Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review  (Read 4458 times)

Dan Wells

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1044
GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« on: April 22, 2021, 11:18:14 pm »

Hello everyone
      I'm going to be talking with Fujifilm tomorrow (and I'll read the forum before I do), and the camera should be in my hands for several weeks starting in early May. What do people want to know about it?

I had the GFX 100 in for review when it first came out, and it was an ergonomic nightmare that produced amazing images. The 100S promises to be only modestly larger than most FF mirrorless bodies, and no larger than something like a D850 - probably much less of an ergonomic nightmare? The interface also looks much better than the original GFX 100.

I'm hoping to have the 50mm (the most compact lens of all), and another of the more compact lenses...

I'd love to know if there are specific things folks would like me to look for...

Dan



Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2021, 02:42:23 am »

Yes, the logic of the UI of the GFX100s is basically identical to that of a Nikon Z7 (except for the lens release button location that I find much more practical on the Nikon). Much better than that of the GFX100.

Cheers,
Bernard

jrp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 322
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2021, 05:27:39 am »

The main question is whether the extra lens / body bulk and weight bring enough benefits in terms of picture quality over a full frame mirrorless system. Or, more precisely, at what size of print do the benefits become apparent?
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2021, 09:06:32 am »

The main question is whether the extra lens / body bulk and weight bring enough benefits in terms of picture quality over a full frame mirrorless system. Or, more precisely, at what size of print do the benefits become apparent?

That’s a fair question that is also applicable to true MF backs in fact.

Overall my feeling is that the actual image quality gap doesn’t compensate for all the downsides for those looking for an all rounder.

It’s a niche product that will only be meaningful for a pretty narrow range of applications.

Cheers,
Bernard

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4391
    • Pieter Kers
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2021, 09:09:59 am »

The main question is whether the extra lens / body bulk and weight bring enough benefits in terms of picture quality over a full frame mirrorless system. Or, more precisely, at what size of print do the benefits become apparent?
That is not so difficult. It is the same sensor only larger than that of the Sony 7R-IV
If you start with a pixel perfect lens that all systems have;

It can be printed a factor 1.22 wider with the same quality as the Sony 7R-IV
if you like 200dpi that will be :
1.48M wide and 1,11m high for the Fuji or 1,22 meter wide and 0,81m high for the Sony.

I expect the reason for the 'low' price of the Fuji 102Mp is that Fuji knows there are 80MP FF camera's around the corner, so they want people to buy into the system now.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 09:17:46 am by kers »
Logged
Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu/la

Steve Hendrix

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1662
    • http://www.captureintegration.com/
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2021, 04:43:16 pm »

That’s a fair question that is also applicable to true MF backs in fact.

Overall my feeling is that the actual image quality gap doesn’t compensate for all the downsides for those looking for an all rounder.

It’s a niche product that will only be meaningful for a pretty narrow range of applications.

Cheers,
Bernard


I have sold Fuji GFX 100S systems to landscape photographers, studio product photographers, portrait photographers, and even a wedding photographer.

Thank goodness for niches.


Steve Hendrix/CI
Logged
Steve Hendrix • 404-543-8475 www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Alpa | Cambo | Sinar | Arca Swiss

alan_b

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 318
    • West Coast Architecture + Interiors Photographer
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2021, 10:38:42 pm »

How's the rear display/EVF for zooming in and checking critical focus?
Logged

SrMi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2021, 12:59:35 pm »

How's the rear display/EVF for zooming in and checking critical focus?
My main issue is that I need to save a full-sized JPG in order to zoom in completely. Otherwise, the resolutions of the rear LCD and EVF work fine.
Logged

larkis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 332
    • My photography blog
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2021, 11:18:22 am »

Could you ask them about the differences in weather sealing between the two bodies ? The S seems to be more suited for taking on longer treks but those also come with more extreme interactions with weather, longer exposure to moisture, etc. I have trekked in various remote mountain regions with my 645z (which did fine) but given that pentax seems to have given up I’m looking for a new system.

mecrox

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 206
    • My Online Portfolio
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2021, 09:12:31 am »

I'd be interested in a view of whether the camera is really hand-holdable take-anywhere or is actually a tripod and studio camera in disguise. And if it is take-anywhere, what's the view of the build quality and weather sealing? Practicality and flash and accessories would also be helpful. Thanks.
Logged
Mark @ Flickr

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4391
    • Pieter Kers
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2021, 10:18:35 am »

Just read the first impression of Diglloyd on the F100s. The EVF is not so nice, and certainly not compared to the new landmark EVF built in the Sony Alpha1.
That made me realize that one of the nice things of medium format has always been the excellent large optical viewfinder.
With mirrorless bodies the natural correlation between sensor format and EVF-quality is lost.
Good news for the small format sensors that can have a EVF as good as a medium format camera, that was not possible before.
I think the quality of the EVF is very important, practically, but also in liking a camera; although it says nothing about the image quality.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 02:17:47 pm by kers »
Logged
Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu/la

Harold Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2021, 02:05:30 pm »

Although perhaps a bit off topic, two or three T/S lenses would make the system very useable for architectural photographers who require high res prints. A 21mm, 30mm and maybe a 45mm would do the trick.
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2021, 09:42:05 pm »


I have sold Fuji GFX 100S systems to landscape photographers, studio product photographers, portrait photographers, and even a wedding photographer.

Thank goodness for niches.

The GFX100s has appealing specs and I am not surprised that photographers from various disciplines are attracted.

Whether the reality of the performance matches the hype for these various categories is IMHO a different topic.

For portrait I personally prefer the eye AF of my Z7II if I am after a limited DoF look or the great viewfinder, integrated Profoto controller and ease of focus of my P1 XF in the studio if I use f5.6/f8. But it's true that the skin tones of the Fuji are nice.

Cheers,
Bernard

Dan Wells

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1044
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2021, 02:55:16 pm »

I'll CERTAINLY ask the weather sealing question... Making 100 MP medium format that mobile isn't meaningful if it won't survive the rigors of serious outdoor use.

Tilt/shift lenses are also very important for close to the car landscape on a heavy tripod. I wouldn't carry the Mighty Robus, my 7 lb monster tripod (I once sat on the thing without damage) backpacking for obvious reasons, but working at most a mile or two from a vehicle, I probably WOULD have it, and t/s lenses would add another degree of large-format flexibility. If Fujifilm goes that way, they'd be the first company to introduce a dedicated mirrorless t/s lens (although both Canon and Nikon SLR lenses are compatible with adapters).

We'll see how much the very high resolution matters - I intend to compare prints against the Z7 and A7r IV (both of which are in my permanent collection), both at large sizes and using my Canon PRO-2000's double-resolution "600 dpi" mode (I'm not sure if it's a true 600 dpi or some trick that takes 600 dpi input and produces somewhat higher resolution output). When I've used the double-resolution mode in other tests, it hasn't made a huge difference (other than on some very old printers where it was directly connected to other quality features) - but this camera is 600 dpi NATIVE at 16x20"! Will it make a medium-size print that has unusual micro-detail?

My suspicion going in is that, if there's an effect, it'll be right on the edge of vision - the way you can't quite define WHY a print from 8x10" film looks different, but it does. I've had a chance to stand very close to a large original print of Ansel Adams' Clearing Winter Storm (which I'm almost sure is an 8x10" negative), and there's something about it that even a very good mechanical reproduction (a fancy art poster produced from a drum scan of an original print) of the same image doesn't capture. I suspect it's partially in the dynamic range of the silver gelatin print, but also partially in some micro-detail that the huge piece of film captured that even the very fine line screen on the press couldn't reproduce. I'm not sure if inkjet printing can capture that micro-detail beyond 300 dpi, but this is the camera to bring it out if it's there...

The full-size JPEG thing seems like it's probably a bug, but it's unfortunately a common one - many cameras do that to you (and shooting raw+ jpeg on high-res bodies is not a nice thing to do to your memory cards - but remember that this thing is operating in a range where, only a few years ago, you got TWO shots per film holder!)...

What's an all-rounder, anyway? This is pretty clearly the worst commonly available camera in the world for sports, and not much better for wildlife. It just may be the best for landscape, architecture and some other things...  I don't think there's any question that a Z7/ A7r IV/EOS-R5 is more versatile (and darned good at the things the Fujifilm excels at). The question is whether the extra quality in certain applications is worth the inconvenience (unless someone ONLY works in a few disciplines, this won't be an only camera, but one of a couple of systems in a photographer's bag).

DPReview (usual caveats) had one especially interesting finding in their review... The 100S has about a 2/3 stop DR advantage over the usual Sony-sensored FF suspects at ISO 100 (makes a lot of sense - it has about 1 2/3 times the sensor area). The other camera that has about a 2/3 stop DR advantage over the usual is one of the low-ISO capable Nikons (at ISO 64). Again, this makes sense mathematically - but it's an interesting way to think about it. This is perhaps a lot like a Z7 at its lowest ISO, but with a lot of extra resolution.

In my conversation with Fujifilm's technical expert on the GFX, two very interesting questions/observations came up. One is that, in Fujifilm's opinion (and I'll certainly test this, but it's an interesting benchmark of what to look for), the 100 MP sensor is about as big a jump over high-res FF as high-res FF is over really good APS-C (all else being equal). Mathematically, that makes sense. It's about 1 2/3x the sensor area, and a little over twice the resolution (compared to a Z7 or EOS-R5, the A7r IV is somewhat higher from a resolution standpoint). The jump from an X-T4 to a Z7 is a little more than twice the sensor area and about 1.8x the resolution, so it's the same order of magnitude.

The second question, to which none of us knew the answer, is how inkjet dot gain affects the prints at really high resolution? This may have a lot to do with how well 600 dpi mode works. I know where I can find a LightJet (which has no dot gain), and that'll certainly be part of the test... Not sure the LightJet can keep up with modern 12-color inkjet in terms of color and dynamic range, but the "no dot gain" element is interesting. This may reveal differences among inkjet print heads that we haven't had the resolution to see before, too.

I'll forward the weather sealing and tilt/shift questions to Fujifilm today - I should have the camera in hand the end of next week!

Dan
Logged

narikin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1376
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2021, 11:06:27 am »

The main question is whether the extra lens / body bulk and weight bring enough benefits in terms of picture quality over a full frame mirrorless system.

Valid point for many people. Weight/size of 100S body is not so different, but of course the lenses go up a notch in weight/ size, and have fewer 3rd party options, compared  e.g. to Sony/Canon with Sigma. Bigger/ heavier lenses = slower AF tracking etc.

other points (I run Fuji and Sony and Phase systems):

Fuji lenses are very good, but not at the extraordinary level FF lenses have reached recently. Am waiting/hoping for a 3rd party manufacturer to support this - please Sigma... bring your innovations to G mount. Hopefully the huge sales hit the 100S has been will be a tipping point.
(e.g the pixel shift feature is great, but need better lenses to do it justice. Only the 110mm is really up to that in Fuji range at present)

AF works well, decent face tracking, but nowhere near the levels of Sony and Canon. If you're shooting action, or models on the move, you need to stick with latest gen FF. If you're not, then just be happy you have wide on chip AF. That's fantastic compared to Phase One.

Big files - not just good for large prints, but also for cropping in. Did a major shoot recently where I could pull just one model out of a group and have perfect sharp file without softness or upsampling. Size matters.

100S vs original 100 - yes the GFX100 body was too big with weird design ergonomics, but those aside, it is much better for verticals (hello, magazine pages) where you have the vertical grip w duplicate buttons. There will not be a 'vertical grip' for 100S apparently. Also better EVF is a boon. Double batteries useful too.  The original GFX100 still has its purpose/ needs, but I expect a rebate offer will arrive soon, dropping it to $8000 or so.

Shooting landscape? still life? architecture? tilt shift? printing big? - well Phase One IQ4-150 MF is still king here, if you can afford it. The base ISO output and color for ultimate repro is a level above Fuji/Sony/Canon.  But at near $40,000, so it should be. The XF is a dinosaur. The XT is fun but a crazy price, although price is often not the problem for top level working pros and/or wealthy amateurs.

Random thoughts.




Logged

alan_b

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 318
    • West Coast Architecture + Interiors Photographer
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2021, 03:02:21 pm »

My main issue is that I need to save a full-sized JPG in order to zoom in completely. Otherwise, the resolutions of the rear LCD and EVF work fine.

Thanks.  I was wondering if Raw+JPG was still a requirement to get a fully detailed focus check.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 06:36:40 pm by alan_b »
Logged

photodan19

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2021, 08:05:59 pm »

...but this camera is 600 dpi NATIVE at 16x20"! Will it make a medium-size print that has unusual micro-detail? ... My suspicion going in is that, if there's an effect, it'll be right on the edge of vision ... I've had a chance to stand very close to a large original print of Ansel Adams' Clearing Winter Storm (which I'm almost sure is an 8x10" negative), and there's something about it that even a very good mechanical reproduction (a fancy art poster produced from a drum scan of an original print) of the same image doesn't capture. ... I'm not sure if inkjet printing can capture that micro-detail beyond 300 dpi, but this is the camera to bring it out if it's there...
... Not sure the LightJet can keep up with modern 12-color inkjet in terms of color and dynamic range, but the "no dot gain" element is interesting. 
Dan

I had a similar experience when looking at some Ansel Adams' prints, as well as color prints from 8x10" negs made by Richard Misrach and others, and prints from my 8x10 negs from years ago (except my photos were artistically pathetic by comparison :-).  In addition to making inkjet prints in 600dpi mode, you may want to consider some comparisons using digital C prints on Fuji Maxima Matte HD prints at Bay Photo. HD means high res -maybe around 400 ppi, and matte instead of glossy because glossy is way too shiny and glaring, whereas the Maxima Matte has a nice sheen to it and is more directly comparable to analog prints made on N surface paper.  Prints done "HD" vs plain Fuji Maxima Matte do show significantly more detail, and have a little more detail than the commercial inkjet prints I've had done. 

I think you'll find that when a large print is viewed from a couple feet away the inkjet prints will look better, but when viewed with "nose-to-print" you'll see a smoothness and detail that is superior to the usual inkjet prints (not sure about 600ppi ones, as I don't think I've ever seen any). Prints on the HD paper will likely make seeing resolution differences between formats more apparent.

I think that the difficult part will be to shoot and software-process the 100S vs FF photos to be as close as possible in white balance, tint, shadows, highlights, sharpness, etc. My own tests done with a Pentax 645Z (55mm and 75mm lenses) and later with a GFX100 (45, 50, 63mm lenses) as compared to Sony A7RIV (with Voigtlander 50/2 apo, etc.) showed me that although the lenses I used on the Sony were a little sharper than the GF lenses, and a lot sharper than the Pentax 55mm), that the end result print quality from the larger format cameras were, for me at least, superior, even in 16x20s when viewed from a normal distance - something about the color quality and tonality.  But my own tests were not scientific and maybe yours will be more exact, and provable so-to-speak, and who knows -  maybe you'll reach a different conclusion.

Of course the IQ of FF vs. the 44mm format cameras (as I prefer to call them) is one thing, and there are myriad other factors to consider about the 100S. I've now have that camera and like it, overall. Things to look at are how accurate and consistent is AF-S vs manual focus. This varies by lens used, and I found that taking about four shots using the smallest spot AF is needed to guarantee getting the most accurate focus. But manual focus is not perfect either even using the highest magnification in the EVF. I was not successful in using focus peaking (probably due to my lack of experience with it).  I never was that particular when I shot FF, so I don't know how it compares, but that is definitely one area to be careful about.

Just my 2 cents anyway. Looking forward to your future article!

PhotoDan
Logged

Benny Profane

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 357
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2021, 10:25:47 am »


Big files - not just good for large prints, but also for cropping in. Did a major shoot recently where I could pull just one model out of a group and have perfect sharp file without softness or upsampling. Size matters.



Yup.

But that thing is a beast compared to my Fuji Xt4 and lenses for carrying around all day.
Logged

MN

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2021, 11:38:55 am »

"But that thing is a beast compared to my Fuji Xt4 and lenses for carrying around all day."

Would be really interesting to see an unbiased and objective comparison between Fujifilm X and Fujifilm GFX series cameras. (Same sensor generation)

At which enlargement could a sophisticated viewer tell them apart?

At which desired enlargement size would the GFX series be the better choice?

What are the bulk and weight differences?
Logged

Joe Towner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1365
Re: GFX 100S coming to LuLa for review
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2021, 03:09:06 pm »

"But that thing is a beast compared to my Fuji Xt4 and lenses for carrying around all day."

Would be really interesting to see an unbiased and objective comparison between Fujifilm X and Fujifilm GFX series cameras. (Same sensor generation)

At which enlargement could a sophisticated viewer tell them apart?

At which desired enlargement size would the GFX series be the better choice?

What are the bulk and weight differences?

Why? The comparison is that they're two distinct products who have different roles for different users.  If you need optical reach, you grab a X body, if you need to go larger than 24x36 you grab the GFX.  If you don't want to carry around the weight of the 100s & lenses, then you grab the X. 

It's like comparing a Vespa & a Ducati - they're both 2 wheeled motorcycles, both will get you there, but there's a cost & performance difference.
Logged
t: @PNWMF
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up