Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[faberryman]

A Trump appointed federal district court judge in Texas threw out the lawsuit filed by Rep. Gohmert against Pence which sought to let Pence pick the President on standing grounds.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/01/politics/gohmert-pence-electoral-college-lawsuit-thrown-out/index.html

[Robert Roaldi]

Of course, the Girl Scouts are complaining about The Boy Scouts poaching their members. They even sued them. I not sure why anyone would join either group.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/girls-scouts-accuse-boy-scouts-of-poaching-members/ar-BB1cijvN?ocid=uxbndlbing

It's a tough world out there, just ask Alan. The sooner those mollycoddled kids learn it the better, and if it takes dragging them through the courts then so be it. I think that's the real lesson that Trump has been trying to teach the country with all those lost lawsuits of his. Not to work hard and study, that's for suckers and losers, but to launch pointless law suits, that's what it's all about. And make sure they spell your name right. And marry often.

When I was a kid I had to walk 5 km to school and back, and it was uphill both ways. And they made me wear neck ties. Nobody handed me a merit badge for learning to tie a double Windsor. We didn't even have cable at home, had to use rabbit ears on a B&W TV set, can you imagine that. 

[Robert Roaldi]

A Trump appointed federal district court judge in Texas threw out the lawsuit filed by Rep. Gohmert against Pence which sought to let Pence pick the President on standing grounds.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/01/politics/gohmert-pence-electoral-college-lawsuit-thrown-out/index.html

When they do that, toss a law suit out I mean, do they charge the guys court costs or do Alan and other taxpayers foot that bill? Are court costs included in the phoney government's fake basket of goods that they use to calculate their BS cost of living?

[TechTalk]

You're getting in the weeds. The local governments made the deal with congress who runs the IRS rules to avoid having to pay the 6.2% that other employers would have paid.

First you asserted that New York City made a deal with the IRS. Now you change it to "The local governments made the deal with congress who runs the IRS rules". Which local governments made that deal with Congress? When did they make that deal? Why does it sound an awful lot like you're just winging it and making it up as you go along?

In any case, your facts need clarification which is getting into the weeds even further.

Social Security exempted employees covered under state and local government pension plans when it first began. Subsequent changes to the law beginning in 1951 altered those exemptions at various times.

See pages 3 and 4 for the timeline of changes for public employees.

https://www.ssa.gov/section218training/documents/Resource_3.pdf

or Page #2 - Key Dates here.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p963.pdf

It was because I wasn't getting a pension during those four years that neither NYC nor I paid into Social Security.

Pure horseradish. The opposite would have been true. Public employees NOT covered under a state or local government pension would have required to participate and pay into Social Security. How or whether that time of not paying in as a public employee affects your Social Security payments today— that would be getting into the weeds.

Once I joined the NYC pension plan, we both started to pay it like everyone else.

That would depend on when that occurred. See the timelines or key dates linked above.

[Alan Klein]

First you asserted that New York City made a deal with the IRS. Now you change it to "The local governments made the deal with congress who runs the IRS rules". Which local governments made that deal with Congress? When did they make that deal? Why does it sound an awful lot like you're just winging it and making it up as you go along?

Social Security exempted employees covered under state and local government pension plans when it first began. Subsequent changes to the law beginning in 1951 altered those exemptions at various times.

See pages 3 and 4 for the timeline of changes for public employees.

https://www.ssa.gov/section218training/documents/Resource_3.pdf

or Page #2 - Key Dates here.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p963.pdf

Pure horseradish. The opposite would have been true. Public employees NOT covered under a state or local government pension would have required to participate and pay into Social Security. How or whether that time of not paying in as a public employee affects your Social Security payments today— that would be getting into the weeds.

That would depend on when that occurred. See the timelines or key dates linked above.

Don't you guys ever get tired of playing word games?  The IRS is the government is the Congress.  You're splitting hairs about unimportant details that have nothing to do with the point I'm making.  The Federal government made this arrangement.  It helps state and local government save money on Social Security.  That's the point.  What a waste of time arguing about which group in the government negotiated it.   You've been doing this so long with Trump, you can't stop.  It makes you look foolish, Picayune.


Regarding your second point I underlined, you're just wrong.  Do you think I was paying Social Security for four years and didn't know it?  It's the opposite of what you said.  While I was NOT on the city's pension for the first four years;  I did NOT have to pay SS. Neither did NYC.  It's only when I joined the pension plan that they began to take out SS for me and contribute their match.  They continued that until I retired from the City ten years later.  Your "facts" and statement are wrong.

[TechTalk]

You're splitting hairs about unimportant details that have nothing to do with the point I'm making.

See diversionary Tactic #1...

When your false or misleading assertions are questioned or corrected, you use various diversionary tactics to [#1] minimize or dismiss their importance

You've been doing this so long with Trump, you can't stop.  It makes you look foolish, Picayune.

See diversionary Tactic #2...

[#2] change the subject

[Alan Klein]

See diversionary Tactic #1...

When your false or misleading assertions are questioned or corrected, you use various diversionary tactics to [#1] minimize or dismiss their importance

See diversionary Tactic #2...

[#2] change the subject

You still haven't acknowledged you were wrong about my not having to pay SS as long as I was [not] getting contributing to a City pension?  Seems to be a diversionary tactic on your part.

[LesPalenik]

That's 8.44% yield not dividend.  Because the stock price is so low, the yield goes higher. But your point is well taken.  My wife owns it,  but she bought it long before the drop.  One hopes Exxon will continue the dividend.  I hardly drive anymore.  I hope they're not counting on me. 

 Investing in stock: I get scared.  So I wind up buying high right before the crash or selling at the bottom because I think it's going lower.  I like GLD now.  But who really knows?  I'd buy Pfizer.  But if I did, a million people would die from their vaccine.

Buying high and selling low is not a good trading technique. Buying high and holding it during downturns and the selling it during the next rally might still turn out profitable. If you invest for several years in a solid company or ETF, the average annual yield should be better than most other investments, especially with the technology companies.

[Alan Klein]

Buying high and selling low is not a good trading technique. Buying high and holding it during downturns and the selling it during the next rally might still turn out profitable. If you invest for several years in a solid company or ETF, the average annual yield should be better than most other investments, especially with technology companies.

If I invested in technology, we'd have a crash like the dot-com tech stocks of the 1990s. 

In any case, there's no reason other than the Fed the market is so high.  Except for certain companies that are doing well because of Covid, the rest of the market stinks.  Another 800k jobs were lost this week in America.  How can an economy do well with that kind of carnage every week for 9 months?  It might be 9 1/2 months.  If it is, I'll be criticized by the truth brigade here that I'm making up statistics.   

[TechTalk]

You still haven't acknowledged you were wrong about my not having to pay SS as long as I was [not] getting contributing to a City pension?  Seems to be a diversionary tactic on your part.

I'll be happy to. Just give me a citation of the law or regulation that states that the reason you didn't pay into Social Security was because you were not contributing to a local government pension. You may find the links I provided to the timeline of changes in Social Security eligibility and requirements for state and local government employees helpful.

Otherwise, I would tend to believe you were mistaken as to the reason why you didn't pay into the Social Security system and why you were exempted from paying into the government insurance of either the city or Social Security for a time. There could very well be a reason for that occurring—there are federal code exclusions in dense and specific statutory language—but none that are remotely close to the reason that you gave.

It was because I wasn't getting a pension during those four years that neither NYC nor I paid into Social Security.

[Alan Klein]

Another diversionary tactic on your part to deny you were mistaken.

[TechTalk]

Just asking for some evidence to support the reason that you asserted which I found dubious. You think that's unreasonable?

Not that you would ask such a thing...

In any case, your facts need clarification

[LesPalenik]

If I invested in technology, we'd have a crash like the dot-com tech stocks of the 1990s. 

In any case, there's no reason other than the Fed the market is so high.  Except for certain companies that are doing well because of Covid, the rest of the market stinks.  Another 800k jobs were lost this week in America.  How can an economy do well with that kind of carnage every week for 9 months?  It might be 9 1/2 months.  If it is, I'll be criticized by the truth brigade here that I'm making up statistics.   

The stock market moves for reasons other than Alan Klein trading stocks. Even Warren Buffet buying millions of shares doesn't effect the selling prices that much. 
You are absolutely right, there will be a carnage for some conventional companies. If you own banks, railways, and brick-and-mortar retailers, get out of them while you can. OTOH, many new companies especially in the disruptive technology sector, will be propelled to record heights.

[TechTalk]

Another diversionary tactic on your part to deny you were mistaken.

Which reminds me how we ended up on this particular merry-go-round of endless back and forth. Your reply to me challenging one of your assertions...

No... It was not "a deal NYC made with the IRS". There was an exemption in the Social Security law for workers that were covered under local or state government pensions. You and New York City were covered under that exemption in the law. No "deal" was made with the IRS.

You're getting in the weeds. The local governments made the deal with congress who runs the IRS rules to avoid having to pay the 6.2% that other employers would have paid.  In any case, your facts need clarification which is getting into the weeds even further.  It was because I wasn't getting a pension during those four years that neither NYC nor I paid into Social Security.  Once I joined the NYC pension plan, we both started to pay it like everyone else.

First you try [Tactic #1] minimize or dismiss your assertion with "You're getting in the weeds". Then you use what I've mentioned previously and I'll call [Tactic #4] follow that with some additional commentary trying to cleanup what you've written—"The local governments made the deal with congress...". Then you say that you need "clarification"; so I link to the published rules and history of the matter. Then you move to [Tactic #2] change the subject by tossing in asserted reasons for why you either did or didn't have to pay into a local pension or Social Security without any supporting evidence.

All in order to get to the goal of [Tactic #3] a circular series of arguments on a specific point in order to distract from all of the other questionable assertions you've made.

You frequently have used the same diversion of saying "You totally missed my point" [or: "You're getting in the weeds."] when attention has been brought to false or misleading comments you've posted. [#4] Then you follow that with some additional commentary trying to cleanup what you've written and/or dismissing what you've written as unimportant to the "point" you were making. I'll let you in on a little secret—people notice when you do this repeatedly.

[TechTalk]

In any case, there's no reason other than the Fed the market is so high.

The are a lot of reasons that markets will retain a relatively high position or a lower one. Consumer confidence is a major and oft sighted reason. If consumers are confident that after the pandemic has subsided sufficiently, there will be pent up demand for goods and services, driving the market up higher than it's been recently; it would help sustain demand in the current market. Of course, there are a variety of other potential factors at play as well.

[jeremyrh]

Are you eating dog food? I could have sworn you said your wife encouraged you to stock up on those special steaks you like before the price went up back in the spring when the meatpacking plants were getting hit hard by the coronavirus. I think you said you liked lamb chops too.

You can remember Alan liking lamb chops? Crikey - that's impressive. I can hardly remember what I like myself :-)

[faberryman]

You can remember Alan liking lamb chops? Crikey - that's impressive. I can hardly remember what I like myself :-)

Sometimes I amaze myself.  I guess it is because Alan telling us he liked lamb chops was one of those Obi Wan Kenobi moments.  You know: "Lamb chops. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long, long time." I'd completely forgotten about lamb chops. And in the same breath he tells us he had just had a heart bypass. Holy mackerel, my doctor won't even let me go over to the meat aisle to look. I guess he is a commie/lib doctor or something.

[Alan Klein]

Just asking for some evidence to support the reason that you asserted which I found dubious. You think that's unreasonable?

Not that you would ask such a thing...

So you think I'm lying about whether I paid SS or not for four years and should prove it? That I'm lying about the reason I didn't have to pay it? Sorry, but I didn't save my pay stubs. You're just going to have to believe me.  Or not. You're just trolling.

Meanwhile, you don't provide your name here, your picture, or any photos.   It took a year at least for you to admit you're from the US.  As far as we know, you don't even own a camera. 

[faberryman]

Meanwhile, you don't provide your name here, your picture, or any photos.   It took a year at least for you to admit you're from the US.  As far as we know, you don't even own a camera.

You are mixing up TechTalk with Frans. Frans is the one who doesn't own a camera. Sensor heat or something. We don't know if you actually own a camera either. You could have taken all those photos you've got on Flickr with a phone. To top it off, we don't know if you are really Alan. It could be an alias. Who knows?

[Alan Klein]

You can remember Alan liking lamb chops? Crikey - that's impressive. I can hardly remember what I like myself :-)

Yes I like lamb chops.  We buy them from New Zealand. Not gamey.  Very tasty. I've bought Uggs slippers too.  Also comes from sheep.  Australian.  They weren't as tasty.