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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 224619 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11880 on: October 22, 2021, 08:28:09 pm »

I haven't assumed that either. I listed his qualifications which would logically be considered evidence of merit for the position.

You just spew out that it was a political reward without any evidence. In other words... an assumption.

I repeat. You're full of... assume.
Of course it was a political reward.  You don't become Secretary of State if you haven't done something important for the president.  Additionally, do you think Powell would have been offered the job if he was a Democrat?  That's why so many Republicans call him a RINO.  He wasn't loyal to the party.  If Democrat Senator Manchin switches allegiance to the republicans, what would you call him?  ;)

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11881 on: October 22, 2021, 08:28:30 pm »

Ah yes.  A prime example of personal virtue.  I cannot think of another finer chap.

Personal virtue is your statement not mine. Confession, however, is said to be good for the soul and at the very least, a step in the right direction. Ability to recognize and admit mistakes is an indication of emotional maturity, something his former boss lacks.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11882 on: October 22, 2021, 08:33:23 pm »

Personal virtue is your statement not mine. Confession, however, is said to be good for the soul and at the very least, a step in the right direction. Ability to recognize and admit mistakes is an indication of emotional maturity, something his former boss lacks.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.  He was just getting even.  He had no remorse for what he did. 

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11883 on: October 22, 2021, 08:39:37 pm »

You don't become Secretary of State if you haven't done something important for the president.

Hmmmm... What was the "something important" that Trump's first Secretary of State, former ExxonMobil chairman and CEO Rex Tillerson, did for Trump? Tillerson did have extensive business ties to Russian state oil and gas companies and was very friendly with Putin. But, what was the "something important" Rex Tillerson did for Trump which earned him his reward?

Tillerson donated money to the George W. Bush and Romney presidential campaigns. His donation to the Trump campaign? Zero.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 07:25:41 am by TechTalk »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11884 on: October 22, 2021, 08:40:50 pm »

He had no remorse for what he did.

A banner day of Klein assumptions.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11885 on: October 22, 2021, 08:41:15 pm »

He had no remorse for what he did.

What's your evidence of that? Or, is it just one more evidence free assumption?

He does say that he regrets what he did and has expressed remorse. It's up to each individual whether they believe him.

His confession, along with his recognition and admission of his mistakes in breaking the law, are facts, however, and a matter of record. They are not assumptions. Look it up.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 07:15:19 am by TechTalk »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11886 on: October 22, 2021, 08:46:55 pm »

What's your evidence of that? Or, is it just one more evidence free assumption?
None and yes.
Enough pointless assumptions for the day. My time will be better served watching Dune. Read the books decades ago, I will not assume anything till I'm finished viewing it but it's likely someone else we both tire of has an strong opinion about both book and movie of which he has no experience.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11887 on: October 22, 2021, 09:02:45 pm »

If Democrat Senator Manchin switches allegiance to the republicans Trumpublicans, what would you call him?  ;)

Dumber than a lump of West Virginia coal.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11888 on: October 22, 2021, 09:59:38 pm »

Stop deflecting.  This lawyer was sent to jail for 6 months by a federal judge for criminal contempt on top of a previous house arrest of over 600 days also by a judge.  The lawyer's violation of law caused New York State to disbar him.  The rest of your complaints about me is a distraction for you getting the story wrong all because you believed Michael Moore's podcast.  You ought to check other sources before you stick your neck out again based on what Moore has to say.

Not only have you not listened to the lawyer telling his story but you didn't read read much of the Guardian article that YOU linked to. But that's ok.

Let me ask you this. Do you think it's ok for a judge to assign as private prosecutor a law firm that works for Chevron to prosecute a lawyer who had previously won a lawsuit against Chevron, but that Chevron has yet to pay up on many years later. And the judge assigned the case to that private prosecutor after after the federal prosecuting office refused to go ahead with the case. This doesn't bother you?
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11889 on: October 22, 2021, 10:56:53 pm »

I realize that your reply to Andrew was tongue-in-cheek with a wink and more likely aimed at my response to Les. So, I thought that I would take the opportunity to say that I too will repeat myself when replies or arguments are repetitious and/or nonresponsive.

My response to Les of "You're repeating yourself. Don't bust a cog." was the gentlest way that I thought appropriate to caution against repeated baseless character assassination regarding Dr. Cummings. At that point I had already done some background research on the claims he was making. I have since done hours more reading and listening. I'll respond more fully to those claims, which I find baseless, shortly.

Tongue in cheek, yes.  But not a response to you.  Andrew said, "RINOs or Republicans with a conscience.." and the joke was simply that they're the same thing in the era of Trumpublicans :)
 
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11890 on: October 23, 2021, 07:10:56 am »

Thanks. Understood.
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11891 on: October 23, 2021, 07:21:31 am »

Opinions are based mainly on assumptions

For you, this is clearly true. That you believe and practice this idea explains your incredible ability to jump to conclusions.

There are many people, however, who will weigh facts and evidence before forming their opinions.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 08:00:34 am by TechTalk »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11892 on: October 23, 2021, 08:05:19 am »

I've started reading Micheal Wolff's Landslide, about Trump's last year in office including the campaign and election. I didn't think I could still be shocked but I was wrong. If half of what he says is true, the level of incompetent dysfunction in Trumpistan's inner circle can take your breath away. If you get the chance, just read the 3-4 page Prologue for a taste. The level of professionalism in the US civil service in important departments must be quite high to have kept the country running as well as it has given what was at the helm. Good that there are some conscientious people amidst the charlatans.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11893 on: October 23, 2021, 08:10:50 am »

Not only have you not listened to the lawyer telling his story but you didn't read read much of the Guardian article that YOU linked to. But that's ok.

Let me ask you this. Do you think it's ok for a judge to assign as private prosecutor a law firm that works for Chevron to prosecute a lawyer who had previously won a lawsuit against Chevron, but that Chevron has yet to pay up on many years later. And the judge assigned the case to that private prosecutor after after the federal prosecuting office refused to go ahead with the case. This doesn't bother you?
The article I read never mentions a private prosecutor.  The lawyer made a claim that there was collusion between Chevron and the court.  The courts ignored his claim.  You're assuming it's true just because he made it. The article says this lawyer violated the court criminally and was sentenced by a Federal judge for not turning over his computer and records to the court.  It seems he was hiding something.  The people the lawyer were involved with were declared to be criminally corrupt by a Federal court. NYS took his law license away.  A lawyer really has to do something terrible to get 6 months jailtime and disbarred.  It happens very rarely.  In any case, if the court erred, he has a right to appeal and get it reversed.  The fact the UN objected means nothing in American law.  The judge rightly ignored their claims.    Your claim I didn't read the Guardian article isn;t true. Here it is in its entirety.  One final note.  Your and Moore's podcast claims that somehow there was collusion between Chevron and the court system don;t comport with the facts.  There were two federal judges who independently made these decisions about this case.  Claiming Chevron corrupted two federal judges is a long reach.
Quote
Steven Donziger, the US indigenous rights campaigner and lawyer who spent decades battling the energy firm Chevron over pollution in the Ecuadorian rainforest, was sentenced to six months’ imprisonment on Friday for criminal contempt charges arising from a lawsuit brought by the oil giant.

Donziger, who was disbarred from practicing law in New York last year, was found guilty in May of defying court orders, including by failing to turn over his computer and other electronic devices.

NEW YORK, NEW YORK - Steven Donziger on the 600th day of his house arrest. He was targeted by Chevron after winning a settlement for indigenous people in the Amazon who had their environment ruined by oil. He claims to be the victim of corporate persecution.
The lawyer who took on Chevron – and now marks his 600th day under house arrest
Read more
Friday’s sentence, handed down by federal judge Loretta Preska in Manhattan, came a day after he asked the court to consider an opinion by independent United Nations experts that found his court-ordered home confinement of more than two years was a violation of international human rights law.

The UN experts’ opinion said the US breached international law by putting Donziger under house arrest for about four times the maximum sentence of six months that he has now received in his contempt case.

The experts, appointed by the Geneva-based UN human rights council, said that “the appropriate remedy” would be to “accord [Donziger] an enforceable right to compensation”.

Amnesty International also petitioned US authorities “to promptly implement the decision by the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention calling for the immediate release of Steven Donziger”.

While Preska was not bound to consider the UN experts’ testimony that Donziger had been unlawfully confined, she imposed an unexpectedly tough sentence. “It seems that only the proverbial two-by-four between the eyes will instill in him any respect for the law,” she said from the bench.

Donziger was charged in August 2019 with criminal contempt and placed under home detention to address concerns of flight risk. Five months ago, the judge found him guilty for “repeatedly and willfully” defying court orders.

The criminal case turns on a ruling from an earlier, 2014 civil case in which a Manhattan judge barred US enforcement of a $9.5bn judgment against Chevron Corp that Donziger had won in the Ecuadorian courts in 2011.

Chevron has never paid up, claiming “shocking levels of misconduct” and fraud by Donziger and the Ecuadorian judiciary. In the US, a judge agreed and said the Ecuadorian decision had been secured through bribery, fraud and extortion.

Donziger was ordered to turn over his computer, phones and other electronic devices. That later escalated into a criminal case when he failed to do so.

In an interview with the Guardian in March, Donziger described how his crusade against Chevron on behalf of indigenous people affected by oil pollution in the Amazon rainforest had turned and that he had become the victim of a “planned targeting by a corporation to destroy my life”.

Friday’s decision is likely to raise condemnation of Donziger’s treatment by US authorities. In March, he claimed he was being tried “by a Chevron-connected judge and prosecuted by a Chevron-connected lawyer? It’s just wrong,” Donziger said.

“This is all part of a plan concocted by Chevron to dismantle my life. They want to do this to avoid paying up and to turn me into a weapon of intimidation against the whole legal profession.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/01/steven-donziger-lawyer-sentenced-contempt-chevron

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11894 on: October 23, 2021, 08:14:55 am »

Quote
Friday’s decision is likely to raise condemnation of Donziger’s treatment by US authorities.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11895 on: October 23, 2021, 08:28:30 am »

I've started reading Micheal Wolff's Landslide, about Trump's last year in office including the campaign and election. I didn't think I could still be shocked but I was wrong. If half of what he says is true, the level of incompetent dysfunction in Trumpistan's inner circle can take your breath away. If you get the chance, just read the 3-4 page Prologue for a taste. The level of professionalism in the US civil service in important departments must be quite high to have kept the country running as well as it has given what was at the helm. Good that there are some conscientious people amidst the charlatans.
Trump left functionality in Afghanistan and at our locked-up borders during the fourth and last year of his administration. In 9 months since he left, through Biden's incompetence, Afghanistan is now run by the Taliban and other terrorists and 2 million illegals have entered the USA including around 300,000 who snuck through avoiding "capture", probably because they were criminals and drug dealers.

Because of Biden's shutdown of the oil pipelines and cancelling drilling, he helped decrease American oil production raising the cost of gasoline and heating fuels for the approaching winter.  If professionals were doing all good things despite Trump, why are things failing now under Biden?  Those professionals are still there.  Could it be that Biden's policies are screwing things up? 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11896 on: October 23, 2021, 08:28:46 am »

The article I read never mentions a private prosecutor.  ...

Then you've missed the entire point of the story.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11897 on: October 23, 2021, 08:30:11 am »

Trump left functionality in Afghanistan and at our locked-up borders during the fourth and last year of his administration. In 9 months since he left, through Biden's incompetence, Afghanistan is now run by the Taliban and other terrorists and 2 million illegals have entered the USA including around 300,000 who snuck through avoiding "capture", probably because they were criminals and drug dealers.

Because of Biden's shutdown of the oil pipelines and cancelling drilling, he helped decrease American oil production raising the cost of gasoline and heating fuels for the approaching winter.  If professionals were doing all good things despite Trump, why are things failing now under Biden?  Those professionals are still there.  Could it be that Biden's policies are screwing things up?

Do not read Wolff's book.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11898 on: October 23, 2021, 08:32:49 am »

Then you've missed the entire point of the story.
The point in the article was that the lawyer claimed there was collusion between the court and Chevron.  He offered as much proof as Trump did regarding illegal voting.  One would have to assume that two independent federal courts run by two federal judges colluded with Chevron to "get" this lawyer.  There you go "assuming" things again.  Where are your facts?  :)

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #11899 on: October 23, 2021, 08:34:36 am »

Because of Biden's shutdown of the oil pipelines

You mean that XL pipeline you've used as an example that doesn't exist and never has?
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