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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 268472 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11860 on: October 22, 2021, 03:32:34 pm »

The story has nothing to do with Michael Moore, he is just the guy interviewing the person in question about the legal troubles. All of the reporting is done by the guy himself.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts". -Albert Einstein
There was of course a Michael Moore bias that formed the reply.
This posting tactic is nothing new and again, it appears the actual data you provided was ignored prior to a written comment.
OK I looked at the demo video. At 3:03 the car went right through a pedestrian crossing without slowing down for the pedestrians waiting.  What if they suddenly ran out?   
What if indeed? Since that didn't happen, you are free to assume and you will.
Earth1
As an aside, you need to curtail your tendency to call anyone with whom you don't agree an extremist or unstable or left-wing nut. After a while, the insults lose their sting.
Earth2
You're getting too personal and sarcastic like some others here.  Why don't you address people's points instead of attacking them?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 03:35:50 pm by digitaldog »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11861 on: October 22, 2021, 03:34:55 pm »

There's an interesting podcast of Neil deGrasses Tyson's Star Talk interviewing Malcolm Gladwell about these very topics, https://www.startalkradio.net/show/ai-autonomous-vehicles-and-race-oh-my-with-malcolm-gladwell/. It's available on other platforms of course. The discussion goes beyond avoiding a kid with a ball. Avoiding that kid is only the minimum these systems need to do well.
This looks more interesting than Michael Moore.  :)   Hopefully I can find 55 minutes.  I suspect from what you said that they agree with me that many cues that humans pick up to avoid accidents and drive well are being missed by the AI systems.

LesPalenik

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11862 on: October 22, 2021, 03:44:28 pm »

OK I looked at the demo video. At 3:03 the car went right through a pedestrian crossing without slowing down for the pedestrians waiting.  What if they suddenly ran out?   Even the driver noticed that.  After that, I lost all trust in the system and stopped watching.  Also, I notice the system can't see the eyes of pedestrians or drivers.  Can it see balls on sidewalks? I'm not impressed.  As long as everyone else is doing what they're suppose to, there's no problem.

I wouldn't expect that the car recognition system can see the eyes of the kids, nor read their minds. Neither can it detect an imminent seizure or a heart failure of a pedestrian.  Well, when it happens and the pedestrian rolls onto the road, it could react quicker than the human driver.   Maybe the version 22.1 will able to read such cues and anticipate close encounters of any kind.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11863 on: October 22, 2021, 03:53:09 pm »

If you don't want to inform yourself about this situation, that's fine, I'm not going to waste my time spoon feeding you information that's freely available. It's your country's judicial system, if you don't think there's a problem with private corporations taking over criminal prosecutions, then don't listen to this story, no skin off my nose. Given your past reverence of all things freedom and constitution, I would have assumed you'd care more.

The story has nothing to do with Michael Moore, he is just the guy interviewing the person in question about the legal troubles. All of the reporting is done by the guy himself.

As for your sentence "It doesn't make sense that some rogue judge could put a person under house arrest for more than two years without an Appeals Court ruling it's OK." THAT is the problem. A rogue judge has done that and is getting away with it. Why don't you care about that?


I've heard this or variations of this many times and it always makes me laugh. Micheal Moore is not the 6 o'clock news. It's not his job to adhere to the fairness doctrine, not that it exists anymore anyway, not in any real way. He makes point of view movies, that's all. From what I've seen, he's far less problematic on that score that Tucker or that O'Reilly character before him.  They're on mass networks and present as journalists or commentators, terms which don't mean as much as they're meant to anymore. Singling Moore out in this way is truly funny.

As an aside, you need to curtail your tendency to call anyone with whom you don't agree an extremist or unstable or left-wing nut. After a while, the insults lose their sting.
In order to meet you halfway but not waste my time listening to an hour of a Michael Moore biased podcast, I looked up the case and found the following.  Apparently the American lawyer you defended not only received 600 days of house arrest for criminal contempt. He just received a six-month jail sentence for contempt of Federal court and lost his license to practice law in New York State.  It's not easy to get disbarred in NY, but he did it. Like I said.  Don't waste your time with Michael Moore. You can read all about it in about two minutes.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/01/steven-donziger-lawyer-sentenced-contempt-chevron

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11864 on: October 22, 2021, 04:00:41 pm »

In order to meet you halfway but  not waste my time listening to an hour of a Michael Moore biased podcast, I looked up the case and found the following.
Ah, an assumption again (waste of time) in getting info and data to form an educated opinion to form a reply to Robert and others. Yes, that takes some time and work and yes, it is quicker to assume and remain in a biased position.
One has to wonder if this was taking place on Fox "News" and took an hour, or was an hour on Trump's "Truth Social" if it would be considered a 'must watch'.
You seem fine with biased content, as long as it follows you conformation bias.
Quote
Apparently the American lawyer you defended not only received 600 days of house arrest for criminal contempt
Watch, then you'll actually know instead of what you state "apparently."

We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.” -Anthropologist Mary Catherine Bateson
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11865 on: October 22, 2021, 04:02:51 pm »

I wouldn't expect that the car recognition system can see the eyes of the kids, nor read their minds. Neither can it detect an imminent seizure or a heart failure of a pedestrian.  Well, when it happens and the pedestrian rolls onto the road, it could react quicker than the human driver.   Maybe the version 22.1 will able to read such cues and anticipate close encounters of any kind.
But the car kept going through the crosswalk.  It didn't stop for people waiting in it as required by law. It didn't even slow down.  How can you trust a system when elemental traffic infractions are occurring?  As an aside, who does the cop ticket if there was one around?   Will Tesla pay the fine? :)   

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11866 on: October 22, 2021, 04:54:34 pm »

You're repeating yourself. Don't bust a cog.

Ah, but you repeat yourself...  ;)

I realize that your reply to Andrew was tongue-in-cheek with a wink and more likely aimed at my response to Les. So, I thought that I would take the opportunity to say that I too will repeat myself when replies or arguments are repetitious and/or nonresponsive.

My response to Les of "You're repeating yourself. Don't bust a cog." was the gentlest way that I thought appropriate to caution against repeated baseless character assassination regarding Dr. Cummings. At that point I had already done some background research on the claims he was making. I have since done hours more reading and listening. I'll respond more fully to those claims, which I find baseless, shortly.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11867 on: October 22, 2021, 05:48:59 pm »

The Dow climbed 74 points, or 0.2%, to 35,677 today, surpassing a record close of 35,625 set on August 16 and bringing its gains this year to about 18%. 

Thank you President.... Oh wait; that's silly. 😝
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11868 on: October 22, 2021, 05:55:56 pm »

In order to meet you halfway but not waste my time listening to an hour of a Michael Moore biased podcast, I looked up the case and found the following.  Apparently the American lawyer you defended not only received 600 days of house arrest for criminal contempt. He just received a six-month jail sentence for contempt of Federal court and lost his license to practice law in New York State.  It's not easy to get disbarred in NY, but he did it. Like I said.  Don't waste your time with Michael Moore. You can read all about it in about two minutes.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/01/steven-donziger-lawyer-sentenced-contempt-chevron

You completely missed the point, but I believe that was deliberate. You're trolling again. I can only assume that you're afraid that Moore might have found something out that you might not like. Better to dismiss him than examine what happened.

But moreover, I'm getting more than a bit sick and tired of your childish attempts to gaslight people. The phrase "Apparently the American lawyer you defended..." is particularly egregious. When the f**k did I defend him? I pointed the story of how the charges and penalties against him may be the result of a miscarriage of justice. And all you can do is stupidly regurgitate those base facts, which were known from the beginning, while thinking that you've achieved some understanding. It's precisely that sequence of events and how they came into being that is the issue. But you either know this and refuse to acknowledge it or you truly do not understand. But don't think about it anymore, it'll only cause you harm.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11869 on: October 22, 2021, 07:29:48 pm »

You completely missed the point, but I believe that was deliberate. You're trolling again. I can only assume that you're afraid that Moore might have found something out that you might not like. Better to dismiss him than examine what happened.

But moreover, I'm getting more than a bit sick and tired of your childish attempts to gaslight people. The phrase "Apparently the American lawyer you defended..." is particularly egregious. When the f**k did I defend him? I pointed the story of how the charges and penalties against him may be the result of a miscarriage of justice. And all you can do is stupidly regurgitate those base facts, which were known from the beginning, while thinking that you've achieved some understanding. It's precisely that sequence of events and how they came into being that is the issue. But you either know this and refuse to acknowledge it or you truly do not understand. But don't think about it anymore, it'll only cause you harm.
Stop deflecting.  This lawyer was sent to jail for 6 months by a federal judge for criminal contempt on top of a previous house arrest of over 600 days also by a judge.  The lawyer's violation of law caused New York State to disbar him.  The rest of your complaints about me is a distraction for you getting the story wrong all because you believed Michael Moore's podcast.  You ought to check other sources before you stick your neck out again based on what Moore has to say. 

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11870 on: October 22, 2021, 07:36:48 pm »

The fact it's not called Trump Media, says a lot.  Let's assume this is a legitimate attempt...

Why of course, Trump is involved, so "Let's assume this is a legitimate attempt" to do something positive. However, If Colin Powell is asked to be Secretary of State (who Trump criticizes as a RINO with your wholehearted approval), let's NOT assume that its for legitimate positive reasons such as his prior experience as a leader in the military and national security having served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and National Security Adviser and his widespread admiration both nationally and globally—qualifications that are a dime a dozen. Instead, let's assume that it's a political reward as you do and not merit-based.

Same with Dr. Cummings serving as an adviser at NHTSA, let's not look at her unique set of qualifications. Let's assume that it is some plot by unions and a political payoff. Let's ignore her deep background both firsthand and academic with AI and human-autonomous systems interface engineering and application. Ignore that she has been an adviser for several years in widely varied private industries and government agencies based on her knowledge and experience with AI and autonomous systems—most recently as a board member on the Defense Department's Defense Innovation Board since 2018 under Trump.

As usual, you're full of... assume.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11871 on: October 22, 2021, 07:58:20 pm »

It's not easy to get disbarred in NY

Trump attorney and mentor in the 1970s and 80s, the infamous Roy Cohn, managed the difficult task of being disbarred. His more recent personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, has so far only managed to get his law license suspended while it's under review. But, give it time. Rudy can probably manage to achieve disbarment as well.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11872 on: October 22, 2021, 08:00:49 pm »

You ought to check other sources before you stick your neck out again based on what Moore has to say.
The old saying "Pot calling kettle black" is too tame for such a comment.
You and Don Quixote have much in common.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11873 on: October 22, 2021, 08:02:04 pm »

Why of course, Trump is involved, so "Let's assume this is a legitimate attempt" to do something positive. However, If Colin Powell is asked to be Secretary of State (who Trump criticizes as a RINO with your wholehearted approval), let's NOT assume that its for legitimate positive reasons such as his prior experience as a leader in the military and national security having served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and National Security Adviser and his widespread admiration both nationally and globally—qualifications that are a dime a dozen. Instead, let's assume that it's a political reward as you do and not merit-based.

Same with Dr. Cummings serving as an adviser at NHTSA, let's not look at her unique set of qualifications. Let's assume that it is some plot by unions and a political payoff. Let's ignore her deep background both firsthand and academic with AI and human-autonomous systems interface engineering and application. Ignore that she has been an adviser for several years in widely varied private industries and government agencies based on her knowledge and experience with AI and autonomous systems—most recently as a board member on the Defense Department's Defense Innovation Board since 2018 under Trump.

As usual, you're full of... assume.

  You're assuming the media business isn't legitimate.  Maybe it isn't, maybe it is.  We're both assuming.  Why can you assume but I can't?   You assume that Powell received his position on merit only and others assume there were political reasons.  Maybe there were both.  Your arguing against assumptions doesn't make sense.  We all make assumptions here when we give our opinions.  After all, they're opinions.   Opinions are based mainly on assumptions especially when it comes to politics.  Reminds me of the quote: "How do you know when politicians are lying?"  "Their lips are moving."

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11874 on: October 22, 2021, 08:06:36 pm »

Trump attorney and mentor in the 1970s and 80s, the infamous Roy Cohn, managed the difficult task of being disbarred. His more recent personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, has so far only managed to get his law license suspended while it's under review. But, give it time. Rudy can probably manage to achieve disbarment as well.
You forgot Michael Cohen, another Trump lawyer, more recently disbarred in New York. 

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11875 on: October 22, 2021, 08:07:08 pm »

  You're assuming the media business isn't legitimate.

Please show me where I assumed that. I was simply illustrating the apparent method by which you arrive at your assumptions.

There are times when the lack of comprehension knows no bounds.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 08:21:48 pm by TechTalk »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11876 on: October 22, 2021, 08:11:45 pm »

You forgot Michael Cohen, another Trump lawyer, more recently disbarred in New York.
Don't forget: Trump only hires the best people. At least that's the assumption you should try on, blindly accept that is clearly another Tump lie.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11877 on: October 22, 2021, 08:11:52 pm »

You forgot Michael Cohen, another Trump lawyer, more recently disbarred in New York.

You assume that I forgot. I decided to intentionally leave out the one that pled guilty and showed some remorse for his illegal actions on Trump's behalf and instruction.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11878 on: October 22, 2021, 08:17:32 pm »

You assume that Powell received his position on merit only

I haven't assumed that either. I listed his qualifications which would logically be considered evidence of merit for the position.

You just spew out that it was a political reward without any evidence. In other words... an assumption.

I repeat. You're full of... assume.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11879 on: October 22, 2021, 08:23:05 pm »

You assume that I forgot. I decided to intentionally leave out the one that pled guilty and showed some remorse for his illegal actions on Trump's behalf and instruction.
Ah yes.  A prime example of personal virtue.  I cannot think of another finer chap. 
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