.
The blockages are "adding to the significant supply chain strains on manufacturers and other businesses in the United States," per a statement released jointly by the US Chamber of Commerce, Business Roundtable and National Association of Manufacturers on Thursday, according to CNN.
https://www.businessinsider.com/business-groups-call-for-canadian-government-to-resolve-trucker-protest-2022-2?nr_email_referer=1&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Business_Insider_select&pt=385758&ct=Sailthru_BI_Newsletters&mt=8&utm_campaign=Insider%20Select%202022-02-12&utm_term=INSIDER%20SELECT%20-%20ENGAGED%2C%20ACTIVE%2C%20PASSIVE%2C%20DISENGAGED%2C%20NEW
Hours after a court ordered demonstrators to stop blocking access to the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor, Ontario, protesters were still there late Friday night, but in lesser numbers. Police officers were standing by but had made no move to clear the area of demonstrators.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/11/world/canada-trucker-protest
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Most of this podcast is not germane but the first question and answer are very good and on point about where we are wrt Covid and what to do now. Maybe 10 min long.
https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/qa/ask-anything-19 (https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/qa/ask-anything-19)
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Biden is napping and wondering why his Depends pads cost so much.
Please stand by while we research possible nasty names to call Alan in response to this juvenile comment.
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Most of this podcast is not germane but the first question and answer are very good and on point about where we are wrt Covid and what to do now. Maybe 10 min long.
https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/qa/ask-anything-19 (https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/qa/ask-anything-19)
I listened to first 12 minutes. His concluding comments were to blame the right and Republicans for politicizing Covid. Of course, that has been done. But he failed to see the left and Demcorats were politicizing it as well and continue to do so. The anti-science approach by many Democrat governors and mayors and approving no masks when the CDC still recommends them shows that Demcorats were playing a political game before. I've complained about this for two years.
He also expressed concern that society has been fragmented and doesn't believe in "authorities" any longer. Well, what did he expect when the whole thing became politicized as much as many of our debates do today? It's just not only COvid. How about voting rules, climate, and taxes? I'm not sure what he added to the conversation other than to show some prejudice to one side of the conversation.
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Please stand by while we research possible nasty names to call Alan in response to this juvenile comment.
The rules here are we're not supposed to personally attack other LuLa posters. Making fun of Trump or Biden or other politicians to point out their foibles doesn't change that rule. We're supposed to show some respect for each other. I hope we all continue to do that.
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Please stand by while we research possible nasty names to call Alan in response to this juvenile comment.
There are many but my first choice is “moron”.
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We're supposed to show some respect for each other.
Respect has to be earned.
You lost that here years ago.
I'd respect you a bit more if you STFU and stopped posting utter rubbish and not only about politics and Covid but about photography and imaging, the focus of this web site. Case in point:
I edit in sRGB because I'm posting on the web which is sRGB and don't print.
Original prints are 300dpi
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136760.msg1194660#msg1194660
So often wrong but never in doubt; no respect for you dear!
I hope we all continue to do that.
This is from the fellow who lied by accusing others of calling him a liar.
"The only thing worse than a liar is a liar that's also a hypocrite! "-Tennessee Williams
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Of course, truckers ignored the courts. The whole thing is civil disobedience. The truckers knew they were breaking the law from the beginning. Nothing's changed for them. The courts can't move trucks. Only the police can do that. What are they waiting for?
Protesters defy injunction order, continue to occupy key U.S.-Canada bridge
WINDSOR, Ontario/WASHINGTON, Feb 11 (Reuters) - Protesters opposing pandemic restrictions were still occupying a vital Canada-U.S. trade corridor on Friday, hours after an injunction order to end the blockade that has disrupted North America's auto industry took effect.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has promised President Joe Biden quick action to end the crisis and earlier on Friday a Canadian judge ordered an end to the four-day-long blockade of the Ambassador Bridge, North America's busiest land border crossing.That order came into effect at 7 p.m. Eastern Time (0000 GMT) but more two than hours after the deadline, about 200 protesters, including children, milled around the entrance to the bridge, waving Canadian flags, while others set off fireworks.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-protests-enter-third-week-sophisticated-demonstrators-dig-2022-02-11/
Now, inspired by the Canadian truck protests, the American truckers head to Washington. Let's see how Biden reacts to "People's Convoy".
A group of American truckers began a cross-country drive from California to Washington on Wednesday to protest coronavirus restrictions, taking a cue from demonstrations that paralyzed Canada's capital city, Ottawa, for weeks.
More than two dozen 18-wheeler trucks, along with some 50 pickups and recreational vehicles, left Adelanto, California, about 80 miles (130 km) northeast of Los Angeles. The self-styled 'People's Convoy' is beginning an 11-day trek to the Beltway, a major highway encircling the U.S. capital, to demand an end to COVID-19 vaccine and mask requirements.
"This is for our freedoms, our human rights. Enough is enough," said Ron Coleman, 61, a trucker from Reno, Nevada, as he prepared to make the 2,500-mile (4,000-km) journey. Coleman, a trucker for 45 years, said the group was also pushing for the end to the emergency powers that U.S. politicians have used to enact pandemic-related restrictions.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-truckers-plan-pandemic-protest-inspired-by-canadian-counterparts-2022-02-23/
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Let's see how Biden reacts to "People's Convoy".
I rather doubt that Biden has—or, as president, by statute should have—any personal involvement in the preparations, although I'm sure he has been briefed on them. The District of Columbia police (who are responsible to the Washington, D.C., city government) and the Capitol Police (who are responsible to the U.S. Congress) have requested support in managing the demonstrations from the federal Department of Defense, which has agreed to deploy unarmed military "reserve" personnel to assist in traffic control (i.e., to prevent the demonstrators from blocking surface transportation) (https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Article/2943631/national-guard-to-back-law-enforcement-at-dc-demonstrations/) if any of them attempt to impede traffic into, out of, or within the city.
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Indeed. It will be very interesting to see the police response in America should a similar occupation to those in Canada appear.
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It will be very interesting to see the police response in America should a similar occupation to those in Canada appear.
Well, the closest precedent I can remember—one of the few virtues of being old—was the "tractorcade" protest by farmers in 1979. The protesters filled the National Mall with their vehicles (just across the street from where I was working at the time) and caused what I recall as relatively modest disruptions to rush-hour traffic. The city police mostly just let them alone, notwithstanding complaints from irritated commuters. The stalemate persisted until a big snowstorm hit the city and the overwhelmed Washington department of public works—we're not very good at handling snow around these parts—requested the farmers' assistance in digging out the city (https://siarchives.si.edu/blog/tractorcade):
Tides turned on President's Day weekend when a blizzard hit, covering the city in two feet of snow. The farmers, in possession of some of the only vehicles able to move, rose to the occasion and helped dig out DC. They plowed out hundreds of cars and aided stranded citizens. They transported doctors and nurses to hospitals, where the wives of AAM farmers helped cook and clean because regular staff was unable to get to work. Twenty-two inches and a whole lot of goodwill turned these agitators into heroes.
Washington has much more experience with protesters than it does with snow. Given the planned police presence and military reserve back-up, I'd be surprised if next month's protest turned into a repeat of the Canadian occupations—much less last year's attempted Capitol Building insurrection.
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I haven't paid much attention as mask mandates were being lifted here in Ontario and Quebec (probably other provinces too) but I noticed on Worldometer today that the 7-day moving avg of daily US deaths is hovering in the 250-300 range. Using a rough number of 275, that annualizes to about 100,000 deaths. That's higher than any of the usual things people worry about like gun-related deaths, automobile accident fatalities and really bad "normal flu" years. So far as I can tell around me, everyone is acting as if it's over but it doesn't really seem to be. That might be number low enough that everyone is comfortable with though.
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As of June 30, the US 7-day moving avg daily deaths from Covid is hovering around 250, which is still surprisingly high. It annualizes to 91,000 or so. The number seems to be plateauing at that level, not steadily dropping anyway, but I doubt we can read much into that yet. The decline from here on may be too slow to observe at weekly time frames.
The last time I looked at the reports, the Ottawa area seems to be hovering at 1 or 2 deaths per week. Some people still wear masks in grocery stores or similar places but in general masks are no longer commonplace. I can't make a comment about distancing because I always maintained distance from strangers as a matter of course.
I have to say one thing. I really miss some parts of lockdown, no daytime traffic, easier access to hiking/biking trails, etc. Some friends and I had many email discussions about how nice it would be to actually have a "day of rest" where most places were closed so we could enjoy some peace and quiet. When I go grocery shopping on weekday mornings, the traffic to-from the big box malls is an annoying as it ever was.
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I haven't paid much attention as mask mandates were being lifted here in Ontario and Quebec (probably other provinces too) but I noticed on Worldometer today that the 7-day moving avg of daily US deaths is hovering in the 250-300 range. Using a rough number of 275, that annualizes to about 100,000 deaths. That's higher than any of the usual things people worry about like gun-related deaths, automobile accident fatalities and really bad "normal flu" years. So far as I can tell around me, everyone is acting as if it's over but it doesn't really seem to be. That might be number low enough that everyone is comfortable with though.
The 250 death number is still high. But I can't seem to find data that explains who's dying that was available a year ago when it was bigger news. Maybe that's why they're not reporting it. If it's mainly people who have not been vaccinated and old, then most people are not going to be affected at all. So they're not concerned.
While I'm old and have co-morbidities and should be more careful, I like to believe my two original shots and two boosters are protecting me from anything serious even if I should contract it.
Have you been able to find the breakdown of who's dying by age and vaccination rates?
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The 250 death number is still high.
So much for knowledge:
So now that Covid is on the way out, we're left with the economic damage.
"Those who have knowledge, don't predict. Those who predict, don't have knowledge."-Lao Tzu
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The 250 death number is still high. But I can't seem to find data that explains who's dying that was available a year ago when it was bigger news. Maybe that's why they're not reporting it. If it's mainly people who have not been vaccinated and old, then most people are not going to be affected at all. So they're not concerned.
While I'm old and have co-morbidities and should be more careful, I like to believe my two original shots and two boosters are protecting me from anything serious even if I should contract it.
Have you been able to find the breakdown of who's dying by age and vaccination rates?
In Germany, the new cases are on increase. lthough Germany has only 1/4 of USA population, the new cases numbers are now the same in both countries.
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In Germany, the new cases are on increase. lthough Germany has only 1/4 of USA population, the new cases numbers are now the same in both countries.
I saw a news item about a 30% rise in infections in the UK in the last week (or two?). The emergency department of a small regional hospital about an hour west of Ottawa in Perth Ontario had to shut down for 5 days yesterday because of an outbreak.
As fewer people die every week the rest of us grow more confident that we can ignore the whole thing. That's more or less what happens with flu. Until someone you know dies, you don't pay attention. I think it's true to say that the newer Covid strains are less lethal, I hope that continues to be the case.
I'm not sure how reliably you can compare infection rates in different countries these days, no idea how or if the stats are collected in equivalent ways. I've only looked at daily death rates for months now, my feeling is that it is a more reliable number.
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From what I've been reading, the Omicron subvariants currently circulating in much of North America and Europe are not only extremely infectious, but they have evolved to circumvent antibodies from both vaccines and previous infections. And pandemic-weariness has prompted much of the population to stop wearing face masks indoors and practicing physical distancing. So apparently many people are getting infected for a second or even a third time. But since so much of the population in those parts of the world already has acquired a durable secondary immune response to the coronavirus, either through vaccination or prior infection, those who do get infected typically experience mild symptoms.
Of course, as the gross number of infections rises, there will inevitably be some increase in those who require hospitalization or who die—especially people who are old or who have other ailments that affect their ability to fight off the disease.
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The 7-day moving avg of daily deaths in the US has inched up over 300 again after plateauing in the low 200s for a week or so. In Montreal yesterday, 11 people died of Covid. I don't know the stats for Ontario but I can say that I see very few people wearing masks in stores and restaurants here in Ottawa and especially so on the Quebec side of the river.
I saw part of a story online yesterday about some major league baseball player objecting to Canada forcing him to put things in his body. I assume he was talking about vaccines. I didn't read the story very carefully mostly because I couldn't care less about whining millionaires. But if he was sent back at the border because he wasn't vaccinated, I say Great!, that's what border controls are for, to keep out undesirables. If you don't want to observe the laws of a country, then don't try to enter it. You don't have a "constitutional right" to travel to other countries.
If he had stepped on a nail, would he object to a tetanus shot?
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Hospitalizations and infections are up in eastern Ontario in our 7th wave, I'm not sure about the rest of the province. Ottawa is getting high readings in their sewage viral count analysis. It's not clear that we're seeing statistically significant increases in deaths though.
The 7-day moving average of daily US deaths is stubbornly hovering in the low 300s as of yesterday, which annualizes to about 100,000 per year. If that were consistently trending down I could understand why it's not attracting more attention. I suppose there is something called "Covid fatigue", which is a bit lame imo. I wonder if soldiers in combat get bored with enemy gunfire and start to ignore it. That's probably unfair, but I said it anyway.
But it could very well be that the majority of people who are now dying failed to take the minimum precautions, like getting vaccinated. If that's the case, people's sympathy will only go so far, which is totally understandable. I hope someone in public health is continuing to analyze the data. But I'm cynical and I've read the Michael Lewis books, so it's more likely that authorities are cutting funding to those public agencies, to avoid having any useful data for which they might be called to account. But that assumes that people are paying enough attention to even call someone to account, which I doubt. I know people will always die of something, but the numbers still seem high to me.
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But it could very well be that the majority of people who are now dying failed to take the minimum precautions, like getting vaccinated.
From what I've been reading, the deaths are mostly among (1) individuals with compromised immune systems, (2) those who are not vaccinated, (3) old patients (e.g., over 75 or 80), and (4) those with certain chronic diseases which make them more susceptible to respiratory infections. Of course, as the infection rate increases—and it's very high now because so many people are being infected multiple times—there is bound to be some increase in total deaths even if the death rate remains low.
Here in the States, we're still experiencing deaths from SARS-CoV-2 at an annualized rate of more than 150K. I gather most epidemiologists expect it to exceed 200K by the end of the year because of an autumn through winter surge. By contrast, we typically have 12K-52K deaths from influenza each year, many resulting from secondary pneumonia infections.
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Hospitalizations and infections are up in eastern Ontario in our 7th wave, I'm not sure about the rest of the province. Ottawa is getting high readings in their sewage viral count analysis. It's not clear that we're seeing statistically significant increases in deaths though.
The 7-day moving average of daily US deaths is stubbornly hovering in the low 300s as of yesterday, which annualizes to about 100,000 per year. If that were consistently trending down I could understand why it's not attracting more attention. I suppose there is something called "Covid fatigue", which is a bit lame imo. I wonder if soldiers in combat get bored with enemy gunfire and start to ignore it. That's probably unfair, but I said it anyway.
But it could very well be that the majority of people who are now dying failed to take the minimum precautions, like getting vaccinated. If that's the case, people's sympathy will only go so far, which is totally understandable. I hope someone in public health is continuing to analyze the data. But I'm cynical and I've read the Michael Lewis books, so it's more likely that authorities are cutting funding to those public agencies, to avoid having any useful data for which they might be called to account. But that assumes that people are paying enough attention to even call someone to account, which I doubt. I know people will always die of something, but the numbers still seem high to me.
In the previous two summers, the covid deaths in Canada were pretty much on the low end of statistics. This year, however, the July death numbers shot up to the highest levels of the chart from the beginning of the pandemic to the most recent data points. If the number of deaths will follow the historical trends, this would indicate much worse situation in the coming months.
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Two years ago, I was reading about people worldwide dying from covid, but none of the people I knew personally, reported such an incident.
This year, quite a few of my direct friends or their friends reported that they got covid. Today, I spoke with my nephew who told me that his 35 year old colleague returned from a vacation with covid, was taken to the hospital, and died there within a few days. Apparently, he had diabetes and the covid vaccine was not effective.
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It hasn't been mentioned in a while now but the USA's 7-day average daily deaths from Covid has been hovering around the 250 to 300 mark since April 2022 according to the Worldometer graphs https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/). So far, there doesn't appear to be an obvious steady decrease, looks more like a plateau. I arrived at the avg number by eyeballing the graph so it's a very crude approximation.
Using the lower 250 number, that annualized to just over 90,000, which I think still makes Covid a significant cause of death in the USA.
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Ah, the longer we move on, the more silly the statement appears:
So now that Covid is on the way out, we're left with the economic damage.
Todays NYT:
COVID-19 PANDEMIC
Experts eye new Omicron variant
Quickly spreading XBB.1.5 now accounts for nearly 28% of cases in U.S.
By Carl Zimmer
The New York Times
Three years into the pandemic, the
coronavirus continues to impress virus
experts with its swift evolution.
A young version, known as XBB.1.5,
has quickly been spreading in the
United States over the past few weeks.
As of Friday, the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention estimated that
it made up 72% of new cases in the
Northeast and 27.6% of cases across the
country.
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Todays NYT:
Carl Zimmer's article on this SARS-CoV-2 variant, and its probable descendants, is a thorough and very lucid piece of reporting—well worth reading in its entirety for anyone interested in the evolution of the coronavirus. I believe this link should work (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/07/science/covid-omicron-variants-xbb.html?unlocked_article_code=6-agFR6p_R69XRtieUFXoMXdMLYjp-S-n2d2RbBUDCZ6uM06DnoqJ3v8f3UgKE6UA4aBjKS7Bmf8QflNF8iytsc155Rap28fK5_CdZaPC48ssmXeH3OvBsXRWpTebTfz_qRw4m80WURAPdqwaaTwPcB2vApM0CX-T4O6Rib0k45kSiTPgalJSCmipdJgEQW-qyp_7SbCTL2dQgv25lPZ5mqGzab298TlWO_wjtrxaghusnEqSfYI6CZlMcy5RQCtkYCs5PYYIVlDSY7-bRyjSYp5X00Wx0KNPIrUf7eGxb5cWG9P6C_5M_fZ8ynX9uOxdGql0zo3UkoryQAxapm7-YolQSk&smid=share-url) for those of you who are not New York Times subscribers.