Update re SC P9570 (P9500 in Europe)

[Mick Sang]

We installed this printer in our downtown studio in late March. Since then, we have encountered several intermittent issues with both the printer and Epson Media Installer. For both we received either bad advice or no help whatsoever from Epson Tech Reps. When we had been fortunate enough to print without interference by these glitches, which was not often, the results were excellent. So, we had no intention on giving up on this printer until all avenues had been exhausted. That said, we are fortunate to have 4 other wide format Epson printers on which to print the work that we were unable to run on the 9570 when the issues were rampant. If the 9570 had been our only printer, our situation would have become very dire very fast.

Today, I believe we found the major cause of many of the software related issues. From the start, with the guidance and support of Epson, the printer has been connected directly to its controlling MAC via an ethernet cable due to its physical distance from that Mac and only a wireless network being available. The MAC allows for this type of direct connection with IP protocol. No crossover cable is required. While this method of connecting the two did work in terms of printing to the printer, it was apparently the cause of serious software related issues such as the repeated corruption of the driver upon every attempt to create custom media using Epson Media Installer and the intermittent ability of the MAC to read that custom media which would then suddenly not be read. Other features would also work one day but not the next. We had reset the printer, the printing system on the Mac, reinstalled the driver, firmware and Epson folder more times than I care to remember.

This morning, we decided to disconnect the printer, reinstall the driver again and connect the printer by a 25 foot long USB cable strung across the floor so as to reach the printer. While we had to make slight changes to each custom media so that they could be re-saved and re-registered to the printer, every one of them registered properly and was read by the printer and Mac perfectly. Also, Epson Media Installer was opened, changes made, quit and relaunched several times without any noticeable driver corruption or problem of any kind. This was the first time we have seen this printer work flawlessly since late March. So, we have ordered an active 32 foot USB cable. Our longest cable was only about 5 feet short.

We discovered this connection related issue through failed attempts to update the firmware via that direct ethernet connection. As soon as we connected the printer by USB cable, we were able to update firmware. So, finally a lightbulb ignited. It took far too long for us to put 2 and 2 together to apply that finding to these other issues. Assumptions, frustrations and distractions clouded the mind. But, better late than never.

So, fingers crossed, we may finally be on a path to really use this printer to its fullest. Other owners of this printer, please beware that a direct ethernet connection appears to cause 2 way communication deficiencies with this printer. USB or full ethernet network are apparently the way to go.

I hope this helps,

Mick

[JRSmit]

Thanks for the comprehensive update.
Glad to read that you guys have no print issues with the 9570.
In my shop i work with a full Ethernet network.

[George Marinos]

We installed this printer in our downtown studio in late March. Since then, we have encountered several intermittent issues with both the printer and Epson Media Installer. For both we received either bad advice or no help whatsoever from Epson Tech Reps. When we had been fortunate enough to print without interference by these glitches, which was not often, the results were excellent. So, we had no intention on giving up on this printer until all avenues had been exhausted. That said, we are fortunate to have 4 other wide format Epson printers on which to print the work that we were unable to run on the 9570 when the issues were rampant. If the 9570 had been our only printer, our situation would have become very dire very fast.

Today, I believe we found the major cause of many of the software related issues. From the start, with the guidance and support of Epson, the printer has been connected directly to its controlling MAC via an ethernet cable due to its physical distance from that Mac and only a wireless network being available. The MAC allows for this type of direct connection with IP protocol. No crossover cable is required. While this method of connecting the two did work in terms of printing to the printer, it was apparently the cause of serious software related issues such as the repeated corruption of the driver upon every attempt to create custom media using Epson Media Installer and the intermittent ability of the MAC to read that custom media which would then suddenly not be read. Other features would also work one day but not the next. We had reset the printer, the printing system on the Mac, reinstalled the driver, firmware and Epson folder more times than I care to remember.

This morning, we decided to disconnect the printer, reinstall the driver again and connect the printer by a 25 foot long USB cable strung across the floor so as to reach the printer. While we had to make slight changes to each custom media so that they could be re-saved and re-registered to the printer, every one of them registered properly and was read by the printer and Mac perfectly. Also, Epson Media Installer was opened, changes made, quit and relaunched several times without any noticeable driver corruption or problem of any kind. This was the first time we have seen this printer work flawlessly since late March. So, we have ordered an active 32 foot USB cable. Our longest cable was only about 5 feet short.

We discovered this connection related issue through failed attempts to update the firmware via that direct ethernet connection. As soon as we connected the printer by USB cable, we were able to update firmware. So, finally a lightbulb ignited. It took far too long for us to put 2 and 2 together to apply that finding to these other issues. Assumptions, frustrations and distractions clouded the mind. But, better late than never.

So, fingers crossed, we may finally be on a path to really use this printer to its fullest. Other owners of this printer, please beware that a direct ethernet connection appears to cause 2 way communication deficiencies with this printer. USB or full ethernet network are apparently the way to go.

I hope this helps,

Mick

I have noticed that in the past, with Ethernet and firewire connections, on several printers. They performed only basic operations. I only now use USB connections and everything works fine! I am on Mac.
Have you print on glossy Fineart paper on P9500 and if yes what are you thinking in comparison with other Epson printers?
Regards

[arobinson7547]

VERY VERY IMPORTANT...

>So, we have ordered an active 32 foot USB cable<

Good for you. USB should not really go longer than 10ft, without being active (especially in a critical case, like this).

You 'could' have traded one problem with another, without that 'active' cable.

I run IPF8300 using Directed Ethernet on a PC. A pretty good tell-tell would be if the Print Monitor utility is working consistently (Epson or Canon); you should always see the Ink Levels and current Printer Status displayed. That's a good test of Bi-Directional Communication.

Also, I don't think many use them on the MAC but on the PC, it's a good practice to turn OFF the Firewall (It can block communication with the Printer.

[Mick Sang]

Good for you. USB should not really go longer than 10ft, without being active (especially in a critical case, like this).

Quite right. The cable with which we did the final test on the 9570 yesterday is a standard 25 footer used only out of necessity. As I mentioned, it worked. While you are quite right that USB cables should not exceed 10 feet in length, we ran our 7900 with that same standard USB cable for 6 years without a hitch. So, some rules were meant to be broken, I suppose. That said, every time we had a problem with that printer, the cable was the first thing we looked at. Nevertheless, since we have to use a USB cable for the 9570 and since it has to be even longer, only the best, active cable will do. I do like to sleep at night.

Paul

[Mick Sang]

Have you print on glossy Fineart paper on P9500 and if yes what are you thinking in comparison with other Epson printers?

Yes, we've printed on Hahnemuhle FA Baryta, Ilford GFS, Ilford GF Gloss, Epson Gloss, Epson Lustre, Canson Platine, Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl and Epson Exhibition Fibre. All results were excellent except for Exhibition Fibre which was over-inked and has an ugly waxy look in the 3/4 tones and shadows. The others printed beautifully IMHO, with larger gamuts, beautiful blacks, sharp etc. No issues were seen.

Paul

[Rand47]

This is GREAT news!!!   I’ll be interested to know how it goes as you put the thing through its paces!

Rand

[Mick Sang]

This is GREAT news!!!   I’ll be interested to know how it goes as you put the thing through its paces!

Well, it WAS great news and we had begun to "put the printer through it's paces" yet again - until yesterday. We had attempted to do that several times over the past 8 months. After our discovery last week, the starts & stops appeared to be due to failures and corruption caused by our choice of direct connection via ethernet as described in my initial post.  But, today for no good reason that we are able to discern, once again Use Printer Settings in the driver failed to "see" the selected custom media. It simply states "Printer Media."

So, we loaded EMI, made a slight change to the specific custom media which was not showing up and then re-saved it. This is what we had to do after installing our USB connection when it appeared that this new connection was going to work. It was as though the previously entered custom media settings were somehow rendered dormant by the issues apparently caused by the previous connection. Making a small edit and re-saving each custom media in EMI brought them all back to life. That is, with the USB connection they were all now visible to EMI and under "Use Printer Settings."

However, this time, that method did not work. Nothing whatsoever had been changed in the MAC.

Now, believing that perhaps the length of our active USB cable (32 feet) might be a factor, we sat the MAC atop the printer and connected it by a much shorter, standard length USB cable and restarted Mac and Printer. This made no difference AND the launching of EMI wiped out all saved paper presets. We keep a backup of the pref for that eventuality. But, even that failed to bring them back. In the control panel, I changed the media setting to a standard Epson paper. "Use Printer Settings" still did not "see' it. I changed to another (Epson Premium Lustre) and it did "see" that one. I switched back to one of our custom media to no avail.

This is exactly how the system had behaved with the direct ethernet connection. So, as we all feared, the apparent simple solution of the USB connection which seemed too good to be true actually was. At least we got to see the system in correct operation for a few days. But, that's how it's been going with this thing since day one. How can we ever have faith in such a system?

Tomorrow, I will be spending much of another day on the horn with Epson in hopes of finding someone who knows the whole print system well enough that they can offer meaningful help. The printer can operate without EMI in a similar way to its predecessors. But, this would be even more difficult as half the driver settings are now only on the printer. In short, the printer works well. The system is a failure - on MAC and in our experience at least.

In the meanwhile, I'd be very interested to learn if any other MAC user and owner of the 75** / 95** line has experienced similar issues.

Cheers,

Mick

[Mick Sang]

you should always see the Ink Levels and current Printer Status displayed. That's a good test of Bi-Directional Communication.

Oddly, yes there was communication with this. I presumed that this would indicate a back & forth. Your confirmation is good to see. Thanks you,

Mick

[JRSmit]

Glad i swapped my 9500 back to  scp9000 printers. These work without  issues .

[Jeremy Roussak]

FWIW, I run a 7500 over a wired Ethernet network, printing from an iMac Pro, and have had no communication difficulties at all.

Jeremy

[arobinson7547]

You might not like it, but you 'could' try connecting the Printer to a PC (old used machine) or older MAC and sorta use it as a Print Server.

Personally, I prefer using a Rip for this very reason. It allows you to 'save a collection' of settings and stores/attaches them in a Rip Queue; whenever you Print thru that Queue, those saved settings are used. (The Rip 'sends' them to the Printer)

I have a post in here somewhere talking about using Virtual Machines. The idea behind it was, You have to 'discover' the OS/Software combinations that will work best for you and use those. Sometimes things are 'better' on MAC; sometimes better on the PC. Sometimes an older OS is better then a newer one (windows 8 or 7 vs windows 10) or (safari or catalina vs Big Sur).

And sometimes, more often than not, having a Printer attached to a FRESH machine with little to nothing else on it, can make all the difference in the World.

Sure Epson will work it out (fingers crossed), but in the mean time...

ps. That 1Gb Ethernet connection 'should' be WAY better and much more reliable than the USB connection (not to mention so much faster). I would try to get that to work and on ANY machine, make sure to use Solid State Storage so the Disk has no problem having to do multiple things at the same time (reading, writing, spooling). I don't necessarily think it is the Software; I think it is the combinations of ALL the different things that are in Play.

[Gerd_Peters]

From my point of view this is clearly a software problem. I do not assume that the PCI-E bus from the printer has a problem that serves both the USB and the Ethernet port.

Our 9500 should come next week, maybe I can say more then. Or - maybe I am completely speechless because I have much worse problems ..... 

Greetings Gerd

[Mick Sang]

That 1Gb Ethernet connection 'should' be WAY better and much more reliable than the USB connection (not to mention so much faster). I would try to get that to work and on ANY machine, make sure to use Solid State Storage so the Disk has no problem having to do multiple things at the same time (reading, writing, spooling).

Thanks for this. Yes, we have become so frustrated that trying a PC or even installing Big Sur have been considered. But, this will happen only when all else has failed. Which RIP are you using?

In fact, we spent the first 7 months trying to get the direct ethernet connection to work as intended without any luck. It was the fact that we could not update the firmware via that connection and only via USB that caused me to think that perhaps the ethernet connection was the issue. Once we connected via USB, it all worked for a few days. The temporary nature of this is something I fail to understand. During those 3 or 4 days we were even able to launch EMI without it damaging the driver. It was very good to see it all work as it is supposed to. Not any longer.

The MAC does indeed have a solid state drive and I do understand how one flavour or iteration of computer can make a difference. I have seen that with other equipment over the years and it is the reason why we have so many older computers. But, the fact remains that each time Epson Media Installer is launched, it corrupts the driver such that the printer has to be reinstalled. Aside from that short stint of 3 days this has been reliably repeatable.

So, perhaps to put the question differently: are there any Mac users anywhere who own a 95** or 75** who are having success with Epson Media Installer in combination with these printers without a RIP i.e. through the driver?

I'd love to read some success stories. May you'll have the key....

Mick

[Mick Sang]

FWIW, I run a 7500 over a wired Ethernet network, printing from an iMac Pro, and have had no communication difficulties at all

I'm glad to learn that. Or let's say, I'm happy for you.

So, to be sure, is yours a full ethernet network i.e  with several computer nodes/addresses? Ours was a direct connection via ethernet. Do you print from the driver or a RIP? Do you use Epson Media Installer? If so, have you had any issues similar to those which we have whereby the driver has to be reinstalled after every use aside from a 3 day period last week?

Any other MAC users experiencing success with these printers?

Thanks,
Mick

[Jeremy Roussak]

I'm glad to learn that. Or let's say, I'm happy for you.

So, to be sure, is yours a full ethernet network i.e  with several computer nodes/addresses? Ours was a direct connection via ethernet. Do you print from the driver or a RIP? Do you use Epson Media Installer? If so, have you had any issues similar to those which we have whereby the driver has to be reinstalled after every use aside from a 3 day period last week?

Any other MAC users experiencing success with these printers?

I did preface my remark with "For what it's worth"!

In answer to your questions, yes, although it's my home network it has two Macs, several CCTV cameras and their DVR unit and four printers (two Brother lasers, the 7500 and an old 3800) connected by wire; I print from the Epson driver; and I have used EMI without difficulty (once the "can't save settings" bug was fixed).

Maybe I'm just lucky.

Jeremy

[Mick Sang]

I did preface my remark with "For what it's worth"!

Thank you Jeremy. It is worth quite a lot. I know of no other owner of these printers who also runs a Mac in connection with it. So, I wonder is it just us or are these issues MAC rampant?

So, we will look closely at our MAC and again at it's interface with the printer in hopes of narrowing this down. We'll also try Epson Support again.

In the meanwhile, I'd still love to know if any other MAC based owner of one of these printers has experienced any similar issues?

Thanks again,
Mick

[arobinson7547]

Hopefully others will chime in. Are you able to install your OS (whatever version you use) Clean? Like start the installer and put the installation on a different partition or different Drive?

If you 'could' do this and let's say it works PERFECTLY, than you can take a look at what else is running on the machine. If it does the same thing, you will know it's not the fault of anything else installed/running.

The configuration is pretty standard Mac OS with an Epson directly connected via Ethernet. A clean install also helps to 'put the ball into Epson's Court.

I know that MAC let you 'choose' the Startup Disk. I can buy a 120gb SSD for $20 bucks, from my local Computer Store; more than large enough to do a fresh install. You should be able to switch back and forth, just by changing the Startup Disk, during Boot.

[Mick Sang]

Are you able to install your OS (whatever version you use) Clean? Like start the installer and put the installation on a different partition or different Drive?

Thank you, yes, I reinstalled the existing system (Mojave 10.14.6), deleted the Epson folder, prefs etc. to start fresh - no change. Then we purchased a 4GB external which was partitioned. We put Catlaina on one partition and Big Sur on another and tried Catalina - no change. We have not tried Big Sur as yet. But, I must add that they ran painfully slow. Tomorrow we go at it again.

Hopefully, I will hear from other MAC users who have had success with these printers. So far Jeremy is the only one. That said, we have had success on 2 or perhaps 3 occasions which lasted only a few days at most each time. Why it didn't stick and why it degraded thereafter I do not know. Therein lies the challenge.

Mick

P.S. 120gb ssd for $20? Wow!

[arobinson7547]

>P.S. 120gb ssd for $20? Wow!<

https://www.microcenter.com/product/623040/inland-professional-128gb-3d-tlc-nand-sata-30-60-gb-s-25-internal-ssdMicrocenter