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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1357600 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12880 on: December 21, 2021, 08:44:21 pm »

The repairmen like those helicopter and boat sea trips. Especially on nice summer days.
What's not to like when they're going to get paid extra for offshore work?

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12881 on: December 21, 2021, 09:01:16 pm »

One of the most interesting grid/utility scale energy storage technologies that I've been following is Cryogenic Liquid Air Energy Storage. Highview Power has developed this technology and has built a full scale operating demonstration system in the UK. They have plans for additional energy storage plants in the UK, United States, Latin America, and Spain.

What's interesting about this is that it uses the well known mature technology and process of gas liquefaction, that is used for storing liquified natural gas for example, along with off the shelf industrial components and ties them together in a clever way to store and produce energy using large tanks and turbines. It does this relatively cheaply and the price decreases with scale. It is also easily scalable by adding more storage tanks for energy or adding turbines for power. Here's a 2-1/2-minute video that explains the process...

https://www.youtube.com/Highview Power Cryogenic Energy Storage System - Trailer

They have attracted investment from Sumitomo Heavy Industries and partnered with MAN Energy Solutions as a supplier of turbomachinery (turbines and compressors).

A couple of longer videos on Liquid Air Energy Storage...

https://www.youtube.com/Liquid Air Batteries. Literally energy from thin air. Seriously

https://www.youtube.com/Portable Liquid Air Power. A new boost for electric vehicles.
You or someone else mentioned this private firm a year or two or longer ago.  I checked into it then as I use to do energy management system when I was in business for myself and was very interested.  I just checked again and very little progress has been made with this company, just a couple of relatively small plants they started two years ago and a more recent go ahead.  They've been in business since 2006.  If this was a process that really worked well at low cost, more would have been accomplished by now in acceptance by the industry.

I just checked their website and all the projects listed currently were listed as I recalled two years ago on their site.  Other than receiving a few tens of millions in capital investment from Sumitomo Industries, not much is happening.  I wish them luck.
https://highviewpower.com/plants/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highview_Power

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12882 on: December 21, 2021, 09:05:16 pm »

Most of the Pacific Northwest is one ginormous battery. It charges during the spring freshet and then discharges all summer as we sell gigawatts to AZ to keep their AC running.  You're welcome.

https://www.bchydro.com/content/dam/BCHydro/customer-portal/documents/corporate/community/columbia-river-operations-summary-fall-2018.pdf
Maybe we could have re-rerouted the Keystone XL oil pipeline to LA and used it to transport your water. which they need desperately.   

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12883 on: December 21, 2021, 10:00:59 pm »

Maybe we could have re-rerouted the Keystone XL oil pipeline to LA and used it to transport your water. which they need desperately.
Whatever you do Alan, do not watch this!
For others, an interesting perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=SAsExSNfNXQ
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12884 on: December 21, 2021, 10:10:17 pm »

What's not to like when they're going to get paid extra for offshore work?

Wait, aren't there offshore oil and gas rigs now? Is it any harder to fly a helicopter to those than to windmills?
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12885 on: December 21, 2021, 10:13:40 pm »

And you believe that California, with a two-thirds Democratic supermajority in the state legislature, is not influencing how the maps are being drawn.  It's just coincidence that the new maps will eliminate two Republicans from the House of Representatives?
...

Admit it, you're among friends, you think that gerrymandering by whoever is in power is a good thing. You don't really like or want democracy, do you, especially when the wrong guys are elected. :)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 10:37:18 pm by Robert Roaldi »
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Robert

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12886 on: December 21, 2021, 10:17:29 pm »

Forgive this little aside but the subject of Tesla came up recently so I can't resist. This guy did not like his Tesla, https://carbuzz.com/news/fed-up-tesla-owner-blows-up-his-model-s. I had a car once I felt like that about.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12887 on: December 21, 2021, 11:57:38 pm »

Whatever you do Alan, do not watch this!
For others, an interesting perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=SAsExSNfNXQ

I believe I mentioned this concept earlier in this very thread.  The Columbia River, fourth largest river in North America.  It flows a zillion gallons a day of pure, fresh clean Canadian water across the border into Washington State.  We're done with it.  It's all yours.  You're welcome.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12888 on: December 22, 2021, 12:20:43 am »

You don't really like or want democracy, do you, especially when the wrong guys are elected. :)

I assume you'll get the same answer as last time...

We're a federal government, not a democracy.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12889 on: December 22, 2021, 01:08:20 am »

Speaking of the last time, if you haven't had enough of the repetitive energy discussion, you can read the same discussion all over again from May and June of this year. Today has been like watching the rerun of a miniseries for the sake of repeating the same circular arguments. Just start below and work your way forward thru days of the same rinse and repeat déjà vu.

Here are some facts.

Green Energy Makes German Electricity Prices Highest In Europe
Why do so few countries in Europe follow Germany in green electricity? The answer could lie in electricity prices:

Not only has electricity gotten expensive in these countries, but the supply is highly unreliable.
...
Germany’s massive 110 GW of installed solar and wind energy capacity produced next to nothing over a period of five days earlier this month, not even coming close to meeting the country’s demand:
...
300,000 households lose power: Fortunately, there were fossil and nuclear power plants available to keep the power grid from collapsing.

But there’s a problem: It’s very uneconomical to operate these conventional plants only part-time. The added costs end up being borne by the consumer.

And due to the high electricity rates, every year tens of thousands of German households see their power cut off due to unpaid electricity bills, read here and here.

https://climatechangedispatch.com/green-energy-makes-german-electricity-prices-highest-in-europe/

But you need fossil fuel plants as backup when the wind doesn't blow or the sun shine.  That's why green plants don't save money overall. 

In NYS last year, Gov Cuomo order a multi billion dollar plan to install wind generators off-shore.  That alone is going to cost thousands of dollars for each user and extra higher charges to maintain facilities in the ocean.  What he didn't mention is that they have to spend billions more to build fossil fuel plants to pick up the slack when the wind is not blowing.  The cost for those fossil fuel plants will be buried in KWH charges in everyone in the state's electric bills.  The utility will not be allowed to break out those costs as a separate line entry so they can hide the fact of the real costs for wind producing electricity.  So overall costs for electricity will go up, just like in Germany, even though more green energy will be used.  It's a scam.

Climate Change Dispatch? Seriously? Have you looked into this web site? It's almost as bad as Tucker Carlson. MediaFactCheck rates them Moderate on the conspiracy scale, "Quackery" on the pseudoscience scale, and Low on the Factual Reporting scale. Their conclusion? "Overall, we rate Climate Change Dispatch as a Conspiracy and Quackery level Pseudoscience source for the promotion of false or misleading information that is not in line with the consensus of science."

Seriously, Alan, how can you pay the slightest attention to this sort of "news" source?

Peter, The high cost of electricity in Germany due to green energy production is a well established fact.  You can check your own sources to confirm it.

and on and on and on...

Why change the bait when it worked so well the last time you used it at the fishing hole.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12890 on: December 22, 2021, 05:53:02 am »

Wait, aren't there offshore oil and gas rigs now? Is it any harder to fly a helicopter to those than to windmills?
I was just pointing out that it's more expensive to produce electricity from a wind plant offshore than a fossil fuel plant onshore or wind onshore, relatively speaking.  It's currently around three times the cost to produce electricity from off-shore wind vs on-shore wind in the USA. On shore combustion turbine is around 60% more costly per KWH than on shore wind but half the cost of offshore wind.  However, I don't think those wind costs include backup generation by a fossil fuel plant which would increase all green energy production than indicated. 

Here's an interesting comparison article of costs to produce electricity for all the various energy sources in different countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#Energy_Information_Administration_(2020)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12891 on: December 22, 2021, 05:58:59 am »

Admit it, you're among friends, you think that gerrymandering by whoever is in power is a good thing. You don't really like or want democracy, do you, especially when the wrong guys are elected. :)
I agree it would be better if the maps were drawn more fairly.  Having lived in two democratically-controlled states, NY and NJ, I've been punished by the democrats all my life with their map-drawing favoring their party.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12892 on: December 22, 2021, 06:01:57 am »

Forgive this little aside but the subject of Tesla came up recently so I can't resist. This guy did not like his Tesla, https://carbuzz.com/news/fed-up-tesla-owner-blows-up-his-model-s. I had a car once I felt like that about.
That's going to ruin Les's day.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12893 on: December 22, 2021, 06:06:35 am »

I believe I mentioned this concept earlier in this very thread.  The Columbia River, fourth largest river in North America.  It flows a zillion gallons a day of pure, fresh clean Canadian water across the border into Washington State.  We're done with it.  It's all yours.  You're welcome.
Thanks.  Fortunately, here on the East coast, we have our own reservoirs and rivers and don't have water supply issues for the most part.  Although once a few decades ago there was a drought.  We wound up with low flow showerheads and low flush toilets that always get stuffed up, another problem foisted on us by stupid politicians that is still in force today. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12894 on: December 22, 2021, 07:36:05 am »

I was just pointing out that it's more expensive to produce electricity from a wind plant offshore than a fossil fuel plant onshore or wind onshore, relatively speaking.  ...

Presumably there must be good reasons for placing wind farms offshore in the places where they do that, or they wouldn't do it. So, what other costs/benefits are you ignoring to arrive at your conclusion?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12895 on: December 22, 2021, 07:46:28 am »

Celebration of Kyle Rittenhouse, a modern "hero", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdUuVzLtf6w.


Some Paul Simon lyrics come to mind:

    Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
    Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you
    Woo, woo, woo
    What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson?
    Joltin' Joe has left and gone away




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Robert

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12896 on: December 22, 2021, 08:19:19 am »

So, what other costs/benefits are you ignoring to arrive at your conclusion?

A cost benefit analysis? I can see that you're an optimist!
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12897 on: December 22, 2021, 08:36:45 am »

Presumably there must be good reasons for placing wind farms offshore in the places where they do that, or they wouldn't do it. So, what other costs/benefits are you ignoring to arrive at your conclusion?
The wind does blow differently off shore, possibly better.  Also, onshore takes up a lot of expensive real estate, assuming it's even available, one of the reasons NYS is building offshore.  Plus, many people are opposed to the view.  If they want to see windmills, they'll visit Holland.  ;)

Interestingly, due to lower winds not caused by climate change, Europe only produced something like 18% of the possible total wind power electricity in the first nine months of this year.  Electricity costs are going up hugely due to that and the added problem of a big increase in natural gas prices, lower gas deliveries from Russia, the shutdown of nuclear plants probably too soon, and other generation problems that sound like Texas which also has the largest concentration of wind power in America.  This all seems to be drawing a bad picture for green.  Even experts say it will be another ten years before we should consider eliminating fossil fuel generation until they figure out how to backup power with better batteries or some other technology.   

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12898 on: December 22, 2021, 08:41:16 am »

A cost benefit analysis? I can see that you're an optimist!
I already provided a great link that compares energy production costs.  It seems you only want people to read your articles but don't want to return the courtesy.  Here it is again in case you're interested in reading it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#Energy_Information_Administration_(2020

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #12899 on: December 22, 2021, 09:09:34 am »

This is going to make some people here gag after refusing to give Trump any praise at all for Operation Warp Speed.

Biden praises Trump for Operation Warp Speed, getting COVID booster shot
https://nypost.com/2021/12/21/biden-praises-trump-for-operation-warp-speed-getting-covid-booster/


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