Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Is that why airline travel became so awful, btw, and I'm talking pre-Covid here? Hell, I'd rather pay a bit more and not be treated like cattle going to market.

I agree that it may have been nicer years ago.  I remember flying on Delta and you'd get a nice steak dinner with all the trimmings.  Now they give you a little bag of nuts and a Coke. Of course, even with steak, people complained about the food.  I thought it was great.  But the fact is, regulation kept higher prices. If I recall, back in the sixties, it would cost around $300 to fly to Florida from NYC.  Today you can do a round trip for $250.  Not only is the absolute cost less, it's many times lower when you consider inflation and the loss of the value of the currency in all these years.

Of course, if you want better arrangements today, you could fly and pay more for business or first class.  Those costs probably equate to the old prices.  But now, if you can fly coach, you save an enormous amount compared to when the airlines were regulated.  Government regulation always assures higher prices.  It squashes competition, reduces services, etc. 

[TechTalk]

In Texas the regulators were deregulating.

Well, at least Texas doesn't have state income taxes.

What misdirection. [?]

[Alan Klein]

It's not misdirection.  It's to remind people that Texas is business and people-friendly, or at least try to be.  They believe in freedom and letting people make their own decisions about life.  They keep regulation down.  They let people keep the money they earned by not taxing their income.  It's part of Texas culture. If you don't like that, don't move there.  If you want government oversight over your life and high taxes, move to New Jersey where I live.

[TechTalk]

It's not misdirection.

Wikipedia: "In theatrical magic, misdirection is a form of deception in which the performer draws audience attention to one thing to distract it from another."

[faberryman]

Free markets are about letting competition decide winners and losers among products, industries, and companies.  It means the government stays out of these things, only responsible for providing fairness, an even playing field for everyone,  and a way to redress disputes through a court system.  It doesn't mean there's no regulation.  In most states I'm aware, public utilities are regulated, so this can't happen.  If it did, what were the regulators doing?  I don't think the utilities would be able to keep huge increases like these without proper notification before the fact.

I think you need to re-read Adam Smith. You sound like a socialist. Fairness? Level playing field? What happened to the Invisible Hand? Of course it is possible I didn't read Adam Smith closely enough. Probably because I realized he was living in a dream world after I got a citation from the city for running my lemonade stand down at the end of the driveway one Saturday morning without a business license. Not only that, no one bought my lemonade. I had to drink it all myself.

[faberryman]

It's not misdirection.  It's to remind people that Texas is business and people-friendly, or at least try to be.  They believe in freedom and letting people make their own decisions about life.  They keep regulation down.  They let people keep the money they earned by not taxing their income.  It's part of Texas culture. If you don't like that, don't move there.  If you want government oversight over your life and high taxes, move to New Jersey where I live.

Hey Marge, the electric bill was $17,000 this month. Sounds a little high. But we're living the free life in Texas, aren't we. [cue Blue Bonnet Lady]

[digitaldog]

It's not misdirection. 

OK good old confusion, agreed. 

It's to remind people that Texas is business and people-friendly, or at least try to be.

 
Except when it isn't, as outlined and ignored.

They believe in freedom and letting people make their own decisions about life.  They keep regulation down.

 
And in terms of this discussion, suffering from it.
Do examine how the power grid didn't fail in Amarillo etc:

Explained: Why the Panhandle is on a different power grid than the rest of Texas
As millions of Texans deal with prolonged power outages, the Panhandle region has remained mostly unscathed.
The majority of the Panhandle is not on the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) power grid. Instead, Southwest Power Pool serves Xcel Energy in the Panhandle and the South Plains.

Xcel Energy Spokesman Wes Reeves said the Panhandle joined the Southwest Power Pool in 1978.

“The United States is divided into three main power grids, kind of roughly divided by the Rocky Mountains. So, everything west of the Rockies is the Western grid, and everything east is called the Eastern grid,” Reeves said. “Then you have this little piece in Texas—not little, it’s pretty big—that is known as the Texas grid. It’s entirely within the state of Texas, it’s not connected to these other grids except for a few points where there might be some emergency access, but it’s not connected in the way we are with Oklahoma, and Kansas, and the neighboring states.”
https://www.myhighplains.com/news/local-news/explained-why-the-panhandle-is-on-a-different-power-grid-than-the-rest-of-texas/

If you want government oversight over your life and high taxes, move to New Jersey where I live.

You sure describe your decisions (where you live) as being stupid. 

[faberryman]

Wikipedia: "In theatrical magic, misdirection is a form of deception in which the performer draws audience attention to one thing to distract it from another."

In logic class we referred to it as the logical fallacy of whataboutism.

[digitaldog]

It's to remind people that Texas is business and people-friendly, or at least try to be.  They believe in freedom and letting people make their own decisions about life.  They keep regulation down. 

One New Yorker will not see nor read this, but for those with interest:
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/texas-power-grid-disaster-shows-lone-star-state-s-bravado-ncna1258301

Texas power grid disaster shows Lone Star state's bravado is responsible for its mess
The state’s famously independent attitude and secessionist tendency have created a human-made disaster on top of a natural one.

“It was clarifying,” a former Ohio resident told the Texas Tribune, “because now we know when things hit the fan, we’re in it alone.”

That reality explains how this could this happen here; how the nation’s No. 1 energy-producing state couldn’t produce enough power to keep its people safe and warm. There are lots of details and contributing factors, but the bottom line is that the state’s famously independent attitude and secessionist tendency have created a human-made disaster on top of a natural one.

Experts say that the state’s power grid was unprepared for the surge in demand brought about by the storm’s below-freezing temperatures. Extreme cold knocked down many of the gas-fired power plants just as demand was climbing and wind turbines stopped working due to the weather conditions. Government decisions not to require equipment upgrades to withstand extreme low temperatures and its longtime policy of largely operating independently from other grids in the country left the system unprepared for the winter storm.

[Craig Lamson]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/20/us/texas-storm-electric-bills.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Customer billed sixteen large for power by “Griddy”, his electricity provider, wiping out his savings.

Hey, <insert usual suspects here> How’s this for capitalism and “free” markets ?

Still all-in for deregulation as the key to prosperity?

The free market and capitialism working perfectly.

Its the plan the customer has chosen for their property.  They could have chosen something else. 

Its not unlike the practice of locking in a price, long term, for say natural gas at x$'s per therm and watching the price drop over time.  You are still stuck paying the higher price over the term of your contract.

You make your choices and you then live with the outcome. No one held a gun their head and forced them to make this choice. 

[TechTalk]

The free market and capitialism working perfectly.

And just wait and see how well unregulated capitalism works when it is imperfect! Yeeee-Hah!

[Alan Klein]

Wikipedia: "In theatrical magic, misdirection is a form of deception in which the performer draws audience attention to one thing to distract it from another."

Whatever.

[Alan Klein]

The free market and capitialism working perfectly.

Its the plan the customer has chosen for their property.  They could have chosen something else. 

Its not unlike the practice of locking in a price, long term, for say natural gas at x$'s per therm and watching the price drop over time.  You are still stuck paying the higher price over the term of your contract.

You make your choices and you then live with the outcome. No one held a gun their head and forced them to make this choice. 

It's what happened with people who had a variable mortgage. 

[Robert Roaldi]

The free market and capitialism working perfectly.

Its the plan the customer has chosen for their property.  They could have chosen something else. 

Its not unlike the practice of locking in a price, long term, for say natural gas at x$'s per therm and watching the price drop over time.  You are still stuck paying the higher price over the term of your contract.

You make your choices and you then live with the outcome. No one held a gun their head and forced them to make this choice.

Harry is being wheeled into emerge on a stretcher bleeding from a gunshot wound to the gut. Doc leans over and says, "Intestinal gunshot surgery is normally $16,000 but today's spot price is $170,000. Guy over on the next stretcher is offering me $245,000 but you got here first and I'm not sure he can come up with the money. My staff is doing a credit check on him."

Harry looks over to his wife, Marge, and asks, "What do you say, re-mortage the house, pay him the $170,000?" Marge thinks it over, looks at the doc, "Operate on that other guy, I need to talk to my mortgage broker, see what the rates are. Harry shot himself cleaning his own gun, there has be to some personal responsibility here, we don't want to encourage moral hazard, do we, or who knows where we'd end up?"

[Alan Klein]

And just wait and see how well unregulated capitalism works when it is imperfect! Yeeee-Hah!

The issue is government bailouts like we have now that it distorts capitalism and free markets.  In an effort to help, the government only makes it worse.  Do you really think the stock market is going to stay this high with the economy failing because of so much debt and bubbles due to the Fed printing?

[TechTalk]

Whatever.

The route from what about to whatever is short.

[Alan Klein]

Harry is being wheeled into emerge on a stretcher bleeding from a gunshot wound to the gut. Doc leans over and says, "Intestinal gunshot surgery is normally $16,000 but today's spot price is $170,000. Guy over on the next stretcher is offering me $245,000 but you got here first and I'm not sure he can come up with the money. My staff is doing a credit check on him."

Harry looks over to his wife, Marge, and asks, "What do you say, re-mortage the house, pay him the $170,000?" Marge thinks it over, looks at the doc, "Operate on that other guy, I need to talk to my mortgage broker, see what the rates are. Harry shot himself cleaning his own gun, there has be to some personal responsibility here, we don't want to encourage moral hazard, do we, or who knows where we'd end up?"

The government covers half of medical expenses in the US.  We're already socialist.  That's the reason for such high medical costs.  And the printing.  All that printing.

[Craig Lamson]

Harry is being wheeled into emerge on a stretcher bleeding from a gunshot wound to the gut. Doc leans over and says, "Intestinal gunshot surgery is normally $16,000 but today's spot price is $170,000. Guy over on the next stretcher is offering me $245,000 but you got here first and I'm not sure he can come up with the money. My staff is doing a credit check on him."

Harry looks over to his wife, Marge, and asks, "What do you say, re-mortage the house, pay him the $170,000?" Marge thinks it over, looks at the doc, "Operate on that other guy, I need to talk to my mortgage broker, see what the rates are. Harry shot himself cleaning his own gun, there has be to some personal responsibility here, we don't want to encourage moral hazard, do we, or who knows where we'd end up?"

You make your choices and you deal with the consequences. Life offers no guarantees except death.

[TechTalk]

The issue is government bailouts

Actually, the issue being discussed was Texas utilities and pricing.

[faberryman]

The free market and capitialism working perfectly.

Its the plan the customer has chosen for their property.  They could have chosen something else. 

Its not unlike the practice of locking in a price, long term, for say natural gas at x$'s per therm and watching the price drop over time.  You are still stuck paying the higher price over the term of your contract.

You make your choices and you then live with the outcome. No one held a gun their head and forced them to make this choice.

I am not necessarily against free markets in theory, but I have noticed that in free markets it is the little guy who most often gets screwed, and that tempers my enthusiasm.