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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1288583 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13000 on: December 26, 2021, 06:53:43 pm »

Poor old Trump:
Quote
Donald Trump is backing the COVID-19 vaccine because he is "old," the conservative activist Candace Owens suggested to her followers this week.
"People oftentimes forget, like, how old Trump is," she said in an Instagram video posted Thursday. "Like they came from a time before TV, before internet, before being able to conduct their independent research."
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13001 on: December 26, 2021, 07:18:05 pm »

Being manufactured by various private companies. Some of them were developed thru government research grants, but they're privately manufactured.

Fortunately, scientists and the government agencies that fund and support their research do NOT think the way that you do. If they did, we wouldn't have the vaccines that we have now. They were developed over many years with a great deal of government support.

You can flail about all you like. It's not very good cover for your repeatedly jumping to conclusions; inability to understand what you read, including articles to which you link; and hasty confused replies.

He's not competent? Check the mirror.
Vaccines are also privately manufactured.  But Trump got them to Americans months, some say years before most people said that was possible.  Biden doesn't seem to operate with the same emergency, time is of the essence mentality.  He woke up a day late and a dollar short when it came to test kits.   

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13002 on: December 26, 2021, 07:20:39 pm »

Quote
before internet, before being able to conduct their independent research.

...before just being able to make up crap and post it online.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13003 on: December 26, 2021, 07:22:16 pm »

Vaccines are also privately manufactured.  But Trump got them to Americans months, some say years before most people said that was possible.  Biden doesn't seem to operate with the same emergency, time is of the essence mentality.  He woke up a day late and a dollar short when it came to test kits.   

You can keep that merry-go-round spinning with your repetition. I'm done.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13004 on: December 26, 2021, 07:23:55 pm »

...before just being able to make up crap and post it online.
Perfect example:
But Trump got them to Americans months, some say years before most people said that was possible.
The man is utterly lost.
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Chris Kern

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13005 on: December 26, 2021, 08:42:43 pm »

But Trump got them to Americans months, some say years before most people said that was possible.

Perfect example:The man is utterly lost.

True, but more precisely he has a primitive understanding of how the U.S. federal government actually operates.  He seems to think that because presidents sometimes announce programs developed within the federal bureaucracy, they must have taken part in the decisions that led to them.  I've seen no evidence Trump even knew about the federal inter-agency plan to pump large amounts of money into SARS-CoV-2 vaccine production until the day he was given a public statement to make about it.  But the belief that whatever happens during a president's term in office is attributable to decisions made by that president, simple-minded though it may be, is often reported as reality by even credible news media — so it's certainly not surprising that a supporter of a particular president would make such a claim and possibly believe it, and even embellish it with with transparently fabricated assertions such as "some say years before most people said that was possible."

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13006 on: December 26, 2021, 09:53:39 pm »

Vaccines are also privately manufactured.  But Trump got them to Americans months, some say years before most people said that was possible.  Biden doesn't seem to operate with the same emergency, time is of the essence mentality.  He woke up a day late and a dollar short when it came to test kits.   

I guess he made a decision to fund the vaccine research after intensive reading.
In his next speech, Trump will say that he saved also Tesla by getting them the much needed semiconductors before the other car makers could lay their hands on them.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13007 on: December 27, 2021, 12:04:56 am »

Trump will say that he saved also Tesla by getting them the much needed semiconductors before the other car makers could lay their hands on them.

Of course.  That's because (just like Alan) he knows more about semiconductors than anybody else in the world.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13008 on: December 27, 2021, 01:00:39 am »

I was wondering when and how Tesla would make its entrance into the play, but I knew Les could do it!
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13009 on: December 27, 2021, 01:16:37 am »

I was wondering when and how Tesla would make its entrance into the play, but I knew Les could do it!

I aim to please.

Actually, Trump spoke favourably about Elon Musk. Somewhat incoherrently, but nevertheless positively. Unlike the current president.

Quote
KERNEN: Tesla's now worth more than GM and Ford. Do you have comments on Elon Musk?
TRUMP: Well -- you have to give him credit. I spoke to him very recently, and he's also doing the rockets. He likes rockets. And -- he does good at rockets too, by the way. I never saw where the engines come down with no wings, no anything, and they're landing. I said I've never seen that before. And I was worried about him, because he's one of our great geniuses, and we have to protect our genius. You know, we have to protect Thomas Edison and we have to protect all of these people that -- came up with originally the light bulb and -- the wheel and all of these things. And he's one of our very smart people and we want to-- we want to cherish those people.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/23/politics/donald-trump-elon-musk-einstein/index.html
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 07:21:21 am by LesPalenik »
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13010 on: December 27, 2021, 04:42:12 am »

Netflix is showing a good movie by Adam McKay called "Don't Look Up". It's a satiric disaster comedy with good cast and quite timely for the current state of affairs.
The movie doesn't end well, but it is quite hillarious and it addresses many subjects discussed in the Coffee Corner or reported by the main stream media - giant telescope, celestial object, rockets, scientists, antiscientists, misanthropical TV personalities, government conspiracy, manipulable great unwashed masses, looting, and a clueless and corrupt president. Without disclosing any more details, Meryl Streep is a riot and gives a great performance.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13011 on: December 27, 2021, 07:30:04 am »

Netflix is showing a good movie by Adam McKay called "Don't Look Up". It's a satiric disaster comedy with good cast and quite timely for the current state of affairs.
The movie doesn't end well, but it is quite hillarious and it addresses many subjects discussed in the Coffee Corner or reported by the main stream media - giant telescope, celestial object, rockets, scientists, antiscientists, misanthropical TV personalities, government conspiracy, manipulable great unwashed masses, looting, and a clueless and corrupt president. Without disclosing any more details, Meryl Streep is a riot and gives a great performance.

A documentary?
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LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13012 on: December 27, 2021, 07:37:10 am »

A documentary?
Not a documentary, it is a bizarre political/scifi satire. But it draws on many current events. I liked it.

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13013 on: December 27, 2021, 08:32:53 am »

You can keep that merry-go-round spinning with your repetition. I'm done.
You can run.  But you can't hide.

Joe Biden's polling malaise continues
Chris Cillizza
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large
Updated 6:32 PM ET, Wed December 22, 2021
Biden's early months in office, when his job approval regularly hit the mid-50s, feel like a thousand years ago now. Four straight months in the low 40s should worry Biden, but it should worry Democrats set to be on the ballot next November even more.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/22/politics/joe-biden-polling-public-approval/index.html

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13014 on: December 27, 2021, 08:54:47 am »

True, but more precisely he has a primitive understanding of how the U.S. federal government actually operates.  He seems to think that because presidents sometimes announce programs developed within the federal bureaucracy, they must have taken part in the decisions that led to them.  I've seen no evidence Trump even knew about the federal inter-agency plan to pump large amounts of money into SARS-CoV-2 vaccine production until the day he was given a public statement to make about it.  But the belief that whatever happens during a president's term in office is attributable to decisions made by that president, simple-minded though it may be, is often reported as reality by even credible news media — so it's certainly not surprising that a supporter of a particular president would make such a claim and possibly believe it, and even embellish it with with transparently fabricated assertions such as "some say years before most people said that was possible."
Trump got it done way before anyone thought it possible even if you refuse to believe it for political reasons and despite your demeaning comments about me.  When you have to resort to personal attacks, then I know your factual arguments are weak.  Here's an article from Live Science on April 16, 2020, early in Covid right before Operation Warp Speed was established (Apr 29, 2020).  IZt shows the thinking at the time for when the vaccines could be ready. It took less than 8 months to release the first vaccine in Dec, 2020, never mine the summer of 2021 or later.  Even Biden recently credited Trump for getting the deal done.  Apparently Biden's beliefs aren't acceptable to you either? 

When will a COVID-19 vaccine be ready?
By Nicoletta Lanese published April 16, 2020
Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, recently said that a COVID-19 could take 12 to 18 months to develop, test and approve for public use. But new vaccines typically take years to earn approval — can we really expect a coronavirus vaccine to be ready by summer 2021?     

Experts told Live Science that, for any other vaccine, the timeline would be unrealistic. But given the current pressure to stave off the pandemic, a COVID-19 vaccine could be ready sooner, as long as scientists and regulatory agencies prove willing to take a few shortcuts.

Here's why it probably can't be developed any sooner than 12 to 18 months.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13015 on: December 27, 2021, 09:14:09 am »

https://www.healthaffairs.org/It Was The Government That Produced COVID-19 Vaccine Success

It Was The Government That Produced COVID-19 Vaccine Success

The success of the US COVID-19 vaccine effort didn’t happen on its own; it was enabled by decades of long-term investments by the federal government, followed by additional federal investment in the development of the COVID-19 vaccines themselves. The government invested extensively in every aspect of the basic science, preclinical development, and clinical trials for the vaccines; it executed procurement contracts that were critical to creating successful vaccines and ensuring they were available to the US public.

In the case of vaccines in general, the government often plays an outsized role, but in the era of COVID-19 the government’s role was even more central than usual. The government essentially removed the bulk of traditional industry risks related to vaccine development: a) scientific failures, b) failures to demonstrate safety and efficacy, c) manufacturing risks; and d) market risks related to low demand.

Since 2000, taxpayer dollars have financed the development of various vaccine platforms for HIV, pandemic flu, and other threats to public health. In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the government leveraged investments in those platforms in three ways. First, it supported additional preclinical studies. Second, it absorbed the bulk of human testing costs and risk through a set of contracts that paid for the various phases of vaccine development and manufacturing. And third, it reduced manufacturing risk by underwriting capacity investments.

Estimates of direct public spending on the development and manufacturing of COVID-19 vaccines vary considerably based on the range of sources examined and the timing of data collection. Recent estimates from the Congressional Research Service, the Government Accountability Office, and Chad Brown and Thomas Bollyky along with data on the GHIAA.org and Devex websites provide government spending estimates of between $18 billion and $23 billion. Most recently the Congressional Budget Office estimated that the Biomedical Research and Development Authority (BARDA) alone has spent $19.3 billion on COVID-19 vaccine development. In addition, Lisa Cornish projected $39.5 billion in US spending.

These funds, which have attenuated industry risk in developing COVID-19 vaccines, are on top of years of government-funded vaccine research that set the platforms for the current successes.

Likewise, BARDA has for years invested in the messenger RNA (or mRNA) platform for vaccine development, the technology used in the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines. Since 2006, Congress has appropriated hundreds of millions of dollars that BARDA used to develop the scientific infrastructure to produce vaccines in response to the threat of pandemic flu. Thus, the basic research undergirding the COVID-19 vaccines was largely publicly supported.

More at link above...


Just to clear up who did what during vaccine development.  BARDA was so behind the times and inadequately managed, Trump "fired" its Director and installed someone more positive and less politically motivated to develop vaccines quickly.  In any case, BARDA was the conduit through which government funding flowed. There were many agencies involved in Operation Warp Speed.


Operation Warp Speed used BARDA as the financial interface between the U.S. federal government and the biomedical industry.[20] The program was initially being funded with $10 billion,[1] with additional funds allocated through BARDA.[1] Funding was increased to about $18 billion by October 2020.[21]

Operation Warp Speed, initially funded with about $10 billion from the CARES Act (Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security) passed by the United States Congress on March 27,[1] was an interagency program that includes components of the Department of Health and Human Services, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Food and Drug Administration, the National Institutes of Health, and the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA); the Department of Defense; private firms; and other federal agencies, including the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Energy, and the Department of Veterans Affairs.[1]

Rick Bright, the BARDA director, was reassigned on or about April 22, 2020, following his resistance to (as he phrased it) "efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections".[22] In May, new leadership was announced. Moncef Slaoui was named Operation Warp Speed's chief adviser.[1][9] Slaoui is a vaccine researcher and, formerly, Chairman of Global Research and Development and Chairman of Global Vaccines at GlaxoSmithKline, where he led the development of five vaccines.
[1] General Gustave F. Perna, who served as commanding general of Army Materiel Command, was named Operation Warp Speed chief operating officer.[1][23] Retired Lieutenant General Paul A. Ostrowski, who previously served as director of the Army Acquisition Corps, was the director of supply, production and distribution.[24][25] Army Major General Christopher J. Sharpsten was the deputy director.[26][27]

Alex Azar, Mark Esper, and Deborah Birx were on the board of directors of OWS, while Tony Fauci, Francis Collins, and Robert Redfield were nonvoting advisers.[28][/i]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13016 on: December 27, 2021, 09:31:22 am »

Trump got it done way before anyone thought it possible even if you refuse to believe it for political reasons and despite your demeaning comments about me.  When you have to resort to personal attacks, then I know your factual arguments are weak.  Here's an article from Live Science on April 16, 2020, early in Covid right before Operation Warp Speed was established (Apr 29, 2020).  IZt shows the thinking at the time for when the vaccines could be ready. It took less than 8 months to release the first vaccine in Dec, 2020, never mine the summer of 2021 or later.  Even Biden recently credited Trump for getting the deal done.  Apparently Biden's beliefs aren't acceptable to you either? 

Trump had no conviction for the development of covid vaccine. If anything, he bungled it badly. Why would he otherwise promote bleach, hydroxychloroquine, Convalescent plasma and horse dewormer?

Quote
To many public-health experts, it is clear that the Trump administration’s persistent meddling is responsible for the disastrous way in which the pandemic has unfolded in the United States. “Some of it is probably real and some of it is probably supposition,” Georges Benjamin, the executive director of the American Public Health Association in Washington DC, says of the media reports about interference. “But at the end of the day, this has been one of the worst risk-communications processes that I’ve ever seen. And I think that’s tragic.”

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03035-4
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13017 on: December 27, 2021, 10:14:13 am »

Trump had no conviction for the development of covid vaccine. If anything, he bungled it badly. Why would he otherwise promote bleach, hydroxychloroquine, Convalescent plasma and horse dewormer?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03035-4
Les, the article (I presented) and history indicate the opposite.  He pushed vaccines and stated over and over he was going to get them done quickly.  And he did. Democrats were the ones objecting to his timetable because it was an election year. They didn't want him to get any credit so they downplayed his projections.  Remember the election was early Nov 2020, before vaccines were approved. How was it bungled? He beat everyone's timetable.

As far as those chemicals he promoted, they weren't vaccines.  He thought, incorrectly, they had possibilities to help patients once they got sick or help prevent infections in other ways.  What does that have to do with vaccines?  There are different avenues to defeating Covid.  Didn't they just come out with a pill to save patients infected with Covid? 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13018 on: December 27, 2021, 10:19:08 am »

Trump had no conviction for the development of covid vaccine. If anything, he bungled it badly. Why would he otherwise promote bleach, hydroxychloroquine, Convalescent plasma and horse dewormer?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03035-4
By the way, Les, to provide an article that was released Nov 3, 2020, by biased writers, a few days before the presidential election is pretty biased.  Of course, there were loads of political hit jobs against him especially right before the election.  You can do better than that. 

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #13019 on: December 27, 2021, 11:26:33 am »

Holiday sales rise 8.5 percent despite omicron, supply chain woes. Additionally, holidays sales were up 10.7 percent from the 2019 holiday season,
Thank you President Trump.
Oh wait...😂
That's how blame works.  The CEO takes the heat.
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