Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[BernardLanguillier]

The way to save for retirement is to stop buying new cameras. Think if you had stuck with film, you wouldn't have needed to buy a new camera since sometime in the 1970s, and if you had invested all the money you spent on new cameras for the past 50 years in the stock market, you'd be a millionaire.

+1

Replace camera by car and the benefits of wise spending are even higher.

I think that one of the reason why people feel urged to upgrade is what I call the fence effect. The effect by which sheeps mostly end up eating the grass close to the fence.

I believe that many a camera user justify their upgrades by focusing their photography, or at least assessing the “level” of their equipment, on things the new camera is doing better (typically AF) than the previous one. And that makes sense... why upgrade otherwise?

Unfortunately these upgraded aspects are most often also something the new camera still isn’t doing perfectly...

So you end up frustrated forever by measuring what the camera can’t do instead of focusing on what it can do.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

You had 35% or more of the elderly population living in poverty. Now it's under 10% due directly to Social Security.

Social Security was NOT "an insurance program for diabed [disabled].  But they turned it into a retirement program". It was the opposite—a retirement insurance program which added disability insurance much later. It was not "turned it into a retirement program". It was always a retirement insurance program.

And yet, 35% or more of the elderly lived in poverty. You can still make real interest on your savings. There are a wide variety of investments that offer a steady reasonable rate of return, but a traditional bank savings account would be a poor way to invest your savings.

How do you then explain the tremendous amount of money that pours into 401(k) plans and IRA contributions every year?

Well, first you have to have money left over every week after expenses.  Apparently, 50% of Americans don't have two nickels to rub together.  They could only come up with $400 in an emergency.

What are those great savings investments for the rest of us?  Especially older folks like me who have to be cautious?  Please advise us.

[TechTalk]

The government perverts everything.

This statement neatly summarizes both your attitude and the basis for the majority of your beliefs regarding government and history. Your understanding of modern economics can be largely summarized in one word—printing. The rest is filled in with assumptions without a great deal of concern over their veracity.

With that scant basis of understanding, you comment on many subjects. When your false or misleading assertions are questioned or corrected, you use various diversionary tactics to minimize or dismiss their importance; change the subject; or double down with some sort of argument on a specific point in order to distract from all of the more questionable assertions you've made. It's a predictable and routine habit. You rely on a set of repetitious ideological talking points—filled in by random bits of imagination or vague impressions formed into assertions—rather than gathering a balanced set of facts on which to base commentary. It may serve to bolster your own faith in the ideology to which you're attached; but often is lacking in reliable foundation or facts.

[BernardLanguillier]

Well, first you have to have money left over every week after expenses.  Apparently, 50% of Americans don't have two nickels to rub together.  They could only come up with $400 in an emergency.

What are those great savings investments for the rest of us?  Especially older folks like me who have to be cautious?  Please advise us.

You’re done Alan, it’s too late for you.

What the focus needs to be is the youth. My view is that equal opportunities for all kids, whatever the wealth of their parents, has to be the focus of a fair and healthy society, which means top level free public education for all.

Just like all Americans equally benefit from the protection resulting from military spendings.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

No... It was not "a deal NYC made with the IRS". There was an exemption in the Social Security law for workers that were covered under local or state government pensions. You and New York City were covered under that exemption in the law. No "deal" was made with the IRS.

You're getting in the weeds. The local governments made the deal with congress who runs the IRS rules to avoid having to pay the 6.2% that other employers would have paid.  In any case, your facts need clarification which is getting into the weeds even further.  It was because I wasn't getting a pension during those four years that neither NYC nor I paid into Social Security.  Once I joined the NYC pension plan, we both started to pay it like everyone else. 

[Alan Klein]

This statement neatly summarizes both your attitude and the basis for the majority of your beliefs regarding government and history. Your understanding of modern economics can be largely summarized in one word—printing. The rest is filled in with assumptions without a great deal of concern over their veracity.

With that scant basis of understanding, you comment on many subjects. When your false or misleading assertions are questioned or corrected, you use various diversionary tactics to minimize or dismiss their importance; change the subject; or double down with some sort of argument on a specific point in order to distract from all of the more questionable assertions you've made. It's a predictable and routine habit. You rely on a set of repetitious ideological talking points—filled in by random bits of imagination or vague impressions formed into assertions—rather than gathering a balanced set of facts on which to base commentary. It may serve to bolster your own faith in the ideology to which you're attached; but often is lacking in reliable foundation or facts.

What a long post attacking me personally rather than attacking any of my specific points.  Why do you always get into the gutter?

[TechTalk]

What are those great savings investments for the rest of us?  Especially older folks like me who have to be cautious?  Please advise us.

I didn't say "great". I said "a steady reasonable rate of return". There's a difference; so quote me accurately or not at all please. Do some research on your own or talk to a financial advisor to guide you. I don't give advice via the internet regarding interest bearing bonds, dividend yielding investments, or any other types of investments for your savings.

[John Camp]

What are those great savings investments for the rest of us?  Especially older folks like me who have to be cautious?  Please advise us.

XOM stock. As of close yesterday, it was producing an annual dividend of 8.44%. And despite all the noise about renewables and electric cars, oil won't simply disappear in the near future. (Electric and hybrid car use was higher in 2013 than now.)

[TechTalk]

What a long post attacking me personally rather than attacking any of my specific points.  Why do you always get into the gutter?

I've written observations and criticism of your commentary, replies, and posting habits—not an attack on you personally. Personally, I'm confident that you're a very nice person that loves his family and friends and is kind to strangers and pets. It's only what you've posted on various subjects and their basis on which I've commented.

* And the post wasn't very long.

[Alan Klein]

You’re done Alan, it’s too late for you.

What the focus needs to be is the youth. My view is that equal opportunities for all kids, whatever the wealth of their parents, has to be the focus of a fair and healthy society, which means top level free public education for all.

Just like all Americans equally benefit from the protection resulting from military spendings.

Cheers,
Bernard

Gee.  I hope it's not too late for me.   In any case, old people need returns on their investments, maybe more than younger people.  That's how they supplement their minimum SS and pensions if they're lucky to even have the latter.

As far as other kids, no one in America is held back.  Anyone can go to college if they want to.  The problem is many go but they aren't really college material.  So they graduate and get jobs flipping hamburgers at McDonald's.  The real-world employers know they were just pushed through and don't hire them for real college jobs.  They would have been better off going to a trade school, or apprencing as an electrician, even working for a wedding photographer.   

[Alan Klein]

I didn't say "great". I said "a steady reasonable rate of return". There's a difference; so quote me accurately or not at all please. Do some research on your own or talk to a financial advisor to guide you. I don't give advice via the internet regarding interest bearing bonds, dividend yielding investments, or any other types of investments for your savings.

So you can't back up your statement.  That's what you accuse me of.

[TechTalk]

So you can't back up your statement.  That's what you accuse me of.

I gave a couple of general examples of the types of investments that are available and sound advice on how to pursue the topic further. You can continue to misquote me and attack my character if you choose; but I will wisely, I believe, refrain from giving specific financial advise to strangers over the internet.

[Alan Klein]

XOM stock. As of close yesterday, it was producing an annual dividend of 8.44%. And despite all the noise about renewables and electric cars, oil won't simply disappear in the near future. (Electric and hybrid car use was higher in 2013 than now.)

That's 8.44% yield not dividend.  Because the stock price is so low, the yield goes higher. But your point is well taken.  My wife owns it,  but she bought it long before the drop.  One hopes Exxon will continue the dividend.  I hardly drive anymore.  I hope they're not counting on me. 

 Investing in stock: I get scared.  So I wind up buying high right before the crash or selling at the bottom because I think it's going lower.  I like GLD now.  But who really knows?  I'd buy Pfizer.  But if I did, a million people would die from their vaccine. 

[Alan Klein]

I gave a couple of general examples of the types of investments that are available and sound advice on how to pursue the topic further. You can continue to misquote me and attack my character if you choose; but I will wisely, I believe, refrain from giving specific financial advise to strangers over the internet.

No one's asking you for financial advice.  You said that there are instruments that provide higher interest rates than banks?  What are they? 

[TechTalk]

No one's asking you for financial advice.  You said that there are instruments that provide higher interest rates than banks?  What are they?

How much hand holding do you require in reading and comprehension?

I didn't say "great". I said "a steady reasonable rate of return". There's a difference; so quote me accurately or not at all please. Do some research on your own or talk to a financial advisor to guide you. I don't give advice via the internet regarding interest bearing bonds, dividend yielding investments, or any other types of investments for your savings.

[Alan Klein]

How much hand holding do you require in reading and comprehension?

You still didn't answer a simple question.  Maybe like the rest of us who already know, there is no simple answer.  Central banks around the world have made it impossible to find a simple instrument that's relatively safe and provides a reasonable interest on your investment.  Sure there are stocks, and real estate and other riskier investments.  But for the average person especially a retiree, you really can't find anything safe to invest in that has an interest rate much higher than "0".   The government has screwed that up. 

[Peter McLennan]

You're getting in the weeds...  In any case, your facts need clarification which is getting into the weeds even further.

Alan, "getting in the weeds" means paying attention to actual facts, details. Something "the right" seems consistently reluctant to do.

Ever hear the term "the devil is in the details" ? It's not admissible to deflect errors in judgement by dismissive tactics like stating "You're getting in the weeds" 

"The weeds" is where the truth often is.

This is similar to your other technique that uses dismissal of facts as "gotcha" moments.

[faberryman]

The Senate voted to override Trump’s veto of the defense appropriation bill by a margin of 81-13. That’s quite a few Republicans that Trump is unhappy with.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/01/politics/senate-votes-to-override-trump-veto-ndaa/index.html

[faberryman]

You still didn't answer a simple question.  Maybe like the rest of us who already know, there is no simple answer.  Central banks around the world have made it impossible to find a simple instrument that's relatively safe and provides a reasonable interest on your investment.  Sure there are stocks, and real estate and other riskier investments.  But for the average person especially a retiree, you really can't find anything safe to invest in that has an interest rate much higher than "0".   The government has screwed that up.

Kind of depends on what you mean by “relatively safe” and “reasonable rate of return”.

[TechTalk]

You still didn't answer a simple question.  Maybe like the rest of us who already know, there is no simple answer.

Here is the repetition of your routine. Diversionary Tactic #2) Change the subject: I never said investing was simple. I said: "Do some research on your own or talk to a financial advisor to guide you."

Central banks around the world have made it impossible to find a simple instrument that's relatively safe and provides a reasonable interest on your investment.

Safety is relative and no one has said it isn't. Diversionary Tactic #2) Change the subject: I didn't mention safety or risk. I said: "You can still make real interest on your savings. There are a wide variety of investments that offer a steady reasonable rate of return, but a traditional bank savings account would be a poor way to invest your savings."

Sure there are stocks, and real estate and other riskier investments.  But for the average person especially a retiree, you really can't find anything safe to invest in that has an interest rate much higher than "0".

There are investments that are low risk, minimal risk, high risk, and everything in between. More of the Diversionary Tactic #2) Change the subject and add Diversionary Tactic #3) endless argument on a specific point in order to distract from all of the more questionable assertions you've made. I mentioned: "interest bearing bonds, dividend yielding investments" as general examples among "other types of investments" that can "offer a steady reasonable rate of return". You insert changes in subject, like simplicity and safety, and then wish to argue it repetitiously into the ground; filling the board with back and forth; boring everyone; in order to distract and to wear out someone that has disagreed with you on something else. It's exhausting for everyone except yourself it appears.

When your false or misleading assertions are questioned or corrected, you use various diversionary tactics to [#1] minimize or dismiss their importance; [#2] change the subject; or [#3] double down with some sort of argument on a specific point in order to distract from all of the more questionable assertions you've made. It's a predictable and routine habit.