Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Peter McLennan]

Interesting story about "Trump mind-meld" in the NYT today, about a former Navy SEAL. I found the story really interesting. I subscribe, so this might be behind a paywall, but I think you can usually get in.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/26/us/navy-seal-adam-newbold-capitol.html

Yes.  Very interesting and very depressing.

[Alan Klein]

The additional 200M doses announced yesterday represent new federal contracts.  The 600M-dose total will permit the vaccination of everyone in the United States who is eligible under the current clinical trial protocols (all adults except for those with certain specified medical restrictions), with a small buffer that can be used to begin the vaccination of young people when it has been proven safe to do so.

Well of course it's not over.  If Trump was president still, he would continue to order as well.  My only point is that the press isn't saying anything about how Warp Speed set the whole process going including 100's of million of shots ordered and available and paid for during the Trump administration. Worse still, the press accepted Biden's comment that Trump left a bare cupboard.  That's patently false.  Orders were made by Trump through June. Biden is just adding to it.   It's Biden Lie #2. 

[jeremyrh]

I didn't say he should only pick middle-age white men.  He should pick qualified people regardless of their race or gender or age. 

Indeed. But what do you consider to be the “qualifications” to run a country with a diverse population. Do you consider yourself, for example, to understand the issues in inner city Baltimore and create legislation to help?

What's fair about separating people by class as they do in Great Britain?  That's identity politics and doesn't unite people.

Now you seem to have mixed me up with another contributor. I have certainly never expressed support for the bunch of lying incompetent grifters we have saddled ourselves with, pumping public money into their own pockets as the Covid death toll reaches new heights.

[Alan Klein]

Precisely. 

For the last time, Alan, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE MARKET.

There is a free market and most things you buy and are produced are determined by it.  The advancement in camera equipment is a perfect example of how it developed organically.  Of course, government policies, rules and regulations, taxes, unions, minimum wages, green energy rebates, and other government oversight effects free markets.  They're not 100% freely determined.  But the less government interference we have, the better the outcomes produced by free markets.

[faberryman]

I didn't say he should only pick middle-age white men.  He should pick qualified people regardless of their race or gender or age.  By picking based on race and gender, he's perpetuating discrimination and separating Americans into adversarial groups. What's fair about separating people by class as they do in Great Britain?  That's identity politics and doesn't unite people.

I'll ask you the same questions I asked Joe.  Which of the minorities and women Biden has selected are not qualified for the job? Why is it identity politics when Biden selects a minority or a woman, but not identity politics when Trump selects a white male? Was it identity politics when Trump selected Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education or Ben Carson for Secretary of Housing and Urban Development? Any sane person would conclude neither of them was qualified for the job. I certainly didn't hear you complaining about identity politics when Trump announced those two selections.

[faberryman]

There is a free market and most things you buy and are produced are determined by it.  The advancement in camera equipment is a perfect example of how it developed organically.  Of course, government policies, rules and regulations, taxes, unions, minimum wages, green energy rebates, and other government oversight effects free markets.  They're not 100% freely determined.  But the less government interference we have, the better the outcomes produced by free markets.

Because? I know the question has been asked before, but we have never received an answer. You are just making a bald assertion. Repeating it over and over again doesn't shed any light on your thinking. It sheds light on your not thinking. You certainly are not going to convince anyone your position is correct without advancing some persuasive arguments and true facts. Stamping your foot won't get you anywhere.

[Alan Klein]

Indeed. But what do you consider to be the “qualifications” to run a country with a diverse population. Do you consider yourself, for example, to understand the issues in inner city Baltimore and create legislation to help?
...

Are you suggesting that only black people can run Baltimore?  That's racist and perpetuates racism.  You've made my point. 

[chez]

I didn't say he should only pick middle-age white men.  He should pick qualified people regardless of their race or gender or age.  By picking based on race and gender, he's perpetuating discrimination and separating Americans into adversarial groups. What's fair about separating people by class as they do in Great Britain?  That's identity politics and doesn't unite people.

By bringing in different race and gender, you bring in different perspectives on things. Getting people that all agree with each other or have the same backgrounds or perspectives leads to a very narrow view of things.

[chez]

There is a free market and most things you buy and are produced are determined by it.  The advancement in camera equipment is a perfect example of how it developed organically.  Of course, government policies, rules and regulations, taxes, unions, minimum wages, green energy rebates, and other government oversight effects free markets.  They're not 100% freely determined.  But the less government interference we have, the better the outcomes produced by free markets.

Yet you applaud when Trump puts tariffs on stuff made out of the USA. Shouldn't we just let the free market determine what and where things are made?

[chez]

Are you suggesting that only black people can run Baltimore?  That's racist and perpetuates racism.  You've made my point.

I don't think he said anything like that. I think he said someone who has detailed experience with the issues in Baltimore brings more to the table than someone who knows diddly squat about these issues.

[faberryman]

That's only a lie if you start from the position that it's just middle-aged white men who count. I can see how a middle-aged white man might think that, but if you had a bit more self-awareness you'd have a different view.

Don't leave out old white men.

[Robert Roaldi]

Interesting story about "Trump mind-meld" in the NYT today, about a former Navy SEAL. I found the story really interesting. I subscribe, so this might be behind a paywall, but I think you can usually get in.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/26/us/navy-seal-adam-newbold-capitol.html

Sounds more like a tribal "cult" than anything else. I wonder if any of the past cult de-programming experience could provide some insights.

It's a truly sad thing because the people who fell out of the middle class largely through no fault of their own do have some legitimate grievances about how their country has treated them. Some basic strategic planning was not done. It's easy to see why they want to latch onto something that sounds like salvation, but geez was Trump ever a bad choice of messiah. They must be starting to feel like they were doubly effed over. It must be starting to dawn on even the most fervent followers that he never gave a toss about any of them. How does a true believer get over that one?

[Robert Roaldi]

Are you suggesting that only black people can run Baltimore?  That's racist and perpetuates racism.  You've made my point.

Were you OK with Trump hiring family?

[faberryman]

Are you suggesting that only black people can run Baltimore?  That's racist and perpetuates racism.  You've made my point.

This is of course our old friend strawman. You'd think by now Alan would have figured out that none of these logical fallacies are going to work. It neatly fits the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Maybe that explains it.

[TechTalk]

It seems Biden is trying to take credit for Operation Warp speed by claiming he's ordering a lot of new doses.

He did order a lot of new doses—200 million of them.

I don't know the exact breakout because he's not giving it.

That's false. Biden stated that he has ordered 100 million more doses each from both Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna.

But much of the additional doses had already been ordered or placed on order to be released.  All Biden is doing is releasing the previous orders Trump set up.

Utter and complete nonsense. NONE of the new orders that Biden has placed "had already been ordered or placed on order to be released" or "previous orders Trump set up".

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/14/covid-vaccine-us-passed-on-more-pfizer-doses-in-november-says-board-member-gottlieb

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/trump-administration-passed-chance-lock-more-pfizer-vaccine-doses

Where's the media on calling him on this?  Well, of course, they won't mention it.

Well, of course, they won't mention it. It's a set of fantasies and lies.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-administration-orders-additional-200-million-doses-covid-19-vaccine

The agreement would lessen the country's reliance on getting additional doses on the market from other manufacturers. The Trump administration had passed on buying more doses from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna and was instead betting that additional vaccines from Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca would come to market. Johnson & Johnson said it will release data for its single-dose vaccine in the coming days.

[LesPalenik]

Well of course it's not over.  If Trump was president still, he would continue to order as well.  My only point is that the press isn't saying anything about how Warp Speed set the whole process going including 100's of million of shots ordered and available and paid for during the Trump administration. Worse still, the press accepted Biden's comment that Trump left a bare cupboard.  That's patently false.  Orders were made by Trump through June. Biden is just adding to it.   It's Biden Lie #2.

Trump had a lot of time to add new vaccine orders. Instead he wasted time on whining about the stolen elections and playing golf.

[TechTalk]

But we know they're in the tank for Biden and anti-Trump.

I don't know who "we" may be, but you've made it clear that you're in the tank for Trump and anti-Biden.

So the public gets a distorted view of what's really happening.

Your devotion to an ideology only allows for a distorted view of what's really happening.

[MattBurt]

My wife who works for a public health nonprofit just sat in a meeting yesterday with a group of national healthcare professionals and HHS representatives. They are in a bit of a panic right now for the vaccine rollout because there was literally no national distribution plan. So on Jan 20 they started one but it still has a ways to go.

[faberryman]

Similar to EV and battery manufacturing. But in this case, Tesla is winning.

Speaking of batteries, did you know that every power tool company uses a different battery for their rechargeable tools. So now when you buy a power tool, you have to chose between say the best power drill or the power drill that uses the same battery as your power saw. It seems like the free market would have sorted that out by now. Nope. No winners or losers yet. Just consumers having to make compromises. By the time the free market sorts that out, we will have moved on to new technologies and no one will care who won or lost. Kind of like Sony making Betamax for 27 years before they finally threw in the towel and admitted VHS won. Except by the time the free market selected VHS as winner and Betamax as loser, we had already been watching DVDs for 7 years. So I'm not sure exactly how that was the optimum result.

[digitaldog]

Trump had a lot of time to add new vaccine orders. Instead he wasted time on whining about the stolen elections and playing golf.

And insurrection which it appears he'll get away with which is sad.