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Author Topic: Canvas ripples  (Read 783 times)

David Eckels

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Canvas ripples
« on: November 05, 2020, 02:43:49 pm »

I printed a large canvas for a friend and let it dry for a week or so. When I stretched it, it was perfect, taught and flat. It hung that way for two days at my house. When I delivered the print, the canvas was perfectly flat, we hung it on the wall and there it was for three days, about two miles from my house. When I dropped by today there were ripples in the canvas. Aaaaaggh! I have read about light misting, ironing, and acrylic Gesso on the back side. Worried about inkjet prints and heat, also water (no varnish on the print.) What about a surface varnish spray? I could tell my friend was disappointed when I walked in today. :(

Jim Metzger

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2020, 04:29:01 pm »

Initial thought is the temperature / humidity at the new location is very different from your house.
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Jeffrey Saldinger

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2020, 05:02:01 pm »

I don't know whether any of the following applies to "canvas" that is used in inkjet printing, but cotton and linen supports ("canvas") that are used in painting, when they are manufactured, are (or are sometimes) woven with different tensions in the warp and weft. If, after a painting or blank canvas is stretched, the ambient humidity changes very much, the canvas will stretch or shrink different amounts in the two directions of the weave. This causes ripples. It is possible this behavior would be seen in inkjet canvas; I imagine it would depend on how it is manufactured. The effect in paintings is sometimes seen only in the corners, sometimes more or less all over.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 08:58:51 pm by Jeffrey Saldinger »
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Jeffrey
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langier

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2020, 08:47:40 pm »

One thing my framer told me is when the canvas is a little wrinkly or sagging, use a spray bottle and spritz the back. That should get the canvas to shrink and tighten up once it's stretched.
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Larry Angier
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David Eckels

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2020, 09:13:29 am »

Thanks for the responses.
Larry, I have heard that too and it may be my first strategy.
Jeffrey, you are correct, my mother was an oil painter and used the "spritzer" method sometimes although, generous Gesso pre-treatment also helped.
Jim, I think it is not coincidental that the window right next to the canvas had been open all night and my friend said her sinuses were bothering her because it was so dry. Rain is due so we'll see how it goes.

Any thoughts on some of my proposals above?

Jeffrey Saldinger

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2020, 11:10:46 am »



Any thoughts on some of my proposals above?

Not from me, David; I have no experience with them.
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Jeffrey
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mearussi

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2020, 03:52:16 pm »

1. What canvas did you use? Is it a poly/cotton 70/30, cotton/poly 70/30, 100% cotton or 100% poly? Makes a difference as the higher the cotton content the more it's temperature and humidity sensitive. 

2. What kind of stretcher bars did you use? Are they adjustable or fixed, thick high quality wood or thinner wood? Even wood absorbs humidity and is temperature sensitive. If they are adjustable then they can be retightened, if not then you may have to restretch.

I use kit frames that are adjustable and therefore can be retightened. I've tried the various canvas tightening techniques and found all wanting or at least temporary at best.
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2020, 04:09:47 pm »

David:
First off, you should always spray your canvas' with a protective coating. All inkjet material these days has a microporous ink receptor layer, and if you don't seal that, your unprotected canvas print is subject to admospheric peril. Most people that do canvas prints professionally, use matte canvas and spray it after printing with producsts like "Timeless", which are basically latex paint withoiut pigments.

Second thing regarding ripples in stretched canvas, yes spritzing the back can help sometimes. I fine stretching under low humidity is best.

Good luck!
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langier

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2020, 09:39:06 pm »

For coating my canvas (I've settled on Fredrix 7777), I use ClearShield Canvas Guard Type C Semi-Gloss and apply it with a foam paint roller. The coating protects the pigments, adds UV/moisture protection (it's considered a liquid-laminate) and makes the image "pop." The coating also seems to add some kind of elastifier to help during later stretching if needed and makes the surface less susceptible to scuffing, scratching and much more durable than uncoated.

The ClearShield is available in gloss to mat finish and I think there's maybe five different finishes available.

So far, I haven't seen any problems with the coatings once the canvas is stretched, even after nearly ten years since I started doing this.

I used to set up a trough and rollers when I had a several-hundred print project but now I'm only printing a few each month at the most.

It's faster and easier to set-up and clean up using a covered table and the roller system. One trick I did figure out, though, was to dilute the ClearShield by adding about 20-25% water to thing out the coating.

For smaller prints, up to a 16x20 wrap, I may get lucky and only need to make a single coat. However, I always figure it will take two coats. A couple of weeks ago, several 24x60 inch pieces did take two coats which can be easily done during a single day.

What I do is to soak the roller in a paint tray then squeeze the coating back into the tray. The first coat I try to even out over the entire canvas with overlapping strokes every which way to even out the coating. The first coating seems to leave visible streaks after it soaks into the canvas.

Once the first coat is dry to the touch which depending upon the temperature can take as little as a half hour and up to two or three when its colder like now, a second and thinner coat can be quickly applied which seems to make the surface of the canvas just about perfect.

I'm not certain that canvas really needs to be coated on the back since the ink and pigments seem to have some protection from not only the material but also the substrates and base surfaces of the coatings. It would be a very harsh environment that would require such efforts IMO.
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Larry Angier
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David Eckels

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2020, 08:39:59 am »

Thanks for the advice, folks. I am going to try the spritzer on the back method next week; it seems to work on some throw-away stretched canvases. If that does not work to my friend's satisfaction I will find a matte spray varnish just to make the ripples less obvious. I have Timeless matte but I'm not sure how that would work with a canvas that is already stretched. Fingers crossed. The canvas is Epson Ultra.

dgberg

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2020, 03:26:53 pm »

The product is Canvas Tight n'Up. An adhesive in a water base. Spritz the back and then dry it with a hair dryer. I used to use it a fair amount but now explain to my customer base the seasonal changes in canvas. Sloppy in winter, come back in summer and ping it is tight as a drum. The larger the piece the more they tend to get floppy. I still have had to take several apart and redo. They were both over 40x60"
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 03:32:13 pm by dgberg »
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David Eckels

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2020, 05:11:40 pm »

Dan,
Thank you so much for this. I will try to find some.
Just ordered from Amazon.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 05:31:58 pm by David Eckels »
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dgberg

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2020, 08:33:40 pm »

You are welcome, hope it works for you.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2020, 06:39:59 am »

I use CG Pro Prints services. Thet mount canvas on a solid backing, and close it from behind too.

David Eckels

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2020, 08:36:21 am »

Thanks, Dan. Unfortunately, it didn't work as advertised. Cupping along the edges was better but still present. Stretcher bars had not warped either. So I can re-stretch (don't trust myself to do that right), print again and stretch, but let a framer do it (maybe they will do a better job), or spray a matte varnish and hope it is not as noticeable. BC Timeless cannot be rolled on (by me) without lifting ink from totally dried canvas. May stop printing on canvas all together; anybody need some Frame Destination stretcher bars and unused canvas rolls?

Slobodan, yes I could go that way and probably should from now on. When you stretch it perfectly in your own studio and stays perfect for a few days here at home, then goes bad after 2-3 days on the client's wall however, it must be alchemy.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 10:02:13 am by David Eckels »
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arobinson7547

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2020, 08:52:29 am »

>I use CG Pro Prints services. That mount canvas on a solid backing,<

That Solid Backing technique reminds me that you sometimes need a
different solution for some commercial spaces. (People intentionally trying to damage Art)

The first time I used MDF was when people continued to knock a 24x36 photo off of the wall.

I reprinted at 40x50", coated, and mounted it to MDF and glued a custom hanger/stand offs.

Let's see 'um knock that Puppy off.
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dgberg

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2020, 04:39:25 pm »

I just saw now if I read it right that you don't have a coating on the front. it has to be coated, period. Especially now that you sprayed something on the back. I have done hundreds and I mean hundreds and something is wrong with your process. Print, let dry overnight, spray or roll protective coat, let dry. Proper stretching is a must. We use a Gallery Stretcher machine here and make them really taught. When you skip any one process you will see the results.
Don't give up on canvas. Maybe time for a workshop.

David Eckels

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2020, 05:36:32 pm »

You read right, Dan. I did order a varnish, Golden Archival Varnish Spray, 10 Oz, Matte, that comes in aerosol cans. I will see how that does.
Maybe time for a workshop.
Oh, yeah. When I get the vaccine, if it ever comes out.

dgberg

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2020, 08:07:22 pm »

I am with you. Incoming jobs are off 90% from last year. Thank goodness it is a retirement business but still bad.

dgberg

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Re: Canvas ripples
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2020, 08:13:34 pm »

What printer and black ink? Most if not all matte canvases with mk ink will be fine with a rolled Timeless varnish.
Semigloss or gloss canvas with pk ink can be a different story. Several known compatability issues.
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