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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1288533 times)

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13020 on: December 27, 2021, 12:04:30 pm »

Hey, Alan, you still eat beef, right?  Here's how your "free markets" are taking care of the people who actually grow the animals you eat.

In a nutshell, as a result of the free market, retail beef prices are skyrocketing, ranchers are contemplating suicide and the meatpackers are enjoying record profits.

As usual, the death of ranching all began with Reagan and deregulation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/27/business/beef-prices-cattle-ranchers.html
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13021 on: December 27, 2021, 12:13:51 pm »

Hey, Alan, you still eat beef, right? 
A lot of crow.  ;D
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13022 on: December 27, 2021, 12:51:48 pm »

Hey, Alan, you still eat beef, right?  Here's how your "free markets" are taking care of the people who actually grow the animals you eat.

In a nutshell, as a result of the free market, retail beef prices are skyrocketing, ranchers are contemplating suicide and the meatpackers are enjoying record profits.

As usual, the death of ranching all began with Reagan and deregulation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/27/business/beef-prices-cattle-ranchers.html

Along those lines I read an article recently (but I didn't note the author nor in what publication it appeared, so this post is itself somewhat suspect) in which the author talked about the truck driver shortage in UK (lorry driver then, I suppose). His thesis was that wages and benefits for truckers have been steadily getting worse for some time and so it is no surprise that fewer people want the work. I am certain that there are many other factors at play, nothing ever happens in isolation. Isn't it odd how supply and demand never quite works the way it says in those first-year economics textbooks or in Alan's posts.  :)


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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13023 on: December 27, 2021, 01:01:49 pm »

Holiday sales rise 8.5 percent despite omicron, supply chain woes. Additionally, holidays sales were up 10.7 percent from the 2019 holiday season,

That should be good for Amazon share price, but for some reason it dropped today.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13024 on: December 27, 2021, 01:03:44 pm »

That should be good for Amazon share price, but for some reason it dropped today.
Well that's Biden's fault of course.  ;D
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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13025 on: December 27, 2021, 01:04:14 pm »

That should be good for Amazon share price, but for some reason it dropped today.

Maybe they were hoping for 9.5% and 11.7% respectively so investors were disappointed. :)
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13026 on: December 27, 2021, 01:19:34 pm »

Maybe they were hoping for 9.5% and 11.7% respectively so investors were disappointed. :)
Mystery! However, the other tech company which irks TechTalk rallied by $45.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 01:29:28 pm by LesPalenik »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13027 on: December 27, 2021, 01:44:02 pm »

There are no companies that irk me. Obsession and compulsion are boring to me, but that's about the scope of it.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13028 on: December 27, 2021, 02:08:55 pm »

Hey, Alan, you still eat beef, right?  Here's how your "free markets" are taking care of the people who actually grow the animals you eat.

In a nutshell, as a result of the free market, retail beef prices are skyrocketing, ranchers are contemplating suicide and the meatpackers are enjoying record profits.

As usual, the death of ranching all began with Reagan and deregulation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/27/business/beef-prices-cattle-ranchers.html
Actually it started with Nixon when he went off the gold standard in 1971 and went to fiat currency.  The value of the dollar to let's say the Japanese yen went from 360 yen per dollar to around 120 yen in twenty years.  The dollar was only worth 1/3 of it's value as compared to when we were on the gold standard. 

Prices going up have to do with the Fed printing and Congress spending more than it receives from taxes.  Also, the Fed currently sets interest rates.  If the free market was allowed to set them, there would be less inflation and lower prices for everything.  People and businesses wouldn't;t be able to borrow as much adding to inflation. It's because we do not have a free market, and the government interferes too much,  that we have such inflation and higher prices, and other economic problems. 
https://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates.php?A=1&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD1=11&MM1=01&YYYY1=1970&B=1&P=&I=1&DD2=11&MM2=01&YYYY2=1990&btnOK=Go%21

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13029 on: December 27, 2021, 02:19:35 pm »

Along those lines I read an article recently (but I didn't note the author nor in what publication it appeared, so this post is itself somewhat suspect) in which the author talked about the truck driver shortage in UK (lorry driver then, I suppose). His thesis was that wages and benefits for truckers have been steadily getting worse for some time and so it is no surprise that fewer people want the work. I am certain that there are many other factors at play, nothing ever happens in isolation. Isn't it odd how supply and demand never quite works the way it says in those first-year economics textbooks or in Alan's posts.  :)



We don't have lorry drivers in the US.  That's why there's a shortage.  ;)

Well, maybe it has to do with the fact that the government has given out so much unemployment insurance, that it didn't pay to go back to work.  Why work when you can stay home and develop your negatives and still get paid?  Every time the government shuts down businesses, like now, employees apply for unemployment insurance.  Plus there were BBB and other giveaways from the government.  My wife and I got money from the government even though we're retired and get SS and pensions.  It paid for additional lenses for my new view camera.  What was the point in that?  Not that I'm giving it back.  Thank you taxpayers.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13030 on: December 27, 2021, 02:23:07 pm »

Oh.  My bagel and cream cheese just went up 17%. They seemed to have plenty of workers in the bagel shop. 

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13031 on: December 27, 2021, 02:33:14 pm »

Oh.  My bagel and cream cheese just went up 17%. They seemed to have plenty of workers in the bagel shop.

Check your BMI or percentage of body fat Alan  :P:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/health/covid-fat-obesity.html
Quote
The research may help explain why people who are overweight and obese have been at higher risk of severe illness and death from Covid.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13032 on: December 27, 2021, 02:52:29 pm »

Just to clear up who did what during vaccine development...

...Operation Warp Speed...

Operation Warp Speed didn't come into being until May 15, 2020. Is that when you believe an all out effort began on new vaccines? The initial legislation that provided billions in funding to BARDA to jump-start vaccine development was the Coronavirus Preparedness and Response Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2020 which was enacted March 6, 2020. Much was written about this before and after the passage of the bill, but since you like Wikipedia, let's start there.

The Coronavirus Preparedness and Response Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2020 (H.R. 6074) is an act of Congress enacted on March 6, 2020. The legislation provided emergency supplemental appropriations of $8.3 billion in fiscal year 2020 to combat the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) and counter the COVID-19 pandemic, particularly the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States. The legislation passed the House 415–2 on March 4 and the Senate 96–1 on March 5, 2020. The legislation received broad bipartisan support. [Legislation introduced on March 4th and passed in both houses by the following day with nearly unanimous votes. Now that's warp speed!]

• Introduced in the House as the "Coronavirus Preparedness and Response Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2020" (H.R. 6074) by Nita Lowey (D-NY) on March 4, 2020
• Committee consideration by Appropriations
• Passed the House on March 4, 2020 (415–2)
• Passed the Senate on March 5, 2020 (96–1)
• Signed into law by President Donald Trump on March 6, 2020

On February 24, 2020, the Trump administration asked Congress for $2.5 billion in emergency funding to combat the pandemic. The Republican chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, Richard Shelby of Alabama, criticized the $2.5 billion as a "low ball" request. "Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle were alarmed by what they deemed as the president’s paltry request to fight the bug amid criticism that his administration has bungled its response and failed to keep the American people clued in about the potential severity of the outbreak." Shortly after the Trump administration requested the $2.5 billion, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer unveiled a plan for "$8.5 billion in emergency funding to combat the coronavirus."

The bill includes $8.3 billion in emergency funding to combat the COVID-19 pandemic. The $8.3 billion is divided into $7.8 billion in discretionary appropriations and $500 million in mandatory spending. The $500 million is for "Medicare telehealth mandatory spending, which would allow Medicare providers to furnish telemedicine services to seniors."

Broken down by category, the bill provides funding for the following purposes:

More than $3 billion for "research and development of vaccines, as well as therapeutics and diagnostics
• $2.2 billion "in public health funding to aid in prevention, preparedness and response efforts — including $950 million to support state and local agencies
• Almost $1 billion for "medical supplies, health-care preparedness, Community Health Centers and medical surge capacity
• $1.25 billion to fight COVID-19 internationally.

House

On March 4, 2020, the bill passed the House on an overwhelming 415–2 vote. Only two members, both Republicans, voted against the legislation: Representative Andy Biggs of Arizona and Representative Ken Buck of Colorado.

On the House floor shortly before the vote on the bill, Democratic Representative Nita Lowey, the sponsor of the bill and the chairwoman of the House Appropriations Committee, said, "While we all ardently hope that this public health emergency does not worsen, House Democrats will not hesitate to act again if we must augment this funding with more resources."

During the vote on the measure in the House, Republican Representative Matt Gaetz of Florida wore a gas mask on the House floor. Gaetz told journalists that "members of congress are human petri dishes." Gaetz received criticism from Representative Bobby Rush for "making light" of the coronavirus pandemic, and also from Walter Shaub, the former director of the United States Office of Government Ethics, who stated "Matt Gaetz mocked fear over the coronavirus."

Senate

On March 5, 2020, the bill passed the Senate by a 96–1 vote. Three senators—Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, and Senator Mike Enzi of Wyoming—did not vote. Sanders was campaigning for the 2020 Democratic nomination for president, while Warren ended her own campaign for the Democratic nomination the same day.

The lone Senator to vote against the bill was Rand Paul of Kentucky. Paul had proposed an amendment that would have offset some of the coronavirus funding with cuts to State Department Cultural Exchange programs and USAID. Paul threatened to block the coronavirus legislation if his amendment did not receive a vote. The amendment failed on a 80–16 vote.

President

On March 6, 2020, President Trump signed the bill into law in the Diplomatic Reception Room at the White House. At the time of signing, President Trump stated "So we’re signing the $8.3 billion. I asked for 2.5 and I got 8.3, and I’ll take it" and "So here we are, $8.3 billion. We’re doing very well. But it’s an unforeseen problem. What a problem. Came out of nowhere, but we’re taking care of it."

President Trump signed the bill on the same day that global coronavirus cases surpassed 100,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_Preparedness_and_Response_Supplemental_Appropriations_Act,_2020

[So, thanks for clearing up that Operation Warp Speed didn't join the party until it was well under way. Scientists were already working on converting the previous several years of work on mRNA technology to deliver COVID-19 vaccines before any additional government funding was passed and the funding started well before Trump's May 15th branding and marketing of what in other national emergencies presidents have simply called a White House task force.]
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13033 on: December 27, 2021, 03:07:09 pm »

Sorry.  President Trump gets the credit for getting the vaccines out in record time just as President Biden will get the credit when Covid ends.  Each president lives on the accomplishments of work done by others before they became president.

Additionally, each president puts their fingerprints on what happens during their administration.  Operation Warp Speed sped up the discovery process and prepurchased vaccines to get vaccinations going quickly.  That was Trump's accomplishment.  You argued before that BARDA did most of the work leaving out the fact that its director was fired by Trump because he was dragging his feet.  These are the things presidents get credit and blame for.  So far Biden hasn't done much.  I hope for the safety of the public, and my health especially, he does more.  I will give him all the credit he deserves when he does. 

Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13034 on: December 27, 2021, 03:22:02 pm »

Actually it started with Nixon when he went off the gold standard in 1971 and went to fiat currency.  The value of the dollar to let's say the Japanese yen went from 360 yen per dollar to around 120 yen in twenty years.  The dollar was only worth 1/3 of it's value as compared to when we were on the gold standard. 

Prices going up have to do with the Fed printing and Congress spending more than it receives from taxes.  Also, the Fed currently sets interest rates.  If the free market was allowed to set them, there would be less inflation and lower prices for everything.  People and businesses wouldn't;t be able to borrow as much adding to inflation. It's because we do not have a free market, and the government interferes too much,  that we have such inflation and higher prices, and other economic problems. 
https://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates.php?A=1&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD1=11&MM1=01&YYYY1=1970&B=1&P=&I=1&DD2=11&MM2=01&YYYY2=1990&btnOK=Go%21

Utter and complete crap, Alan.  As usual.

You totally ignore the basic premise of the article which is that domination of the market by four major entities has resulted in high prices for the consumer, near starvation for the producers and record profits for the four dominant corporations. 

This resulted from deregulation and de-fanging of long established anti-trust legislation. 

It has precisely zero to do with fiat currencies, interest rates and foreign exchange.

And you wonder why we continue to denigrate you and your "discussion".  Your tactics betray ignorance, prejudice and utter lack of debating and reading skills.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13035 on: December 27, 2021, 03:44:17 pm »

You argued before that BARDA did most of the work leaving out the fact that its director was fired by Trump because he was dragging his feet.

There is no argument. I stated the fact that BARDA is the agency that did the work of evaluating, funding, and expediting vaccine production among other projects in their portfolio. It is exactly the job BARDA was created to do in 2006 and that is also a fact.

BARDA, like any other agency, has employees that do their job every day regardless of who the director is or what administration they are working for at the time. The director you've referred to is Rick Bright.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Bright

Rick Arthur Bright is an American immunologist, vaccine researcher, and public health official. He was the director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) from 2016 to 2020. In May 2020, he filed a whistleblower complaint, alleging that the Trump administration ignored his early warnings about the COVID-19 pandemic and illegally retaliated against him by ousting him from his role and demoting him to a position at the National Institutes of Health. On October 6, 2020, Bright resigned from the government. On November 9 he was named a member of President-elect Joe Biden's coronavirus advisory board.

In October 29, 2019, two months prior to the Covid-19 pandemic, Bright participated in a meeting titled "Universal Flu Vaccine" at the Milken Institute School of Public Health with other government officials, including Anthony Fauci. The meeting discussed a perceived need to "blow up the system" in-order to bypass regulatory control on mRNA vaccines. Participants also discussed the need to create an "aura of excitement" and "make influenza sexy" in order to revive government funding and drive production of mRNA vaccines, which Bright and others considered superior to "traditional egg-based vaccines".

On April 20, 2020, in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States, Bright was reassigned to the National Institutes of Health. An HHS spokesperson said Bright's new role would be to help "accelerate the development and deployment of novel point-of-care testing platforms". Bright challenged his transfer, stating that it was retaliation his insistence that the government address the pandemic by investing the billions of dollars allocated by Congress for that purpose in supplies and "safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit." He said such unproven drugs were being promoted by individuals with political connections and that he resisted these endeavors, which he called "cronyism."

In his complaint, he asked to be reinstated as director at BARDA, accusing the Trump administration of removing him from his position and demoting him to an NIH post in retaliation for his warnings about the virus and his opposition to off-label use of hydroxychloroquine, an antimalarial drug that was promoted by President Donald Trump and his supporters as a potential miracle drug for COVID-19, but which increased mortality in subjects. Bright characterized his transfer as a retaliatory demotion and asked the HHS Inspector General to investigate it. On October 6 Bright resigned from the federal government.

On May 7, 2020, the U.S. Office of Special Counsel determined that there were "reasonable grounds to believe" that the Trump administration's HHS had unlawfully retaliated against Bright, in violation of the Whistleblower Protection Act, "because he made protected disclosures in the best interest of the American public." The office recommended that he be reinstated as head of BARDA while the investigation is undertaken. However, the recommendation was not binding on HHS, and he was not reinstated.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13036 on: December 27, 2021, 03:46:08 pm »

Utter and complete crap, Alan.  As usual.

You totally ignore the basic premise of the article which is that domination of the market by four major entities has resulted in high prices for the consumer, near starvation for the producers and record profits for the four dominant corporations. 

This resulted from deregulation and de-fanging of long established anti-trust legislation. 

It has precisely zero to do with fiat currencies, interest rates and foreign exchange.

And you wonder why we continue to denigrate you and your "discussion".  Your tactics betray ignorance, prejudice and utter lack of debating and reading skills.
Temprary and transitory effects on the economy do not cause general across-the-board price rises or for that matter lower prices in certain industries.  Causes for higher prices could include war, disease, shutdowns, strikes, monopolies, blockades, oil embargoes, etc.  Lower prices can be caused by better technology,  more discoveries, increased suppliers, better production methods, etc.  These things cause prices to fluctuate up and down all the time.  Higher costs in one area tend to reduce prices in others as there's less demand there because people are spending more in higher-priced areas.

However, what causes general price rises is when more money is available than production can absorb.  That's what makes it bad now.  Not only are we printing too much.  There's less production in goods and services to absorb the extra money.  That leaves all that extra money floating around to push up prices on everything including labor as well as goods. It bids up the prices of everything. That happens when the Fed or any central bank inflates the money supply as often happens to support deficit spending of government. 

Did the price of my bagel and cream cheese go up 17% because of some monopoly? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13037 on: December 27, 2021, 03:54:47 pm »

There is no argument. I stated the fact that BARDA is the agency that did the work of evaluating, funding, and expediting vaccine production among other projects in their portfolio. It is exactly the job BARDA was created to do in 2006 and that is also a fact.

BARDA, like any other agency, has employees that do their job every day regardless of who the director is or what administration they are working for at the time. The director you've referred to is Rick Bright.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Bright

Rick Arthur Bright is an American immunologist, vaccine researcher, and public health official. He was the director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA) from 2016 to 2020. In May 2020, he filed a whistleblower complaint, alleging that the Trump administration ignored his early warnings about the COVID-19 pandemic and illegally retaliated against him by ousting him from his role and demoting him to a position at the National Institutes of Health. On October 6, 2020, Bright resigned from the government. On November 9 he was named a member of President-elect Joe Biden's coronavirus advisory board.

In October 29, 2019, two months prior to the Covid-19 pandemic, Bright participated in a meeting titled "Universal Flu Vaccine" at the Milken Institute School of Public Health with other government officials, including Anthony Fauci. The meeting discussed a perceived need to "blow up the system" in-order to bypass regulatory control on mRNA vaccines. Participants also discussed the need to create an "aura of excitement" and "make influenza sexy" in order to revive government funding and drive production of mRNA vaccines, which Bright and others considered superior to "traditional egg-based vaccines".

On April 20, 2020, in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States, Bright was reassigned to the National Institutes of Health. An HHS spokesperson said Bright's new role would be to help "accelerate the development and deployment of novel point-of-care testing platforms". Bright challenged his transfer, stating that it was retaliation his insistence that the government address the pandemic by investing the billions of dollars allocated by Congress for that purpose in supplies and "safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit." He said such unproven drugs were being promoted by individuals with political connections and that he resisted these endeavors, which he called "cronyism."

In his complaint, he asked to be reinstated as director at BARDA, accusing the Trump administration of removing him from his position and demoting him to an NIH post in retaliation for his warnings about the virus and his opposition to off-label use of hydroxychloroquine, an antimalarial drug that was promoted by President Donald Trump and his supporters as a potential miracle drug for COVID-19, but which increased mortality in subjects. Bright characterized his transfer as a retaliatory demotion and asked the HHS Inspector General to investigate it. On October 6 Bright resigned from the federal government.

On May 7, 2020, the U.S. Office of Special Counsel determined that there were "reasonable grounds to believe" that the Trump administration's HHS had unlawfully retaliated against Bright, in violation of the Whistleblower Protection Act, "because he made protected disclosures in the best interest of the American public." The office recommended that he be reinstated as head of BARDA while the investigation is undertaken. However, the recommendation was not binding on HHS, and he was not reinstated.
You made my point.  Bright was against what his boss President Trump wanted to be done and which Trump accomplished by the end of 2020 without Bright - getting vaccines out to the general public.  Bright would have dragged his feet and you would be now complaining that Trump was late with the vaccines like Biden is late with the test kits.  Who knows when the vaccines would have been available if Trump allowed him to continue running BARDA?  Bright deserved to be fired. 

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13038 on: December 27, 2021, 03:58:32 pm »

Temprary and transitory effects on the economy do not cause general across-the-board price rises or for that matter lower prices in certain industries.  Causes for higher prices could include war, disease, shutdowns, strikes, monopolies, blockades, oil embargoes, etc.  Lower prices can be caused by better technology,  more discoveries, increased suppliers, better production methods, etc.  These things cause prices to fluctuate up and down all the time.  Higher costs in one area tend to reduce prices in others as there's less demand there because people are spending more in higher-priced areas.

However, what causes general price rises is when more money is available than production can absorb.  That's what makes it bad now.  Not only are we printing too much.  There's less production in goods and services to absorb the extra money.  That leaves all that extra money floating around to push up prices on everything including labor as well as goods. It bids up the prices of everything. That happens when the Fed or any central bank inflates the money supply as often happens to support deficit spending of government. 

Did the price of my bagel and cream cheese go up 17% because of some monopoly?

17% is a substantial hit. One way to counteract it to get a goat and a few chickens. Did the pensioners get any raise in their pensions this year?
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13039 on: December 27, 2021, 03:59:55 pm »

You made my point.

You can believe whatever you wish.
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