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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 455241 times)

Robert Roaldi

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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15841 on: September 22, 2023, 10:01:39 pm »

I have long had the position that people can control their own destiny, and the heck with them if they prematurely cause their own demise. I just don't care about them any more. Anti-vaxxers and the like no longer get my empathy or understanding.

However, what drives me nuts is those who, through their crazy beliefs (religious or otherwise) and/or uneducated devotion to wacko ideas, place their fellow humans in unnecessary danger. This polio article is a classic example.

And what perplexes me most is, in a world where knowledge and truth are so easy to access, why the average person is so dis-inclined to educate themselves. Having said that I think most people are, inherently, followers, are easily impressed and just need to be lead. Makes them an easy mark for any shill that pushes an idea.

I now fear things have progressed too far and "they ain't coming back" and I don't think things are going to end well.....for any of us.

Marv
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15842 on: September 23, 2023, 01:51:01 pm »

I have long had the position that people can control their own destiny, and the heck with them if they prematurely cause their own demise. I just don't care about them any more. Anti-vaxxers and the like no longer get my empathy or understanding.

However, what drives me nuts is those who, through their crazy beliefs (religious or otherwise) and/or uneducated devotion to wacko ideas, place their fellow humans in unnecessary danger. This polio article is a classic example.

And what perplexes me most is, in a world where knowledge and truth are so easy to access, why the average person is so dis-inclined to educate themselves. Having said that I think most people are, inherently, followers, are easily impressed and just need to be lead. Makes them an easy mark for any shill that pushes an idea.

I now fear things have progressed too far and "they ain't coming back" and I don't think things are going to end well.....for any of us.

Marv


I hope you're wrong about things having gone too far. It could be that the interweb leads us to think that there are more crazies than actually exist. The lowest common denominator communications medium may selectively amplify the worst in us, it's not as if there are curators. OTOH, it may not take many goofballs to ruin things.

I came across this though about people who don't believe that germs cause disease, despite all the scientific evidence, https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct5d94. I could not listen all the way through, too dumb to tolerate, but it struck me that the one lady they interviewed seemed to be trying very hard to NOT believe that germs cause disease. It's not obvious to me why anyone would take that position but I wonder if it gives her a false sense of being a "rebel". Popular culture assigns cachet to being a rebel so maybe people go chasing it a bit too hard. Seems to me a bit like all the people who profess to believe that Biden's election was rigged despite there being zero evidence. It might be too easy for village idiots to get attention these days. We were better off when we just ignored them. There is a point of view that it hurts things to treat those folks with disdain or sarcasm, that it hurts the "cause". But I can't help myself, it seems to me that there are some things too stupid to put up with. It's not ok to believe in magic.

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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15843 on: September 24, 2023, 08:17:58 pm »

Although from the Greater Vancouver, BC area, I have travelled a lot in the U.S. (thought I would refer to the U.S. as most of the conversation in this thread touches on the U.S., although many of the topics/personalities are shared around the world, Canada included). Except for a half dozen flights, have driven an estimated 80+ trips to various U.S. locations in about 16 states. I enjoy meeting and speaking with many locals, and other (U.S.) travellers, about a number of topics.

Just came back from an RV trip during which I met a couple, he a recently retired teacher from the Denver area, she also a teacher but not quite yet retired. During conversation, he actually asked where British Columbia is and if it was in Canada. On another trip, talked to a young fellow (early 20's) who was pumping gas in a small S Dakota town, who actually asked me where Canada is.

Over the years in the U.S., although not as extreme, I have met many, many people who know very little, not only about locations a bit of a distance from their home areas, but surprisingly very little about their immediate areas.

The point of these examples, is it seems many people either don't care to or have little ability to learn anything beyond their immediate sight, geographically, politically or anything else that may affect their lives. They hear/see something from what they determine (not sure how though) without investigating, is an acceptable source and run with it. And to my point in my previous post, I do not see any current or future generations suddenly desire to become enlightened. We're going down a rabbit hole from which we will likely not return in good shape.
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Frans Waterlander

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15844 on: September 25, 2023, 10:23:53 am »

This echo-chamber goes on and on and on................................................
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15845 on: September 25, 2023, 11:20:29 am »

This echo-chamber goes on and on and on................................................

You've got to love the behaviour of someone who about once a month walks into the room, takes a dump on the carpet and departs, never to be seen again until next month.

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1222178#msg1222178
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15846 on: September 25, 2023, 11:24:23 am »

I have read a series of articles lately (various sources, too numerous for me to go look up again but they're not difficult to find) about how private equity firms are buying up American medical practices. I've also read that some health insurance companies are doing the same, giving rise to obvious conflicts of interest. There are anti-trust law suits under way.

Up till now, Americans have seemed reluctant (or their political leaders have anyway) to have government funded universal health care. We'll see how they like private monopoly health care instead, which is where things are headed it seems to me. We've had to listen to people tell us that medical "competition" in the US keeps costs low, so now they'll have to pivot and tell us that monopolies will save them money, for the very first time in history. What I don't get is why so many Canadian politicians seem happy to invite private medical care into Canada because of the high cost of health care delivery. They try to present it as a way to keep taxes low. Geez they must think we're stupid. Don't they think we can figure out that we will still be spending the money, only now we'll be paying an insurance company. I have never in my life thought that insurance carriers were my friend, why would I trust them with my health care? As if private care will keep costs low?!?

Makes me wonder what is going behind the scenes. A few years ago during the Harper era, a news item appeared that didn't gain much traction. Some private prison corporations were lobbying the Harper government. When the press got hold of this, the whole thing quietly disappeared. I remember the timing was funny because it was at a moment when the federal government cancelled a vegetable growing program at several federal prisons. The prisoners were growing food that was being cooked in the prison kitchens. The program was cancelled because, we were told, local growers complained of the cheap competition. I am surprised they didn't take the next step and try to outlaw home gardens.

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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15847 on: September 25, 2023, 03:59:26 pm »

This is where the US is sadly.
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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15848 on: September 25, 2023, 08:15:45 pm »

Quick medical story.

In mid-March I had to go to the Hospital Emergency Dept. in Moab, Utah. (as an aside, it was completely empty and for the two hours I was there, I was the only patient....go figure...).

As part of my exam, the Dr suggested I commit to an MRI and although it was not immediately available (no on-duty tech) he told me I could return the next day for one. However, he advised that if my travel insurance refused to pay, I would be out of pocket $14,000 USD (about a gajillion Canadian dollars). I opted not to take a chance. When I returned to Canada and saw my doctor, an MRI was referred. Last week, I had my appointment.

The difference in the two systems, in one you can get fairly immediate specialty attention, but it will cost big bucks. In the other, you don't have to pay (except through government taxes), but it takes a heck of a long time.

Funny thing, the issue turned out not serious, and in hindsight the MRI wasn't even necessary.
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15849 on: September 26, 2023, 10:15:26 am »

"The cost of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) typically ranges between $375 to $2,850 in the United States, while the national average is $1,325." They were really going to take you to the cleaners!
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15850 on: September 26, 2023, 10:51:51 am »

A funny transition seems to have taken place over time. It used to be that people believed that free market competition is what kept prices low for purchasers. It certainly seemed to be the case in our daily lives, generally speaking. But then at some point, people starting saying that "privatization" kept prices low. Now why would that be? It does not seem to me that privatization alone would have that effect. Privatization without market competition seems like an imperfect way to keep prices low to me. As in, pull the other one. Then soon after we had economists and business leaders try to tell us that monopolies (or as close as makes no difference) keep prices low. Why did we believe that one?
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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15851 on: September 26, 2023, 09:21:03 pm »

I kind of figured the hospital was inflating the price a bit, but I had no idea....Although my sister had to go to the hospital in San Diego a few years ago and her bill included a detailed cost of all that she received. One of those items was $74 for a single Tylenol 3.

And regarding the privatization comments, I increasingly believe those who make such decisions, mostly politicians who "represent" us, now do less for the good of the citizens and more for the big businesses that will financially benefit. Follow the money.....

And... interesting interview of Cassidy Hutchinson today by Jake Tapper. The most significant take-away (to me at least) was that she, with limited funds and political power, felt compelled to strike out on her own and finally "speak the truth", while those in positions of power and wealth haven't the moral backbone to do same. Of course, it is not lost on me that she held on for quite some time and basically lied during her initial congressional interviews, continued looking for a position within Trump's organization even after the 6th, and is now speaking freely while selling her book. Still......

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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15852 on: September 27, 2023, 02:28:05 pm »

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And regarding the privatization comments, I increasingly believe those who make such decisions, mostly politicians who "represent" us, now do less for the good of the citizens and more for the big businesses that will financially benefit. Follow the money.....
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I think that this is a bug in the code, which implies it could be fixed if we wanted to. But decisions like "citizens united" in the USA actually go in the opposite wrong direction. This implies that there are lots of people who think it is OK for government to cater to special interests. It's not clear to me why anyone would think this is a good idea.

Centralization of economic power in the hands of fewer "oligarchs" cannot be good for the rest of us, I don't believe. Viewed from that point of view, you can sort of understand Trump's popular support. That is, many people more or less feel that their governments do not act in their interest. I think that they were sold a bill of goods if they thought Trump was going to fix things for them. But then the movement morphed into anti-vax anti-mask anti-trans anti-libtard moral panic craziness, all of which were deflections aided and abetted by bad actors and fools. Re-read Animal Farm for details.

I read in the news that anti-trust actions are being taken against Amazon and medical monopolies, so there are some signs of sanity out there. I also read the Pennsylvania has mandated that everyone there is entitled to vote, no dis-enfranchisement allowed. I assume that some are freaking out over this and they're preparing the think tank articles as we speak. It's going to be interesting to see how they can make the right to vote sound like a bad thing.

In other news, cooler weather and fall colours are starting here in eastern Ontario, the best time of year.
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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15853 on: September 28, 2023, 06:40:38 pm »

Every so often, people get fed up with something the government is, or is not, doing, saying the government is not representing them. And some start a backlash movement (like citizens united). However most of these movements rarely accomplish their purpose (although some do) and often morph into something they, the members of the group, would complain about were they not swept up in the group. That's the problem with every government/group, they are comprised of humans with each having their own bias and avarice. Then it's wash, rinse, repeat.

Funny thing is Trump is as close to an example of America's version of an oligarch as anyone I've seen. As previously stated, it confounds me why his followers just can't see it.

Does Pennsylvania include convicted criminals in that entitlement?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15854 on: September 28, 2023, 09:19:21 pm »

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Does Pennsylvania include convicted criminals in that entitlement?

Sorry, no idea.
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marvpelkey

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15855 on: September 29, 2023, 10:13:25 pm »

On a lighter note, a few weeks ago I had a conversation with a buddy about fan-craziness. This was prompted by me walking through a local mall when crowds of people started all walking quickly in the same direction. As it turned out, word had quickly spread of a (to me unknown/unrecognized) celebrity who had been spotted in another part of the mall. The celeb was more known and adored by a much younger age group than me.

Coincidently, I saw the recent media coverage over Taylor Swift's attendance to a recent football game, and how ticket prices to the next game(s) were raised, in anticipation of her re-attendance.

So, this prompts my question - Is there any (living) celebrity/person of interest that you would go out of your way to see? I don't mean to watch them perform or otherwise do their thing, but just to look at. During the a/m conversation, I could think of absolutely no-one that I would go out of my way to see. I would certainly pay and maybe travel, a bit, to see a performance by certain people, but I just don't get a persons crazy desire to go out of their way just to look at someone. But then I, seemingly, don't understand a lot of people these days.....
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15856 on: September 30, 2023, 06:50:14 am »

On a lighter note, a few weeks ago I had a conversation with a buddy about fan-craziness. This was prompted by me walking through a local mall when crowds of people started all walking quickly in the same direction. As it turned out, word had quickly spread of a (to me unknown/unrecognized) celebrity who had been spotted in another part of the mall. The celeb was more known and adored by a much younger age group than me.

Coincidently, I saw the recent media coverage over Taylor Swift's attendance to a recent football game, and how ticket prices to the next game(s) were raised, in anticipation of her re-attendance.

So, this prompts my question - Is there any (living) celebrity/person of interest that you would go out of your way to see? I don't mean to watch them perform or otherwise do their thing, but just to look at. During the a/m conversation, I could think of absolutely no-one that I would go out of my way to see. I would certainly pay and maybe travel, a bit, to see a performance by certain people, but I just don't get a persons crazy desire to go out of their way just to look at someone. But then I, seemingly, don't understand a lot of people these days.....

Hah!  Nobody I can think of, but there are a few that I'd try to avoid running into. :)
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15857 on: October 03, 2023, 08:42:59 am »

Re Trump's fraud trial, it can't be a good idea to be bad-mouthing your trial judge.
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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15858 on: October 03, 2023, 01:24:28 pm »

So, this prompts my question - Is there any (living) celebrity/person of interest that you would go out of your way to see? I don't mean to watch them perform or otherwise do their thing, but just to look at. During the a/m conversation, I could think of absolutely no-one that I would go out of my way to see. I would certainly pay and maybe travel, a bit, to see a performance by certain people, but I just don't get a persons crazy desire to go out of their way just to look at someone. But then I, seemingly, don't understand a lot of people these days.....

If I could interact with them I might be able to think of someone. I can think of some dead ones off the top of my head like Carl Sagan or Bertrand Russell. I wouldn't mind having a conversation with Neil deGrasse Tyson or Jimmy Chin. But if it was just to get a peek at them I'd be a lot less motivated.
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PeterAit

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #15859 on: October 03, 2023, 04:10:27 pm »

Re Trump's fraud trial, it can't be a good idea to be bad-mouthing your trial judge.

Could Trump be setting up grounds for an appeal? "The judge couldn't be impartial because I badmouthed him."
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