Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[TechTalk]

And another repost from September 07, 2021 that I wrote in the Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine thread as extension of the previous post...

The Bush administration and CDC in 2005 established a goal for which we should all currently be grateful. That goal was set forth in the 2005 National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza. Their goal was to (page 5):

"Establish domestic production capacity and stockpiles of countermeasures to ensure:

- Sufficient vaccine to vaccinate front-line personnel and at-risk populations, including military personnel;

- Sufficient vaccine to vaccinate the entire U.S. population within six months of the emergence of a virus with pandemic potential; and

- Antiviral treatment for those who contract a pandemic strain of influenza."

The following year, BARDA was established thru bipartisan legislation to work toward those and other goals. BARDA and NIAID continued with those efforts year after year; funding research outside government; performing research inside government; and developing capabilities and capacities for what became a critical need in 2020. The BARDA Strategic Plan for 2011-2016 (page 13 - Goal 3) discusses those ongoing efforts toward the 2005 six month goal for vaccine development and capacity.

"GOAL 3

Agile, robust and sustainable U.S. manufacturing in­frastructure capable of rapidly producing vaccines and other biologics against pandemic influenza and other emerging threats

The 2005 National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza es­tablished a commitment to making vaccine available for all Americans within six months of the emergence of a virus with pandemic potential. BARDA has made significant progress towards increasing and securing domestic manufacturing capacity for pandemic influ­enza vaccine development. However, the recent re­sponse to 2009 H1N1 shows that we are still hampered by the limits of current technology. The first domestic cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza were identified in April and the pandemic peaked about six months later, in late October. Despite an intensive effort to develop a pandemic vaccine, the 2009 H1N1 vaccine arrived too late to have a significant effect on the dynamics of the fall disease wave. Influenza vaccines licensed in the U.S. use egg-based technology that is more than 50 years old and a substantial portion of the manufactur­ing capacity is based overseas.

Consistent with recommendations from the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology in its August 2010 Report to the President on Re-engineering the Influenza Vaccine Production Enterprise to Meet the Challenges of Pandemic Influenza BARDA is work­ing with several partners to develop more modern plat­forms for manufacturing influenza vaccines and this investment is beginning to pay off."

The more one looks at the background and history of the current COVID vaccines, the more you realize that it was not an innovation, nor an effort, that occurred or began in 2020. The effort was years in the making and the results arrived in the nick of time. Now, if only people would behave rationally... that will take a lot more time and effort!

* Sorry about the length of the post. Consider it to be a continuation of the narrative that I began earlier on the background and history of COVID vaccines. Regardless of how it was branded and marketed during an election year, credit goes to BARDA for the speed of production and scientists supported by NIAID for the development. While the six month goal wasn't met... it was accomplished with impressive speed nonetheless. There is also credit due to scientists worldwide and not just in the U.S.

** Bold type is as it appears in the original document linked above.

[digitaldog]

We wouldn't want Biden to be lying about these things.

Speaking of lying and those that make accusations, your inability to address this speak volumes:

https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136697.msg1231250#msg1231250

After lying about gerrymandering in what was in that article, you really need to check yourself before calling others liars. 

He called who that when? Tell the truth!

[TechTalk]

Thanks, but I don't waste time thinking about trivial attacks on my character. I already know myself pretty well as do those that I care about.

[digitaldog]

Thanks, but I don't waste time thinking about trivial attacks on my character. I already know myself pretty well as do those that I care about.

His lack of addressing this again speak volumes about his ongoing hypocrisy.
Enough said on that one of many such examples.

[TechTalk]

I think you should write to President Biden and tell him he erred when he complimented President Trump for his work on the vaccines.  We wouldn't want Biden to be lying about these things.

I'll pass on your suggestion. I don't feel any urge or need to write to President Biden.

As for Trump's "work on the vaccines", Congress passed urgent COVID-19 legislation authorizing BARDA to do the job it was created to do and appropriated the funds for them to do it. Trump signed the bill.

Way to go Donald!! YEAAAAH! What a guy! He didn't veto the bill—what a stable genius! Trump gets takes credit for the vaccines that saved lives!

As for President Biden, he wants to get everyone vaccinated. Doing so will save lives and mitigate the continuing spread and evolution of the virus. It's neccessary in order to get ahead of and gain some control over the ongoing pandemic. He can say whatever he thinks will get those who remain unvaccinated to get vaccinated and I'll remain in favor of his efforts to do so.

[Alan Klein]

And another repost from September 07, 2021 that I wrote in the Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine thread as extension of the previous post...

The Bush administration and CDC in 2005 established a goal for which we should all currently be grateful. That goal was set forth in the 2005 National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza. Their goal was to (page 5):

"Establish domestic production capacity and stockpiles of countermeasures to ensure:

- Sufficient vaccine to vaccinate front-line personnel and at-risk populations, including military personnel;

- Sufficient vaccine to vaccinate the entire U.S. population within six months of the emergence of a virus with pandemic potential; and

- Antiviral treatment for those who contract a pandemic strain of influenza."

The following year, BARDA was established thru bipartisan legislation to work toward those and other goals. BARDA and NIAID continued with those efforts year after year; funding research outside government; performing research inside government; and developing capabilities and capacities for what became a critical need in 2020. The BARDA Strategic Plan for 2011-2016 (page 13 - Goal 3) discusses those ongoing efforts toward the 2005 six month goal for vaccine development and capacity.

"GOAL 3

Agile, robust and sustainable U.S. manufacturing in­frastructure capable of rapidly producing vaccines and other biologics against pandemic influenza and other emerging threats

The 2005 National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza es­tablished a commitment to making vaccine available for all Americans within six months of the emergence of a virus with pandemic potential. BARDA has made significant progress towards increasing and securing domestic manufacturing capacity for pandemic influ­enza vaccine development. However, the recent re­sponse to 2009 H1N1 shows that we are still hampered by the limits of current technology. The first domestic cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza were identified in April and the pandemic peaked about six months later, in late October. Despite an intensive effort to develop a pandemic vaccine, the 2009 H1N1 vaccine arrived too late to have a significant effect on the dynamics of the fall disease wave. Influenza vaccines licensed in the U.S. use egg-based technology that is more than 50 years old and a substantial portion of the manufactur­ing capacity is based overseas.

Consistent with recommendations from the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology in its August 2010 Report to the President on Re-engineering the Influenza Vaccine Production Enterprise to Meet the Challenges of Pandemic Influenza BARDA is work­ing with several partners to develop more modern plat­forms for manufacturing influenza vaccines and this investment is beginning to pay off."

The more one looks at the background and history of the current COVID vaccines, the more you realize that it was not an innovation, nor an effort, that occurred or began in 2020. The effort was years in the making and the results arrived in the nick of time. Now, if only people would behave rationally... that will take a lot more time and effort!

* Sorry about the length of the post. Consider it to be a continuation of the narrative that I began earlier on the background and history of COVID vaccines. Regardless of how it was branded and marketed during an election year, credit goes to BARDA for the speed of production and scientists supported by NIAID for the development. While the six month goal wasn't met... it was accomplished with impressive speed nonetheless. There is also credit due to scientists worldwide and not just in the U.S.

** Bold type is as it appears in the original document linked above.

BARDA is an agency under the Executive Branch run by the president.  Just like Biden is responsible for the pullout in Afghanistan because he's in charge of the military, Trump was responsible for everything that went on with BARDA and other agencies involved with the vaccines. They all report to him.  The president is responsible for their activity.   

So if they failed, he would have gotten the blame just as Biden was blamed for the disastrous pullout in Afghanistan.  But the vaccine was a success and came out quickly, much ahead of Biden and Democrats claiming they would not come out before the spring of 2021 through possibly years later.  Many democrats claimed they wouldn't take the "Trump" vaccine.  They were the first on line when it did come out. They were wrong and Trump kept his promise and executed flawlessly.  Americans received millions of doses earlier than most expected.

All the stuff you're writing is superfluous and just another Trump hit job. 

[TechTalk]

BARDA is an agency under the Executive Branch run by the president...

Once again, you've mastered and brought to our attention the obvious. Thanks!

All the stuff you're writing is superfluous and just another Trump hit job.

Someone may find what I've posted to be new and informative to them, while others might not find it of any interest. You, of course, can and will believe whatever suits you.

[digitaldog]

Many democrats claimed they wouldn't take the "Trump" vaccine. 

You keep repeating that falsehood.
What vaccine was called "The Trump Vaccine" and when did he himself develop it?
Some said they would not take the vaccine based on his recommendation alone. Neither would I! This after Trump suggested injecting disinfectant; perhaps you don't remember him saying that on TV. Or think (if I can be so kind) he was jokeing (he wasn't).
Some said they would take the vaccinee, and they did, after the science, (a process you ignore), was provided by the CDC and other actual experts on vaccines. 

[TechTalk]

Alan likes to inaccurately paraphrase something an individual Democrat says and then reframe it as a blanket statement attributed to Democrats more broadly. Only he knows why he does this. The rest of us can only speculate.

In September 2020, Kamala Harris said when asked about vaccines:

“I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump, and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it.”

As for what other individual Democrats had to say...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/democratic-reaction-covid-vaccine/index.html

Democrats say they need to hear from scientists, not Trump, that vaccine is safe

[digitaldog]

Alan likes to inaccurately paraphrase something an individual Democrat says and then reframe it as a blanket statement attributed to Democrats more broadly. Only he knows why he does this. The rest of us can only speculate.

In September 2020, Kamala Harris said when asked about vaccines:

“I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump, and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it.”

One could easily substitute Trump for Alan indeed.
I will say that I would not trust Alan, and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it.
Best comment I can make about either: Often wrong, never in doubt.

[TechTalk]

The Atlantic, a liberal magazine, seems to agree with me, not you.

I've noticed that you often like to point to a source as agreeing with you or disagreeing with someone else. I suppose that it's reassuring.

It feels strange having the left on my right side.  But it's nice they're coming around to my way of thinking. 

May that belief bring you comfort and joy this holiday season.

[TechTalk]

Meanwhile, the author of the article, that you linked to in The Atlantic, also wrote this interesting article...

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-populism-has-proven-lethal-pandemic

Excerpts below:

How Populism Has Proven Lethal in This Pandemic

The pandemic is where simple narratives go to die.

Most of the predictions that people made a year ago have turned out to be false. Democracies did not systematically do better than dictatorships. Nor did the state prove to be more capable of dealing with the disruptions of the pandemic than the global economy.

But one simple contrast might be vindicated after all.

In the first months of the pandemic, many observers argued that countries led by populist leaders who distrust science and deny the severity of the pandemic would suffer worse outcomes. Perhaps, they speculated, it might even slow or reverse the seemingly inexorable rise that the populists have enjoyed over the past decade.

Then some of the countries ruled by moderate politicians, like France and Germany, struggled while some of the countries ruled by authoritarian populists, like Poland and Hungary, seemed to do surprisingly well. The idea that populists would do especially poorly came to look like one more piece of conventional wisdom that wouldn’t survive the bonfire of viruses.

Tragically, that is no longer the case. The longer the pandemic has dragged on, the more the quality of governance has turned out to matter. If you look around the world today, it becomes painfully clear that those countries that are ruled by populists have paid an especially heavy toll in economic damage, case load, and mortality...

...The evidence for the pandemic cost of populism is mounting elsewhere, too. Bolivia, Ecuador and the Philippines also count among the world’s worst-hit nations. And in the United States, the transition from Donald Trump to Joe Biden has shown how much a competent government can, even in the late stage of the game, do to improve the situation.

Those of us who are horrified by the populist surge of the past decade should take this as a tragic confirmation of our worst fears. It turns out that it really does matter for the well-being of the public whether politicians care about their citizens, believe in science, and are constrained by checks and balances that can rein them in when they go off the rails.

The price of populism has turned out to be even more deadly than we could have imagined before this terrible pandemic swept the world.

More of the article available thru link above

[Alan Klein]

I've noticed that you often like to point to a source as agreeing with you or disagreeing with someone else. I suppose that it's reassuring.

May that belief bring you comfort and joy this holiday season.

Happy Holidays to you too.   May next year be prosperous for you and may you be healthy and happy in all your endeavors.

Alan

(Sincerely). 

[TechTalk]

Thanks. Peace on Earth, goodwill toward all.

[PeterAit]

You keep repeating that falsehood.
What vaccine was called "The Trump Vaccine" and when did he himself develop it?
Some said they would not take the vaccine based on his recommendation alone. Neither would I! This after Trump suggested injecting disinfectant; perhaps you don't remember him saying that on TV. Or think (if I can be so kind) he was jokeing (he wasn't).
Some said they would take the vaccinee, and they did, after the science, (a process you ignore), was provided by the CDC and other actual experts on vaccines.

And remember that Pfizer, the developer of the first vaccine, said publicly and loudly that their vaccine had nothing to do with Trump's "warp speed" crapola.

[Alan Klein]

And remember that Pfizer, the developer of the first vaccine, said publicly and loudly that their vaccine had nothing to do with Trump's "warp speed" crapola.

that's incorrect.  See my post 12909

[digitaldog]

that's incorrect.  See my post 12909

https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_565aa63a-4c46-4eea-9586-093253d1bdf3

CLAIM

Pfizer sparked a stock market rally with its Monday announcement that early data shows its coronavirus vaccine is more than 90% effective. It also kicked off a battle over who deserves credit for the preliminary good news.
President Donald Trump's administration was quick to applaud itself.

"HUGE NEWS: Thanks to the public-private partnership forged by President @realDonaldTrump, @pfizer announced its Coronavirus Vaccine trial is EFFECTIVE, preventing infection in 90% of its volunteers," Vice President Mike Pence tweeted.

Others, however, pointed to the fact that Pfizer's senior vice president and head of vaccine research and development, Kathrin Jansen, publicly distanced the company from the Trump administration's Operation Warp Speed vaccine initiative. Jansen was quoted Monday by The New York Times as saying, "We were never part of the Warp Speed. We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone."
CONCLUSION

The real story is more nuanced than both Pence's tweet and Jansen's comment made it sound. Pfizer's vaccine progress is certainly not solely attributable to the Trump administration's Operation Warp Speed public-private partnership program. But it was not accurate for Pfizer to suggest that it is operating entirely apart from Operation Warp Speed; the company has a major agreement to sell at least 100 million doses of its vaccine to the federal government, and Pfizer acknowledged in a Monday statement to CNN that it is in fact "participating" in Operation Warp Speed through this deal. Also, at least some independent experts say the Trump administration deserves partial credit for Pfizer's progress.

It is nuanced so I wouldn't expect someone who demands black and white concepts that are largely based on assumptions to dig deep into this.

EVIDENCE
It's true that Pfizer, unlike some other pharmaceutical companies, did not accept federal money for research into a coronavirus vaccine. Pfizer, unlike these competitors, is not getting payments up front even before proving its effort has been successful.
However, the Trump administration agreed in July to buy at least $1.95 billion worth of a Pfizer vaccine, at least 100 million doses, if Pfizer does get a vaccine authorized by the Food and Drug Administration.

This isn't at all nuanced, despite multiple attempts to tell us otherwise ("So now that Covid is on the way out", bla bla bla, BS, BS, BS):

[digitaldog]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-renews-praise-covid-vaccines-one-greatest-achievements-mankind-n1286551

Former President Donald Trump praised the efficacy of the coronavirus vaccines in a new interview just days after being booed by an audience for revealing he received a Covid booster shot.

"The vaccine is one of the greatest achievements of mankind," Trump told conservative commentator Candace Owens in an interview on Wednesday. While Trump has expressed opposition to vaccine mandates, he has long taken credit for the vaccines developed on his watch.

"I came up with a vaccine, with three vaccines all are very, very good," he said in the interview, referring to the Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson shots.

"I came up with a vaccine" ranks up there with "I know more than all the generals**" and (not his) "So now that Covid is on the way out", all bla bla bla, BS, BS, BS and a few lies mixed in.)
** and more: https://www.axios.com/everything-trump-says-he-knows-more-about-than-anybody-b278b592-cff0-47dc-a75f-5767f42bcf1e.html

    Campaign finance: "I think nobody knows more about campaign finance than I do, because I'm the biggest contributor." (1999.)
    TV ratings: "I know more about people who get ratings than anyone." (October 2012.)
    ISIS: "I know more about ISIS than the generals do." (November 2015.)
    Social media: "I understand social media. I understand the power of Twitter. I understand the power of Facebook maybe better than almost anybody, based on my results, right?" (November 2015.)
    Courts: "I know more about courts than any human being on Earth." (November 2015.)
    Lawsuits: "[W]ho knows more about lawsuits than I do? I'm the king." (January 2016.)
    Politicians: "I understand politicians better than anybody."
    The visa system: "[N]obody knows the system better than me. I know the H1B. I know the H2B. ... Nobody else on this dais knows how to change it like I do, believe me." (March 2016.)
    Trade: "Nobody knows more about trade than me." (March 2016.)
    The U.S. government system: "[N]obody knows the system better than I do." (April 2016.)
    Renewable energy: "I know more about renewables than any human being on Earth." (April 2016.)
    Taxes: "I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world." (May 2016.)
    Debt: "I’m the king of debt. I’m great with debt. Nobody knows debt better than me." (June 2016.)
    Money: "I understand money better than anybody." (June 2016.)
    Infrastructure: "[L]ook, as a builder, nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump." (July 2016.)
    Sen. Cory Booker: "I know more about Cory than he knows about himself." (July 2016.)
    Borders: Trump said in 2016 that Sheriff Joe Arpaio said he was endorsing him for president because "you know more about this stuff than anybody."
    Democrats: "I think I know more about the other side than almost anybody." (November 2016.)
    Construction: "[N]obody knows more about construction than I do." (May 2018.)
    The economy: "I think I know about it better than [the Federal Reserve]." (October 2018.)
    Technology: "Technology — nobody knows more about technology than me." (December 2018.)
    Drones: "I know more about drones than anybody. I know about every form of safety that you can have." (January 2019.)
    Drone technology: "Having a drone fly overhead — and I think nobody knows much more about technology, this type of technology certainly, than I do." (January 2019.)

[Peter McLennan]

That's a great list, Andrew.  Thanks for posting.

[TechTalk]

I wonder if Trump were asked about narcissism if he would immediately start spouting: I know more about narcissism than anybody. I think nobody knows more about narcissism than I do, because I'm the biggest narcissist. Some people say that I invented it. I don't know, but that's what they're saying.