Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: David Eckels on November 05, 2020, 02:43:49 pm
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I printed a large canvas for a friend and let it dry for a week or so. When I stretched it, it was perfect, taught and flat. It hung that way for two days at my house. When I delivered the print, the canvas was perfectly flat, we hung it on the wall and there it was for three days, about two miles from my house. When I dropped by today there were ripples in the canvas. Aaaaaggh! I have read about light misting, ironing, and acrylic Gesso on the back side. Worried about inkjet prints and heat, also water (no varnish on the print.) What about a surface varnish spray? I could tell my friend was disappointed when I walked in today. :(
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Initial thought is the temperature / humidity at the new location is very different from your house.
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I don't know whether any of the following applies to "canvas" that is used in inkjet printing, but cotton and linen supports ("canvas") that are used in painting, when they are manufactured, are (or are sometimes) woven with different tensions in the warp and weft. If, after a painting or blank canvas is stretched, the ambient humidity changes very much, the canvas will stretch or shrink different amounts in the two directions of the weave. This causes ripples. It is possible this behavior would be seen in inkjet canvas; I imagine it would depend on how it is manufactured. The effect in paintings is sometimes seen only in the corners, sometimes more or less all over.
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One thing my framer told me is when the canvas is a little wrinkly or sagging, use a spray bottle and spritz the back. That should get the canvas to shrink and tighten up once it's stretched.
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Thanks for the responses.
Larry, I have heard that too and it may be my first strategy.
Jeffrey, you are correct, my mother was an oil painter and used the "spritzer" method sometimes although, generous Gesso pre-treatment also helped.
Jim, I think it is not coincidental that the window right next to the canvas had been open all night and my friend said her sinuses were bothering her because it was so dry. Rain is due so we'll see how it goes.
Any thoughts on some of my proposals above?
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Any thoughts on some of my proposals above?
Not from me, David; I have no experience with them.
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1. What canvas did you use? Is it a poly/cotton 70/30, cotton/poly 70/30, 100% cotton or 100% poly? Makes a difference as the higher the cotton content the more it's temperature and humidity sensitive.
2. What kind of stretcher bars did you use? Are they adjustable or fixed, thick high quality wood or thinner wood? Even wood absorbs humidity and is temperature sensitive. If they are adjustable then they can be retightened, if not then you may have to restretch.
I use kit frames that are adjustable and therefore can be retightened. I've tried the various canvas tightening techniques and found all wanting or at least temporary at best.
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David:
First off, you should always spray your canvas' with a protective coating. All inkjet material these days has a microporous ink receptor layer, and if you don't seal that, your unprotected canvas print is subject to admospheric peril. Most people that do canvas prints professionally, use matte canvas and spray it after printing with producsts like "Timeless", which are basically latex paint withoiut pigments.
Second thing regarding ripples in stretched canvas, yes spritzing the back can help sometimes. I fine stretching under low humidity is best.
Good luck!
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For coating my canvas (I've settled on Fredrix 7777), I use ClearShield Canvas Guard Type C Semi-Gloss and apply it with a foam paint roller. The coating protects the pigments, adds UV/moisture protection (it's considered a liquid-laminate) and makes the image "pop." The coating also seems to add some kind of elastifier to help during later stretching if needed and makes the surface less susceptible to scuffing, scratching and much more durable than uncoated.
The ClearShield is available in gloss to mat finish and I think there's maybe five different finishes available.
So far, I haven't seen any problems with the coatings once the canvas is stretched, even after nearly ten years since I started doing this.
I used to set up a trough and rollers when I had a several-hundred print project but now I'm only printing a few each month at the most.
It's faster and easier to set-up and clean up using a covered table and the roller system. One trick I did figure out, though, was to dilute the ClearShield by adding about 20-25% water to thing out the coating.
For smaller prints, up to a 16x20 wrap, I may get lucky and only need to make a single coat. However, I always figure it will take two coats. A couple of weeks ago, several 24x60 inch pieces did take two coats which can be easily done during a single day.
What I do is to soak the roller in a paint tray then squeeze the coating back into the tray. The first coat I try to even out over the entire canvas with overlapping strokes every which way to even out the coating. The first coating seems to leave visible streaks after it soaks into the canvas.
Once the first coat is dry to the touch which depending upon the temperature can take as little as a half hour and up to two or three when its colder like now, a second and thinner coat can be quickly applied which seems to make the surface of the canvas just about perfect.
I'm not certain that canvas really needs to be coated on the back since the ink and pigments seem to have some protection from not only the material but also the substrates and base surfaces of the coatings. It would be a very harsh environment that would require such efforts IMO.
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Thanks for the advice, folks. I am going to try the spritzer on the back method next week; it seems to work on some throw-away stretched canvases. If that does not work to my friend's satisfaction I will find a matte spray varnish just to make the ripples less obvious. I have Timeless matte but I'm not sure how that would work with a canvas that is already stretched. Fingers crossed. The canvas is Epson Ultra.
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The product is Canvas Tight n'Up. An adhesive in a water base. Spritz the back and then dry it with a hair dryer. I used to use it a fair amount but now explain to my customer base the seasonal changes in canvas. Sloppy in winter, come back in summer and ping it is tight as a drum. The larger the piece the more they tend to get floppy. I still have had to take several apart and redo. They were both over 40x60"
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Dan,
Thank you so much for this. I will try to find some.
Just ordered from Amazon.
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You are welcome, hope it works for you.
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I use CG Pro Prints services. Thet mount canvas on a solid backing, and close it from behind too.
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Thanks, Dan. Unfortunately, it didn't work as advertised. Cupping along the edges was better but still present. Stretcher bars had not warped either. So I can re-stretch (don't trust myself to do that right), print again and stretch, but let a framer do it (maybe they will do a better job), or spray a matte varnish and hope it is not as noticeable. BC Timeless cannot be rolled on (by me) without lifting ink from totally dried canvas. May stop printing on canvas all together; anybody need some Frame Destination stretcher bars and unused canvas rolls?
Slobodan, yes I could go that way and probably should from now on. When you stretch it perfectly in your own studio and stays perfect for a few days here at home, then goes bad after 2-3 days on the client's wall however, it must be alchemy.
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>I use CG Pro Prints services. That mount canvas on a solid backing,<
That Solid Backing technique reminds me that you sometimes need a
different solution for some commercial spaces. (People intentionally trying to damage Art)
The first time I used MDF was when people continued to knock a 24x36 photo off of the wall.
I reprinted at 40x50", coated, and mounted it to MDF and glued a custom hanger/stand offs.
Let's see 'um knock that Puppy off.
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I just saw now if I read it right that you don't have a coating on the front. it has to be coated, period. Especially now that you sprayed something on the back. I have done hundreds and I mean hundreds and something is wrong with your process. Print, let dry overnight, spray or roll protective coat, let dry. Proper stretching is a must. We use a Gallery Stretcher machine here and make them really taught. When you skip any one process you will see the results.
Don't give up on canvas. Maybe time for a workshop.
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You read right, Dan. I did order a varnish, Golden Archival Varnish Spray, 10 Oz, Matte, that comes in aerosol cans. I will see how that does.
Maybe time for a workshop.
Oh, yeah. When I get the vaccine, if it ever comes out.
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I am with you. Incoming jobs are off 90% from last year. Thank goodness it is a retirement business but still bad.
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What printer and black ink? Most if not all matte canvases with mk ink will be fine with a rolled Timeless varnish.
Semigloss or gloss canvas with pk ink can be a different story. Several known compatability issues.
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PK canvases can not handle rolled on varnishes without lifting the ink, though some are more resistant to it than others. Matte canvases should have no problems. If you do have to roller coat a gloss/satin canvas, first spray it with one of the canned solvent varnishes (Moab, Hahnemuhle, etc) then you can roller coat the canvas with a water based coating.
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I don't know what a PK canvas is. The canvas I have is Epson Exhibition Canvas Natural Satin and the ink lifts with either the BK or MBK, but really all the colors (Canon Lucia) come up.
But, OK, now we are getting to at least one of the issues: I'm using a bad combination of canvas and ink. At least mearussi has a way of dealing with it. Thank you. I could use that approach, or perhaps there is another canvas that I should use. What about Canon canvas?
Now, back to the OP, will varnishing the canvas properly avoid ripples?
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Gloss black ink, (PK) has trouble drying properly on satin, statin gloss or gloss canvas. The ink will lift most times if you try to roll coat a varnish topcoat.
If you move to a matte canvas using (mk) matte ink you will be able to roll on a varnish after your ink has dried 24 hours.
You now can control your final desired sheen by the varnish you roll on. Matte, semigloss or gloss.
You will also save money because some of the satin and gloss canvases can cost twice what the matte canvases cost.
I think I pay around $1.05 a sq. ft. for my Lexjet Sunset Select Matte Canvas.
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I don't know what a PK canvas is. The canvas I have is Epson Exhibition Canvas Natural Satin and the ink lifts with either the BK or MBK, but really all the colors (Canon Lucia) come up.
But, OK, now we are getting to at least one of the issues: I'm using a bad combination of canvas and ink. At least mearussi has a way of dealing with it. Thank you. I could use that approach, or perhaps there is another canvas that I should use. What about Canon canvas?
Now, back to the OP, will varnishing the canvas properly avoid ripples?
No, all canvasses will sag over time because of changes in temperature and humidity. A poly/cotton canvas will sag less than a 100% cotton and if you use stretcher bars that can be easily retightened then that will temporarily fix the problem (until the next time). I use the GoFrame Pro kit stretcher bars that can be easily retightened by anyone just using a small hammer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiY3zmL1tXM&t=58s&ab_channel=LexJet (notice the tensioners being installed at 2:30).
When your canvas sags all you have to do is give the tensioners a light tap with a hammer to retighten the canvas.
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Dan, mearussi,
Very useful information and thank you. Unfortunately, the original canvas may not be salvageable and I will have to re-print. I will then have to decide how to stretch. Gotta use up all the stretcher bars and Epson canvas I still have! Had I known this craft (canvas printing) had such a steep learning curve, I probably would not have embarked upon it, but then I would have no control over color unless I limited myself to paper. Perhaps the smarter choice. ???
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Dan, mearussi,
Very useful information and thank you. Unfortunately, the original canvas may not be salvageable and I will have to re-print. I will then have to decide how to stretch. Gotta use up all the stretcher bars and Epson canvas I still have! Had I known this craft (canvas printing) had such a steep learning curve, I probably would not have embarked upon it, but then I would have no control over color unless I limited myself to paper. Perhaps the smarter choice. ???
Like so many things canvas has it's strengths and weaknesses. The primary reason I switched to canvas from paper was a stretched canvas is so much lighter to carry than a framed picture and I'm getting old and can't lift as much as I used to. I also hate glass reflections and can't afford AR glass. Other advantages are no paper curl to deal with and very easy to store and ship a rolled canvas vs a paper print which is more easily damaged.
The two primary weaknesses are canvas sag and having to coat them, though I plan on experimenting with Breathing Color's new no coat canvases to see how well that actually works.
https://www.breathingcolor.com/collections/no-lam-canvas
I've done some prints using the Silverada which adds an interesting effect to images, and have ordered the 17M to see if I'll like it.
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Our biggest seller the last several years has been canvas on gator board attached with Miracle Muck and over
laminated with DryTac's Art Shield Satinex vinyl laminate. We have a hot laminator but instead use our 32x42 Knight Maxi heat press to apply.
Although we purchased it for Chromaluxe metal prints it is the perfect machine to apply the Satinex vinyl laminate. Has a really great look.
The biggest plus with the vinyl is it is a much better protectant that spray.
We are also finding that gallery wraps when vinyl laminated have virtually no shrinkage and do not get loose like the others and is virtually indestructible.
Only negative that we see is the natural look and feel is now gone because the canvas has a vinyl layer applied. Always some sort of trade off.