Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[TechTalk]

You can be sure most states will now examine the problems Texas had and try to stop it from happening in their states.

Most states' utilities are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission which has mandatory reliability standards for operators within its jurisdiction to avoid what occurred in Texas.

[John Camp]

Indeed. I’ve looked into this and a system that’s coming from Generac. I’m on a 3.6kwh solar tracker system. We currently have a Generac 14kwh generator (propane) to back up our well pump, refrigerator and all heat/cooling/ERV and a few backup plugs if the power goes out. Spoke with Generac a few weeks ago, I was told, forget this battery backup stuff; the batteries are super expensive to replace and don’t last that long.

In this next year, I've been thinking of adding a natural-gas backup generators from Kohler or Generac, but in 2011 New Mexico had a pretty widespread natural gas failure due to cold weather conditions, and when natural gas fails, it takes a while to recover. But, I'm thinking all we really need is for *either* the electric or the natural gas to work, to keep a house warm or cool. That is, if the natural gas fails, you plug in electric heaters (we have two of those.) If the power fails, you run the generator. If both fail during a freeze, you drain your water pipes and check into the Phoenix Four Seasons. Or fly to Cancun. 8-)

[Alan Klein]

Most states utilities are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission which has mandatory reliability standards for operators within its jurisdiction to avoid what occurred in Texas.

If it works like the SEC, we're in trouble. 

[TechTalk]

Should the states follow a national policy opening schools, restaurants, and other venues, or should each state be allowed to make those determinations as they see fit for their state?

What are you talking about? Each state does make those determinations as they see fit.

Should we do away with the federal system?

The federal system for what exactly?

[TechTalk]

If it works like the SEC, we're in trouble.

Yeah. That's not a rabbit hole of misdirection which I'm going to follow you down. Any volunteers?

[Alan Klein]

I agree with Alan on one aspect of this: I don't think the government should bail out people on what amount to gambling losses. I do think the government should be able to ban some forms of gambling. (Like on electricity costs.)

This Texas situation is almost like a reverse numbers game. In a standard numbers game, you try to pick three numbers (out of the 1000 possible, if the game allows 000) and you bet a dollar. If you hit the number, you get paid $500 or $600 which means over the course of years, you'll probably lose half your money. But nobody cares about $1 a day, while $500 or $600 can be a major gift. Texas reversed that -- you saved a couple of bucks a day (maybe) but when your number came up, you were screwed. But it's still all a numbers game.

I still don't understand how the utility can up the charges so much.  It sounds like they're applying their losses to just the few who have this special plan. I wonder if that's even legal?  Am I responsible when a company I'm doing business with has losses with their other customers?  Since there's no way for me to quantify those costs when I agreed to the deal, how can they just charge me whatever their losses are?  Unless something else is going on, I don't see how that could stand up in court constitutionally. 

[Robert Roaldi]

That's the beauty of the federal system. It allows each state to make its own mistakes. 

How many mistakes are they allowed to make before you can call it a grift? Especially when many other jurisdictions around the world are getting it right and best practices are fully known by many people. It's not as if they invented electrical grids last week.

Should some states try out surgery without latex gloves just to see? I mean, maybe they've all been conned by the latex manufacturers. Follow the money. Do your own research.

[Alan Klein]

In this next year, I've been thinking of adding a natural-gas backup generators from Kohler or Generac, but in 2011 New Mexico had a pretty widespread natural gas failure due to cold weather conditions, and when natural gas fails, it takes a while to recover. But, I'm thinking all we really need is for *either* the electric or the natural gas to work, to keep a house warm or cool. That is, if the natural gas fails, you plug in electric heaters (we have two of those.) If the power fails, you run the generator. If both fail during a freeze, you drain your water pipes and check into the Phoenix Four Seasons. Or fly to Cancun. 8-)

Curious what they were quoting for a generator down there.  In New Jersey, a 22kw or 24kw were going between $9K and 11K installed, a lot of money.  That includes running gas lines about 100 feet as well. 

[digitaldog]

In this next year, I've been thinking of adding a natural-gas backup generators from Kohler or Generac, but in 2011 New Mexico had a pretty widespread natural gas failure due to cold weather conditions, and when natural gas fails, it takes a while to recover. But, I'm thinking all we really need is for *either* the electric or the natural gas to work, to keep a house warm or cool. That is, if the natural gas fails, you plug in electric heaters (we have two of those.) If the power fails, you run the generator. If both fail during a freeze, you drain your water pipes and check into the Phoenix Four Seasons. Or fly to Cancun. 8-)

When we built the home in 2012 (HERS index 48) I deiced not to have any natural gas, all 100% electricity. I did sub in a connection if we ever sell the home, some really want a gas stove (note, Induction is SO much better). I'm not missing gas whatsoever and yes, it it can fail, worse blow up.
With a 250 gallon Propane tank, our generator could run for weeks, but again, it's not a whole house system, just the critical stuff. Our needs to heat and cool is modest because we have geothermal (ground source) radiant heat and cooling and a very efficient heat pump.
BTW, the Generac electrician seemed to prefer Kohler.

[Robert Roaldi]

Yeah. That's not a rabbit hole of misdirection which I'm going to follow you down. Any volunteers?

I won't go down it, but it's a bizarre angle. If the SEC doesn't catch the crooks, then the government can't do anything right. If they do investigate more then they're interfering with the free market. It's not a real discussion, is it, it's a "Klein black hole". Enter at one's peril, and I'm staying out of this one.

Btw, I'll never find the article anymore, but the Trump administration cut a lot of financial regulator budgets precisely from their investigative departments. Might be interesting to follow that money, especially considering all the wild-ass statements and tweets that Trump made about specific industries and even specific companies resulting in market volatility.

[Alan Klein]

What are you talking about? Each state does make those determinations as they see fit.

The federal system for what exactly?

Well, should they make independent decisions for their states or should Washington tell everyone what to do? 

As far as for what exactly, well, you tell us what the federal government should decide about?  You're the one claiming they know best.

[Alan Klein]

How many mistakes are they allowed to make before you can call it a grift? Especially when many other jurisdictions around the world are getting it right and best practices are fully known by many people. It's not as if they invented electrical grids last week.

Should some states try out surgery without latex gloves just to see? I mean, maybe they've all been conned by the latex manufacturers. Follow the money. Do your own research.

What's your recommendation?  That we do away with the federal system?

[Alan Klein]

I won't go down it, but it's a bizarre angle. If the SEC doesn't catch the crooks, then the government can't do anything right. If they do investigate more then they're interfering with the free market. It's not a real discussion, is it, it's a "Klein black hole". Enter at one's peril, and I'm staying out of this one.

Btw, I'll never find the article anymore, but the Trump administration cut a lot of financial regulator budgets precisely from their investigative departments. Might be interesting to follow that money, especially considering all the wild-ass statements and tweets that Trump made about specific industries and even specific companies resulting in market volatility.

Did you not read my post about the federal system and how one state can help the whole country either by its mistakes or successes?  In any case, your point about Trump shows that there is just as much corruption in Washington as there can be in many states.  No one has a monopoly on corruption.  The Fed under the control of the Federal government is ripping off the entire country for billions and trillions.  Do you think that Janet Yellon and Jerome Powell arent playing potsy together when no one's looking? 

[faberryman]

What's your recommendation?  That we do away with the federal system?

I think the federal government should do some things and the state governments should do some things. We could argue about who does what until the cows come home, so that's about all I'll say.

[TechTalk]

I still don't understand how the utility can up the charges so much

How Does Electricity Work in Texas?

About 85% of Texans live in a deregulated energy market. In a deregulated area, there are no monopolies over the local electric utilities allowing consumers to choose their home energy provider. Currently, there are over 125 Retail Energy Providers in Texas competing to be your new electric company and the incentives are endless.

Variable Electricity Rates

With a variable rate, your kWh price changes every month according to market price variations, or at the discretion of your retail electricity provider. As a result, the kilowatt-hour price charged to you can increase or decrease unpredictably each month. However, you are not required to purchase electricity for a minimum term, and can switch to another provider without penalties.

Electricity prices in Texas are determined by supply and demand. As a consequence, variable rate plans are expensive during summer, when demand reaches its peak. However, you will also save on power bills during winter, when demand is low.

A variable rate contract is recommended if you want the flexibility to switch your energy provider at any time. You can take advantage of this flexibility by keeping track of the best electricity rates available in Houston or Dallas-Fort Worth. However, you can expect hefty power bills during summer if you stay with an unfavorable contract.

https://quickelectricity.com/Choosing the Best Electricity Rate Plan in Texas – A Quick Guide

Hey... Supply and Demand in a deregulated energy market. Its the free market baby! Always the best way to go!

Unless something else is going on, I don't see how that could stand up in court constitutionally.

Let me know if you find something in the Constitution that covers electric rates to consumers from private utility companies in a deregulated energy market. The Constitution is an extremely short document. Shouldn't take long to check it out.

[Alan Klein]

I think the federal government should do some things and the state governments should do some things. We could argue about who does what until the end of time, so that's about all I'll say.

I agree. But I just want to add that to think the Federal government's solutions are better than the state's, well, that is not true.  Incompetence in government is just as common as corruption.

[TechTalk]

Well, should they make independent decisions for their states or should Washington tell everyone what to do? 

Have you ever read the Constitution? It's less than about 20-pages long, depending on font size and formatting. Heck, it'll fit in your shirt pocket for easy reference.

Check out the Tenth Amendment.

[faberryman]

Do you think that Janet Yellon and Jerome Powell arent playing potsy together when no one's looking?

So I had no idea what "potsy" is, so I looked it up and it appears to be a variation on hopscotch. Girls, not boys, played hopscotch when and where I was living as a child, so I don't know how to play hopscotch. I think it involves hoping around sometimes on one foot and sometimes on two, and maybe throwing a rubber ball and some jacks around. Please do not try to explain potsy or hopscotch to me. I have enough on my plate as it is. Anyway, I don't know exactly how potsy relates to Janet Yellon and Jerome Powell except perhaps that you may mean they are coordinating their efforts, although I sort of thought hopscotch was a competition between two players. Is their something sinister about "playing potsy", having never done so before?

[Alan Klein]

How Does Electricity Work in Texas?

About 85% of Texans live in a deregulated energy market. In a deregulated area, there are no monopolies over the local electric utilities allowing consumers to choose their home energy provider. Currently, there are over 125 Retail Energy Providers in Texas competing to be your new electric company and the incentives are endless.

Variable Electricity Rates

With a variable rate, your kWh price changes every month according to market price variations, or at the discretion of your retail electricity provider. As a result, the kilowatt-hour price charged to you can increase or decrease unpredictably each month. However, you are not required to purchase electricity for a minimum term, and can switch to another provider without penalties.

Electricity prices in Texas are determined by supply and demand. As a consequence, variable rate plans are expensive during summer, when demand reaches its peak. However, you will also save on power bills during winter, when demand is low.

A variable rate contract is recommended if you want the flexibility to switch your energy provider at any time. You can take advantage of this flexibility by keeping track of the best electricity rates available in Houston or Dallas-Fort Worth. However, you can expect hefty power bills during summer if you stay with an unfavorable contract.

https://quickelectricity.com/Choosing the Best Electricity Rate Plan in Texas – A Quick Guide

Hey... Supply and Demand in a deregulated energy market. Its the free market baby! Always the best way to go!

Let me know if you find something in the Constitution that covers electric rates to consumers from private utility companies in a deregulated energy market. The Constitution is an extremely short document. Shouldn't take long to check it out.

The article you linked to explains the plan these people apparently got caught under.   It explains the risk in great detail.  Yet these people signed up.  A fool and his money are soon separated.

Here's is the plan's description for the people who got charges a lot.  It's one of four options homeowners can choose from. Why should anyone reimburse these people?  They saved thousands over the years and now they have to pay up.  Pay now or pay later, probably more later.

What Is a Wholesale Electricity Plan?
A wholesale electricity plan is another type of contract, but it can be very risky. The electricity provider normally charges a fixed monthly fee plus all legally required charges, and the wholesale kWh price is transferred directly. Purchasing electricity with no markup may seem like a good deal, but consider that the wholesale market is very volatile.

Texas has a price limit of $9,000 per megawatt-hour in the wholesale market, and this threshold has been reached during summer. This translates into $9/kWh for the end user, which is around 80 times higher than the average price for homeowners. Texan homes have an average electricity bill of around $130 per month, but a wholesale electricity plan can charge you this amount in just a few summer days. Buyer beware
https://quickelectricity.com/choosing-electricity-plans/

[TechTalk]

As far as for what exactly, well, you tell us what the federal government should decide about?  You're the one claiming they know best.

Hmmm... I think I'll just go with the Constitution. It separates the powers between the federal and state governments.

And... I've never claimed what you're claiming that I claim. Sort that sentence out.