Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[James Clark]

Alan - I apologize for getting so frustrated with you, but can I just ask one more question?  Simply put, if Black people are telling you these laws make it harder for them to cast legitimate votes, why don't you believe them?

[sf]

Thanks for another enthralling contribution, "S". I wonder if it is asking too much for you to get an actual clue what you're talking about before you favour us again with your wisdom. In the meantime, maybe check on the meaning of "avatar".

Merriam Webster: avatar: "an electronic image that represents and may be manipulated by a computer user (as in a game)".

As to "having a clue", I note that you changed your avatar from the pic of a bearded individual (Frankie Boyle, perhaps?)  immediately after I pointed out that it was stolen. Guilt?

S

[Alan Klein]

And what's wrong with stuffing ballot boxes with votes of those that are entitled to vote?

Please, tell me what's wrong with getting as many people to vote as are entitled to?

Is there something wrong with lowering the barriers and making it easier for people to vote?

If fraud was so easy and so rampant, why is it only being addressed in the 45th presidency and not before? That doesn't make sense to me. What does make sense is a group of politicians have become obsessed with power and have forgotten the true purpose of democracy.

This is fake news.

Republicans are concerned that if enough people voted they'd be removed from power across most of the country. Therefore Republicans are changing to rules to favor themselves, like they do with gerrymandering.

Any true Republican is behind The Lincoln Project. If you call yourself a Republican and you're not 100% behind The Lincoln Project then you're not a Republican, you're a Trumpist. And if you're a Trumpist then you really should be talking to your nearest Moscow embassy/consulate about emigrating to Moscow to live under a proper authoritarian government because that's what the Trumpist party is about.

Gerrymandering goes on in every state.  In states whereDemocrats are in charge, they gerrymander to their advantage. 
Stuffing ballot boxes with legal votes is fine. The laws are to protect against illegal stuffing.

Illegality in elections is nothing new.  Jokes about the dead voting are not a joke.  You have seen my earlier posts where I showed 3 or 4 states that prosecuted crimes.  All states have similar rules as Georgia.  Here's a link for Pennsylvania's prosecutions going back to 1994, long before the last election.   A reminder that PA is a swing state where a few votes, either way, could create a win.

Here's one prosecution that went back to 1994 when Bush was president.  It was for a PA state senator election.  The problem is probation doesn't scare people enough to stop violating the laws.  Some states are more severe.  I saw one guy went to jail, for five years.   

Ramon Pratt

Ramon Pratt, a Democrat campaign worker, was involved in a massive absentee ballot scheme during the 1993 Pennsylvania special state senate election. He pleaded guilty to 22 counts of election law violations for his role in the scheme. Pratt was sentenced to two years of probation for his involvement.

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=PA&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=All

[TechTalk]

Merriam Webster: avatar: "an electronic image that represents and may be manipulated by a computer user (as in a game)".

As to "having a clue", I note that you changed your avatar from the pic of a bearded individual (Frankie Boyle, perhaps?)  immediately after I pointed out that it was stolen. Guilt?

S

Both you and Merriam Webster need to do some catching up with modern tech terminology.

https://techterms.com/definition/avatar

Regardless of the application, avatars allow people to represent themselves online in whatever way they want. They may be considered alter-egos, since users can customize characters that are completely different than their actual personas.

[Alan Klein]

Right.  We should make it harder for Democrats to vote because Republicans are ignorant and paranoid.  Got it.

But Alan, you do have a point.  How DOES someone who takes the bus an hour each day from their apartment in Macon, GA to earn $8.57 an hour at WALMART in Bumf**k, GA travel to London, or get in to see their portfolio manager in Manhattan?   It's a real conundrum.   Right up there with how the hell they'll pay rent this month if they lose $87.50 because they missed a day of work because Republicans know it makes them choose between voting and eating.

WTF is wrong with you?

When I was 18, I couldn't wait to vote.  I wasn't taking care of a family and working full time. IF someone can find time to get a driver's license, they can find time to get an ID so they can vote.  This has nothing to do with voting.  It's about getting democrats the opportunity to steal an election by finagling the voting process. 

All states have laws.  Here's a summary.  You can go to the web page and look up each state's laws.

Each state has some form of restriction on political activities near polling places when voting is taking place.

These restrictions usually include limiting the display of signs, handing out campaign literature or soliciting votes within a pre-determined distance (typically 50 to 200 feet) of a polling place. Some states also address what apparel voters can wear within polling places (read NCSL's blog on the electioneering apparel case that made it to the Supreme Court).

This webpage provides a breakdown of prohibitions in each state. Here is a summary:

15 states prohibit campaign apparel/buttons/stickers/placards 
37 states prohibit campaign materials/signs/banners/literature
28 States prohibit influencing voters/soliciting votes/political persuasion       
17 states prohibit circulating petitions/soliciting signatures         
9 states prohibit projecting sounds referring to candidates/issues             
6 states prohibit polls/exit polls
9 states prohibit loitering           
3 states prohibit peddling/advertising   
10 states prohibit voter intimidation/interfering with voter         
10 states prohibit obstructing entrance/hindering voter

The table below provides information on electioneering prohibitions for each state.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/electioneering.aspx

[Alan Klein]

Even worse - what if my wife makes 390K and I make 10K?  My God... BIDEN IS RAISING TAXES ON THE INDIGENT!!!  Someone alert OAN!

He lied.  He said no one making less than $400K would be taxed more.  He pushed the $1.9T under false pretensions just like Obama did with Obamacare - "You won't lose your doctor"  "Costs will go down".  They both lied.  I wonder if the fake press is writing it down and keeping a list?

[TechTalk]

If you take the Heritage Foundation database as a whole, it shows that voter fraud is not widespread and fairly rare. But before Alan proceeds to plaster the board with a copy and paste of each example, let's have a quote from one of the founders of The Heritage Foundation.

Paul Weyrich: “Now many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome — good government. They want everybody to vote. I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

https://billmoyers.com/story/how-does-a-political-party-get-less-votes-but-still-win-elections-gerrymandering-on-steroids

A 40-second video clip of Paul Weyrich saying what was quoted for any doubters...

https://www.youtube.com/Paul Weyrich - "I don't want everybody to vote"

[Alan Klein]

Alan - I apologize for getting so frustrated with you, but can I just ask one more question?  Simply put, if Black people are telling you these laws make it harder for them to cast legitimate votes, why don't you believe them?

I want everyone who wants to vote to be able to vote.  The problem is there's a lot of illegal voting going on despite what the left leaning Democrat-controlled press says.   Look at the link I posted before. You see crime after crime. 

There was a huge ballot harvesting crime only a few miles from where I live.  Most of the time it's democrats, although republicans are crooks too.  We have to have some reasonable rules.  Most people in America favor photo IDs, especially for mail-in ballotting even if most people oppose no water or food in line, although I doubt if it was spelled out that that would be legal if beyond 100 feet. 

How did these people vote before mail-in voting became popular, only recently?  They had to be registered at one time. Come on.  If people really want to vote, they can find the time once in their life to get an ID and register.  If that's the requirement we have to pay for the ability to vote, then the safety of the election process is also important.

[Alan Klein]

Both you and Merriam Webster need to do some catching ups with modern tech terminology.

https://techterms.com/definition/avatar

Regardless of the application, avatars allow people to represent themselves online in whatever way they want. They may be considered alter-egos, since users can customize characters that are completely different than their actual personas.

I wonder if someone could use his avatar to vote.

[Manoli]

To give some (dare I say 'unbiased') context to the coming legal battle over Georgia's latest voting law :

• Brian Kemp, the state’s Republican governor, says the bill makes it “easier to vote and harder to cheat”, and dismisses the measure’s opponents as “partisan activists”.
• Joe Biden, by contrast, calls it “Jim Crow on steroids”.

> Civil-rights groups have sued, alleging that the new law violates :

• First and Fourteenth amendments, as well as
• Section Two of the Voting Rights Act, which forbids racially discriminatory voting laws.

> Is Georgia’s bill, really a common-sense measure to make elections more secure, or racist voter suppression?

• It retains absentee voting, but voters will have to present state-issued ID and have less time than last year to request and return their ballots.
• They will have fewer drop-boxes than last year, but before the pandemic they had none at all.
• On balance, most voters in Georgia will probably have increased access to early voting, of which Georgia offers more than New York or Massachusetts.
• Of the bill’s ban on anyone other than poll workers giving water to voters, the ban only applies within 150 feet of a polling place or 25 feet of a voter, and allows poll workers to set up “an unattended receptacle” from which thirsty voters can serve themselves.

> The more worrying measures.

• The bill replaces the elected Secretary of State as head of the election board with someone appointed by the legislature, (which smacks of retribution against Brad Raffensperger, who withstood Donald Trump’s pressure to overturn the election).
• It  increases the state’s power to remove county election officials it deems poor performers.
• Some worry they will use it to cripple election boards in the populous, Democratic-leaning counties around Atlanta.
• Georgia’s legislature mulled banning early voting on Sunday—a measure with no reasonable purpose other than to make it harder for African-American churches to run “Souls to the Polls” drives for their congregants.
• Since Mr Trump’s loss, legislators in 47 states have introduced more than 360 bills to restrict voting (and that is a fair characterisation of Georgia’s bill: although it enshrines no-excuse absentee voting into law, voters will have less time to vote and fewer places to return ballots than they did last year).

> Of note:

• Mr Trump himself linked higher turnout to Republican losses; a Republican lawyer told the Supreme Court that striking restrictive laws would “put us at a competitive disadvantage relative to Democrats.”
• In the past eight presidential elections, Republicans have won the popular vote once. It is not hard to conclude that they have given up competing for it, and are instead directing their energy toward trying to game the system.

> Companies publicly voicing opposition to the new law include:

• American Express,
• JPMorgan Chase,
• Citigroup
• Microsoft.
• Coca-Cola, described the law as a step backwards and needs to be remedied
• Delta Airlines :
" After having time to now fully understand all that is in the bill, coupled with discussions with leaders and employees in the Black community, it’s evidence that the bill includes provisions that will make it harder for many underrepresented voters, particularly Black voters, to exercise their constitutional right to elect their representatives. That is wrong"
Apple :
“The right to vote is fundamental in a democracy. American history is the story of expanding the right to vote to all citizens, and Black people, in particular, have had to march, struggle and even give their lives for more than a century to defend that right.  Apple believes that, thanks in part to the power of technology, it ought to be easier than ever for every eligible citizen to exercise their right to vote. We support efforts to ensure that our democracy’s future is more hopeful and inclusive than its past.”

[jeremyrh]

Biden lied.

Too funny. "Lying Klein" accuses someone else of lying.

[Robert Roaldi]

There seems to be wider backlash against the silly voter laws in Georgia, https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/546268-more-gop-led-states-risk-corporate-backlash-like-georgias.

Let me ask Alan. Would it be ok if coolers full of water were made available anonymously to voters in line-ups? What if the people in the line-up sent one of their cousins to get them some popsicles on a hot day?

From what Alan has written, it sounds like election results were rigged in only those districts where his boys lost. I mean, that's not exactly credible, is it.

I understand wanting to make certain that the people who vote are entitled to, makes complete sense, but the consensus seems to be that this is not really an issue. I can't help but feel that this move is just a continuation of the ridiculous "rigged election" claims from a few months ago. That was fake news too. It's pretty obvious that this sudden concern over voters in line-ups being unfairly electioneered to is itself phoney. There were already laws in place to guard against the worst of that, this is just bullshit diversion.

Just out of curiosity, Alan, are ok you with them making it more difficult to vote than to buy a gun, say? Is that a good direction for the country to be going in?

[Robert Roaldi]

There was a huge ballot harvesting crime only a few miles from where I live.  Most of the time it's democrats ...

It wasn't huge and this must be the 20th time you mention it, we heard you the first time. You react like someone in a cult.

[Robert Roaldi]

It was most certainly huge and Jeremyrh has every right and reason to expect a retraction and apology. The  moronic Alan der Kleine persists and you fuel the trolling. If you really believe it to be not worthy of a full apology then, frankly, SHAME ON YOU.

What

I meant that the voter fraud that Alan has been harping about wasn't huge. I wasn't commenting on the  jeremyrh vs Klein sub-debate.

[jeremyrh]

As to "having a clue", I note that you changed your avatar from the pic of a bearded individual (Frankie Boyle, perhaps?)  immediately after I pointed out that it was stolen. Guilt?

"stolen"?  If you have a look at the process for setting your avatar on the site, you'll see that it invites you to select a photo of an actor or musician.  I suppose the site owner is inciting you to "steal"?  Dimbulb.

[Alan Klein]

There seems to be wider backlash against the silly voter laws in Georgia, https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/546268-more-gop-led-states-risk-corporate-backlash-like-georgias.

Let me ask Alan. Would it be ok if coolers full of water were made available anonymously to voters in line-ups? What if the people in the line-up sent one of their cousins to get them some popsicles on a hot day?

From what Alan has written, it sounds like election results were rigged in only those districts where his boys lost. I mean, that's not exactly credible, is it.

I understand wanting to make certain that the people who vote are entitled to, makes complete sense, but the consensus seems to be that this is not really an issue. I can't help but feel that this move is just a continuation of the ridiculous "rigged election" claims from a few months ago. That was fake news too. It's pretty obvious that this sudden concern over voters in line-ups being unfairly electioneered to is itself phoney. There were already laws in place to guard against the worst of that, this is just bullshit diversion.

Just out of curiosity, Alan, are ok you with them making it more difficult to vote than to buy a gun, say? Is that a good direction for the country to be going in?

From Manoli's post above regarding the so-called water" issue, the following is the rule.  Doesn't seem onerous to me.  They're trying to prevent electioneering.  What do you think? Maybe they can set up a serve-yourself popsicle stand.

Quote: • Of the bill’s ban on anyone other than poll workers giving water to voters, the ban only applies within 150 feet of a polling place or 25 feet of a voter, and allows poll workers to set up “an unattended receptacle” from which thirsty voters can serve themselves.

If rigged elections didn't work, why are there so many arrests every year for election fraud?  The one rigged election near me, if the postal clerk did notice the phony ballots, it would have worked and the people who did the crime would have won.  Actually, one of them did win the make-up election even though he was charged with the crime.  So much for honest politicians and ignorant voters.   

We have rules for gun ownership and rules for voting.  Reasonable laws for both are acceptable to me.  If they get to a point where it's onerous to have a gun or vote, then that rule is too much.  The Georgia rules are the same as many other states.  The Dems called them racist but no one actually bothered to read them.  Thank you Manoli for listing the highlights.

[Alan Klein]

It wasn't huge and this must be the 20th time you mention it, we heard you the first time. You react like someone in a cult.

It was huge if you were the candidate who lost.  To argue that stuffing ballot boxes isn't important or a big deal doesn't wash.  Remember, in presidential elections, you only have to stuff the ballot boxes in a couple of swing states as what happened when JFK probably stole the election in 1960 with Democrat Mayor Daley's marching dead in Chicago. 

[Manoli]

What

I meant that the voter fraud that Alan has been harping about wasn't huge. I wasn't commenting on the  jeremyrh vs Klein sub-debate.

‘Tis I who owes you a most sincere apology.
I totally misread the context and will delete my post.

[TechTalk]

Whites aren't playing the race card.

Since when?

[TechTalk]

Apologies - I misunderstood what you were getting at.  From what I’m reading he seems to have had serious mental issues (possibly as a result of CTE, but that pure conjecture on my part).  Anyway, point being I’m not sure it’s correct to call it “PC” washing when it’s far from conclusive that there’s anything other than delusional behavior involved (not that it really matters much, I guess?)

This doesn’t seem to be racial or political - just a guy with serious issues.

Agreed. It has some appearance of suicide by cop to me. It's tragic that another Capitol police officer's life was taken in the process.