Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Not sure what you're referring to - if it's about "Johnson" ignoring warnings, then my practical solution is to listen to the scientific advice and learn from previous mistakes when he acted too late and a lot of people died.People starving or not is your political choice - there's no reason for people to starve in the world's richestr country, but I don't have a say in the matter since some incident in Boston a while ago.

It's not a matter of starving only.  If you saved all your life to start a business, let's say a little restaurant or gym or photo business, and now you're out of business, you're entire life savings are gone, what do you do next year?  What happens to your nice house?  Your cars? Your children's college education you were paying for?  Sure, you might eat.  But you're losing everything else.  Would you want to lose these other things?  The government isn't going to pay for them. 

[Alan Klein]

Well that's refreshing except that you don't always need to isolate.

> Keep your distance, where a mask* in proximity to others and where at all possible stay outside (in a breeze - that disperses the aerosols faster than you can say 'adios Trump').
> Also wash your hands (assuming you're not wearing rubber gloves).
> Don't touch your face without a 20 second hand wash first.
> If someone sneezes close to you (even further away than 2 metres) - hold your breath and R-U-N.

Congratulations, you've just espoused what Fauci and the CDC have been advocating pretty much since the beginning - and I hope you and your wife get the vaccine real soon.

* the mask is as much to protect others as it is to protect yourself. it's a topic under review but on the basis that it does no harm and can potentially do a lot of good - act now, talk later !

You left out the part of my post that said: "Others have to make their own choices based on their personal circumstances."

[Manoli]

You left out the part of my post that said: "Others have to make their own choices based on their personal circumstances."

I ignored it - (decided to just focus on the positive).

[chez]

My point is that while you're making your paycheck, there are others who aren't and can't feed their families or won't be able to if they lose their businesses or jobs.    How do you intend to feed these people forever.  750 billion Euros last only so long.  Then what?

If there is a need, businesses will once again arise. Tell me Alan...if your favourite pizza joint was open, would you go today and have a pizza and beer along with another 50 people, no one wearing any masks and tables next to one another?

How about attending a led Zeppelin concert squished in like sardines? Or would you go shopping today for xmas presents in a crowded store?

See...even if things are open...which they were here all summer, people still did not go in fear of getting Covid. Many businesses still struggled even though they were allowed to be open.

Now just imagine how things would be today if no shutdowns took place, no mask wearing, no distancing...just business as usual. Do you really think the economy would be better off when customers are scared shitless from the raging virus?

[faberryman]

You're one of the lucky ones who can still earn a living and buy food and pay rent. There are many people who can't.  People who own small businesses are particularly hurt.  They could lose everything they worked for and saved to start their little business.  How will they earn a living if their businesses fail, a scenario for thousands of businesses and millions of people?  We can't forget about those people either.  Then there are those who are employed by these businesses.  What jobs will be available after the businesses they work for shut for good?  Many of these people are minorities or just plain people who have little, to begin with. Who pays the real estate owners the rent on their stores so they can pay their real estate taxes and their mortgages? So now their saving and incomes go down the drain as well.  All this drop in business reduces income the government makes from taxes to pay to support people who need help.  Everyone is hurt.

Governments around the world are faced with trying to balance safety and economics.  Why do liberals always use guilt as an argument rather than reason and honest concern for their fellow man?

What businesses are closed around where you live? Everything is open around here and has been since June. No question some people lost their jobs and haven't found new ones yet. Maybe Congress will extend federal unemployment benefits before they go home for Christmas.

[Craig Lamson]

Was the 2016 election rigged?

How about 2012?

Is there any combination of recount/sampling/survey/testimony that will ever convince you that the election was fair if your guy lost? Where's the end-point here? Other than personally counting each and every ballot yourself, would you believe anyone's evidence?

How likely is it that the election had been rigged but that no evidence has been shown to anyone's satisfaction yet? Is that plausible? That would have to be one hell of a perfect crime.

Perhaps they were.  No one really bothered to check.  We don't get to see the so called evidecne and we dont get to see how the sausage is made either , despite  the so called election monitors who, this year in some places, were so far away they had to try and binoculars to see what was happening.  We have a bunch of statements of people actually inside the counting rooms who report wrong doing and it goes unused. Now what?

When the State controls the evidence, you are forced to trust the State.  States cheat too. Local Officals cheat too.

I accept the election.  What choice do I have? 

[Alan Klein]

I ignored it - (decided to just focus on the positive).

But that part is positive as well.  After all, having the freedom to attend to your own business and life's needs is what America's about.  Individual choice exemplifies our country's character.  Or at least it used too.  Now, I'm not too sure anymore.  We're becoming too dependent on the government who will fail us in the end, in any case. 

[faberryman]

No one's "letting it rip". Each of the fifty governors in the USA is trying to find a balance between shutting things down totally and "letting it rip". There are no simple solutions.  It's really on the horns of a dilemma.

You might want to look up the definition of "dilemma".

[faberryman]

You're the one accusing those in authority who are making decisions the best they can as being immoral.  Yet, you offer no practical solutions.  You sit in your armchair collecting your salary telling others they should starve and those trying to help those people as being spiritually bankrupt.  Somehow, you're smarter than 50 governors.

After you look up the defintion of "dilemma", you might want to page over and look up the definition of "hypocrisy".

[Alan Klein]

If there is a need, businesses will once again arise. Tell me Alan...if your favourite pizza joint was open, would you go today and have a pizza and beer along with another 50 people, no one wearing any masks and tables next to one another?

How about attending a led Zeppelin concert squished in like sardines? Or would you go shopping today for xmas presents in a crowded store?

See...even if things are open...which they were here all summer, people still did not go in fear of getting Covid. Many businesses still struggled even though they were allowed to be open.

Now just imagine how things would be today if no shutdowns took place, no mask wearing, no distancing...just business as usual. Do you really think the economy would be better off when customers are scared shitless from the raging virus?

Let individuals decide what they want to do.  We're smarter than the government.  We don't need them to control us.  I'm not stupid.  Neither are you.  Do you need Biden to tell you to wear a mask? I didn't listen to Trump. Let people be adults and make their own decisions.

[digitaldog]

Why not just open up all the machines and check all the signatures and put this to bed then.  I'm all for it.

Thankfully, what you're all up for matters so little and the election is over, Joe's our next president, Trump's going away.

Nope, I don't care.

Hypocrisy illustrated in writing once again. Thanks for more proof. 
How's that large boat (as I provided), shot and lit in your studio example coming?
Hypocrisy illustrated in writing coming again.

[digitaldog]

And yet we are being told our computerized voting systems are all safe and secure.

And yet actual evidence they are safe and secure. By Trump's own agency.
https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election

“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result.

“When states have close elections, many will recount ballots. All of the states with close results in the 2020 presidential race have paper records of each vote, allowing the ability to go back and count each ballot if necessary. This is an added benefit for security and resilience. This process allows for the identification and correction of any mistakes or errors. There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.

“Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020.

“While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.”

[Craig Lamson]

Thankfully, what you're all up for matters so little and the election is over, Joe's our next president, Trump's going away. Hypocrisy illustrated in writing once again. Thanks for more proof. 
How's that large boat (as I provided), shot and lit in your studio example coming?
Hypocrisy illustrated in writing coming again.

Yea I've said coughing Joe is our next President, please try to stay up to speed, if thats possible for you.

Hypocricy?  Why I'm just trying to be like the good liberals.  So whats the problem?

I see you can't provide any examples of ANYTHING large you have lit and shot in a studio so you want to continue to change the subject.  Again what's new for you?

[digitaldog]

We're smarter than the government. 

Not all, that's clear after all these pages where one speaks for others.
We're smarter than the government that keeps sending you a check every month? 

[Craig Lamson]

And yet actual evidence they are safe and secure. By Trump's own agency.
https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election

“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result.

“When states have close elections, many will recount ballots. All of the states with close results in the 2020 presidential race have paper records of each vote, allowing the ability to go back and count each ballot if necessary. This is an added benefit for security and resilience. This process allows for the identification and correction of any mistakes or errors. There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.

“Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020.

“While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.”

Show us the proof what they say is correct.  You can do that, right? 

[faberryman]

But that part is positive as well.  After all, having the freedom to attend to your own business and life's needs is what America's about.  Individual choice exemplifies our country's character.  Or at least it used too.  Now, I'm not too sure anymore.  We're becoming too dependent on the government who will fail us in the end, in any case.

Who is "we"? Most of us around here know you are, but maybe the rest of us not so much.

[digitaldog]

Hypocricy? 

Yup, you like Trump, only care when it meets your agenda and need to hypocritically criticize others, but not when it's equally applied to your allies. After all, you wrote:

You took someones else photo, renamed it and posted it without giving the author credit.

Then when other examples of the same were shown, you don't care.
As I said, as others can see but you can't: Hypocrisy illustrated in writing once again. Thanks for more proof.

[Manoli]

Individual choice exemplifies our country's character.  Or at least it used too. 

Let individuals decide what they want to do.  We don't need them to control us.  [...] let people be adults and make their own decisions.

Not in a public health emergency, let alone a world-wide epidemic.

[digitaldog]

Show us the proof what they say is correct.  You can do that, right?

Show us proof, that this agency run under Trump is incorrect. You can't do that right? No, you cannot.
I've never flown above the planet I live on. I believe based on what I've been shown by science and data, photo's and text from those in the know, down here, it isn't flat like your planet.
You need to adjust your tin foil hat a bit sir. You have provided ZERO proof of voter fraud, wide spread or otherwise. There actually is proof of a Trump voter fraudulently voting (under his son's name) and he was caught so that fraudulent never applied.
You have ZERO proof there's anything wrong with the voting system, electronic or otherwise, there's a US agency that states this was the most secure election in history. That doesn't fit your flat earth conspiracy theories so you dismiss it. And ask us (me) to prove this entire agency is correct.   
 
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts". -Albert Einstein
But more to your ideas:
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

[digitaldog]

I'm not stupid. 

"I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!" -Stuart Smalley

Do you need Biden to tell you to wear a mask? I didn't listen to Trump.

So he thinks everyone didn't too. "We" know that's untrue.