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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 107056 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #200 on: March 04, 2021, 02:48:22 pm »

You know what they say - if you're not the client, you're the product.
We're the product I'd say and the advertisers who pay the website owner are the clients.  If it weren't for our posts, there would be no forum.  Of course, every website is different.  Cable channels collect from the viewer and the advertisers although, in the old days of broadcast TV before cable, the programs were free.   The stations made all their money from the advertisers.   

JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #201 on: March 04, 2021, 02:52:34 pm »

Smiling may be one aspect of humanity, but it's not the only one. Protecting other people from disease and/or making them feel comfortable when they are around you are aspects of humanity as well. Maybe wearing a mask during a pandemic is more a sign of your humanity than smiling at people. At least it is something to think about.

There is a very big difference between making someone feel comfortable over legitimate concerns vs. non-legitimate, something that I must admit appears that the entirety of the left no longer understands. 

As an example, if I am in a senior living center, which I often am nowadays, wearing a mask to make the residents feel comfortable would be legitimate since they are the ones most as risk of dying from Covid.  I may not agree that the mask does anything, but in this situation, I can have sympathy (which is not empathy) for this concern.  If I am dining in a restaurant where all of the staff and patrons are under 50, as was the case last night when we dined out, wearing a mask is not a legitimate concern since no one there is of a high enough risk of dying from C-19 for it to be one, and I am not one to give into lunacy just because everyone else is. 

We do not stop driving just because someone on the block is concerned about dying in a car accident, even though they are 30 times more likely then to die from C-19, yet we are suppose to change the entire way we live over something that is a lot less dangerous then driving. 

This idea that we must sooth anyone over any concern while not only not taking the time to see if the concern is warranted, but insisting that if you even consider this notion then there is something morally wrong with you, is ridiculous.  It is what leads some to make such stupid comments like intent does not matter or insist that micro-aggressions are ruining society even if the person does not realize he/she is engaging in them. 

This is nothing more then overly empathetic persons giving too much into their feelings just so they can say that they are morally good while throwing their logic out the window.   In the end though, no matter how morally supreme you think you are, not following logic and reason will end hurting the people you are trying to help more then to be empathetically defunct yet logically sound. 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 02:57:32 pm by JoeKitchen »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #202 on: March 04, 2021, 03:12:50 pm »

As an example, if I am in a senior living center, which I often am nowadays, wearing a mask to make the residents feel comfortable would be legitimate since they are the ones most as risk of dying from Covid.  I may not agree that the mask does anything, but in this situation, I can have sympathy (which is not empathy) for this concern.  If I am dining in a restaurant where all of the staff and patrons are under 50, as was the case last night when we dined out, wearing a mask is not a legitimate concern since no one there is of a high enough risk of dying from C-19 for it to be one, and I am not one to give into lunacy just because everyone else is. 

The situation is not as rosy as it seems at the first glance. 20% of the covid deaths in USA have been among people younger than 65 years. That's over 106,000 people who died before reaching their retirement age. In addition, long term effects of covid have been observed in 10% of the people who survived covid. That's another 900,000 people who will have to live with compromised health for the rest of their lives.

EDIT: Today it was reported that there were 28.7M cases (instead of 9M). If 10% of those survivors experience long term lasting covid effects, that would translate to 2.98M people (instead of 900,000) as reported earlier.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 04:53:20 pm by LesPalenik »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #203 on: March 04, 2021, 03:28:24 pm »

The situation is not as rosy as it seems at the first glance. 20% of the covid deaths in USA have been among people younger than 65 years. That's over 106,000 people who died before reaching their retirement age. In addition, long term effects of covid have been observed in 10% of the people who survived covid. That's another 900,000 people who will have to live with compromised health for the rest of their lives.
People who go out to restaurants know the chances they are taking.  I wouldn't go.  But there are others who would.  At some point, people are getting out.  More and more states are opening up as they are in other countries.  The rates for infection and death have gone down probably where they're again matching the common flu.  We don't shut down for it.  Also, if people who have had their shots go to restaurants, it has little risk.  Unless the food is bad. 

jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #204 on: March 04, 2021, 03:34:20 pm »

About 40k people die per year in car accidents in the US. Maybe if car crashes were infectious the comparison to covid would be closer.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #205 on: March 04, 2021, 03:36:01 pm »

People who go out to restaurants know the chances they are taking.  I wouldn't go.  But there are others who would.  At some point, people are getting out.  More and more states are opening up as they are in other countries.  The rates for infection and death have gone down probably where they're again matching the common flu.  We don't shut down for it.  Also, if people who have had their shots go to restaurants, it has little risk.  Unless the food is bad.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #206 on: March 04, 2021, 03:39:07 pm »

About 40k people die per year in car accidents in the US. Maybe if car crashes were infectious the comparison to covid would be closer.
Who's post were you referring to? Although there are 40K deaths, no one stops driving because of it.

Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #207 on: March 04, 2021, 03:39:33 pm »

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
What's wrong, wrong, wrong?

jeremyrh

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #208 on: March 04, 2021, 04:04:12 pm »

Who's post were you referring to? Although there are 40K deaths, no one stops driving because of it.

Of course they do - even though the driving test in the US is very easy.
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faberryman

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #209 on: March 04, 2021, 04:26:00 pm »

Engaging in empathy while making policies decisions often puts you in a situation where you will make concessions at the expense of others whom are not willing to do so, or even asked.  Sometimes, you make concessions at the expense of those you are trying to help, but your empathy does not allow you to see it.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes a lot of things, sometimes not so much. Empathy is just a tool in the toolbox.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 04:52:55 pm by faberryman »
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faberryman

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #210 on: March 04, 2021, 04:28:16 pm »

Who's post were you referring to? Although there are 40K deaths, no one stops driving because of it.

I was out driving today and noticed that it might be better for all of us if some people weren't driving. I am not sure if they were actually driving. The car was moving in a straight direction, more or less, but they appeared to be texting or reading emails or something.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #211 on: March 04, 2021, 04:38:11 pm »

The situation is not as rosy as it seems at the first glance. 20% of the covid deaths in USA have been among people younger than 65 years....

Ah, lies, damn lieas, and statistics! While technically correct (the 20% claim), it not as rosy as it seems. Only 7% of the fatalities are younger than 55. The difference between your (65) and my number (55), is just 10 years, yet it accounts for 12% of fatalities.

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #212 on: March 04, 2021, 05:07:25 pm »

I was out driving today and noticed that it might be better for all of us if some people weren't driving. I am not sure if they were actually driving. The car was moving in a straight direction, more or less, but they appeared to be texting or reading emails or something.

Was it a Tesla car? The capabilities of their Autopilot or FSD modes are incredible and apparently very safe. Driving on Autopilot may be in some situations safer than driving manually by some folks. Last week an aquaintance of mine fell asleep while driving at night on a city street, and his car jumped on the traffic island in the middle of the street. He took down a couple of the metal posts with traffic signs, and ruined his left front bumper wheel housing, but fortunately that woke him up so he didn't get onto the oncoming lanes on the other side of the street.   
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #213 on: March 04, 2021, 05:32:12 pm »

Ah, lies, damn lieas, and statistics! While technically correct (the 20% claim), it not as rosy as it seems. Only 7% of the fatalities are younger than 55. The difference between your (65) and my number (55), is just 10 years, yet it accounts for 12% of fatalities.

Yes, and only 5% are younger than 50. On the other hand, about ten times more deaths were recorded for all patients under the age of 75 years. I read somewhere that these days 75 years is the new 50. So, including all real and new 50's the death stats would approach 50% of the total toll.

Hard to imagine those numbers. You wouldn't believe but only a year ago some people thought that the total count of covid deaths would never exceed 50,000. Today, the actual toll is 10X of that estimate and by end of 2021 it may approach 15X or even 20X.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #214 on: March 04, 2021, 06:00:27 pm »

Statistics may count people, however, people are not statistics. They are people with family and friends that worry or mourn when they become included in some statistics.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #215 on: March 04, 2021, 06:13:48 pm »

Ah, lies, damn lieas, and statistics! While technically correct (the 20% claim), it not as rosy as it seems. Only 7% of the fatalities are younger than 55. The difference between your (65) and my number (55), is just 10 years, yet it accounts for 12% of fatalities.

7% of 500,000 is 35,000, not like it's negligible.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #216 on: March 04, 2021, 07:07:19 pm »

7% of 500,000 is 35,000, not like it's negligible.

7% is 7%.

faberryman

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #217 on: March 04, 2021, 07:11:22 pm »

7% is 7%.

You must have been reading up on your Wittgenstein.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #218 on: March 04, 2021, 07:11:52 pm »

Yes, and only 5% are younger than 50. On the other hand, about ten times more deaths were recorded for all patients under the age of 75 years.

What's the rate for those under 140?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #219 on: March 04, 2021, 07:22:08 pm »

7% of 500,000 is 35,000, not like it's negligible.

Now, saying that 7% of fatalities from C19 are younger than 55, doesn’t mean that 7% of those younger than 55 will die from C19.

To calculate that chance, we need the population of those younger than 55, and that is approximately 220 million. So, 35,000 in 220 million is 0.016 percent. And THAT is negligible.
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